From zphoto at montana.net Wed Jun 2 00:15:24 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:15:24 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] cyanotype Message-ID: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Dear All, I am greatly enjoying teaching this class at Penland on alt, and had to share an image of a cyanotype issue I never see in MT: http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=2076 It's that glorious lavender color when paper is not completely dry. I had a piece of coated paper sit for hours and still require drying. Humidity is a...great teacher! Anyone else experience this? Nice highlights, huh? I do know it is a humidity issue in large part, and perhaps an alkalinity issue with Rives BFK which I am convinced has changed in the last 5 years. What I do NOT understand is why it "steps" in the highlights only. Any clues? Do the darker colors just mask it? I am missing some obvious reason I am sure. We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to alleviate it. Traditional cyanotype, not Ware's. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From mail at loris.medici.name Wed Jun 2 15:49:43 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:49:43 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always expose hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) for sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when you're under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried paper)... ??? Regards, Loris. 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : > ... > We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to alleviate it. > ... From mail at loris.medici.name Wed Jun 2 15:54:25 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:54:25 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: BTW, remember FAC is incredibly hygroscopic and deliquescent, therefore it's pretty normal that the paper doesn't want to get dry in very humid environment. Regards, Loris. 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : > Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always expose > hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer > completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) for > sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain > constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... > > Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the > chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when you're > under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried > paper)... ??? > > Regards, > Loris. > > > 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : >> ... >> We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to alleviate it. >> ... > From jr at joaoribeiro.com Wed Jun 2 16:02:34 2010 From: jr at joaoribeiro.com (Joao Ribeiro) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:02:34 -0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Decreasing volumes of H2O2 In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: Hi Folks, I'd like to start again mordan?age. The formula I had (and lost) asked for some 200 vol. H2O2. The formulas I found today ask for 40 volumes H2O2. How do I conver the volumes? From 200 and 135 to 40? Thanks in advance, Joao -------------- next part -------------- 55 (11) 9607.2106 jr at joaoribeiro.com www.joaoribeiro.com From mail at loris.medici.name Wed Jun 2 15:58:28 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:58:28 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: As for the "why?" I would suggest that you try to add a drop of 40% citric acid into 10ml sensitizer and see if it gets better. If yes, then it's probably chemical fogging (always more noticeable in the highlights) due combination of increased sensitivity and paper impurity (or sensitizer contamination?)... Regards, Loris. P.S. Sorry for the "stuttering" postings... 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : > BTW, remember FAC is incredibly hygroscopic and deliquescent, > therefore it's pretty normal that the paper doesn't want to get dry in > very humid environment. > > Regards, > Loris. > > > 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >> Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always expose >> hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer >> completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) for >> sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain >> constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... >> >> Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the >> chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when you're >> under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried >> paper)... ??? >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> >> 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : >>> ... >>> We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to alleviate it. >>> ... >> > From frangst at gmail.com Wed Jun 2 16:40:47 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 12:40:47 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: Chris, I always viewed the lavender as a nice surprise in botanical photograms done in cyanotype. The moisture trapped in the leaves often gives a surprise purple kick in the light midtones that I suspect is fugitive. After moving from the relatively dry climate of Southern California to Ohio, I viewed the 60% relative humidity as a bonus for working alt. What is the relative humidity at Penland and how are you dealing with, despite the high humidity, working in a "dry" county? -francis On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > As for the "why?" I would suggest that you try to add a drop of 40% > citric acid into 10ml sensitizer and see if it gets better. If yes, > then it's probably chemical fogging (always more noticeable in the > highlights) due combination of increased sensitivity and paper > impurity (or sensitizer contamination?)... > > Regards, > Loris. > > P.S. Sorry for the "stuttering" postings... > > > 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : > > BTW, remember FAC is incredibly hygroscopic and deliquescent, > > therefore it's pretty normal that the paper doesn't want to get dry in > > very humid environment. > > > > Regards, > > Loris. > > > > > > 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : > >> Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always expose > >> hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer > >> completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) for > >> sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain > >> constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... > >> > >> Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the > >> chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when you're > >> under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried > >> paper)... ??? > >> > >> Regards, > >> Loris. > >> > >> > >> 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : > >>> ... > >>> We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to > alleviate it. > >>> ... > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Wed Jun 2 19:43:17 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:43:17 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have NO issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless you count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. I'll be in Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something interesting alt-wise or photographic in general in the Triangle area over the next month, I'd love to know. francis schanberger wrote: > Chris, > > I always viewed the lavender as a nice surprise in botanical photograms done > in cyanotype. The moisture trapped in the leaves often gives a surprise > purple kick in the light midtones that I suspect is fugitive. > > After moving from the relatively dry climate of Southern California to Ohio, > I viewed the 60% relative humidity as a bonus for working alt. What is the > relative humidity at Penland and how are you dealing with, despite the high > humidity, working in a "dry" county? > > -francis > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > > >> As for the "why?" I would suggest that you try to add a drop of 40% >> citric acid into 10ml sensitizer and see if it gets better. If yes, >> then it's probably chemical fogging (always more noticeable in the >> highlights) due combination of increased sensitivity and paper >> impurity (or sensitizer contamination?)... >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> P.S. Sorry for the "stuttering" postings... >> >> >> 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >> >>> BTW, remember FAC is incredibly hygroscopic and deliquescent, >>> therefore it's pretty normal that the paper doesn't want to get dry in >>> very humid environment. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Loris. >>> >>> >>> 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >>> >>>> Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always expose >>>> hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer >>>> completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) for >>>> sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain >>>> constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... >>>> >>>> Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the >>>> chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when you're >>>> under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried >>>> paper)... ??? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Loris. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : >>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to >>>>> >> alleviate it. >> >>>>> ... >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> > > > > From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 2 20:20:44 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:20:44 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> Hi Trevor, Check out the Nasher Art Museum, on Duke's campus: http://www.nasher.duke.edu/exhibitions.php Not alt process, but interesting contemporary Chinese art exhibit right now (including photographs), as well as CDS, though not sure what they have going on right now. Check out all the art galleries in downtown Raleigh, some relatively new: Flanders (South West St); Adam Cave (Hargett Street-- I have alt process work on exhibit there now, including some new tri-color gums); Lee Hansley Gallery (Glenwood Ave); The Collectors Gallery (Fayetteville Street); ArtSpace (Davie Street-- I can't stand the stuff there-- way too commercial for my tastes-- but most people seem to love it); Lump Gallery (S Blount Street- interesting exhibit now, featuring video work); and be sure and visit the newly renovated and reopened NC Museum of Art (Blue Ridge Rd)-- it's spectacular. All of those places have websites, so you can look them up for more information. Not much in the way of photography-- alt or otherwise-- but those places above are worth visiting. With regard to humidity issues, I've actually never had a problem with too much humidity here in NC-- believe it or not. Where I work-- in my house-- the room is cooled by air conditioning in the summer, or heated in the winter. So even though it's a very humid climate, that doesn't seem to matter much. I actually keep a humidifier where I work-- so a cyanotype emulsion, for instance, won't just go sliding off the paper once put in a water development. Without the added humidity from a humidifier, emulsions just don't seem work all that well for me. I'm guessing you're not working in air conditioning up there in the mountains, Chris? I would guess it's not a humidity issue, though; rather, when I get odd colors like that, the reason is usually the choice of paper, or possibly expired chemistry. On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have NO > issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless you > count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. I'll be > in Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something interesting alt- > wise or photographic in general in the Triangle area over the next > month, I'd love to know. > From alt.list at albertonovo.it Wed Jun 2 20:22:19 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:22:19 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Decreasing volumes of H2O2 In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: <20100602202219.13594.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it> Joao, > I'd like to start again mordan?age. > The formula I had (and lost) asked for some 200 vol. H2O2. > The formulas I found today ask for 40 volumes H2O2. > How do I conver the volumes? From 200 and 135 to 40? Volume strength is the volumes of oxygen liberated by one volume of hydrogen peroxide solution. One mole (34.02 g) of H2O2 gives 1/2 moles of O2, that is (@ 0?C and 1 atm) 22.414/2 = 11.2 volumes of oxygen. So, converting from volumes to volumes is equal to converting from moles/L to moles/L. So, to convert from volumes to volumes it is enough to apply the simple "cross rule". For example, from 200 to 40 vols: 200 40 \ / 40 / \ 0 160 --- 200 Take 40 parts (volumes) of 200 vols. and 160 parts of pure water (0 vols) to make 200 parts of 40 vols. solution. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From zphoto at montana.net Wed Jun 2 23:12:36 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:12:36 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Hi Diana, No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is not completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been rainy for the last several days so I imagine the humidity is close to 90%. Fresh chemistry just mixed. However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for VDB, argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no longer suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype now, and my guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a more alkaline one. I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' advice, but have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, only with Ware's, so this was a new one for me. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Trevor, > > Check out the Nasher Art Museum, on Duke's campus: http://www.nasher.duke.edu/exhibitions.php Not alt process, but interesting contemporary Chinese art exhibit right now (including photographs), as well as CDS, though not sure what they have going on right now. Check out all the art galleries in downtown Raleigh, some relatively new: Flanders (South West St); Adam Cave (Hargett Street-- I have alt process work on exhibit there now, including some new tri-color gums); Lee Hansley Gallery (Glenwood Ave); The Collectors Gallery (Fayetteville Street); ArtSpace (Davie Street-- I can't stand the stuff there-- way too commercial for my tastes-- but most people seem to love it); Lump Gallery (S Blount Street- interesting exhibit now, featuring video work); and be sure and visit the newly renovated and reopened NC Museum of Art (Blue Ridge Rd)-- it's spectacular. > > All of those places have websites, so you can look them up for more information. Not much in the way of photography-- alt or otherwise-- but those places above are worth visiting. > > With regard to humidity issues, I've actually never had a problem with too much humidity here in NC-- believe it or not. Where I work-- in my house-- the room is cooled by air conditioning in the summer, or heated in the winter. So even though it's a very humid climate, that doesn't seem to matter much. I actually keep a humidifier where I work-- so a cyanotype emulsion, for instance, won't just go sliding off the paper once put in a water development. Without the added humidity from a humidifier, emulsions just don't seem work all that well for me. > > I'm guessing you're not working in air conditioning up there in the mountains, Chris? I would guess it's not a humidity issue, though; rather, when I get odd colors like that, the reason is usually the choice of paper, or possibly expired chemistry. > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > >> Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have NO issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless you count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. I'll be in Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something interesting alt-wise or photographic in general in the Triangle area over the next month, I'd love to know. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From ender100 at aol.com Wed Jun 2 23:16:41 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:16:41 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: White Vinegar. Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Hi Diana, > No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is > not completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been > rainy for the last several days so I imagine the humidity is close > to 90%. Fresh chemistry just mixed. > > However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for > VDB, argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no > longer suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype > now, and my guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a > more alkaline one. > > I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' > advice, but have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, > only with Ware's, so this was a new one for me. > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > >> Hi Trevor, >> >> Check out the Nasher Art Museum, on Duke's campus: http://www.nasher.duke.edu/exhibitions.php >> Not alt process, but interesting contemporary Chinese art exhibit >> right now (including photographs), as well as CDS, though not sure >> what they have going on right now. Check out all the art galleries >> in downtown Raleigh, some relatively new: Flanders (South West >> St); Adam Cave (Hargett Street-- I have alt process work on exhibit >> there now, including some new tri-color gums); Lee Hansley Gallery >> (Glenwood Ave); The Collectors Gallery (Fayetteville Street); >> ArtSpace (Davie Street-- I can't stand the stuff there-- way too >> commercial for my tastes-- but most people seem to love it); Lump >> Gallery (S Blount Street- interesting exhibit now, featuring video >> work); and be sure and visit the newly renovated and reopened NC >> Museum of Art (Blue Ridge Rd)-- it's spectacular. >> >> All of those places have websites, so you can look them up for more >> information. Not much in the way of photography-- alt or >> otherwise-- but those places above are worth visiting. >> >> With regard to humidity issues, I've actually never had a problem >> with too much humidity here in NC-- believe it or not. Where I >> work-- in my house-- the room is cooled by air conditioning in the >> summer, or heated in the winter. So even though it's a very humid >> climate, that doesn't seem to matter much. I actually keep a >> humidifier where I work-- so a cyanotype emulsion, for instance, >> won't just go sliding off the paper once put in a water >> development. Without the added humidity from a humidifier, >> emulsions just don't seem work all that well for me. >> >> I'm guessing you're not working in air conditioning up there in the >> mountains, Chris? I would guess it's not a humidity issue, >> though; rather, when I get odd colors like that, the reason is >> usually the choice of paper, or possibly expired chemistry. >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: >> >>> Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have >>> NO issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless >>> you count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. >>> I'll be in Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something >>> interesting alt-wise or photographic in general in the Triangle >>> area over the next month, I'd love to know. