[alt-photo] Re: DESICCATE! DESICCATE! DANCE TO THE MUSIC!

[Mark Nelson]

David, 

Are you between a rock and a hard place. 

Hehehe

Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy

On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:54 PM, David Ashcraft <davidashcraft at sti.net> wrote:

> Keep it in Mark's closet, I'm sure he must take alot of heat and that anything could stay dry in there!  hahaha
> 
> I'll crawl back under my rock now.
> 
> On Jul 28, 2010, at 1:41 PM, BOB KISS wrote:
> 
>> DEAR LIST,
>>  This thread has been very interesting.  When I first posted with the
>> "Desiccate" subject, I received two posts with suggestions as to how to keep
>> my powder dry (Ammonium Thiocyanate, that is) and the rest, under the same
>> "subject" were of a different nature.
>>  But, if I may return to the topic, does anyone else have any
>> suggestions how to keep my pound of Ammonium Thiocyanate from turning into a
>> plastic jar of solution with some crystals at the bottom?
>>      CHEERS!
>>          BOB
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
>> ender100 at aol.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 4:06 PM
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: DESICCATE! DESICCATE! DANCE TO THE MUSIC!
>> 
>> Hi Diana,
>> 
>> 
>> My apologies, if you took my post personally-it isn't about you.  I think
>> your post and the thread it belonged to just popped some issues related to
>> the list up above the level of animal awareness in my brain.... or perhaps
>> even vegetable awareness, so I hit respond rather than taking the time to
>> start a new thread and look up the list address.  So my sin is probably
>> laziness.  I hope you didn't feel that I "jumped on you" and will forgive my
>> sin.
>> 
>> 
>> But then, we did all benefit by learning more about you personally from your
>> reply, so it wasn't a total loss.  Also, I appreciate that you are a "direct
>> person."  Directness is a good thing.
>> 
>> 
>> So again my apologies for the misunderstanding that led to you having to
>> spend time writing such a complete and intelligent response.  But apparently
>> you felt we did find some common ground of agreement so that is good.
>> 
>> 
>> Probably my sense of humor is an acquired taste-as my children could
>> certainly attest to-but then they were a captive audience and I had years to
>> brainwash them.  Now, my daughter Kaddiddlehopper, seems to be bent on
>> passing it on to the next generation.  Hopefully this will not lead to
>> worldwide conflict.  Maybe that is why I usually identify weird comments
>> that strike me as humorous by the tag line "hehehehe", which in this case I
>> failed to do-and look at the consequences of that failure-you could have
>> probably made 3-4 gum prints in the time you took to reply.  But I am glad
>> for your gracious reply.
>> 
>> 
>> Don't they say that music is just pure mathematics?  But then, I too
>> digress.
>> 
>> 
>> Maybe we should all start posts with "I'm new to the list"?
>> 
>> 
>> Back to my closet.
>> 
>> 
>> Best Wishes,
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Nelson
>> www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
>> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>> PDNPrint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net>
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>> Sent: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 2:11 pm
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: DESICCATE! DESICCATE! DANCE TO THE MUSIC!
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Just to clarify-- my comment wasn't really about the "creativity of [my]
>> marital relationship" (or, perhaps that comment was an attempt at being
>> amusing?-- I honestly can never tell); it was, rather, a comment that once
>> one gets to a certain level, those who are at that level consider
>> mathematics to also be highly creative (as creative, in its own way, as--
>> say-- the visual arts).  I suspect that's true for those in the sciences as
>> well.  I remember when our daughter was in high school, and one of only 3
>> females in her advanced physics class-- she was good, but I remember her
>> saying that she would never go into that field, because-- although she was
>> good at it-- she didn't nearly have the vision and imagination that a few of
>> her classmates (who did go on to be physics majors in college and on into
>> graduate school) had, and she felt that would always hold her back-- in that
>> particular field.  That's just a little aside.  The follow-up post I made to
>> my original post was really just an explanation that, since I might have
>> implied math and science aren't creative, too, I do know they are and can
>> be-- and didn't want anybody jumping on me about that comment.  Of course,
>> it never dawned on me I'd have to explain that little explanation as well--
>> but, what  do you know, here I am having to do just that.
>> 
>> On to the topic at hand-- I am in complete agreement with what you write
>> here.  I have no idea why you felt the need to write that to me,
>> specifically in response to what I just wrote.  Perhaps this is just the
>> nature of emails/posts, which are so different from dialogue when people are
>> in an actual room, talking to each other.
>> 
>> While I absolutely do appreciate, like to understand, and value the
>> chemistry involved in alt processes-- I will, once again, say that had
>> anyone ever talked about molarity, or attempted to teach a beginning alt
>> process class in that way to me (yikes-- all those equations?!)-- again, I
>> would have most certainly bolted for the nearest exit, and never ventured
>> further.  I would have (wrongly) assumed that alt processes required more
>> math and chemistry than I was willing to contemplate.  The key word here,
>> Mark, is "beginning."  I also suspect that Loris's students are quite
>> different from the ones I find myself teaching.
>> 
>> I agree that there is a "need for tolerance" on topics, and I was stunned by
>> the quality of the discourse on this particular topic.  I often wonder if
>> people would have a real dialogue with others in the same way, were they
>> speaking to each other in "real life."
>> 
>> But . . . nothing I said in my earlier post suggested that I think topics
>> should be shut down, that topics on science or chemistry are inappropriate
>> or "silly," or that whatever anybody might write is pointless, stupid, or
>> "off-bounds."   I choose not to talk about step wedges and equations, but
>> that's just me.  I read most every post here, regardless--even detailed
