U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: clearing dichromate stain

Re: clearing dichromate stain



Could someone send me a two sentence summary? hehehehe


Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

Precision Digital Negatives - The System
PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

In a message dated 1/9/07 3:50:19 PM, kthayer@pacifier.com writes:


On Jan 8, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Ender100@aol.com wrote:

> I would think a review of the historical literature would be quite 
> interesting regardless of the fact that there might be inaccurate  
> statements.  Documentation of the changes in "accepted practice" 
> over the years would be quite valuable, along with what caused 
> those changes, especially if it included an evaluation of what 
> turned out to be fact or myth.  Chris should be applauded for 
> taking on such a project!

Yes, it's a very good thing to try to separate fact from myth; that's 
been my sole project in the now nearly nine years I've been 
contributing to this list.   And I would applaud Chris's effort, if I 
could see that  there actually were a critical evaluation based on 
science and fact which clearly separates myth from fact.  However, 
this doesn't seem to be the case; in this case misinformation from 
the past is continuing to be propagated on into the next century 
rather than weighed and corrected.  Just for one rather trivial 
example, the statement that's attributed to Sil Horowitz,  that in 
dichromate stain, the dichromate is "fully oxidized"  and therefore 
inert.  If Sil Horowitz said that, he's an idiot, but I'm completely 
comfortable saying that,  because I don't think he is an idiot,  I 
think it's much more reasonable to assume he was misquoted.  The only 
way the first part could make sense is if he meant the yellow stain 
where the unreduced dichromate is trapped in the paper or the size, 
but in that case the second part wouldn't make sense;  such a stain 
couldn't be considered  inert.    Anyone with any knowledge of the 
chemistry of the process would know that it's a nonsense statement as 
given, and would either check with Horowitz to find out what he 
really said, or at least drop the secondhand citation from the 
listing, since it's obviously a misstatement of fact. In any case, a 
he-said citation isn't acceptable from a scholarly standpoint;  I 
never would have accepted such a citation in papers written for my 
classes.  One should either get the information from the original 
source, or leave it out entirely, because when the original source is 
interpreted by a second source, there's no assurance that the second 
source isn't misinterpreting the information, as may have happened in 
this case.

And of course the assertion most recently under discussion, that 
because potassium metabisulfite is more soluble, it washes out of 
paper faster than potassium or sodium bisulfite, is another example 
of misinformation that's simply repeated from the historical record 
as fact.

I don't even want to do this, but I feel a responsibility when 
misstatements are made about the gum process, to correct those 
misstatements.  I'm not picking on anyone particularly; I will 
challenge misstatements wherever they come from, and would hope for a 
collegial discussion to resolve the issue.  That's the kind of 
atmosphere I come from, where it's considered rude not to correct a 
colleague when they're saying something wrong.  I would certainly 
hope to be corrected if I make misstatements, and have been corrected 
here, and am grateful for the correction.  This is how we grow as a 
group, this is how the knowledge of our process advances.
Katharine