[alt-photo] Re: DESICCATE! DESICCATE! DANCE TO THE MUSIC!
BOB KISS
bobkiss at caribsurf.com
Wed Jul 28 20:41:19 GMT 2010
DEAR LIST,
This thread has been very interesting. When I first posted with the
"Desiccate" subject, I received two posts with suggestions as to how to keep
my powder dry (Ammonium Thiocyanate, that is) and the rest, under the same
"subject" were of a different nature.
But, if I may return to the topic, does anyone else have any
suggestions how to keep my pound of Ammonium Thiocyanate from turning into a
plastic jar of solution with some crystals at the bottom?
CHEERS!
BOB
-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
ender100 at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:06 PM
To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: DESICCATE! DESICCATE! DANCE TO THE MUSIC!
Hi Diana,
My apologies, if you took my post personally-it isn't about you. I think
your post and the thread it belonged to just popped some issues related to
the list up above the level of animal awareness in my brain.... or perhaps
even vegetable awareness, so I hit respond rather than taking the time to
start a new thread and look up the list address. So my sin is probably
laziness. I hope you didn't feel that I "jumped on you" and will forgive my
sin.
But then, we did all benefit by learning more about you personally from your
reply, so it wasn't a total loss. Also, I appreciate that you are a "direct
person." Directness is a good thing.
So again my apologies for the misunderstanding that led to you having to
spend time writing such a complete and intelligent response. But apparently
you felt we did find some common ground of agreement so that is good.
Probably my sense of humor is an acquired taste-as my children could
certainly attest to-but then they were a captive audience and I had years to
brainwash them. Now, my daughter Kaddiddlehopper, seems to be bent on
passing it on to the next generation. Hopefully this will not lead to
worldwide conflict. Maybe that is why I usually identify weird comments
that strike me as humorous by the tag line "hehehehe", which in this case I
failed to do-and look at the consequences of that failure-you could have
probably made 3-4 gum prints in the time you took to reply. But I am glad
for your gracious reply.
Don't they say that music is just pure mathematics? But then, I too
digress.
Maybe we should all start posts with "I'm new to the list"?
Back to my closet.
Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
PDNPrint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
-----Original Message-----
From: Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 2:11 pm
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: DESICCATE! DESICCATE! DANCE TO THE MUSIC!
Hi Mark,
Just to clarify-- my comment wasn't really about the "creativity of [my]
marital relationship" (or, perhaps that comment was an attempt at being
amusing?-- I honestly can never tell); it was, rather, a comment that once
one gets to a certain level, those who are at that level consider
mathematics to also be highly creative (as creative, in its own way, as--
say-- the visual arts). I suspect that's true for those in the sciences as
well. I remember when our daughter was in high school, and one of only 3
females in her advanced physics class-- she was good, but I remember her
saying that she would never go into that field, because-- although she was
good at it-- she didn't nearly have the vision and imagination that a few of
her classmates (who did go on to be physics majors in college and on into
graduate school) had, and she felt that would always hold her back-- in that
particular field. That's just a little aside. The follow-up post I made to
my original post was really just an explanation that, since I might have
implied math and science aren't creative, too, I do know they are and can
be-- and didn't want anybody jumping on me about that comment. Of course,
it never dawned on me I'd have to explain that little explanation as well--
but, what do you know, here I am having to do just that.
On to the topic at hand-- I am in complete agreement with what you write
here. I have no idea why you felt the need to write that to me,
specifically in response to what I just wrote. Perhaps this is just the
nature of emails/posts, which are so different from dialogue when people are
in an actual room, talking to each other.
While I absolutely do appreciate, like to understand, and value the
chemistry involved in alt processes-- I will, once again, say that had
anyone ever talked about molarity, or attempted to teach a beginning alt
process class in that way to me (yikes-- all those equations?!)-- again, I
would have most certainly bolted for the nearest exit, and never ventured
further. I would have (wrongly) assumed that alt processes required more
math and chemistry than I was willing to contemplate. The key word here,
Mark, is "beginning." I also suspect that Loris's students are quite
different from the ones I find myself teaching.
I agree that there is a "need for tolerance" on topics, and I was stunned by
the quality of the discourse on this particular topic. I often wonder if
people would have a real dialogue with others in the same way, were they
speaking to each other in "real life."
But . . . nothing I said in my earlier post suggested that I think topics
should be shut down, that topics on science or chemistry are inappropriate
or "silly," or that whatever anybody might write is pointless, stupid, or
"off-bounds." I choose not to talk about step wedges and equations, but
that's just me. I read most every post here, regardless--even detailed
comments on processes about which I know nothing-- hell, I didn't even use
the delete key when we got to pink thongs-- or was it a thong? Hmm . . .
