[alt-photo] Re: BLEEDIN' PT/PD PRINTS

Tue Dec 15 14:48:59 GMT 2009

Bob,
How much PVA are you adding to the coating solution?

I have to tell you a funny.  One of my students just did his final senior thesis on fences taken with pinhole 4x5 film, scanned, negatives printed digitally and large.  He came into my office and was having trouble getting any detail in his highlights even though he was using the same curve and same color found in the PDN process in my class last spring.  I went through all steps (humidity, paper, coating, exposure, blah blah) and then one final question--did you dilute the NA2?  Oh, he had forgotten that part, to dilute the NA2 to a 5% solution which his diginegs were calibrated to--and NA2 comes as a 20%.  Not only that, the other student doing a platinum project this semester (platinum over ink jet) did the same thing!!  The power of taking notes during lecture AND lab and rereading my alt manual again (this is completely outlined on p. 86!) was made clear after failed prints and money down the drain...

Both projects were spectacular and it warmed my heart to see these students graduating with great alt, something they can always do. Critique was all day yesterday, 8AM-9PM.  The longest critique I have ever sat through...and another one today, but this one only 4 hr.
Chris

Christina Z. Anderson
christinaZanderson.com

On Dec 14, 2009, at 8:19 AM, BOB KISS wrote:

> DEAR ERIC, CHRIS, ET AL.,
> 	I think my problems were:
> 1) I didn't dry the full sheet of paper sufficiently.  I am making 15X19
> images on 20X24 paper.  
> 2) I think I used a little too much PVA which kept the soln on the surface
> of the paper rather than allowing it to soak in.  I have reduced the PVA and
> increased the pure alcohol and the test print has no bleedin'.  
> ***I am about to expose and process the new full sheet.  I will report when
> done.
> 
> 		HOLIDAY CHEERS!
> 			BOB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> EJ Photo
> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 11:14 AM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: BLEEDIN' PT/PD PRINTS
> 
> Chris, both in volume and or by solution strength; equal molar solutions. A
> trick I learned many many years back was altering the ratio to slightly
> change contrast in a print. 
> 
> 
> Be careful not to the print rub on the bottom of rough tray, it should allow
> the excess to fall off the print downward into the solution instead of
> across the paper and onto some what active excess coating area that was
> excited a little during the exposure looking for something to do with the
> energy. It does not take long, or has not in my experience. It can also
> change as the developer ages. 
> 
> Eric Neilsen
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
> skype me with ejprinter
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Christina Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 1:13 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: BLEEDIN' PT/PD PRINTS
> 
> BOB,
> Mine, too, occurred during the early part of development.  The solution
> would stream out of the dark areas of the print.
> 
> Eric, you say check balance of pt/pd mix.  I am assuming you mean make sure
> enough ferric, correct?  What I found is my eyedropper for pt/pd solution
> was bigger than my one for ferric, hence I was getting more pt/pd salts than
> ferric.  I corrected that as one of the measures. Is this what you are
> saying?
> Chris
> 
> Christina Z. Anderson
> christinaZanderson.com
> 
> On Dec 12, 2009, at 11:32 AM, BOB KISS wrote:
> 
>> DEAR ERIC,
>> 	Yes, the bleeding occurs during early part of development.  I will
>> try your suggestions and report.  Thanks!
>> 			HOLIDAY CHEERS!
>> 				BOB
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> EJ Photo
>> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 2:25 PM
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: BLEEDIN' PT/PD PRINTS
>> 
>> Bob, is your bleeding post exposure, during process? Do you see it wash
> off
>> and into the non exposed border? 
>> 
>> 
>> Process up side down.
>> 
>> Check balance of ferric to pt/pd mix.
>> 
>> Back side dry with a little heat.   
>> 
>> Have a shot of print enhancer prior to and after every coating and when
> your
>> done, you won't bloody well care, but you'd have a good time trying. 
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> 
>> Eric Neilsen
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> 
>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
>> skype me with ejprinter
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> BOB KISS
>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:26 AM
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: BLEEDIN' PT/PD PRINTS
>> 
>> DEAR CHRISTINA,
>> 	Thanks for the info!  
