U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | RE: brush vs tray size for gum

RE: brush vs tray size for gum


The largest print I've sized is 20x24. But, if I was going to do 22x30, I
would make a 22" glass coating rod and apply the sizing with the rod, then
use a brush to fix any areas that were either too thin or too thick. This
makes the process go very quickly so the gelatin doesn't have the chance to
harden. I would also use formaledehyde rather than glyoxal to prevent
yellowing.  When using a glass rod, first place a towel on the table
underneath the paper. This will greatly help keep the rod in good contact
with the paper, especially for larger prints. I would guess about 30 ml of
3% gelatin with 18 drops of hardener would do it.


Original Message:
From: Carmen Lizardo carmenlizardo@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:51:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: kerik@kerik.com, alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: RE: brush vs tray size for gum

Dear Chris and Kerik, 
I would love to brush size my paper, specially because
use a full sheet of 22x30 inches when I print, and you
could only imaging how long that takes and how much
gelatin I need, but I can't seem to be able to get an
even coat, and mixing glyoxal and gelatin together is
out because I have to able to rise it off the gelatin
to prevent yellow stains.  Of course when I used Glut,
it was from black magic and that did not work. I also
felt it in ky eyes and throat and i not even the
sensitive type.  I am willing to try again, maybe with
a different glut?? Any pointers that you can give me
with the brushing??  I was thinking that it had to do
with the size of my paper. The gelatin gets hard
before I have time to cover the whole 22x30 sheet.
Thank you kindly, 

--- "kerik@kerik.com" <kerik@kerik.com> wrote:

> Chris,
> I agree that tray sizing is a lot of mess and hassle
> for no substantial
> benefit. Plus, why do the sizing in 2 steps when it
> can be done in one? I
> use either a glass rod (puddle pusher) and/or a
> brush.  I add the hardener
> (formaldehyde in my case) to the sizing just before
> sizing each print.
> Three drops of formaldehyde and 5 ml of 3% sizing
> easily does an 8x10 to
> 11x14 print.  In these tiny amounts, exposure to
> formaldehyde (or whatever
> hardener one uses) is minimal. I get very even
> sizing this way. A little
> bit of curl to the paper, but nothing that causes
> any problems.
> I tried B.M. glut and did not like the results. It
> resulted in slower
> development and considerably more staining than with
> formaldehyde.
> As for sizing with unhardened gelatin, that sounds
> like another in a long
> line of T King's erroneous hyperboles.
> Speaking of gum, I taught a gumover workshop in
> Philladelphia this past
> weekend for www.projectbasho.org. On sunday it was
> 80 degrees F and 82%
> humidity in the darkroom. That's the first time I've
> printed gum in
> sauna-like conditions and it created some hassles
> with very slow
> development and the need to intervene with some
> brute force measures
> (brushes, fingernails, sandpaper). Anybody have
> similar problems printing
> gum in high humidity?  The conditions seemed to
> cause problems with the
> sizing in particular because development was much
> closer to normal when I
> did a single coat of gum on unsized paper right out
> of the plastic bag. I'm
> speculating that the humidity either prevented the
> gelatin from hardening
> completely or it allowed the gum solution to soak
> into the sizing a bit
> rather than sitting on top. Despite the problems, I
> believe a good time was
> had by all. Although I always want things to go
> smoothly during the
> workshops, it's good for the students to learn how
> to deal with problems
> when they come up.
> Kerik
> www.kerik.com
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Christina Z. Anderson zphoto@montana.net
> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:08:22 -0600
> To: alt-photo-process-L@usask.ca
> Subject: brush vs tray size for gum
> Hi All,
> This weekend was time for sizing paper, and since I
> was doing small sizes 
> (11x14's) I decided to tray size instead of brush
> size to see if it had any 
> added benefits to brush sizing.
> I was sizing with gelatin glutaraldehyde as usual. 
> I did use a piece of it 
> right away, same day, and had no problem with the
> sizing not being hardened 
> and producing "magenta squares" as did Carmen. 
> However, I was using glut 
> that I bought from a medical supply house (now
> available at the 
> Photographer's Formulary) and not Black Magic.  The
> gelatin on my paper was 
> not slimy in any way so I know it was hardened. I am
> still not sure why 
> Carmen got that problem, and am wondering about the
> suitability of Black 
> Magic, therefore, with its added sulfite. It sounds
> like the same result I 
> had when I tried Terry King's advice to use
> unhardened gelatin and got
> black 
> squares.
> With tray sizing and cautions with glut, I gelatin
> sized the paper first, 
> and then the next day I soaked the sized paper
> OUTSIDE in a tray of 50ml 
> glut to a gallon of water.  That worked well, but I
> would only tray size if 
> the hardening part could be done outside to minimize
> fumes produced by the 
> surface area of a whole tray of hardener, whatever
> type--glut, gly, 
> formaldehyde. (When I brush size I keep the solution
> capped inside a
> thermos 
> and pour out a cup at once.) The gelatin paper went
> in "slimy" feeling, and 
> went out unslimy.
> The paper works fine but I learned a couple things: 
> paper tray sized with 
> gelatin will sink to the bottom, not float as does
> brush sized paper
> (except 
> Arches) so if I am going to leave the paper soaking
> for a while it needs to 
> be face up. I learned that the hard way. Back to
> floaters and sinkers, Mark.
> The paper does curl less than brush sized, but it
> doesn't seem worth the 
> added trouble of trays. This is the only benefit I
> can see.  Oh, maybe more 
> evenness of sizing?  I don't know this one
> yet...will have to print all 
> papers.
> My husband set up an ingenious "clothesline" for
> me--a rung ladder on its 
> side has plenty of hanger-ready rungs.
> I learned another thing the hard way:  I printed 4
> prints on the unsized
> but 
> shrunk paper with a cyanotype layer, put the paper
> through the hot gelatin 
> sizing process and didn't THINK that the
> 140-whatever degree gelatin would 
> shrink the paper even more and make registration a
> B---H but you bet it 
> did--warped and shrunk. Luckily only 4 prints
> ruined. DUH. Or, as Clay
> says, 
> DOH.
> The bottom line is that brush sizing is sooo much
> easier and works well and 
> uses way less gelatin--I sized 24 11x14s with a a
> liter of 3%, and normally 
> I can do that many 16x20s with the same. I don't
> think even with small
> sizes 
> I would tray size...
> That's all my truly exciting weekend experience!
> Chris
> CZAphotography.com
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