Re: brush vs tray size for gum
WHOOPS I mean Matthew...my bad. Chris ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: Katharine Thayer <kthayer@pacifier.com> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: Re: brush vs tray size for gum Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:44:50 -0700 >Matthew, I'm curious whether you actually tried printing >gum on the yellowed paper. The reason I ask is that, as >I mentioned the other day, while Arches bright white >does turn ivory-colored for me after application of >glyoxal (although FAEW didn't) I've found that if I print >gum on the ivoried paper, it reverts to snow white in the >development water, and that''s why I don't bother with a >separate rinse at the time of sizing. >Katharine > > > >On Sep 26, 2006, at 1:22 PM, Matthew Magruder wrote: > >> Carmen >> Not sure if its been mentioned as of yet, if so, >> disregard. I learned from Clay harmon (by way of he and >> Kerik) that the glyoxal wont yellow as long as you do a >> gum layer within a few days of sizing. >> I also learned this the hard way through my own >> experiences. Sized 6 (7x17) prints, managed to get the >> first gum layers on 5 of them and forgot about the 6th. >> after a few days it yellowed horribly and the other 5 >> were just fine. So I keep that one for an example of >>what not to do when people ask. >> hope that helps and isnt incredibly redundant. >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 26, 2006, at 2:51 PM, Carmen Lizardo wrote: >> >> >>> Dear Chris and Kerik, >>> I would love to brush size my paper, specially because >>> use a full sheet of 22x30 inches when I print, and you >>> could only imaging how long that takes and how much >>> gelatin I need, but I can't seem to be able to get an >>> even coat, and mixing glyoxal and gelatin together is >>> out because I have to able to rise it off the gelatin >>> to prevent yellow stains. Of course when I used Glut, >>> it was from black magic and that did not work. I also >>> felt it in ky eyes and throat and i not even the >>> sensitive type. I am willing to try again, maybe with >>> a different glut?? Any pointers that you can give me >>> with the brushing?? I was thinking that it had to do >>> with the size of my paper. The gelatin gets hard >>> before I have time to cover the whole 22x30 sheet. >>> Thank you kindly, >>> Carmen >>> >>> --- "kerik@kerik.com" <kerik@kerik.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Chris, >>>> >>>> I agree that tray sizing is a lot of mess and hassle >>>> for no substantial >>>> benefit. Plus, why do the sizing in 2 steps when it >>>> can be done in one? I >>>> use either a glass rod (puddle pusher) and/or a >>>> brush. I add the hardener >>>> (formaldehyde in my case) to the sizing just before >>>> sizing each print. >>>> Three drops of formaldehyde and 5 ml of 3% sizing >>>> easily does an 8x10 to >>>> 11x14 print. In these tiny amounts, exposure to >>>> formaldehyde (or whatever >>>> hardener one uses) is minimal. I get very even >>>> sizing this way. A little >>>> bit of curl to the paper, but nothing that causes >>>> any problems. >>>> >>>> I tried B.M. glut and did not like the results. It >>>> resulted in slower >>>> development and considerably more staining than with >>>> formaldehyde. >>>> >>>> As for sizing with unhardened gelatin, that sounds >>>> like another in a long >>>> line of T King's erroneous hyperboles. >>>> >>>> Speaking of gum, I taught a gumover workshop in >>>> Philladelphia this past >>>> weekend for www.projectbasho.org. On sunday it was >>>> 80 degrees F and 82% >>>> humidity in the darkroom. That's the first time I've >>>> printed gum in >>>> sauna-like conditions and it created some hassles >>>> with very slow >>>> development and the need to intervene with some >>>> brute force measures >>>> (brushes, fingernails, sandpaper). Anybody have >>>> similar problems printing >>>> gum in high humidity? The conditions seemed to >>>> cause problems with the >>>> sizing in particular because development was much >>>> closer to normal when I >>>> did a single coat of gum on unsized paper right out >>>> of the plastic bag. I'm >>>> speculating that the humidity either prevented the >>>> gelatin from hardening >>>> completely or it allowed the gum solution to soak >>>> into the sizing a bit >>>> rather than sitting on top. Despite the problems, I >>>> believe a good time was >>>> had by all. Although I always want things to go >>>> smoothly during the >>>> workshops, it's good for the students to learn how >>>> to deal with problems >>>> when they come up. >>>> >>>> Kerik >>>> www.kerik.