>> 	Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, I did follow my own guidelines which have
>> never produced bleeding in the past but did this morning.  I am beginning
> to
>> suspect that I didn't blow dry the print dry enough even though I did let
> it
>> sit for about 10 mins before re-humidifying.  On next print I will check
> it
>> to make certain it is completely dry from the blow drying, wait 15 mins,
> and
>> then re-humidify.  
>> 	I will report results...might be tomorrow or later as I am scanning
>> the next neg for this show.
>> 		HOLIDAY CHEERS!
>> 			BOB
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> Christina Anderson
>> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 12:11 PM
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: BLEEDIN' PT/PD PRINTS
>> 
>> Yes, Bob,
>> It was me, actually...
>> And boy was it a PITA.
>> It never happened before and I always used Arches Platine.  Then last year
>> or so ago it happened continually on the same paper.  I then went and
> tested
>> different papers, adding water to the coating solution, adding Everclear,
>> methylated alcohol, Tween, etc.  This is what I ended up doing. Also,
> below
>> are some notes from the list on this topic that I saved in a file.  OH,
> when
>> I bought the new ferric and tested it I got no bleeding but when I went
> back
>> to an old batch of Platine I got bleeding again so...the best I could
> figure
>> was it was a combo of paper sizing change, old ferric, not enough
> humidity,
>> droppers being different...
>> 
>> Switched to Cot 320.
>> Switched from ammonium citrate to warm potassium oxalate developer.
>> Bought new ferric oxalate.
>> Found that more ferric, more bleed occurred.
>> Checked to make sure my eye droppers were the same drop size so I wasn't
>> going overboard on pt/pd or ferric.
>> Bought a humidifier for my dimroom and made sure the solution was absorbed
>> into the paper instead of sitting on top.
>> Switched to Heico Permawash
>> Chris
>> Notes from list:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Try adding a LITTLE Everclear (ethanol) to your sensitizer. I use it at a
>> rate of about 5 drops per every ml of sensitizer. (Kerik)
>> 
>>    I have not seen bleeding with platine in quite some time. . If your
>> blacks are good and rich but just not sticking to the paper, I'd look at
>> your soaking and drying as the problem. If your blacks are weak and you
> are
>> getting wash off, you may indeed look to your ferric.  I would also
> suggest
>> adding some Oxalic Acid to the ferric and see what that does. (Eric)
>> 
>>    I was struck by the fact that you do NOT use a hair dryer on low
>> setting to dryyour coated paper.  I do the following and have NEVER had
> any
>> bleeding.Yes, I know I live where the humidity in my darkroom hovers
> between
>> 50 and 55% year round but try this anyhow.1) Coat as you usually do. 2) I
>> wait at least a few minutes for the solution to soak into the paper. It
>> shouldn't look "wet" or shiny any more...just feel very damp. 3) I use a
>> hair dryer at low setting dry the paper using circular sweeping motions on
>> both the coated and back side of the paper. 4) I hang the paper in the
>> darkroom for around 10 minutes for everything to stabilize and even out.
> 5)
>> I then re-moisten it holding it high above a steaming pot of water.  I do
>> this just until the paper goes slightly limp and loses its strong dry
>> feeling. 6) Again, I leave the paper just a minute to stabilize and even
>> out. 7) Voila: Good D-max, clean highlights, decent contrast, and no
>> bleeding. (from none other than you, BOB
>> !)
>> 
>>    Not sure about the bleeding issue since this is something I have not
>> experienced. It could be an old developer issue, or a paper issue,  just
>> don't know. (Sandy)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Christina Z. Anderson
>> 
>> christinaZanderson.com
>> 
>> On Dec 11, 2009, at 8:19 AM, BOB KISS wrote:
>> 
>>> DEAR LIST,
>>> 	No this isn't a cockney expletive!  	
>>> 	I recall on this (well, the older incarnation, actually) list about
>>> 12 to 18 months ago someone (was it Katherine?) experienced some bleeding
>> in
>>> their pt/pd prints at the edges of the white paper and high density
>> (black)
>>> areas.  I also seem to recall that, after much ado, the fix was something
>>> very simple (I hope).
>>> 	Does anyone remember this thread?  Lead me to the thread in the
>>> archives?
>>> 		HOLIDAY CHEERS!
>>> 			BOB
>>> 
>>> Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ 
>>> 
>>> "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow.  Learn as if you are going to
>>> live forever".  Mahatma Gandhi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> 
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