But I digress. My point is-- I agree with you. What made you think I
didn't? Just because I said I would have been turned off by all that
chemistry in a beginning alt photo class/photography class? Well, I would
have been. And I personally wouldn't teach a beginning printing class that
way, either. That's not to say that anything anyone has written about all
this is wrong, or how someone else might teach is wrong, or what they've
said is "inappropriate." Frankly, I don't think what I've said is, either.
And if I ever thought I had the ability, in a post no-less, to shut down a
conversation-- then, wow-- I'm a better writer than I ever knew possible.
I will say that I've taken all kinds of classes over the decades with some
really excellent teachers-- amazing artists, some of whom are actually
"famous" and some of whom aren't-- but all really good at what they do, and
how they teach in a classroom. I'm thankful that I've always learned
something in every art class I've ever taken, and that not one of those
teachers has ever sent me running for the exit.
One last point-- I'm a pretty direct person, Mark-- in emails, posts, and in
real life. Whatever I post here, I'd also say the same thing in person. No
double meanings, no "inside" jokes, and no reading between the lines with
me. What I say is usually what I mean, and mostly it's just my opinion.
To answer your last question, though, I suspect the reason so many list
members don't post and only lurk-- is because they're terrified of
expressing an opinion, and then having someone else post, and first, of
course, mention how long they themselves have been a list member, and then
go on to "attack" the poster and post they're commenting on, based on ideas
and opinions that the poster never actually expressed or thought. Yep,
that's what I think. Again, just my opinion.
Oh wait. I forgot. :) Carry on.
~Diana
On Jul 28, 2010, at 1:52 PM, ender100 at aol.com wrote:
> Hi Diana,
>
>
> I won't venture to comment on the creativity of your marital >
relationship, but I would like to comment about posting on the list > and
what is "appropriate."
>
>
> When I first came on the list I enjoyed lurking and gleefully read > all
the posts until one day the topic of Pyro came up and there were > seemingly
endless posts on the topic. Since I did not use Pyro, it > wasn't all that
interesting and eventually I thought I would have to > shoot myself if I
read another post on the topic. Later it was gum > stain tests that tested
my ability to maintain concentration. > However, since that time I've
totally reversed my views on this issue.
>
>
> I feel at this point that there is a real need for tolerance on > topics
and even the quantity of posts on topics. I am not saying > that pissing
matches on topics are appropriate, unless they are > truly entertaining and
witty. True, every list has a few compulsive > responders, but that is the
nature of the human condition.
>
>
> Through the benevolence of people like Kees, Gord before him, and >
others, we have an alt photo list. Beyond that, the list, in a > sense,
belongs to "the people" and members should be able to post > and discuss
whatever they feel is relevant, as long as it is > reasonably on topic.
Though, I do find that little anecdotes that > people share about their
personal lives, such as Chris's pink > thongs, makes them more "real" and
helps to fill in the blanks > regarding who the list members are.
>
>
> I think posts about the art, the craft, and the science of alt photo >
should all be welcomed-I don't see that any one category should be >
considered less appropriate. The recent molarity polarity > discussions
have been interesting to some and not so to others, but > then what
difference does that make. Is there a topic that Everyone > is passionate
about and wants to discuss? I doubt it.
>
>
> Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to the issue of the "science" of alt > photo
being considered a silly topic in light of the Sarah Palin/Tea > Party
movement "ignorance of science and facts" is to be applauded-> but then that
is venturing off-topic. As they always say, you have > a Delete Key if you
don't want to read a thread on the list. We use > our personal "delete key"
all the time (without thinking about it > twice) when we read the news,
choose a book, watch television, and > surf the web.
>
>
> I think that placing topics off bounds or silly does more to hurt > the
list than help the list. It inhibits people. The list had, I > believe
over 500 members, of which only perhaps 10% posted > regularly. Why don't
the rest of the members post? Do they fear > they will be laughed at or
made fun of or branded wackos for > venturing to post a thought or question
that someone who posts > frequently might criticize?
>
>
> I say give peace a chance...ooops, wrong topic... I say give people > a
chance to express themselves freely on the list as long as they do > it in a
respectful fashion. If they don't, the list owner can > easily bounce them
off, as Gord did in the past when "unnamed" > persons pushed the rhetoric
beyond the limits of respectful > discourse. Clearly a small percentage of
people have an adolescent > need either be the center of attention and will
foment arguments > just to remain there, or have past grudges that cause
them to return > to the list for revenge and to destroy the list-but they
are easily > deleted too by the list owners Big Delete Key in the Sky. ;)
>
>
> OK, back to my closet.
>
>
> Best Wishes,
>
>
> Mark Nelson
> www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
> PDNPrint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
>
>
>
>
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