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Original Message: >>>> ----------------- >>>> From: Christina Z. Anderson zphoto@montana.net >>>> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:08:22 -0600 >>>> To: alt-photo-process-L@usask.ca >>>> Subject: brush vs tray size for gum >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> This weekend was time for sizing paper, and since I >>>> was doing small sizes >>>> (11x14's) I decided to tray size instead of brush >>>> size to see if it had any >>>> added benefits to brush sizing. >>>> >>>> I was sizing with gelatin glutaraldehyde as usual. >>>> I did use a piece of it >>>> right away, same day, and had no problem with the >>>> sizing not being hardened >>>> and producing "magenta squares" as did Carmen. >>>> However, I was using glut >>>> that I bought from a medical supply house (now >>>> available at the >>>> Photographer's Formulary) and not Black Magic. The >>>> gelatin on my paper was >>>> not slimy in any way so I know it was hardened. I am >>>> still not sure why >>>> Carmen got that problem, and am wondering about the >>>> suitability of Black >>>> Magic, therefore, with its added sulfite. It sounds >>>> like the same result I >>>> had when I tried Terry King's advice to use >>>> unhardened gelatin and got >>>> black >>>> squares. >>>> >>>> With tray sizing and cautions with glut, I gelatin >>>> sized the paper first, >>>> and then the next day I soaked the sized paper >>>> OUTSIDE in a tray of 50ml >>>> glut to a gallon of water. That worked well, but I >>>> would only tray size if >>>> the hardening part could be done outside to minimize >>>> fumes produced by the >>>> surface area of a whole tray of hardener, whatever >>>> type--glut, gly, >>>> formaldehyde. (When I brush size I keep the solution >>>> capped inside a >>>> thermos >>>> and pour out a cup at once.) The gelatin paper went >>>> in "slimy" feeling, and >>>> went out unslimy. >>>> >>>> The paper works fine but I learned a couple things: >>>> paper tray sized with >>>> gelatin will sink to the bottom, not float as does >>>> brush sized paper >>>> (except >>>> Arches) so if I am going to leave the paper soaking >>>> for a while it needs to >>>> be face up. I learned that the hard way. Back to >>>> floaters and sinkers, Mark. >>>> >>>> The paper does curl less than brush sized, but it >>>> doesn't seem worth the >>>> added trouble of trays. This is the only benefit I >>>> can see. Oh, maybe more >>>> evenness of sizing? I don't know this one >>>> yet...will have to print all >>>> papers. >>>> >>>> My husband set up an ingenious "clothesline" for >>>> me--a rung ladder on its >>>> side has plenty of hanger-ready rungs. >>>> >>>> I learned another thing the hard way: I printed 4 >>>> prints on the unsized >>>> but >>>> shrunk paper with a cyanotype layer, put the paper >>>> through the hot gelatin >>>> sizing process and didn't THINK that the >>>> 140-whatever degree gelatin would >>>> shrink the paper even more and make registration a >>>> B---H but you bet it >>>> did--warped and shrunk. Luckily only 4 prints >>>> ruined. DUH. Or, as Clay >>>> says, >>>> DOH. >>>> >>>> The bottom line is that brush sizing is sooo much >>>> easier and works well and >>>> uses way less gelatin--I sized 24 11x14s with a a >>>> liter of 3%, and normally >>>> I can do that many 16x20s with the same. I don't >>>> think even with small >>>> sizes >>>> I would tray size... >>>> >>>> That's all my truly exciting weekend experience! >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> CZAphotography.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >----------------------------------------------------------- >>>--------- >>>> mail2web - Check your email from the web at >>>> http://mail2web.com/ . >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection >>> around http://mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> > |