U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: Cyanotype woes

Re: Cyanotype woes



You curmudgeon, you.

Actually, Keith, as of late I have been experimenting with
different (low tech) ways of making negs, one of them being
CMYK.  I finally got a print I like with CMYK.   But doing
one more negative, one more layer, feels like the opposite
of cheating.  I also found that my black looked dull and
would prefer perhaps a black mixed with a transparent, say
viridian and magenta mix that would equate to black.  

But anyway, I did finally try it, and CMYK is kinda fun!

Sometimes with the cyanotype underlayer, if it is pale I
just keep doing the print and then print a layer of thalo
blue on top of the whole gum print with the cyano neg and it
deepens the print and adds punch.
Chris


----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Keith Gerling <keith.gerling@gmail.com>
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: Cyanotype woes
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:12:38 -0600

>I'm one of those "some"  that always insisted on a black
>layer - in fact I was downright curmudgeonly about the
>importance of CMYK over RGB.   I like to vary my palette,
>and I'm not crazy about having to use cyanotype for my blue
>(for years I used only variations on Paynes gray) but Masa
>is very thin and does not take well to multiple gum layers,
>so I'm utilizing cyanotype out of need.  Now things are so
>darned EASY with just two layers that it feels like I'm
>cheating.
>
>On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Keith Gerling
>> <keith.gerling@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks!   I was
>>  beginning to think that maybe the mold in these old
>>bottles was a critical component. 
>>  I'm totally in love with Masa.  It is perfect for my
>>  needs and if it ever changes it'll be back to tarpaper
>>and aluminum for me! 
>>
>>
>>  On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:51 AM, Christina Z. Anderson
>>  <zphoto@montana.net> wrote:
>>  > Keith,
>>  >  Don't panic...help is on the way...
>>  >
>>  >  It should be 20g of FAC which is 10 tsp per 100ml of
>>  >  water or 17 tablespoons (about) for 500ml IF you are
>>  >  using the green powdery FAC that weighs half as much
>as the brown scales.  So plop more FAC in there.  With the
>>  >  revised edition of my Alt manual I had to correct
>>  >  that because the FACS weigh so different.
>>  >
>>  >  However, I have tried all kinds of formulae of
>>  >  cyanotype ratios, according to Mike Ware's book, and
>>  >  they don't look much different except in speed as far
>as blue is concerned.  In fact, I have Sam Wang's chart
>>  >  that maps out the different formulae that people use
>>  >  for cyanotype and I finally had to ask Mike offlist
>>  >  is this possible that cyanotype could be so
>uncritical as far as dilution/ratio goes.  He addresses it
>>  >in his cyano book. 
>>  >  And I have not yet had any bleaching of the layer
>>  >  with gum--in fact, the layer of cyano, due to the
>>  >  acidity of gum, gets deeper when the next layer goes
>>  >on. 
>>  >  I only use a 15% dichromate and a 1 + 2 gum so maybe
>>  >  your am di is stronger, your gum is weaker, or
>>  >  whatnot.  I think Don Bryant has also said he
>experiences bleaching of the layer, though.  I might
>>  >  address the alkalinity of your water, because I know
>>  >  for one thing that Fabriano Artistico is a very
>alkaline paper and I get lots of namby pamby cyanotype on
>>  >  that paper and had to, in fact, increase my exposure
>>  >  and do a different curve for that particular paper.
>>  >
>>  >  I HOPE the paper you have is the same batch of Masa
>>  >  so the paper did not change in manufacture like
>>  >  Platine did. Chris
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >  ----- Original Message -----
>>  >  From: "Keith Gerling" <keith.gerling@gmail.com>
>>  >  To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
>>  >  Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 8:37 AM
>>  >  Subject: Cyanotype woes
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >  > I'm at the end of a month-long project printing gum
>>  >  > over cyanotype and I seem to have run into a
>>  >  > problem.  I'm not at all experienced in cyano,  but
>>  >  > for weeks now I've been getting perfectly
>scrumptious prints on Masa using three different batches
>>  >  > that I've found laying around that vary from 6 to 8
>>  >  > years in age.  One of these batches I mixed up
>>  >  > myself, one was from a friend, and one is in
>Bostick and Sullivan bottles and all of them perform
>>  >  > identically.   Running low, I mixed up a fresh
>>  >  > batch last week with fresh chemicals and distilled
>water.  Totally different results.  The old batches gave me
>>  >  > deep Prussian blues almost immediately.  The new
>>  >  > stuff produces weaker looking prints that are much
>>  >  > more cyan (greener).  But the biggest issue is that
>>  >  > the prints bleach out in the gum development stage
>of the process.  Granted, my well water might be alkaline,
>>  >  > and the older prints did bleach out a tad, but I
>>  >  > with red and yellow gum layers I was getting some
>>  >  > of the deepest blacks I've ever seen in any
>process. With the new batch everything looks very anemic. 
>>  >  > I'm using equal parts A to B (as before, although
>>  >  > I've tried 2 A to 1 B with even worse results). 
>>  >  > Having no scale, I used the measuring spoon method
>Chris provides in her book.   Assuming that the math is
>>  >  > correct (I used 8 tablespoons + 1 tsp FAC for
>>  >  > 500ml) what can explain this difference between old
>>  >  >and new chemistry? 
>>  >  > I'm running out of time, as I have to show this
>>  >  > work in two weeks. Any ideas?  I'm thinking that I
>>  >  > have three options"  1) use a more concentrated
>>  >  > solution of FAC, 2) dump vinegar in the gum
>development water, 3) finish the project in 6 years when
>>  >  > the Cyanotype solutions have properly aged.
>>  >  >
>>  >  > Thanks!
>>  >  >
>>  >  > Keith
>>  >  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>> 

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