Re: Cyanotype woes
You curmudgeon, you. Actually, Keith, as of late I have been experimenting with different (low tech) ways of making negs, one of them being CMYK. I finally got a print I like with CMYK. But doing one more negative, one more layer, feels like the opposite of cheating. I also found that my black looked dull and would prefer perhaps a black mixed with a transparent, say viridian and magenta mix that would equate to black. But anyway, I did finally try it, and CMYK is kinda fun! Sometimes with the cyanotype underlayer, if it is pale I just keep doing the print and then print a layer of thalo blue on top of the whole gum print with the cyano neg and it deepens the print and adds punch. Chris ----- Original Message Follows ----- From: Keith Gerling <keith.gerling@gmail.com> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: Re: Cyanotype woes Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:12:38 -0600 >I'm one of those "some" that always insisted on a black >layer - in fact I was downright curmudgeonly about the >importance of CMYK over RGB. I like to vary my palette, >and I'm not crazy about having to use cyanotype for my blue >(for years I used only variations on Paynes gray) but Masa >is very thin and does not take well to multiple gum layers, >so I'm utilizing cyanotype out of need. Now things are so >darned EASY with just two layers that it feels like I'm >cheating. > >On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Keith Gerling >> <keith.gerling@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks! I was >> beginning to think that maybe the mold in these old >>bottles was a critical component. >> I'm totally in love with Masa. It is perfect for my >> needs and if it ever changes it'll be back to tarpaper >>and aluminum for me! >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Christina Z. Anderson >> <zphoto@montana.net> wrote: >> > Keith, >> > Don't panic...help is on the way... >> > >> > It should be 20g of FAC which is 10 tsp per 100ml of >> > water or 17 tablespoons (about) for 500ml IF you are >> > using the green powdery FAC that weighs half as much >as the brown scales. So plop more FAC in there. With the >> > revised edition of my Alt manual I had to correct >> > that because the FACS weigh so different. >> > >> > However, I have tried all kinds of formulae of >> > cyanotype ratios, according to Mike Ware's book, and >> > they don't look much different except in speed as far >as blue is concerned. In fact, I have Sam Wang's chart >> > that maps out the different formulae that people use >> > for cyanotype and I finally had to ask Mike offlist >> > is this possible that cyanotype could be so >uncritical as far as dilution/ratio goes. He addresses it >> >in his cyano book. >> > And I have not yet had any bleaching of the layer >> > with gum--in fact, the layer of cyano, due to the >> > acidity of gum, gets deeper when the next layer goes >> >on. >> > I only use a 15% dichromate and a 1 + 2 gum so maybe >> > your am di is stronger, your gum is weaker, or >> > whatnot. I think Don Bryant has also said he >experiences bleaching of the layer, though. I might >> > address the alkalinity of your water, because I know >> > for one thing that Fabriano Artistico is a very >alkaline paper and I get lots of namby pamby cyanotype on >> > that paper and had to, in fact, increase my exposure >> > and do a different curve for that particular paper. >> > >> > I HOPE the paper you have is the same batch of Masa >> > so the paper did not change in manufacture like >> > Platine did. Chris >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Keith Gerling" <keith.gerling@gmail.com> >> > To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:37 AM >> > Subject: Cyanotype woes >> > >> > >> > > I'm at the end of a month-long project printing gum >> > > over cyanotype and I seem to have run into a >> > > problem. I'm not at all experienced in cyano, but >> > > for weeks now I've been getting perfectly >scrumptious prints on Masa using three different batches >> > > that I've found laying around that vary from 6 to 8 >> > > years in age. One of these batches I mixed up >> > > myself, one was from a friend, and one is in >Bostick and Sullivan bottles and all of them perform >> > > identically. Running low, I mixed up a fresh >> > > batch last week with fresh chemicals and distilled >water. Totally different results. The old batches gave me >> > > deep Prussian blues almost immediately. The new >> > > stuff produces weaker looking prints that are much >> > > more cyan (greener). But the biggest issue is that >> > > the prints bleach out in the gum development stage >of the process. Granted, my well water might be alkaline, >> > > and the older prints did bleach out a tad, but I >> > > with red and yellow gum layers I was getting some >> > > of the deepest blacks I've ever seen in any >process. With the new batch everything looks very anemic. >> > > I'm using equal parts A to B (as before, although >> > > I've tried 2 A to 1 B with even worse results). >> > > Having no scale, I used the measuring spoon method >Chris provides in her book. Assuming that the math is >> > > correct (I used 8 tablespoons + 1 tsp FAC for >> > > 500ml) what can explain this difference between old >> > >and new chemistry? >> > > I'm running out of time, as I have to show this >> > > work in two weeks. Any ideas? I'm thinking that I >> > > have three options" 1) use a more concentrated >> > > solution of FAC, 2) dump vinegar in the gum >development water, 3) finish the project in 6 years when >> > > the Cyanotype solutions have properly aged. >> > > >> > > Thanks! >> > > >> > > Keith >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> Assistant Professor of Photography Photography Option Coordinator Montana State University College of Arts and Architecture Department of Media and Theatre Arts, Room 220 P.O. 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