>> comments on processes about which I know nothing-- hell, I didn't even use
>> the delete key when we got to pink thongs-- or was it a thong?  Hmm . . .
>> 
>> But I digress.  My point is-- I agree with you.  What made you think I
>> didn't?   Just because I said I would have been turned off by all that
>> chemistry in a beginning alt photo class/photography class?  Well, I would
>> have been.  And I personally wouldn't teach a beginning printing class that
>> way, either.  That's not to say that anything anyone has written about all
>> this is wrong, or how someone else might teach is wrong, or what they've
>> said is "inappropriate."   Frankly, I don't think what I've said is, either.
>> And if I ever thought I had the ability, in a post no-less, to shut down a
>> conversation-- then, wow-- I'm a better writer than I ever knew possible.
>> 
>> I will say that I've taken all kinds of classes over the decades with some
>> really excellent teachers-- amazing artists, some of whom are actually
>> "famous" and some of whom aren't-- but all really good at what they do, and
>> how they teach in a classroom.  I'm thankful that I've always learned
>> something in every art class I've ever taken, and that not one of those
>> teachers has ever sent me running for the exit.
>> 
>> One last point-- I'm a pretty direct person, Mark-- in emails, posts, and in
>> real life.  Whatever I post here, I'd also say the same thing in person.  No
>> double meanings, no "inside" jokes, and no reading between the lines with
>> me.  What I say is usually what I mean, and mostly it's just my opinion.
>> 
>> To answer your last question, though, I suspect the reason so many list
>> members don't post and only lurk-- is because they're terrified of
>> expressing an opinion, and then having someone else post, and first, of
>> course, mention how long they themselves have been a list member, and then
>> go on to "attack" the poster and post they're commenting on, based on ideas
>> and opinions that the poster never actually expressed or thought.  Yep,
>> that's what I think.  Again, just my opinion.
>> 
>> Oh wait.  I forgot.  :)   Carry on.
>> 
>> ~Diana
>> 
>> On Jul 28, 2010, at 1:52 PM, ender100 at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Diana,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I won't venture to comment on the creativity of your marital >
>> relationship, but I would like to comment about posting on the list > and
>> what is "appropriate."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> When I first came on the list I enjoyed lurking and gleefully read > all
>> the posts until one day the topic of Pyro came up and there were > seemingly
>> endless posts on the topic.  Since I did not use Pyro, it > wasn't all that
>> interesting and eventually I thought I would have to > shoot myself if I
>> read another post on the topic.  Later it was gum > stain tests that tested
>> my ability to maintain concentration.  > However, since that time I've
>> totally reversed my views on this issue.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I feel at this point that there is a real need for tolerance on > topics
>> and even the quantity of posts on topics.  I am not saying > that pissing
>> matches on topics are appropriate, unless they are > truly entertaining and
>> witty.  True, every list has a few compulsive > responders, but that is the
>> nature of the human condition.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Through the benevolence of people like Kees, Gord before him, and >
>> others, we have an alt photo list.  Beyond that, the list, in a > sense,
>> belongs to "the people"  and members should be able to post > and discuss
>> whatever they feel is relevant, as long as it is > reasonably on topic.
>> Though, I do find that little anecdotes that > people share about their
>> personal lives, such as Chris's pink > thongs, makes them more "real" and
>> helps to fill in the blanks > regarding who the list members are.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think posts about the art, the craft, and the science of alt photo >
>> should all be welcomed-I don't see that any one category should be >
>> considered less appropriate.  The recent molarity polarity > discussions
>> have been interesting to some and not so to others, but > then what
>> difference does that make.  Is there a topic that Everyone > is passionate
>> about and wants to discuss?  I doubt it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to the issue of the "science" of alt > photo
>> being considered a silly topic in light of the Sarah Palin/Tea > Party
>> movement "ignorance of science and facts" is to be applauded-> but then that
>> is venturing off-topic.  As they always say, you have > a Delete Key if you
>> don't want to read a thread on the list.  We use > our personal "delete key"
>> all the time (without thinking about it > twice) when we read the news,
>> choose a book, watch television, and > surf the web.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think that placing topics off bounds or silly does more to hurt > the
>> list than help the list.  It inhibits people.  The list had, I > believe
>> over 500 members, of which only perhaps 10% posted > regularly.  Why don't
>> the rest of the members post?  Do they fear > they will be laughed at or
>> made fun of or branded wackos for > venturing to post a thought or question
>> that someone who posts > frequently might criticize?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I say give peace a chance...ooops, wrong topic... I say give people > a
>> chance to express themselves freely on the list as long as they do > it in a
>> respectful fashion.  If they don't, the list owner can > easily bounce them
>> off, as Gord did in the past when "unnamed" > persons pushed the rhetoric
>> beyond the limits of respectful > discourse.  Clearly a small percentage of
>> people have an adolescent > need either be the center of attention and will
>> foment arguments > just to remain there, or have past grudges that cause
>> them to return > to the list for revenge and to destroy the list-but they
>> are easily > deleted too by the list owners Big Delete Key in the Sky.  ;)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> OK, back to my closet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark Nelson
>>> www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
>>> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>>> PDNPrint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
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