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Re: preservation of negatives/slides/prints
 
 
Hi Ryuji,
 
Another factor you don't mention that I'm having to recognize with all 
gelatin materials here is mould growth. It's especially bad on some 
trade processed slides, but I also get it on prints and negatives. 
Humidity is probably the vital factor for this, and I live in a poor 
area in this respect.
 
So, despite the problems with digital storage, I think it is vital to 
get material worth keeping into digital form as soon as possible. 
Already many of my own images I think important are only printable from 
the digital files and many of the vintage prints show signs of degradation.
 
Regards,
 
Peter
 
Peter Marshall 
petermarshall@cix.co.uk     +44 (0)1784 456474 
_________________________________________________________________ 
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/ 
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/ 
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/ 
and elsewhere......
 
Ryuji Suzuki wrote:
 Don't have time to get into details, but the way the film was made,including the formula for the "film dope" and the way it was filmed has
 some influence on the stability of the film as well. Acetic acid is a
 relatively weak acid compared to the degradation product of common
 plasticizer, triphenyl phosphate (degraded into diphenyl phosphate).
 Plasticizer is present at about 1:10 in acetate film and it's a lot. So
 the name is "vinegar syndrome" but the reality is probably more
 complicated.
 
 Because these things are rather easily studied by accelerated aging
 tests, the formulation has improved since 1980s. It is likely true that
 modern triacetate film from Fujifilm and Kodak may be more durable, but
 I don't think it is correct to apply findings from modern material to
 early cellulose films. Old collections deserve more close attention in
 these areas.
 
 Another thing is that it is very misleading to describe one variable as
 "the most important factor" etc. here. For b&w silver image, humidity is
 an major factor, but even at 30-40% RH, if there is degrading paper or
 adhesive in the container, the image may degrade much faster. One must
 realize there are several ways to ruin an image just as easily and the
 image gets ruined from the weakest mode. It is often the case that the
 factors must be prioritized to fit in limited budget, etc., and humidity
 is one key factor that should be given a high priority, but a bit of
 peroxide from degrading paper or tape can do a big damage as well. It's
 not an "or" but rather an "and."
 
 In case of silver image, combination of proper sulfiding toner treatment
 can greatly reduce the impact of several variables and it is highly
 recommended for anything important.
 
 
 
 On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:05:36 -0400, "Gawain Weaver"
 <gawain.weaver@gmail.com> said:
 
 
 Hi Richard-- 
1) That's a good question. IPI did find that "paper envelopes offers no
 advantage over plastic to control vinegar syndrome" (Environment and
 Enclosures in Film Preservation, Bigourdan and Reilly, 1997).
 
 The question here is two-fold. First, does the plastic sleeve prevent the
 acidic degradation products from diffusing away from the film? And
 second,
 if it does, does it matter? In other words, does the buildup of acid have
 any effect on further degradation?
 
 In theory, since acetate base deterioration has been shown to be
 acid-catalyzed and auto-catalytic, the buildup of acidic degradation
 products will be harmful. However, in real life practice it is not the
 determining factor in the life expectancy of film.
 
 
 My SPECULATION on it goes something like this: There is no significantly
 harmful acid-trapping effect from plastic sleeves on acetate film (di or
 tri, they're both unstable) that is still in good condition and does not
 have increased acidity levels. At this stage acid production is slow
 enough
 that acid diffusion away from the film is not a significant bottleneck.
 
 Degraded film with high acidity levels will undergo fairly rapid
 acid-catalyzed hydrolysis regardless of whether the plastic sleeve
 prevents
 the acid from diffusing away from the film or not. IPI did find that
 there
 was a VERY SMALL advantage to be gained by the use of paper envelopes,
 but
 it is an insignificant factor if one is concerned with long-term
 preservation.
 In the end, deteriorating film needs a cold and dry environment, ideally
 very cold and moderately dry (say 0F, 25%RH) to essentially arrest
 degradation. Short of such cold storage, any cooler storage with
 moderately
 low RH will be a vast improvement over room temperature. Attempts to
 control
 degradation by varying the type of enclosure have proven ineffective.
 
 2) There is no specific risk to scanning, apart from the usual concerns
 over
 care and handling. I was simply warning against the casual use of
 digitization for preservation purposes.
 
 3) storage materials to avoid-- just the usual-- PVC, cellulose nitrate
 or
 acetate (that includes Kodak's triacetate sleeves), glassine, and poor
 quality paper are generally to be avoided. Of course, the real
 "acid-test"
 in this case is the Photographic Activity Test, and many enclosures have
 passed the PAT and are advertised as having done so. As Ryuji noted,
 untoned
 silver gelatin prints are susceptible to damage by many types of inferior
 enclosures and other materials like adhesives. Certainly these things
 should
 be taken into account, and good quality enclosures should be used.
 The problem however, is that enclosures are a quick and easy fix, and
 there
 is a tendency to think that once everything is in a good enclosure that
 the
 collection is safe, and this couldn't be farther from the truth. Silver,
 nitrate and acetate bases, and color dyes will degrade at room
 temperature
 and moderate RH and or in the presence of common pollutants like sulfur
 dioxide, nitrogen oxides, and peroxides. They don't need poor quality
 enclosures to degrade. And basements and attics with their extremes of
 temperature and humidity will only make matters worse. I trust that Light
 Impressions will convince people to use good quality enclosures, but
 unfortunately that's not the most important factor by a long shot.
 
 Gawain
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Richard Knoppow [mailto:dickburk@ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:33 AM
 
 
 Lots of snipping...
 I have a couple of questions. 
1, I generally keep negatives in so called archival envelopes or sleeves,
 is
 there a problem with these when used for acetate film due to the surfaces
 of
 the film being pretty much sealed even though the ends are open?
 
 2, By risk of digitizing for archival purposes do you mean that the
 archival
 storage of the original material may be ignored or is there a specific
 risk
 to scanning?
 
 3, Are there storage materials you would specifically warn against?
 
 I always read everything you post>
 
 
 
 --
 Richard Knoppow
 dickburk@ix.netcom.com
 Los Angeles, CA, USA
 
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