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 2 23:25:58 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:25:58 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net> Hi Chris, Oh-- so if you were waiting for it to dry-- and it took that long-- and then you used it, that suggests fogging to me. Sounds like the hair dryer is working successfully, though? I forgot how much it rains up there. I was in the mountains a few weeks ago, and so beautiful, but between the fog, the rain, and the low clouds-- it's like everything is swathed in cotton. I know the food there is good, though! :) On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:12 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Hi Diana, > No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is > not completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been > rainy for the last several days so I imagine the humidity is close > to 90%. Fresh chemistry just mixed. > > However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for > VDB, argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no > longer suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype > now, and my guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a > more alkaline one. > > I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' > advice, but have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, > only with Ware's, so this was a new one for me. > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: From viapiano at pacbell.net Wed Jun 2 23:35:57 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:35:57 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com><669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <423D4331407D4C028435E9AD95A36A85@dell4600> If it's indeed the paper, try brushing an acidic solution on it before coating (vinegar, citric, oxalic, dilute stop bath) and see if that helps. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Anderson" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:12 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > Hi Diana, > No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is not > completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been rainy for the > last several days so I imagine the humidity is close to 90%. Fresh > chemistry just mixed. > > However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for VDB, > argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no longer > suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype now, and my > guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a more alkaline one. > > I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' advice, but > have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, only with Ware's, so > this was a new one for me. > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > >> Hi Trevor, >> >> Check out the Nasher Art Museum, on Duke's campus: >> http://www.nasher.duke.edu/exhibitions.php Not alt process, but >> interesting contemporary Chinese art exhibit right now (including >> photographs), as well as CDS, though not sure what they have going on >> right now. Check out all the art galleries in downtown Raleigh, some >> relatively new: Flanders (South West St); Adam Cave (Hargett Street-- I >> have alt process work on exhibit there now, including some new tri-color >> gums); Lee Hansley Gallery (Glenwood Ave); The Collectors Gallery >> (Fayetteville Street); ArtSpace (Davie Street-- I can't stand the stuff >> there-- way too commercial for my tastes-- but most people seem to love >> it); Lump Gallery (S Blount Street- interesting exhibit now, featuring >> video work); and be sure and visit the newly renovated and reopened NC >> Museum of Art (Blue Ridge Rd)-- it's spectacular. >> >> All of those places have websites, so you can look them up for more >> information. Not much in the way of photography-- alt or otherwise-- but >> those places above are worth visiting. >> >> With regard to humidity issues, I've actually never had a problem with >> too much humidity here in NC-- believe it or not. Where I work-- in my >> house-- the room is cooled by air conditioning in the summer, or heated >> in the winter. So even though it's a very humid climate, that doesn't >> seem to matter much. I actually keep a humidifier where I work-- so a >> cyanotype emulsion, for instance, won't just go sliding off the paper >> once put in a water development. Without the added humidity from a >> humidifier, emulsions just don't seem work all that well for me. >> >> I'm guessing you're not working in air conditioning up there in the >> mountains, Chris? I would guess it's not a humidity issue, though; >> rather, when I get odd colors like that, the reason is usually the choice >> of paper, or possibly expired chemistry. >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: >> >>> Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have NO >>> issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless you >>> count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. I'll be in >>> Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something interesting alt-wise >>> or photographic in general in the Triangle area over the next month, I'd >>> love to know. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Wed Jun 2 23:20:55 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:20:55 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: Francis, Penland is WET now!!!!! So we are all (my class) making a run into the local town to buy a case to have cocktails at 5PM on the "veranda". But we are really careful to be done with work before we do that (we can't reenter the darkroom/dimroom after having imbibed) so it is always a tossup--keep working and doing great prints or cut it short and enjoy a glass of wine with the group. Really fun group of students from 25-65. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 10:40 AM, francis schanberger wrote: > Chris, > > I always viewed the lavender as a nice surprise in botanical photograms done > in cyanotype. The moisture trapped in the leaves often gives a surprise > purple kick in the light midtones that I suspect is fugitive. > > After moving from the relatively dry climate of Southern California to Ohio, > I viewed the 60% relative humidity as a bonus for working alt. What is the > relative humidity at Penland and how are you dealing with, despite the high > humidity, working in a "dry" county? > > -francis > From zphoto at montana.net Wed Jun 2 23:37:10 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:37:10 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> Message-ID: <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> I have to tell another funny. BTW the chemistry is definitely not contaminated. BUT listen to this speaking of contamination: We had a row of prints hanging in the one darkroom. I mixed a tray of ammonia for bleaching and tea toning (100ml household ammonia for 1 liter). I went out of the room, came back, and the FUMES from the ammonia had changed all the prints hanging and still wet to lavender (not the dry ones)!!! It was really pretty hilarious. So whenever I think I have seen EVERYTHING under the sun with alt, something else like this comes along. Try it!! It's really a lovely purple. Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 9:58 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > As for the "why?" I would suggest that you try to add a drop of 40% > citric acid into 10ml sensitizer and see if it gets better. If yes, > then it's probably chemical fogging (always more noticeable in the > highlights) due combination of increased sensitivity and paper > impurity (or sensitizer contamination?)... > > Regards, > Loris. > > P.S. Sorry for the "stuttering" postings... > > > 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >> BTW, remember FAC is incredibly hygroscopic and deliquescent, >> therefore it's pretty normal that the paper doesn't want to get dry in >> very humid environment. >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> >> 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >>> Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always expose >>> hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer >>> completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) for >>> sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain >>> constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... >>> >>> Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the >>> chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when you're >>> under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried >>> paper)... ??? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Loris. >>> >>> >>> 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : >>>> ... >>>> We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til "snappy" to alleviate it. >>>> ... >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From ender100 at aol.com Wed Jun 2 23:52:59 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 18:52:59 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> Message-ID: <8FB5E730-8FB0-4B8C-8041-120CD905C476@aol.com> You can count on at least one weird thing happening at every workshop! Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy On Jun 2, 2010, at 6:37 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > I have to tell another funny. > BTW the chemistry is definitely not contaminated. > BUT listen to this speaking of contamination: We had a row of > prints hanging in the one darkroom. I mixed a tray of ammonia for > bleaching and tea toning (100ml household ammonia for 1 liter). I > went out of the room, came back, and the FUMES from the ammonia had > changed all the prints hanging and still wet to lavender (not the > dry ones)!!! It was really pretty hilarious. So whenever I think I > have seen EVERYTHING under the sun with alt, something else like > this comes along. Try it!! It's really a lovely purple. > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 9:58 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > >> As for the "why?" I would suggest that you try to add a drop of 40% >> citric acid into 10ml sensitizer and see if it gets better. If yes, >> then it's probably chemical fogging (always more noticeable in the >> highlights) due combination of increased sensitivity and paper >> impurity (or sensitizer contamination?)... >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> P.S. Sorry for the "stuttering" postings... >> >> >> 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >>> BTW, remember FAC is incredibly hygroscopic and deliquescent, >>> therefore it's pretty normal that the paper doesn't want to get >>> dry in >>> very humid environment. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Loris. >>> >>> >>> 2010/6/2 Loris Medici : >>>> Christina that's my standard practice with cyanotype. I always >>>> expose >>>> hot air force dried paper (after paper absorbed the sensitizer >>>> completely that is - usually takes not more than 4-5 minutes...) >>>> for >>>> sake of consistency. That way my exposure times and contrast remain >>>> constant in all seasons / environmental conditions... >>>> >>>> Humidity increases sensitivity a lot and maybe that is causing the >>>> chemical fogging (my interpretation) which doesn't kick in when >>>> you're >>>> under a specific sensitivity threshold (with thoroughly force dried >>>> paper)... ??? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Loris. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2010/6/2 Christina Anderson : >>>>> ... >>>>> We've taken to blow drying the paper with blow dryers til >>>>> "snappy" to alleviate it. >>>>> ... >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jr at joaoribeiro.com Wed Jun 2 23:58:37 2010 From: jr at joaoribeiro.com (Joao Ribeiro) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 20:58:37 -0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Decreasing volumes of H2O2 In-Reply-To: <20100602202219.13594.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <20100602202219.13594.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it> Message-ID: <8C54B790-A0D1-476B-86AE-C6B9F44DADE2@joaoribeiro.com> Thank you Alberto. It's simple :) Joao On 02/06/2010, at 17:22, Alberto Novo wrote: > Joao, >> I'd like to start again mordan?age. >> The formula I had (and lost) asked for some 200 vol. H2O2. >> The formulas I found today ask for 40 volumes H2O2. >> How do I conver the volumes? From 200 and 135 to 40? > > Volume strength is the volumes of oxygen liberated by one volume of > hydrogen peroxide solution. One mole (34.02 g) of H2O2 gives 1/2 > moles of O2, that is (@ 0?C and 1 atm) 22.414/2 = 11.2 volumes of > oxygen. > So, converting from volumes to volumes is equal to converting from > moles/L to moles/L. > So, to convert from volumes to volumes it is enough to apply the > simple "cross rule". For example, from 200 to 40 vols: > 200 40 > \ / > 40 > / \ > 0 160 > --- > 200 > Take 40 parts (volumes) of 200 vols. and 160 parts of pure water (0 > vols) to make 200 parts of 40 vols. solution. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- 55 (11) 9607.2106 jr at joaoribeiro.com www.joaoribeiro.com From zphoto at montana.net Wed Jun 2 23:39:38 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:39:38 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> <4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: No, the step wedge and the student prints were coated and dried fairly quickly. I am the only one waiting a day, and I did not with the step wedge as I was calibrating the cyanotype process. No fogging. I think Francis is closest with his purple leaf moisture story. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Oh-- so if you were waiting for it to dry-- and it took that long-- and then you used it, that suggests fogging to me. Sounds like the hair dryer is working successfully, though? > > I forgot how much it rains up there. I was in the mountains a few weeks ago, and so beautiful, but between the fog, the rain, and the low clouds-- it's like everything is swathed in cotton. > I know the food there is good, though! :) > > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:12 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > >> Hi Diana, >> No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is not completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been rainy for the last several days so I imagine the humidity is close to 90%. Fresh chemistry just mixed. >> >> However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for VDB, argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no longer suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype now, and my guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a more alkaline one. >> >> I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' advice, but have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, only with Ware's, so this was a new one for me. >> Chris >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Thu Jun 3 01:26:01 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:26:01 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <423D4331407D4C028435E9AD95A36A85@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com><669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> <423D4331407D4C028435E9AD95A36A85@dell4600> Message-ID: <47A040B7-4F70-4127-BD29-8979FE2DBA10@montana.net> will try that, Paul. There is vinegar here.... chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > If it's indeed the paper, try brushing an acidic solution on it before coating (vinegar, citric, oxalic, dilute stop bath) and see if that helps. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Anderson" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:12 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > >> Hi Diana, >> No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is not completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been rainy for the last several days so I imagine the humidity is close to 90%. Fresh chemistry just mixed. >> >> However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for VDB, argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no longer suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype now, and my guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a more alkaline one. >> >> I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' advice, but have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, only with Ware's, so this was a new one for me. >> Chris >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> >> On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: >> >>> Hi Trevor, >>> >>> Check out the Nasher Art Museum, on Duke's campus: http://www.nasher.duke.edu/exhibitions.php Not alt process, but interesting contemporary Chinese art exhibit right now (including photographs), as well as CDS, though not sure what they have going on right now. Check out all the art galleries in downtown Raleigh, some relatively new: Flanders (South West St); Adam Cave (Hargett Street-- I have alt process work on exhibit there now, including some new tri-color gums); Lee Hansley Gallery (Glenwood Ave); The Collectors Gallery (Fayetteville Street); ArtSpace (Davie Street-- I can't stand the stuff there-- way too commercial for my tastes-- but most people seem to love it); Lump Gallery (S Blount Street- interesting exhibit now, featuring video work); and be sure and visit the newly renovated and reopened NC Museum of Art (Blue Ridge Rd)-- it's spectacular. >>> >>> All of those places have websites, so you can look them up for more information. Not much in the way of photography-- alt or otherwise-- but those places above are worth visiting. >>> >>> With regard to humidity issues, I've actually never had a problem with too much humidity here in NC-- believe it or not. Where I work-- in my house-- the room is cooled by air conditioning in the summer, or heated in the winter. So even though it's a very humid climate, that doesn't seem to matter much. I actually keep a humidifier where I work-- so a cyanotype emulsion, for instance, won't just go sliding off the paper once put in a water development. Without the added humidity from a humidifier, emulsions just don't seem work all that well for me. >>> >>> I'm guessing you're not working in air conditioning up there in the mountains, Chris? I would guess it's not a humidity issue, though; rather, when I get odd colors like that, the reason is usually the choice of paper, or possibly expired chemistry. >>> >>> On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: >>> >>>> Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have NO issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless you count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. I'll be in Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something interesting alt-wise or photographic in general in the Triangle area over the next month, I'd love to know. >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 3 01:34:18 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 21:34:18 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> <4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Well, if the students used their paper fairly quickly, then my bet is still on the type of paper used. Humidity just doesn't do that, not in my experience anyway-- but-- as you know-- papers can and do give such vastly different results. If you had another paper to try out with it, that would be helpful. Diana On Jun 2, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > No, the step wedge and the student prints were coated and dried > fairly quickly. I am the only one waiting a day, and I did not with > the step wedge as I was calibrating the cyanotype process. No fogging. > > I think Francis is closest with his purple leaf moisture story. > > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 5:25 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Oh-- so if you were waiting for it to dry-- and it took that long-- >> and then you used it, that suggests fogging to me. Sounds like >> the hair dryer is working successfully, though? >> >> I forgot how much it rains up there. I was in the mountains a few >> weeks ago, and so beautiful, but between the fog, the rain, and the >> low clouds-- it's like everything is swathed in cotton. >> I know the food there is good, though! :) >> From pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca Thu Jun 3 01:35:46 2010 From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca (pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:35:46 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Just want to make mention that vitamin c is one of the few acids that you will want to avoid when acidifying the paper. It can act as a pretty strong reducing agent and may cause the ferric to go ferrous prematurely and cause highlight staining. Citric acid, acetic acid are ok.Filtered lemon juice in a pinch!. Peter Friedrichsen At 07:12 PM 06/02/2010, you wrote: >Hi Diana, >No air conditioning, no humidity, and positively it is paper that is >not completely dry (overnight, paper does not dry). It has been >rainy for the last several days so I imagine the humidity is close >to 90%. Fresh chemistry just mixed. > >However, as far as the paper, I used to always use BFK paper for >VDB, argyro, and cyanotype, and have found this year that it is no >longer suitable for argyrotype, it is what we've used with cyanotype >now, and my guess is they may have changed their sizing agent to a >more alkaline one. > >I'd have to run in town for some vitamin c tabs to test Loris' >advice, but have NEVER used citric for traditional cyano before, >only with Ware's, so this was a new one for me. >Chris > >Christina Z. Anderson >christinaZanderson.com > >On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > > > Hi Trevor, > > > > Check out the Nasher Art Museum, on Duke's > campus: http://www.nasher.duke.edu/exhibitions.php Not alt > process, but interesting contemporary Chinese art exhibit right now > (including photographs), as well as CDS, though not sure what they > have going on right now. Check out all the art galleries in > downtown Raleigh, some relatively new: Flanders (South West St); > Adam Cave (Hargett Street-- I have alt process work on exhibit > there now, including some new tri-color gums); Lee Hansley Gallery > (Glenwood Ave); The Collectors Gallery (Fayetteville Street); > ArtSpace (Davie Street-- I can't stand the stuff there-- way too > commercial for my tastes-- but most people seem to love it); Lump > Gallery (S Blount Street- interesting exhibit now, featuring video > work); and be sure and visit the newly renovated and reopened NC > Museum of Art (Blue Ridge Rd)-- it's spectacular. > > > > All of those places have websites, so you can look them up for > more information. Not much in the way of photography-- alt or > otherwise-- but those places above are worth visiting. > > > > With regard to humidity issues, I've actually never had a problem > with too much humidity here in NC-- believe it or not. Where I > work-- in my house-- the room is cooled by air conditioning in the > summer, or heated in the winter. So even though it's a very humid > climate, that doesn't seem to matter much. I actually keep a > humidifier where I work-- so a cyanotype emulsion, for instance, > won't just go sliding off the paper once put in a water > development. Without the added humidity from a humidifier, > emulsions just don't seem work all that well for me. > > > > I'm guessing you're not working in air conditioning up there in > the mountains, Chris? I would guess it's not a humidity issue, > though; rather, when I get odd colors like that, the reason is > usually the choice of paper, or possibly expired chemistry. > > > > On Jun 2, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > > > >> Things keep coming back to North Carolina. Here in Saudi, I have > NO issues with humidty, or benefit from it at that matter...unless > you count prints drying indoors in less than an hour as a bonus. > I'll be in Raleigh on the 11th. If anyone knows of something > interesting alt-wise or photographic in general in the Triangle > area over the next month, I'd love to know. > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > >_______________________________________________ >Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Thu Jun 3 01:51:48 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 19:51:48 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> <4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <5D028FD6-358B-47DA-ACDA-2DCE2DB16DD8@montana.net> > If you had another paper to try out with it, that would be helpful. > Diana Yeah, that's the problem--it's happened on Nideggen, Kitakata, and Mulberry as well... That's why it has stymied me.... The students that have blow-dried their prints till snappy today have not seen it. Chris From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 3 02:01:12 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 22:01:12 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <5D028FD6-358B-47DA-ACDA-2DCE2DB16DD8@montana.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com> <669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net> <4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net> <5D028FD6-358B-47DA-ACDA-2DCE2DB16DD8@montana.net> Message-ID: Hmm . . . that's so odd. I really have to humidify my papers (for cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, until the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for me-- no matter what paper I use. Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right off in the water. That's why I'm so surprised that humidity would be the issue. Maybe it's just weird water up there, full of weird toxic stuff. :0 On Jun 2, 2010, at 9:51 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: >> If you had another paper to try out with it, that would be helpful. >> Diana > > Yeah, that's the problem--it's happened on Nideggen, Kitakata, and > Mulberry as well... > That's why it has stymied me.... > The students that have blow-dried their prints till snappy today > have not seen it. > Chris > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 3 06:48:35 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 09:48:35 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> Message-ID: <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> I experienced a similar funny incident too: I had put a half-full container of 35% (strong!) HCl in the closet near a - half full, again - bottle of 25% (strong!) ammonia. When I opened the closet few weeks later, everywhere was messed up with a white powder! (Ammonium chloride that is...) Eventually, both the ammonia and HCl bottles were leaking small amnt. of gas. The top of HCl bottle - near and around the cap - was surrounded with ammonium chloride, indicating ammonia was evaporating faster than HCl. As the result, I meticulously cleaned the closet, secured the caps and separated the bottles. (This is in a new house, I was keeping both bottles outside in the balcony at my old place. Unfortunately I don't have a balcony in the new house...) Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Christina Anderson Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:37 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype I have to tell another funny. BTW the chemistry is definitely not contaminated. BUT listen to this speaking of contamination: We had a row of prints hanging in the one darkroom. I mixed a tray of ammonia for bleaching and tea toning (100ml household ammonia for 1 liter). I went out of the room, came back, and the FUMES from the ammonia had changed all the prints hanging and still wet to lavender (not the dry ones)!!! It was really pretty hilarious. So whenever I think I have seen EVERYTHING under the sun with alt, something else like this comes along. Try it!! It's really a lovely purple. Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 3 06:59:08 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 09:59:08 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com><669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net><4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net><5D028FD6-358B-47DA-ACDA-2DCE2DB16DD8@montana.net> Message-ID: Diana, All processes that use FAC are somehow problematic in the department of getting "in" the paper. You need relaxed (humid - not wet!) paper while coating, to have the sensitizer effectively soak in the paper. You don't need damp paper while exposing (if you aren't going for the shortest possible exposure time, that is...), actually, damp/humid paper during exposure is a problem with processes that have FAC sensitizer; since negatives tend to stick to the paper and/or negatives peel the topmost fibers from the paper giving extra grainy / fibrous tones... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Diana Bloomfield Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:01 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Hmm . . . that's so odd. I really have to humidify my papers (for cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, until the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for me-- no matter what paper I use. Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right off in the water. That's why I'm so surprised that humidity would be the issue. Maybe it's just weird water up there, full of weird toxic stuff. :0 From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 3 07:08:35 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 10:08:35 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com><669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net><4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net><5D028FD6-358B-47DA-ACDA-2DCE2DB16DD8@montana.net> Message-ID: My advice would be that you: Humidify before coating, coat, wait until no surface sheen is visible (3-5 minutes depending on paper and environment), thoroughly force dry with heat (both front and back sides, until paper's literallty/practically bone dry), wave the paper few times until it isn't hot anymore (don't overdo it since it immediately starts to suck moisture from the air and do it in a consistent manner), quickly put the paper in the printing frame sealing the back with mylar or similar impermeable material and expose. (Naturally, the exposure times will increase significantly due decreased sensitivity, but once determined it's very consistent - in every RH levels...) Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: Loris Medici Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:59 AM To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' Subject: RE: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Diana, All processes that use FAC are somehow problematic in the department of getting "in" the paper. You need relaxed (humid - not wet!) paper while coating, to have the sensitizer effectively soak in the paper. You don't need damp paper while exposing (if you aren't going for the shortest possible exposure time, that is...), actually, damp/humid paper during exposure is a problem with processes that have FAC sensitizer; since negatives tend to stick to the paper and/or negatives peel the topmost fibers from the paper giving extra grainy / fibrous tones... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Diana Bloomfield Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:01 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Hmm . . . that's so odd. I really have to humidify my papers (for cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, until the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for me-- no matter what paper I use. Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right off in the water. That's why I'm so surprised that humidity would be the issue. Maybe it's just weird water up there, full of weird toxic stuff. :0 From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 3 11:10:45 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:10:45 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4C06B455.7060709@chalkjockeys.com><669EBA93-4F29-4817-B40F-2A8785911D63@bellsouth.net><4EE9C2CE-2039-4CC2-9E7B-7B09CF08182C@bellsouth.net><5D028FD6-358B-47DA-ACDA-2DCE2DB16DD8@montana.net> Message-ID: <7C831E01-6FA4-4B42-87E6-78B146C2F5E7@bellsouth.net> Thanks, Loris. I do allow the paper to dry, of course, before I stick any of my negatives to it. (I've at least learned that much in 25 years of working as a photographer-- even if I might not know much else!) ;) As stated before, though, because my darkroom is either cooled by air conditioning, or heated by forced hot air-- my papers really need humidifying before coating-- for just about any process I use, it seems. I do ensure they're actually damp from the humidifier, humidifying both front and back, and then don't let them sit too long to dry-- just long enough that a negative won't be damaged by the surface. So, no worries-- I don't print with wet paper as that would, obviously, be a problem. Any "lavender" sort of hue I've ever gotten from cyanotype has been either from toning, or from varying results from different papers or fabric. I personally doubt it's humidity that's causing that lavender effect, but that's just my opinion from my own experience. I would actually wonder about trays being used for the water development. Some small amount of chemical contamination could possibly have an effect, too, I would think. ?? Anyway, thanks again, Loris. Diana On Jun 3, 2010, at 2:59 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > Diana, > > All processes that use FAC are somehow problematic in the department > of > getting "in" the paper. You need relaxed (humid - not wet!) paper > while > coating, to have the sensitizer effectively soak in the paper. You > don't > need damp paper while exposing (if you aren't going for the shortest > possible exposure time, that is...), actually, damp/humid paper during > exposure is a problem with processes that have FAC sensitizer; since > negatives tend to stick to the paper and/or negatives peel the topmost > fibers from the paper giving extra grainy / fibrous tones... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On > Behalf Of > Diana Bloomfield > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:01 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > Hmm . . . that's so odd. I really have to humidify my papers (for > cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, > until > the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for > me-- no > matter what paper I use. Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right > off in > the water. That's why I'm so surprised that > humidity would be the issue. Maybe it's just weird water up there, > full of weird toxic stuff. :0 > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr Thu Jun 3 11:58:08 2010 From: dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr (ding dangdong) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:58:08 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Message-ID: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello Loris and all, In a recent 8-day printing frenzy of cyanotype gumovers and tricolors, (for a show of only 13 prints; ugh!) My two most reliable friends were 'vinaigre d alcool' and my wife's hair dryer. I use the vinegar to pre-acidify full sheets of Fabriano Artistico and 10 sheets of smaller (30 x 30cm) indian handmade paper i found at sennelier here in Paris. Dont know if im doing it right but out of laziness or maybe i read it here sometime ago, i decided to consider the 'preshrinking presoak' done at this stage.? also pour 2 cups of it to 5 liters of water in the development when i desire to keep more of the blues in the scale and omit it when i want more to wash off giving me more latitude for the gum layers. In that time span, (May 21 - 28) weather here got funky with extreme changes, raining hard and humid one day then 30 degrees of glorious sunhsine the following. I wasted three parent sheets at one point in this print run because i can't figure out why im getting very dark violet stain in areas mostly in the highlights. My thoughts were 1) overexposing too much 2) uneven coating 3) contaminated or mistake in my chemical mix 4) fogging 5) humidity. It was then that i remembered Loris' advice on printing bone dry that i used the hair dryer and went a little more careful in keeping things at a constant. Im working under time (and supplies running short) pressure so you can imagine how relieved i was when the problem went away. Again, I thank the list for the rescue and specially Loris for this one!!! p.s. For European list members The indian paper i found gave me the deepest blue and very wide tonal range i have experienced with trad cyanotype almost like what i get with cyanotype 2. And bonus is i dont even have to acidify!!! code is 'SP3 2W 3. pochete de papier indien blanc. pur chiffon'. link: http://www.magasinsennelier.com/papier/p_monde.html#pinde p.s.2 apologies for my pained attempt at writing english. Its not my native language neither French. Ding --- En date de?: Jeu 3.6.10, Loris Medici a ?crit?: De: Loris Medici Objet: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] ?: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Date: Jeudi 3 juin 2010, 9h08 My advice would be that you: Humidify before coating, coat, wait until no surface sheen is visible (3-5 minutes depending on paper and environment), thoroughly force dry with heat (both front and back sides, until paper's literallty/practically bone dry), wave the paper few times until it isn't hot anymore (don't overdo it since it immediately starts to suck moisture from the air and do it in a consistent manner), quickly put the paper in the printing frame sealing the back with mylar or similar impermeable material and expose. (Naturally, the exposure times will increase significantly due decreased sensitivity, but once determined it's very consistent - in every RH levels...) Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: Loris Medici Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:59 AM To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' Subject: RE: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Diana, All processes that use FAC are somehow problematic in the department of getting "in" the paper. You need relaxed (humid - not wet!) paper while coating, to have the sensitizer effectively soak in the paper. You don't need damp paper while exposing (if you aren't going for the shortest possible exposure time, that is...), actually, damp/humid paper during exposure is a problem with processes that have FAC sensitizer; since negatives tend to stick to the paper and/or negatives peel the topmost fibers from the paper giving extra grainy / fibrous tones... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Diana Bloomfield Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:01 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Hmm . . . that's so odd.? I really have to humidify my papers (for cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, until the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for me-- no matter what paper I use.? Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right off in the water.? That's why I'm so surprised that? humidity would be the issue.???Maybe it's just weird water up there,? full of weird toxic stuff. :0 _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 3 12:14:24 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:14:24 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <17489C6ECA4943519816D98E2C6E1520@altinyildiz.trk> Happy for you Ding! I work that way since day #1, according to what I had read in Christopher James' book... After a little experience, I realized it's indeed the best workflow for cyanotype. Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of ding dangdong Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:58 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] ... It was then that i remembered Loris' advice on printing bone dry that i used the hair dryer and went a little more careful in keeping things at a constant. Im working under time (and supplies running short) pressure so you can imagine how relieved i was when the problem went away. Again, I thank the list for the rescue and specially Loris for this one!!! p.s. For European list members The indian paper i found gave me the deepest blue and very wide tonal range i have experienced with trad cyanotype almost like what i get with cyanotype 2. And bonus is i dont even have to acidify!!! code is 'SP3 2W 3. pochete de papier indien blanc. pur chiffon'. link: http://www.magasinsennelier.com/papier/p_monde.html#pinde From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Thu Jun 3 12:16:24 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2010 15:16:24 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> I use white vinegar in my initial development AND my final wash (I've found a second bath prevents run-off stains and saves me the task of erasing those with a q-tip and baking soda). I've posted a few current images. I've tried to make the colors as true as possible to the prints, hopefully that translates on your monitors. The flowers were all printed on Strathmore (a paper I'm finding I like more and more), and the landscape was printed on Bienfang Ph Neutral. The latter failed to clear in the highlights, and actually soaked almost through the paper (I was laying it on a little thick). This prompted me to try a size...I threw some gesso on there and, while it did nothing for the staining, gave me a sandy quality I am absolutely smitten with. Diane, if we have opportunity to meet up this month, I'll show you one if you like. I have a few more to make before I hop on the plane next week. The website is here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ ding dangdong wrote: > Hello Loris and all, > > In a recent 8-day printing frenzy of cyanotype gumovers and tricolors, (for a show of only 13 prints; ugh!) My two most reliable friends were 'vinaigre d alcool' and my wife's hair dryer. I use the vinegar to pre-acidify full sheets of Fabriano Artistico and 10 sheets of smaller (30 x 30cm) indian handmade paper i found at sennelier here in Paris. Dont know if im doing it right but out of laziness or maybe i read it here sometime ago, i decided to consider the 'preshrinking presoak' done at this stage. also pour 2 cups of it to 5 liters of water in the development when i desire to keep more of the blues in the scale and omit it when i want more to wash off giving me more latitude for the gum layers. > In that time span, (May 21 - 28) weather here > got funky with extreme > changes, raining hard and humid one day then 30 degrees of glorious sunhsine the following. I wasted three parent sheets at one point in this print run because i can't figure out why im getting very dark violet stain in areas mostly in the highlights. My thoughts were 1) overexposing too much 2) uneven coating 3) contaminated or mistake in my chemical mix 4) fogging 5) humidity. > It was then that i remembered Loris' advice on printing bone dry that i used the hair dryer and went a little more careful in keeping things at a constant. Im working under time (and supplies running short) pressure so you can imagine how relieved i was when the problem went away. Again, I thank the list for the rescue and specially Loris for this one!!! > > p.s. For European list members The indian paper i found gave me the deepest blue and very wide tonal range i have experienced with trad cyanotype almost like what i get with cyanotype 2. And bonus is i dont even have to acidify!!! code is 'SP3 2W 3. pochete de papier indien blanc. pur chiffon'. > link: http://www.magasinsennelier.com/papier/p_monde.html#pinde > > p.s.2 apologies for my pained attempt at writing english. Its not my native language neither French. > > Ding > > --- En date de : Jeu 3.6.10, Loris Medici > a ?crit : > > De: Loris Medici > Objet: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > ?: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" > Date: Jeudi 3 juin 2010, 9h08 > > My advice would be that you: > Humidify before coating, coat, wait until no surface sheen is visible (3-5 > minutes depending on paper and environment), thoroughly force dry with heat > (both front and back sides, until paper's literallty/practically bone dry), > wave the paper few times until it isn't hot anymore (don't overdo it since > it immediately starts to suck moisture from the air and do it in a > consistent manner), quickly put the paper in the printing frame sealing the > back with mylar or similar > impermeable material and expose. (Naturally, the > exposure times will increase significantly due decreased sensitivity, but > once determined it's very consistent - in every RH levels...) > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Loris Medici > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:59 AM > To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' > Subject: RE: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > Diana, > > All processes that use FAC are somehow problematic in the department of > getting "in" the paper. You need relaxed (humid - not wet!) paper while > coating, to have the sensitizer effectively soak in the paper. You don't > need damp paper while exposing (if you aren't going for the shortest > possible exposure time, that is...), actually, damp/humid paper during > exposure is a problem with processes that have FAC sensitizer; since > negatives tend to stick to the paper and/or negatives peel the > topmost > fibers from the paper giving extra grainy / fibrous tones... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of > Diana Bloomfield > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:01 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > Hmm . . . that's so odd. I really have to humidify my papers (for > cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, until > the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for me-- no > matter what paper I use. Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right off in > the water. That's why I'm so surprised that > humidity would be the issue. Maybe > it's just weird water up there, > full of weird toxic stuff. :0 > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr Thu Jun 3 12:37:09 2010 From: dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr (ding dangdong) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <17489C6ECA4943519816D98E2C6E1520@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: <28180.96376.qm@web26007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Yes Loris, I know should have kept following the 'keep everything constant' mantra. I think it applies to almost all the processes as well not only for cyanotype. But im either such a lazybone or just enjoy and thrive in unpredictable results. It for me, and many others im sure,? makes this creative exercises PLAY. Its sunny again here. I hope its the same for you and the rest of the good people here on the list! Ding --- En date de?: Jeu 3.6.10, Loris Medici a ?crit?: De: Loris Medici Objet: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] ?: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Date: Jeudi 3 juin 2010, 14h14 Happy for you Ding! I work that way since day #1, according to what I had read in Christopher James' book... After a little experience, I realized it's indeed the best workflow for cyanotype. Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of ding dangdong Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:58 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] ... It was then that i remembered Loris' advice on printing bone dry that i used the hair dryer and went a little more careful in keeping things at a constant. Im working under time (and supplies running short) pressure so you can imagine how relieved i was when the problem went away. Again, I thank the list for the rescue and specially Loris for this one!!! p.s. For European list members The indian paper i found gave me the deepest blue and very wide tonal range i have experienced with trad cyanotype almost like what i get with cyanotype 2. And bonus is i dont even have to acidify!!! code is 'SP3 2W 3. pochete de papier indien blanc. pur chiffon'. link: http://www.magasinsennelier.com/papier/p_monde.html#pinde _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 3 13:01:26 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:01:26 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: <28180.96376.qm@web26007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <17489C6ECA4943519816D98E2C6E1520@altinyildiz.trk> <28180.96376.qm@web26007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18C95E985B6346689D5F0B965AF8C4E6@altinyildiz.trk> That's why I love cyanotype as an introduction process for first timers; it's seemingly simple and easy(!), but it's a tough bite actually, if you aim the best possible overall quality, forcing/educating you (taming - if you like) to work in a very disciplined and consistent manner. A perfect process to master the general "modus operandi" for many similar processes... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of ding dangdong Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 3:37 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Yes Loris, I know should have kept following the 'keep everything constant' mantra. I think it applies to almost all the processes as well not only for cyanotype. ... From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Thu Jun 3 14:20:11 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:20:11 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Translation to French alt processes Message-ID: <001001cb0327$e0d897d0$a289c770$@com> Hi list, Can a French list member translate to French the following process names? Cyanotype Gum bichromate Platinum/palladium Gum over platinum/palladium Gum over cyanotype Many thanks John. -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 19:25:00 From payral at gmail.com Thu Jun 3 14:32:53 2010 From: payral at gmail.com (Philippe Ayral) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:32:53 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Translation to French alt processes In-Reply-To: <001001cb0327$e0d897d0$a289c770$@com> References: <001001cb0327$e0d897d0$a289c770$@com> Message-ID: Ther is not a big difference between French and English in that cases Cyanotype (same) Gomme bichromat?e Platine/Palladium Gomme sur platine/palladium Gomme sur cyanotype 2010/6/3 John Brewer > Hi list, > > > > Can a French list member translate to French the following process names? > > > > Cyanotype > > Gum bichromate > > Platinum/palladium > > Gum over platinum/palladium > > Gum over cyanotype > > > > Many thanks > > > > John. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 > 19:25:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > -- Philippe Ayral http://pagesperso-orange.fr/payral/ From viapiano at pacbell.net Thu Jun 3 14:35:26 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:35:26 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: Trevor, Those are beautiful...thanks for sharing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Cunningham" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:16 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] I use white vinegar in my initial development AND my final wash (I've found a second bath prevents run-off stains and saves me the task of erasing those with a q-tip and baking soda). I've posted a few current images. I've tried to make the colors as true as possible to the prints, hopefully that translates on your monitors. The flowers were all printed on Strathmore (a paper I'm finding I like more and more), and the landscape was printed on Bienfang Ph Neutral. The latter failed to clear in the highlights, and actually soaked almost through the paper (I was laying it on a little thick). This prompted me to try a size...I threw some gesso on there and, while it did nothing for the staining, gave me a sandy quality I am absolutely smitten with. Diane, if we have opportunity to meet up this month, I'll show you one if you like. I have a few more to make before I hop on the plane next week. The website is here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ ding dangdong wrote: > Hello Loris and all, > > In a recent 8-day printing frenzy of cyanotype gumovers and tricolors, > (for a show of only 13 prints; ugh!) My two most reliable friends were > 'vinaigre d alcool' and my wife's hair dryer. I use the vinegar to > pre-acidify full sheets of Fabriano Artistico and 10 sheets of smaller (30 > x 30cm) indian handmade paper i found at sennelier here in Paris. Dont > know if im doing it right but out of laziness or maybe i read it here > sometime ago, i decided to consider the 'preshrinking presoak' done at > this stage. also pour 2 cups of it to 5 liters of water in the > development when i desire to keep more of the blues in the scale and omit > it when i want more to wash off giving me more latitude for the gum > layers. In that time span, (May 21 - 28) weather here > got funky with extreme > changes, raining hard and humid one day then 30 degrees of glorious > sunhsine the following. I wasted three parent sheets at one point in this > print run because i can't figure out why im getting very dark violet stain > in areas mostly in the highlights. My thoughts were 1) overexposing too > much 2) uneven coating 3) contaminated or mistake in my chemical mix 4) > fogging 5) humidity. > It was then that i remembered Loris' advice on printing bone dry that i > used the hair dryer and went a little more careful in keeping things at a > constant. Im working under time (and supplies running short) pressure so > you can imagine how relieved i was when the problem went away. Again, I > thank the list for the rescue and specially Loris for this one!!! > > p.s. For European list members The indian paper i found gave me the > deepest blue and very wide tonal range i have experienced with trad > cyanotype almost like what i get with cyanotype 2. And bonus is i dont > even have to acidify!!! code is 'SP3 2W 3. pochete de papier indien blanc. > pur chiffon'. link: > http://www.magasinsennelier.com/papier/p_monde.html#pinde > p.s.2 apologies for my pained attempt at writing english. Its not my > native language neither French. > Ding > > --- En date de : Jeu 3.6.10, Loris Medici > a ?crit : > > De: Loris Medici > Objet: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > ?: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" > > Date: Jeudi 3 juin 2010, 9h08 > > My advice would be that you: > Humidify before coating, coat, wait until no surface sheen is visible (3-5 > minutes depending on paper and environment), thoroughly force dry with > heat > (both front and back sides, until paper's literallty/practically bone > dry), > wave the paper few times until it isn't hot anymore (don't overdo it since > it immediately starts to suck moisture from the air and do it in a > consistent manner), quickly put the paper in the printing frame sealing > the > back with mylar or similar > impermeable material and expose. (Naturally, the > exposure times will increase significantly due decreased sensitivity, but > once determined it's very consistent - in every RH levels...) > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Loris Medici > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 9:59 AM > To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' > Subject: RE: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > Diana, > > All processes that use FAC are somehow problematic in the department of > getting "in" the paper. You need relaxed (humid - not wet!) paper while > coating, to have the sensitizer effectively soak in the paper. You don't > need damp paper while exposing (if you aren't going for the shortest > possible exposure time, that is...), actually, damp/humid paper during > exposure is a problem with processes that have FAC sensitizer; since > negatives tend to stick to the paper and/or negatives peel the > topmost > fibers from the paper giving extra grainy / fibrous tones... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of > Diana Bloomfield > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:01 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > Hmm . . . that's so odd. I really have to humidify my papers (for > cyanotype)-- literally holding both sides of the paper in the steam, until > the paper actually feels somewhat damp, for cyanotype to work for me-- no > matter what paper I use. Otherwise, the emulsion just comes right off in > the water. That's why I'm so surprised that humidity would be the issue. > Maybe > it's just weird water up there, full of weird toxic stuff. :0 > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Thu Jun 3 14:35:56 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 07:35:56 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] References: <28180.96376.qm@web26007.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <58AF2FA64D974DEC9EC3A1A7A25848CB@dell4600> Ding, Let's see some of your work! p ----- Original Message ----- From: "ding dangdong" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:37 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] Yes Loris, I know should have kept following the 'keep everything constant' mantra. I think it applies to almost all the processes as well not only for cyanotype. But im either such a lazybone or just enjoy and thrive in unpredictable results. It for me, and many others im sure, makes this creative exercises PLAY. Its sunny again here. I hope its the same for you and the rest of the good people here on the list! Ding --- En date de : Jeu 3.6.10, Loris Medici a ?crit : De: Loris Medici Objet: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] ?: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Date: Jeudi 3 juin 2010, 14h14 Happy for you Ding! I work that way since day #1, according to what I had read in Christopher James' book... After a little experience, I realized it's indeed the best workflow for cyanotype. Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of ding dangdong Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:58 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] ... It was then that i remembered Loris' advice on printing bone dry that i used the hair dryer and went a little more careful in keeping things at a constant. Im working under time (and supplies running short) pressure so you can imagine how relieved i was when the problem went away. Again, I thank the list for the rescue and specially Loris for this one!!! p.s. For European list members The indian paper i found gave me the deepest blue and very wide tonal range i have experienced with trad cyanotype almost like what i get with cyanotype 2. And bonus is i dont even have to acidify!!! code is 'SP3 2W 3. pochete de papier indien blanc. pur chiffon'. link: http://www.magasinsennelier.com/papier/p_monde.html#pinde _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Thu Jun 3 14:35:49 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 15:35:49 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Translation to French alt processes In-Reply-To: References: <001001cb0327$e0d897d0$a289c770$@com> Message-ID: <001f01cb032a$11109400$3331bc00$@com> Thank-you Phillipe John. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Ayral Sent: 03 June 2010 15:33 To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Translation to French alt processes Ther is not a big difference between French and English in that cases Cyanotype (same) Gomme bichromat?e Platine/Palladium Gomme sur platine/palladium Gomme sur cyanotype 2010/6/3 John Brewer > Hi list, > > > > Can a French list member translate to French the following process names? > > > > Cyanotype > > Gum bichromate > > Platinum/palladium > > Gum over platinum/palladium > > Gum over cyanotype > > > > Many thanks > > > > John. > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 > 19:25:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > -- Philippe Ayral http://pagesperso-orange.fr/payral/ _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 19:25:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 19:25:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2914 - Release Date: 06/02/10 19:25:00 From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 3 15:48:41 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 18:48:41 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: Ditto! I like the first one best... Are those made with brown FAC? Regards, Loris. 2010/6/3 Paul Viapiano : > Trevor, > > Those are beautiful...thanks for sharing. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Cunningham" > > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:16 AM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] > > ... > The website is > here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Thu Jun 3 21:23:48 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:23:48 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] In-Reply-To: References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> Loris Indeed they are...it's very interesting how the emulsion goes from baby poop brown to blue. Paul, thanks for the nod as well. Loris Medici wrote: > Ditto! I like the first one best... Are those made with brown FAC? > > Regards, > Loris. > > 2010/6/3 Paul Viapiano : > >> Trevor, >> >> Those are beautiful...thanks for sharing. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Cunningham" >> >> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 5:16 AM >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: cyanotype [Triangle] >> >> ... >> The website is >> here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From viapiano at pacbell.net Thu Jun 3 23:43:34 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:43:34 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] New tricolor gum References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Hi all... After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! Paul From kthayer at pacifier.com Fri Jun 4 00:46:16 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 17:46:16 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Message-ID: <5DE922A8-DD4D-492F-B6D3-D389EF99FF05@pacifier.com> Very nice, Paul. On Jun 3, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi all... > > After a lot of work and help from so many people here and > elsewhere, I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an > original photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! > > The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and > unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). > > The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a > preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into > reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ > > Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 4 01:23:42 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 21:23:42 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Wow-- your printing is really nice here, Paul-- deep rich colors and beautiful whites-- (and all unsized?!). I love the image itself, too-- such wonderful texture and detail, and all that symmetry. Nicely done! Diana On Jun 3, 2010, at 7:43 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi all... > > After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, > I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original > photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! > > The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and > unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). > > The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a > preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into > reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ > > Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jrlarimer at gmail.com Fri Jun 4 01:34:29 2010 From: jrlarimer at gmail.com (Jim Larimer) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 19:34:29 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Message-ID: Well done, Paul! On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Paul, > > Wow-- your printing is really nice here, Paul-- deep rich colors and > beautiful whites-- (and all unsized?!). I love the image itself, too-- such > wonderful texture and detail, and all that symmetry. Nicely done! > > Diana > > On Jun 3, 2010, at 7:43 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > > Hi all... >> >> After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I >> finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph in >> density, contrast and color. Yay! >> >> The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and unshrunk, >> three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). >> >> The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a >> preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into reluctant >> submission ;-) using pushpins. >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ >> >> Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Fri Jun 4 03:50:56 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 06:50:56 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Message-ID: <4C087820.3060605@chalkjockeys.com> Excellent job! This process is my goal. Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi all... > > After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I > finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph > in density, contrast and color. Yay! > > The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and > unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). > > The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a > preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into > reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ > > Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From mail at loris.medici.name Fri Jun 4 05:06:29 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:06:29 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Message-ID: <66B91CA7408C4B178C981D30E35052E2@altinyildiz.trk> Kudos Paul! Very nice. It's interesting that the first tricolor gum that satistfied me was a similar subject and also with paper negatives... (You also were using paper negatives, right?) Which pigments are those? Regards, Loris. P.S. The blue is a little bit on the heavy handed side (overall) don't you think? -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Paul Viapiano Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:44 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] New tricolor gum Hi all... After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! Paul From viapiano at pacbell.net Fri Jun 4 05:25:36 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 22:25:36 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com><751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> <66B91CA7408C4B178C981D30E35052E2@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Loris, This time I used Arista OHP with a very similar negative as my pt/pd work. The pigments are all Daniel Smith: Cad Yellow Light, Quinacridone Rose, Phthalo Blue RS and Formulary gum 1:1 exposed with a NuArc. Yes, the blue is a bit heavy. I overexposed it because my blue layer always develops in half the time of my other colors, but it seems that the soft press paper hangs on to it much better than hot press, at least that's my guess. Also, I think I could cut the red exposure time by about 10-20%. So, I think the yellow and cyan could be equal, but cut the red. I'll be trying this on the next print. Thanks to everyone for your feedback...it is much appreciated! Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:06 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum > Kudos Paul! Very nice. > > It's interesting that the first tricolor gum that satistfied me was a > similar subject and also with paper negatives... (You also were using > paper > negatives, right?) > > Which pigments are those? > > Regards, > Loris. > > P.S. The blue is a little bit on the heavy handed side (overall) don't you > think? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of > Paul Viapiano > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 2:44 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] New tricolor gum > > Hi all... > > After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I > finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph in > density, contrast and color. Yay! > > The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and unshrunk, > three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). > > The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a > preshrink, > but I registered from the middle and teased it into reluctant submission > ;-) > using pushpins. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ > > Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Fri Jun 4 08:08:44 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 09:08:44 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> Message-ID: <005b01cb03bd$26ca3740$745ea5c0$@com> Very well done Paul, no mean feat. John. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Paul Viapiano Sent: 04 June 2010 00:44 To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] New tricolor gum Hi all... After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! Paul _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 07:25:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 07:25:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2915 - Release Date: 06/03/10 07:25:00 From dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr Fri Jun 4 09:34:28 2010 From: dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr (ding dangdong) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 09:34:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <005b01cb03bd$26ca3740$745ea5c0$@com> Message-ID: <737978.12097.qm@web26002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Indeed! I'm liking it so much that it makes me wonder now if my avoidance of color fidelity in gum is because i like what Hamish Stewart describes as 'freeform gum' or i'm simply intimidated by the challenge. Paul, i just saw your post asking for some work samples. I have some old ones uploaded also in Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/ginawin/3661601207/in/set-72157620588330570/ It was last year's print but my choice of images and crude printing methods have not changed much...ugggh...? I will upload some tricolors soon, thanks for the prodding!!! Ding --- En date de?: Ven 4.6.10, John Brewer a ?crit?: De: John Brewer Objet: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum ?: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Date: Vendredi 4 juin 2010, 10h08 Very well done Paul, no mean feat. John. From donsbryant at gmail.com Fri Jun 4 14:08:12 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 10:08:12 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2190E9693CED47098AF5CF65F8D9B268@TravlinHP> Paul, > Hi all... After a lot of work and help from so many people here and elsewhere, I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an original photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ The pigments are all Daniel Smith: Cad Yellow Light, Quinacridone Rose, Phthalo Blue RS > Nice work Paul! Seems like I recall other gummists using those colors. :) Don From bsinger at sasktel.net Fri Jun 4 14:43:08 2010 From: bsinger at sasktel.net (Barry Singer) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 08:43:08 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Some beautiful autochromes and other old alt photos Message-ID: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> Dear list I recommend this site and in particular this exhibit. http://citynoise.org/article/10598 Barry From viapiano at pacbell.net Fri Jun 4 15:10:49 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 08:10:49 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: (no subject) References: <2190E9693CED47098AF5CF65F8D9B268@TravlinHP> Message-ID: <8F6927E8F7F4402DAB966D7194724E3A@dell4600> Absolutely...we build on the backs of giants! Paul > > Seems like I recall other gummists using those colors. :) > > Don From smieglitz at gmail.com Fri Jun 4 18:48:17 2010 From: smieglitz at gmail.com (Joseph Smigiel) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 14:48:17 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Some beautiful autochromes and other old alt photos In-Reply-To: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> References: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> Message-ID: Those are sweet. Thanks for the link. Joe On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Barry Singer wrote: > Dear list > > I recommend this site and in particular this exhibit. > > http://citynoise.org/article/10598 > > Barry > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca Sat Jun 5 02:09:31 2010 From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca (Peter Friedrichsen) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 22:09:31 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: New tricolor gum In-Reply-To: <5DE922A8-DD4D-492F-B6D3-D389EF99FF05@pacifier.com> References: <936777.4790.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4C079D18.60200@chalkjockeys.com> <4C081D64.1080402@chalkjockeys.com> <751FA3F1A5AF4CE7835C2ECCEEB1516F@dell4600> <5DE922A8-DD4D-492F-B6D3-D389EF99FF05@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Not always easy to get such high saturation and clean whites, especially without any additional sizing. The gum gremlins must have taken the day off. Well done! Peter >On Jun 3, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > >>Hi all... >> >>After a lot of work and help from so many people here and >>elsewhere, I finally made a tricolor that is very close to an >>original photograph in density, contrast and color. Yay! >> >>The image is 9" x 13.5" on Fabriano EW soft press, unsized and >>unshrunk, three layers only (yellow-magenta-blue). >> >>The image was really too large to be brave enough to do without a >>preshrink, but I registered from the middle and teased it into >>reluctant submission ;-) using pushpins. >> >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4667167861/ >> >>Thanks to all here, and hoping I can repeat this in the future! >> >>Paul >>_______________________________________________ >>Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sat Jun 5 14:44:37 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 10:44:37 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: DEAR LORIS, You should have kept the ammonium chloride to make either salt or albumen prints! ;-)) CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Loris Medici Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:49 AM To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype I experienced a similar funny incident too: I had put a half-full container of 35% (strong!) HCl in the closet near a - half full, again - bottle of 25% (strong!) ammonia. When I opened the closet few weeks later, everywhere was messed up with a white powder! (Ammonium chloride that is...) Eventually, both the ammonia and HCl bottles were leaking small amnt. of gas. The top of HCl bottle - near and around the cap - was surrounded with ammonium chloride, indicating ammonia was evaporating faster than HCl. As the result, I meticulously cleaned the closet, secured the caps and separated the bottles. (This is in a new house, I was keeping both bottles outside in the balcony at my old place. Unfortunately I don't have a balcony in the new house...) Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Christina Anderson Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:37 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype I have to tell another funny. BTW the chemistry is definitely not contaminated. BUT listen to this speaking of contamination: We had a row of prints hanging in the one darkroom. I mixed a tray of ammonia for bleaching and tea toning (100ml household ammonia for 1 liter). I went out of the room, came back, and the FUMES from the ammonia had changed all the prints hanging and still wet to lavender (not the dry ones)!!! It was really pretty hilarious. So whenever I think I have seen EVERYTHING under the sun with alt, something else like this comes along. Try it!! It's really a lovely purple. Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5168 (20100603) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From mail at loris.medici.name Sat Jun 5 17:52:29 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 20:52:29 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Yes, but I already have about 1kg of pure ammonium chloride - therefore I just dumped the "contaminated" stuff... ;) 2010/6/5 BOB KISS : > DEAR LORIS, > ? ? ? ?You should have kept the ammonium chloride to make either salt or > albumen prints! ?;-)) From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Sun Jun 6 20:07:07 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 23:07:07 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> I've added some images to that cyanotype section of a page which remains in development. My biggest problem right now is controlling how evenly the emulsion is spread. I'm using foam brushes (I know them as brushes used for wood stain) because I can't find a quality brush to save my life here. However, the problem with these is controlling the amount of solution that gets on the page. I have a series of brushes to remove the excess...this does the trick, in part, and produces interesting inconsistencies in the prints, however I'm seeking greater consistency. Can anyone recommend a good brush? I've used hake before and those just slopped solution everywhere...wasn't very impressed (I found foam better for some reason). I remember someone on this list speaking of something along the lines of a squeegee (I know glass rod is a bust for me). Ideas? Has anyone ever tried make-up sponges? The growing collection is here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ From frangst at gmail.com Sun Jun 6 20:51:30 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 16:51:30 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? In-Reply-To: <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: Trevor, I think that one must consider the paper, light sensitive emulsion and brush together. For my vdb's on the kozo unryu paper I find that the foam brush works wonderfully. For a palladium on old Crane's Cover, I've found that the coating rod with the paper taped to a sheet of thick glass works best. I know some people here are using the Magic Brush from Bostick and Sullivan. For gum I use a couple of brushes, usually a high quality Hake brush to coat on the gum mixture and then a cheaper Hake with a metal ferrule as a finishing brush on Rives BFK sized with PVA (which I coat on with a foam brush). -francis -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From viapiano at pacbell.net Sun Jun 6 21:24:41 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 14:24:41 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Another tricolor... References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> Hi everyone... I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and neutrals in it with one basic color to test for casts, etc. I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone in further. Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW soft press... http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ Paul From ender100 at aol.com Sun Jun 6 21:32:01 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 16:32:01 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> Message-ID: Great! Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:24 PM, "Paul Viapiano" wrote: > Hi everyone... > > I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and > neutrals in it with one basic color to test for casts, etc. > > I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone in > further. > > Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW soft > press... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jseigel at panix.com Sun Jun 6 22:06:35 2010 From: jseigel at panix.com (Judy Seigel) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> Message-ID: I haven't been able to reply to a list message for several weeks now... I haven't as far as I know changed any settings (& I assume if I typed address in by hand instead of clicking "reply" it would)... but I wonder if anyone has an idea why I get this: ================================================================== QUOTE: The "browser could not find the host server for the provided address. * Did you make a mistake when typing the domain? (e.g. ww.mozilla.org instead of www.mozilla.org) * Are you certain this domain address exists? Its registration may have expired. * Are you unable to browse other sites? Check your network connection and DNS server settings. * Is your computer or network protected by a firewall or proxy? Incorrect settings can interfere with Web browsing. ================================================================= [as noted, the address is directly copied, so I figure the domain *exists*... etc.] another one I get is (for instance): "www.flickr.com could not be found. Please check the name and try again." ================================================================ etc. etc. etc. (ZTerm sometimes gets cranky, but to date has performed....) Judy On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi everyone... > > I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and neutrals in it > with one basic color to test for casts, etc. > > I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone in further. > > Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW soft press... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From earlj at comcast.net Sun Jun 6 22:08:28 2010 From: earlj at comcast.net (Earl and Patty Johnson) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 17:08:28 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? In-Reply-To: <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <2F7C9AAE-A40B-42D2-B194-F964F6B906F7@comcast.net> Why do you say the glass rod is a bust? I have always gotten my best coating of any low-viscocity alt process sensitizer with a glass rod. I found a surplus store that sells 60 inch lengths of half inch diameter solid glass rods, and I have made many different lengths. I tape the sheets to glass, and then use a baby syringe to put down a bead of the right amount, and I get very uniform results 99 times out of a hundred. I learned the technique from reading Mike Ware's website, and I don't know if I still follow it to the letter. In any case, it didn't take me long to get the hang of it. My other favorite method is the Jack Richeson 9010 Signature Series brush, which moves the sensitizer around most delicately and uniformly, and does not soak up more than a miniscule amount. Earl Johnson On Jun 6, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > I've added some images to that cyanotype section of a page which remains in development. My biggest problem right now is controlling how evenly the emulsion is spread. I'm using foam brushes (I know them as brushes used for wood stain) because I can't find a quality brush to save my life here. However, the problem with these is controlling the amount of solution that gets on the page. I have a series of brushes to remove the excess...this does the trick, in part, and produces interesting inconsistencies in the prints, however I'm seeking greater consistency. Can anyone recommend a good brush? I've used hake before and those just slopped solution everywhere...wasn't very impressed (I found foam better for some reason). I remember someone on this list speaking of something along the lines of a squeegee (I know glass rod is a bust for me). Ideas? Has anyone ever tried make-up sponges? The growing collection is here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sun Jun 6 22:46:43 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:46:43 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> Message-ID: DEAR JUDY, Good to "read" from you. I was about to kawl you because I noticed that you hadn't posted for a while. CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Judy Seigel Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 6:07 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... I haven't been able to reply to a list message for several weeks now... I haven't as far as I know changed any settings (& I assume if I typed address in by hand instead of clicking "reply" it would)... but I wonder if anyone has an idea why I get this: ================================================================== QUOTE: The "browser could not find the host server for the provided address. * Did you make a mistake when typing the domain? (e.g. ww.mozilla.org instead of www.mozilla.org) * Are you certain this domain address exists? Its registration may have expired. * Are you unable to browse other sites? Check your network connection and DNS server settings. * Is your computer or network protected by a firewall or proxy? Incorrect settings can interfere with Web browsing. ================================================================= [as noted, the address is directly copied, so I figure the domain *exists*... etc.] another one I get is (for instance): "www.flickr.com could not be found. Please check the name and try again." ================================================================ etc. etc. etc. (ZTerm sometimes gets cranky, but to date has performed....) Judy On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi everyone... > > I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and neutrals in it > with one basic color to test for casts, etc. > > I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone in further. > > Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW soft press... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5177 (20100606) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 6 23:09:04 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:09:04 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> Message-ID: <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> This one is also really nice, Paul. I can't believe you're getting such whites with no sizing. Impressive. Also, I love the rich blue in this one, too-- as I did in the other (and didn't think the blue in your first one was too blue, or too saturated-- at all.) Diana On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi everyone... > > I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and > neutrals in it with one basic color to test for casts, etc. > > I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone in > further. > > Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW soft > press... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 6 23:15:19 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:15:19 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? In-Reply-To: <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <2405174B-440E-453D-BC99-94AC3981A91F@bellsouth.net> Hi Trevor, I use the Richeson 9000 series flat brush, though I do think it's ridiculously expensive. Jerry's has them online, though not in the Raleigh store. I've found some at Jerry's (at the store) that I really like-- for anything but platinum (where I do think the Richeson brush seems to work the best)-- that are so much less expensive than that and work really well. I'm out of town, so I don't have my brushes in front of me to tell you what it is, but I got them all there. So when you're home, go out there to Jerry's and take a look at what they have. I personally feel the foam brushes, while pretty helpful in teaching a workshop, soak up too much emulsion and have a tendency to coat unevenly (for me, anyway). Diana On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > I've added some images to that cyanotype section of a page which > remains in development. My biggest problem right now is controlling > how evenly the emulsion is spread. I'm using foam brushes (I know > them as brushes used for wood stain) because I can't find a quality > brush to save my life here. However, the problem with these is > controlling the amount of solution that gets on the page. I have a > series of brushes to remove the excess...this does the trick, in > part, and produces interesting inconsistencies in the prints, > however I'm seeking greater consistency. Can anyone recommend a good > brush? I've used hake before and those just slopped solution > everywhere...wasn't very impressed (I found foam better for some > reason). I remember someone on this list speaking of something along > the lines of a squeegee (I know glass rod is a bust for me). Ideas? > Has anyone ever tried make-up sponges? The growing collection is > here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Sun Jun 6 23:39:44 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 16:39:44 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <245DC79E4DF942D29BDFFFBE3AA2AA46@dell4600> Thanks all... Diana, could it be that because I am not preshrinking, more of the original size is protecting the paper? I'll have to try a preshrink and keep all else exactly the same and see what yields. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Bloomfield" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 4:09 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > This one is also really nice, Paul. I can't believe you're getting such > whites with no sizing. Impressive. Also, I love the rich blue in this > one, too-- as I did in the other (and didn't think the blue in your first > one was too blue, or too saturated-- at all.) > > Diana > On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > >> Hi everyone... >> >> I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and neutrals >> in it with one basic color to test for casts, etc. >> >> I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone in >> further. >> >> Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW soft >> press... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Mon Jun 7 00:33:46 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 17:33:46 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com> I have to agree with Diana about the blues, in fact I meant to comment on that before in response to a comment on the earlier one you posted but have been buried in a project and just didn't get to it. It's dangerous of course to draw firm conclusions about color cast from an electronic reproduction, but I saw no blue cast in that picture (the bricks and doorways) at all; if there was a cast I'd say it had a very slight magenta cast, but not enough to be concerned about. If the blue were too strong, the bricks in the middle couldn't have been the saturated orange that they are but would be much more neutralized, unsaturated, as a result of the blue neutralizing the orange. I love the deep rich colors in both prints; you're doing just fine. On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > This one is also really nice, Paul. I can't believe you're getting > such whites with no sizing. Impressive. Also, I love the rich > blue in this one, too-- as I did in the other (and didn't think the > blue in your first one was too blue, or too saturated-- at all.) > > Diana > On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > > >> Hi everyone... >> >> I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and >> neutrals in it with one basic color to test for casts, etc. >> >> I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone >> in further. >> >> Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW >> soft press... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 7 01:26:21 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 21:26:21 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <245DC79E4DF942D29BDFFFBE3AA2AA46@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> <245DC79E4DF942D29BDFFFBE3AA2AA46@dell4600> Message-ID: <0197A4D7-8913-48A7-B166-F5BCA1E07DCD@bellsouth.net> Hi Paul, Yes-- absolutely. I've used Fabriano before (is that what you said you were using?) without sizing and without preshrinking-- and it was perfect for the first coat; pretty good for the second; and then, for me, all hell seemed to break loose with that 3rd coat. I did switch to using Rives some time ago, and I changed the order of the pigments I put down, too (which I feel does make a difference), plus I figured out some other problems I was having-- so maybe I'll go back and try the Fabriano again, without the pre-shrinking and sizing, to see how it goes. I've used the Rives without pre-shrinking, and that seems to work pretty well up to a point. At larger sizes, I had more of a registration problem. Anyway, I really like the images you've shown-- and the printing. Diana On Jun 6, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Thanks all... > > Diana, could it be that because I am not preshrinking, more of the > original size is protecting the paper? > > I'll have to try a preshrink and keep all else exactly the same and > see what yields. > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Bloomfield" > > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 4:09 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > >> This one is also really nice, Paul. I can't believe you're >> getting such whites with no sizing. Impressive. Also, I love the >> rich blue in this one, too-- as I did in the other (and didn't >> think the blue in your first one was too blue, or too saturated-- >> at all.) >> >> Diana >> On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >> >>> Hi everyone... >>> >>> I thought I'd try another tricolor that had a lot of white and >>> neutrals in it with one basic color to test for casts, etc. >>> >>> I was pretty happy with the results, and it will help me to hone >>> in further. >>> >>> Once again, unsized, unshrunk (smaller image this time) Fab EW >>> soft press... >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4676426612/ >>> >>> Paul >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 7 06:31:10 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 09:31:10 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? In-Reply-To: <2405174B-440E-453D-BC99-94AC3981A91F@bellsouth.net> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <2405174B-440E-453D-BC99-94AC3981A91F@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <9CCB192DFC544B028E713488A63FFD3E@altinyildiz.trk> Very nice (and way cheaper - relatively that is) brushes that work well for me are the DaVinci 5080 series. I use the 30 size (30mm / ~1 1/6") for small prints and 50 size ( 50mm / ~2") for larger ones. See image here: http://cdn.dickblick.com/items/053/66/05366-OB3ww-l.jpg See prices here (DickBlick): http://www.dickblick.com/products/da-vinci-cosmotop-spin-brushes When the brush is moist (not wet!), you can coat with exactly the same amnt. of sensitizer as glass rods, it's that good. A note about glass rods: IME, a supporting paper between the glass and the sheet that is going to be coated works better than plain glass only... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Diana Bloomfield Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 2:15 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? Hi Trevor, I use the Richeson 9000 series flat brush, though I do think it's ridiculously expensive. Jerry's has them online, though not in the Raleigh store. I've found some at Jerry's (at the store) that I really like-- for anything but platinum (where I do think the Richeson brush seems to work the best)-- that are so much less expensive than that and work really well. I'm out of town, so I don't have my brushes in front of me to tell you what it is, but I got them all there. So when you're home, go out there to Jerry's and take a look at what they have. I personally feel the foam brushes, while pretty helpful in teaching a workshop, soak up too much emulsion and have a tendency to coat unevenly (for me, anyway). Diana From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 7 06:37:29 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 09:37:29 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <2405174B-440E-453D-BC99-94AC3981A91F@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: BTW, Trevor, those are US prices for an European product; I can get them for less here in Istanbul... -----Original Message----- From: Loris Medici [mailto:mail at loris.medici.name] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 9:31 AM To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' Subject: RE: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? Very nice (and way cheaper - relatively that is) brushes that work well for me are the DaVinci 5080 series. I use the 30 size (30mm / ~1 1/6") for small prints and 50 size ( 50mm / ~2") for larger ones. See image here: http://cdn.dickblick.com/items/053/66/05366-OB3ww-l.jpg See prices here (DickBlick): http://www.dickblick.com/products/da-vinci-cosmotop-spin-brushes When the brush is moist (not wet!), you can coat with exactly the same amnt. of sensitizer as glass rods, it's that good. A note about glass rods: IME, a supporting paper between the glass and the sheet that is going to be coated works better than plain glass only... Regards, Loris. From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 7 07:21:25 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 10:21:25 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600><836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> Well, Paul knows it better for sure (both in terms of the original scene and how he wanted to depict it), but my comment about (a little strong) blue was based on the pavement - which I presume is concrete. Here in Turkey (and wherever I have visited in Europe) concrete is usually neutral gray, can't speak for the States... I completely agree with the below comments that both prints are well done / beautiful and that Paul is doing pretty well. (I like better #2...) Best regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Katharine Thayer Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:34 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... I have to agree with Diana about the blues, in fact I meant to comment on that before in response to a comment on the earlier one you posted but have been buried in a project and just didn't get to it. It's dangerous of course to draw firm conclusions about color cast from an electronic reproduction, but I saw no blue cast in that picture (the bricks and doorways) at all; if there was a cast I'd say it had a very slight magenta cast, but not enough to be concerned about. If the blue were too strong, the bricks in the middle couldn't have been the saturated orange that they are but would be much more neutralized, unsaturated, as a result of the blue neutralizing the orange. I love the deep rich colors in both prints; you're doing just fine. On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > ... > Also, I love the rich blue in this one, too-- as I did in the > other (and didn't think the blue in your first one was too blue, > or too saturated-- at all.) From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 7 11:25:37 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 07:25:37 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600><836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com> <8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Hi Loris, I went back and looked at the image; I see what you mean, but because the upper part of the image is so light (bright white at the top), and it seems to gradually darken as you get to the lower part of the image, my thought was that there was a shadow cast on the sidewalk, which would give that concrete gray a somewhat blue cast. So, on my screen, it all looked very natural to me. Either way, as you way-- they are beautiful images and really well done. Diana On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > Well, Paul knows it better for sure (both in terms of the original > scene and > how he wanted to depict it), but my comment about (a little strong) > blue was > based on the pavement - which I presume is concrete. Here in Turkey > (and > wherever I have visited in Europe) concrete is usually neutral gray, > can't > speak for the States... > > I completely agree with the below comments that both prints are well > done / > beautiful and that Paul is doing pretty well. (I like better #2...) > > Best regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On > Behalf Of > Katharine Thayer > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:34 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > I have to agree with Diana about the blues, in fact I meant to > comment on > that before in response to a comment on the earlier one you posted > but have > been buried in a project and just didn't get to it. It's dangerous of > course to draw firm conclusions about color cast from an electronic > reproduction, but I saw no blue cast in that picture (the bricks and > doorways) at all; if there was a cast I'd say it had a very slight > magenta > cast, but not enough to be concerned about. If the blue were too > strong, > the bricks in the middle couldn't have been the saturated orange > that they > are but would be much more neutralized, unsaturated, as a result of > the blue > > neutralizing the orange. I love the deep rich colors in both > prints; you're doing just fine. > > > On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > >> ... >> Also, I love the rich blue in this one, too-- as I did in the >> other (and didn't think the blue in your first one was too blue, >> or too saturated-- at all.) > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Mon Jun 7 15:05:41 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 08:05:41 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600><836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com> <8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Well, interesting the assumptions we base our judgments on. I was assuming the pavement and doorsill were stone, which often has a slight blue cast, especially in the States where slabs that size (even on the west coast) are most often cut from Pennsylvania bluestone. But even concrete generally has a slight blue cast in shadow, so I wasn't concerned about the slight blue in the pavement; that seemed natural to me. After reading Loris's comment about the image being heavy-handed on blue, I downloaded the picture into photoshop and played with adjusting the color curves. Adjusting the blue or red curve even a tiny bit to less blue or less cyan just shifted the image to a yellow or red cast in the image, suggesting to me that the blue/cyan layer was fine as it was, whereas adjusting the green curve to very slightly less magenta made the image more neutral overall. And looking at individual CMY values in areas I thought should be neutral, like the doorsills, gave values that were skewed toward M, not C. Not a totally scientific way to judge the color cast of a print, but enough to satisfy me that I could trust my eye when it saw no blue or cyan cast in the image. "Heavy-handed" is a pretty strongly negative term; I probably wouldn't use the term "heavy-handed" to refer to the color balance of a tricolor gum even if there were a strong and unmistakable cast, rendering the yellows as green, the oranges as grey and the reds as purple; I'd probably just say the print had a strong color bias. As I said, I do see a slight magenta cast, but so slight that it isn't really even worth mentioning, and I never would have mentioned it except in response to the "heavy-handed" comment about the blue. I'm glad to read that in spite of the criticism, Loris does think that the print was well-done. On Jun 7, 2010, at 4:25 AM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Loris, > > I went back and looked at the image; I see what you mean, but > because the upper part of the image is so light (bright white at > the top), and it seems to gradually darken as you get to the lower > part of the image, my thought was that there was a shadow cast on > the sidewalk, which would give that concrete gray a somewhat blue > cast. So, on my screen, it all looked very natural to me. Either > way, as you way-- they are beautiful images and really well done. > > Diana > > On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:21 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > > >> Well, Paul knows it better for sure (both in terms of the original >> scene and >> how he wanted to depict it), but my comment about (a little >> strong) blue was >> based on the pavement - which I presume is concrete. Here in >> Turkey (and >> wherever I have visited in Europe) concrete is usually neutral >> gray, can't >> speak for the States... >> >> I completely agree with the below comments that both prints are >> well done / >> beautiful and that Paul is doing pretty well. (I like better #2...) >> >> Best regards, >> Loris. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On >> Behalf Of >> Katharine Thayer >> Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 3:34 AM >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... >> >> I have to agree with Diana about the blues, in fact I meant to >> comment on >> that before in response to a comment on the earlier one you >> posted but have >> been buried in a project and just didn't get to it. It's >> dangerous of >> course to draw firm conclusions about color cast from an electronic >> reproduction, but I saw no blue cast in that picture (the bricks and >> doorways) at all; if there was a cast I'd say it had a very >> slight magenta >> cast, but not enough to be concerned about. If the blue were too >> strong, >> the bricks in the middle couldn't have been the saturated orange >> that they >> are but would be much more neutralized, unsaturated, as a result >> of the blue >> >> neutralizing the orange. I love the deep rich colors in both >> prints; you're doing just fine. >> >> >> On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: >> >> >>> ... >>> Also, I love the rich blue in this one, too-- as I did in the >>> other (and didn't think the blue in your first one was too blue, >>> or too saturated-- at all.) >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From fdanb at aol.com Mon Jun 7 17:08:13 2010 From: fdanb at aol.com (Dan Burkholder) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 13:08:13 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Some beautiful autochromes and other old alt photos In-Reply-To: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> References: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> Message-ID: <6B9BA6F7-93C0-4E74-BE3B-90A73CA12A2A@aol.com> Barry, Gosh those are wonderful images! Thanks so much for the link. Dan info at DanBurkholder.com www.DanBurkholder.com On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Barry Singer wrote: > Dear list > > I recommend this site and in particular this exhibit. > > http://citynoise.org/article/10598 > > Barry > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Mon Jun 7 18:09:12 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 12:09:12 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Richmond, Virginia Message-ID: <1FA32A24-46C7-494A-B611-DB8895029219@montana.net> Anyone know of any alt going on in Richmond VA the week after July 4th? Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 7 18:16:05 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:16:05 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600> <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net> <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com> <8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Thank you very much for the elaborate clarification Katharine. I'm sure Paul got what I had meant... Regards, Loris. 2010/6/7 Katharine Thayer : > Well, interesting the assumptions we base our judgments on. > ... From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 7 18:26:34 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:26:34 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Richmond, Virginia In-Reply-To: <1FA32A24-46C7-494A-B611-DB8895029219@montana.net> References: <1FA32A24-46C7-494A-B611-DB8895029219@montana.net> Message-ID: <9CBE11D2-3617-4919-A6AC-140CDE66FC90@bellsouth.net> Hi Chris, Don't know of anything alt, specifically, but 1708 Gallery has a current show going with several artists-- though I think only one photographer(?)-- but it's Willie Anne Wright, who is showing some Lumen prints. I think this show is on through the 4th. And another gallery in Richmond, Reynolds Gallery, is worth checking out. Again, not sure of anything alt going on right now, but they do represent Sally Mann, so possibly worth visiting. And if you're going to be there, you could check out VCU to see if anything specific is going on. Their photography program is really strong (though active in alt processes, I don't know). Diana On Jun 7, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Anyone know of any alt going on in Richmond VA the week after July > 4th? > > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Mon Jun 7 18:39:30 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:39:30 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600><836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net><929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com><8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: <4353018F138C4FC18A41BD6DF7635DC9@dell4600> Thanks everyone for all the comments... But regarding casts and true color, etc...I mean, geez, these are only jpgs here, taken with a digital camera and white-balanced to match the actual print as best I can, and the print is going to look a little different than the online representation. But that being said, my online reps are pretty dang close. Oh, and don't forget that hardly any browsers (maybe Safari) recognize color profiles in individual photographs, therefore will render in a default sRGB mode. Even if you convert to that mode in PS, and a few other esoteric twists, your photograph will NEVER look the same online as your original does in PS....but let's not even enter that can of worms ;-) p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:16 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > Thank you very much for the elaborate clarification Katharine. > > I'm sure Paul got what I had meant... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > 2010/6/7 Katharine Thayer : >> Well, interesting the assumptions we base our judgments on. >> ... > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Mon Jun 7 19:05:14 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 12:05:14 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <4353018F138C4FC18A41BD6DF7635DC9@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600><836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net><929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com><8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> <4353018F138C4FC1 8A41BD6DF7635DC9@dell4600> Message-ID: <4BA2AABC-5D7E-42F4-A904-492F38A5E8C1@pacifier.com> No disagreement here, in fact that's what I said, that one shouldn't draw conclusions about color cast from an electronic reproduction. I was simply responding to the criticism that the image had a blue cast, which I don't think is a valid criticism; I sure don't see any blue cast there. Is all I was sayin.' On Jun 7, 2010, at 11:39 AM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Thanks everyone for all the comments... > > But regarding casts and true color, etc...I mean, geez, these are > only jpgs here, taken with a digital camera and white-balanced to > match the actual print as best I can, and the print is going to > look a little different than the online representation. But that > being said, my online reps are pretty dang close. > > Oh, and don't forget that hardly any browsers (maybe Safari) > recognize color profiles in individual photographs, therefore will > render in a default sRGB mode. Even if you convert to that mode in > PS, and a few other esoteric twists, your photograph will NEVER > look the same online as your original does in PS....but let's not > even enter that can of worms ;-) > > p > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" > > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> > Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:16 AM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > > >> Thank you very much for the elaborate clarification Katharine. >> >> I'm sure Paul got what I had meant... >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> >> 2010/6/7 Katharine Thayer : >> >>> Well, interesting the assumptions we base our judgments on. >>> ... >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From kthayer at pacifier.com Mon Jun 7 21:35:28 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:35:28 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Some beautiful autochromes and other old alt photos In-Reply-To: <6B9BA6F7-93C0-4E74-BE3B-90A73CA12A2A@aol.com> References: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> <6B9BA6F7-93C0-4E74-BE3B-90A73CA12A2A@aol.com> Message-ID: I was amused by some of the comments from people who obviously knew nothing about autochromes, insisting that they must be handcolored black and white images. Very nice indeed, thanks for the link. Autochromes never fail to amaze me. kt On Jun 7, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Dan Burkholder wrote: > Barry, > > Gosh those are wonderful images! Thanks so much for the link. > > Dan > > info at DanBurkholder.com > www.DanBurkholder.com > > On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Barry Singer wrote: > > >> Dear list >> >> I recommend this site and in particular this exhibit. >> >> http://citynoise.org/article/10598 >> >> Barry >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From frangst at gmail.com Mon Jun 7 22:04:19 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 18:04:19 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Some beautiful autochromes and other old alt photos In-Reply-To: References: <4C0910FC.10308@sasktel.net> <6B9BA6F7-93C0-4E74-BE3B-90A73CA12A2A@aol.com> Message-ID: The "prisoner in the box" image from the Mongolian set... I truly never want to get arrested in that part of the world. -francis On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 5:35 PM, Katharine Thayer wrote: > I was amused by some of the comments from people who obviously knew nothing > about autochromes, insisting that they must be handcolored black and white > images. > > Very nice indeed, thanks for the link. Autochromes never fail to amaze me. > > kt > > > > On Jun 7, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Dan Burkholder wrote: > > Barry, >> >> Gosh those are wonderful images! Thanks so much for the link. >> >> Dan >> >> info at DanBurkholder.com >> www.DanBurkholder.com >> >> On Jun 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Barry Singer wrote: >> >> >> Dear list >>> >>> I recommend this site and in particular this exhibit. >>> >>> http://citynoise.org/article/10598 >>> >>> Barry >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From gfrancophoto at gmail.com Tue Jun 8 01:41:09 2010 From: gfrancophoto at gmail.com (Greg Franco) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 18:41:09 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? References: Message-ID: For cyanotypes I have had a very good experience with the Robert Simmons brushes, specifically the 1" Sienna flat wash brush(SN55), and the 1" Sapphire brush(S55). They are very economical with the solutions and lay down a very even coat, and are much more reasonable than the Richeson brushes. For larger prints I use a Hake brush. Foam brushes seemed to be inconsistent and to nap up the paper, I know others use them successfully, so maybe its just my technique. I get them at a local art supply store, but here is a link to one of them...and at only 13.52. The larger brushes of the better makers are all pretty expensive... but I will eventually bite the bullet on a 2 or 3 inch one as well. I haven't tried a Richeson brush... so maybe there is still another level of brush greatness for me to discover.. but these ones work pretty well. http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/Brushes-and-Palette-Knives/Watercolor-Brushes/Robert-Simmons-Watercolor-Brushes/Robert-Simmons-Sienna-Short-Handle-Brushes.htm SN55 Flat Wash 1" 60856 $27.04 $13.52 IN STOCK > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 23:07:07 +0300 > From: Trevor Cunningham > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? > Message-ID: <4C0BFFEB.3080209 at chalkjockeys.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I've added some images to that cyanotype section of a page which remains > in development. My biggest problem right now is controlling how evenly > the emulsion is spread. I'm using foam brushes (I know them as brushes > used for wood stain) because I can't find a quality brush to save my > life here. However, the problem with these is controlling the amount of > solution that gets on the page. I have a series of brushes to remove the > excess...this does the trick, in part, and produces interesting > inconsistencies in the prints, however I'm seeking greater consistency. > Can anyone recommend a good brush? I've used hake before and those just > slopped solution everywhere...wasn't very impressed (I found foam better > for some reason). I remember someone on this list speaking of something > along the lines of a squeegee (I know glass rod is a bust for me). > Ideas? Has anyone ever tried make-up sponges? The growing collection is > here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ > From ender100 at aol.com Tue Jun 8 05:00:54 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (ender100 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 01:00:54 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <4353018F138C4FC18A41BD6DF7635DC9@dell4600> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net><4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net><0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk><4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com><7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600><836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net><929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com><8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk> <4353018F138C4FC18A41BD6DF7635DC9@dell4600> Message-ID: <8CCD4DEB56CE60D-1C4C-713E@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> oh go on Paul, let's see some worms! hehehehe -----Original Message----- From: Paul Viapiano To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Sent: Mon, Jun 7, 2010 1:39 pm Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... Thanks everyone for all the comments... But regarding casts and true color, etc...I mean, geez, these are only jpgs here, taken with a digital camera and white-balanced to match the actual print as best I can, and the print is going to look a little different than the online representation. But that being said, my online reps are pretty dang close. Oh, and don't forget that hardly any browsers (maybe Safari) recognize color profiles in individual photographs, therefore will render in a default sRGB mode. Even if you convert to that mode in PS, and a few other esoteric twists, your photograph will NEVER look the same online as your original does in PS....but let's not even enter that can of worms ;-) p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:16 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > Thank you very much for the elaborate clarification Katharine. > > I'm sure Paul got what I had meant... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > 2010/6/7 Katharine Thayer : >> Well, interesting the assumptions we base our judgments on. >> ... > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 8 16:05:44 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 16:05:44 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net>, , , , <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net>, <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk>, , , <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com>, , <7DD4DC4E82C146F5BBD6AF50BC3AC5F2@dell4600>, <836CA390-0232-46B3-A4A9-BEB17593C96E@bellsouth.net>, <929444DD-871C-44F2-8ADB-C0CF1239CF37@pacifier.com>, <8575B5AD187641BC85E61A531B02187F@altinyildiz.trk>, , , Message-ID: Really nice work Paul. Seems you are on a roll. You indicated that you were using Cadmium yellow. Was it a real cad yellow or just a subsitute? Marek > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Jun 8 17:07:36 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:07:36 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... References: Message-ID: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> Thanks, Marek... It's Daniel Smith Cadmium Yellow Light PY35 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marek Matusz" To: "alt photo" Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:05 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > Really nice work Paul. Seems you are on a roll. > > You indicated that you were using Cadmium yellow. Was it a real cad yellow > or just a subsitute? > > Marek > >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Tue Jun 8 18:49:55 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:49:55 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> Message-ID: <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> real cadmium On Jun 8, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Thanks, Marek... > > It's Daniel Smith Cadmium Yellow Light PY35 > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marek Matusz" > > To: "alt photo" > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:05 AM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > > >> >> Really nice work Paul. Seems you are on a roll. >> >> You indicated that you were using Cadmium yellow. Was it a real >> cad yellow or just a subsitute? >> >> Marek >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from >> your inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? >> ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Wed Jun 9 02:56:15 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 02:56:15 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> References: , <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600>, <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Paul Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a first layer? What was your registration method. For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I wonder if I am missing something by not using it. Marek > From: kthayer at pacifier.com > Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:49:55 -0700 > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > real cadmium > > > On Jun 8, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > > > Thanks, Marek... > > > > It's Daniel Smith Cadmium Yellow Light PY35 > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marek Matusz" > > > > To: "alt photo" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:05 AM > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > > > > > > >> > >> Really nice work Paul. Seems you are on a roll. > >> > >> You indicated that you were using Cadmium yellow. Was it a real > >> cad yellow or just a subsitute? > >> > >> Marek > >> > >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > >>> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from > >> your inbox. > >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? > >> ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Wed Jun 9 03:27:40 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 06:27:40 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Richmond, Virginia (What about Fairfax?) In-Reply-To: <1FA32A24-46C7-494A-B611-DB8895029219@montana.net> References: <1FA32A24-46C7-494A-B611-DB8895029219@montana.net> Message-ID: <4C0F0A2C.8060203@chalkjockeys.com> I'll be in Fairfax for a week at the end of June. Is there anything happening that week in Fairfax or DC? Christina Anderson wrote: > Anyone know of any alt going on in Richmond VA the week after July 4th? > > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From viapiano at pacbell.net Wed Jun 9 04:18:04 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 21:18:04 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... References: , <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600>, <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Yes, first layer. Registration by pushpins. p ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marek Matusz" To: "alt photo" Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 7:56 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > Paul > > Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a first > layer? What was your registration method. > > For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I wonder if > I am missing something by not using it. > > Marek > >> From: kthayer at pacifier.com >> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:49:55 -0700 >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... >> >> real cadmium >> >> >> On Jun 8, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >> >> > Thanks, Marek... >> > >> > It's Daniel Smith Cadmium Yellow Light PY35 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marek Matusz" >> > >> > To: "alt photo" >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:05 AM >> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Really nice work Paul. Seems you are on a roll. >> >> >> >> You indicated that you were using Cadmium yellow. Was it a real >> >> cad yellow or just a subsitute? >> >> >> >> Marek >> >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >>> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from >> >> your inbox. >> >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy? >> >> ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Wed Jun 9 14:27:27 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 08:27:27 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Richmond, Virginia In-Reply-To: <9CBE11D2-3617-4919-A6AC-140CDE66FC90@bellsouth.net> References: <1FA32A24-46C7-494A-B611-DB8895029219@montana.net> <9CBE11D2-3617-4919-A6AC-140CDE66FC90@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Thanks, Diana! Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 7, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Don't know of anything alt, specifically, but 1708 Gallery has a current show going with several artists-- though I think only one photographer(?)-- but it's Willie Anne Wright, who is showing some Lumen prints. I think this show is on through the 4th. And another gallery in Richmond, Reynolds Gallery, is worth checking out. Again, not sure of anything alt going on right now, but they do represent Sally Mann, so possibly worth visiting. And if you're going to be there, you could check out VCU to see if anything specific is going on. Their photography program is really strong (though active in alt processes, I don't know). > > Diana > > On Jun 7, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > >> Anyone know of any alt going on in Richmond VA the week after July 4th? >> >> Chris >> >> >> Christina Z. Anderson From jseigel at panix.com Wed Jun 9 22:54:10 2010 From: jseigel at panix.com (Judy Seigel) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 18:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: References: , <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600>, <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: > > Paul > > Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a first > layer? What was your registration method. > > For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I wonder > if I am missing something by not using it. > > Marek I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've heard so ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to mention it... If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil environmentally, so (presumably) even in small quantities shouldn't be added to .... free flowing water. (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on the list, but I've continued to hear/read about the horror of cadmium, so mention it again...) J. From viapiano at pacbell.net Wed Jun 9 23:23:17 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 16:23:17 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... References: , <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600>, <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> I'm not a pigment addict and couldn't tell you a real cad from a fake one, and all those PY PR PB numbers or whatever? Well, who knows about all that, I certainly don't. And, yes, cadmium is not a good thing for the environment. That's why it was removed from gelatin silver paper and so many other things years ago. But, like cadmium, potassium and ammonium dichromates are also devastating to the environment regardless of who tells you that they are OK or benign. So that is why none of it, cadmium or dichromate, goes down my drain. All first wash water gets bottled and all brush cleaning water along with it. None of this stuff belongs in a public drain, regardless of who tells you otherwise. Don't rely on experts. Experts said offshore underwater drilling was safe, too. Thanks, Judy, for this opportunity to get on my semi-annual soapbox. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Seigel" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: > >> >> Paul >> >> Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a first >> layer? What was your registration method. >> >> For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I wonder >> if I am missing something by not using it. >> >> Marek > > I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've heard so > ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to mention it... > > If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil environmentally, so > (presumably) even in small quantities shouldn't be added to .... free > flowing water. > > (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on the list, but > I've continued to hear/read about the horror of cadmium, so mention it > again...) > > J. > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jseigel at panix.com Wed Jun 9 23:36:01 2010 From: jseigel at panix.com (Judy Seigel) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 19:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> References: , <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600>, <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Paul Viapiano wrote: cut > But, like cadmium, potassium and ammonium dichromates are also devastating to > the environment regardless of who tells you that they are OK or benign. So > that is why none of it, cadmium or dichromate, goes down my drain. All first > wash water gets bottled and all brush cleaning water along with it. None of > this stuff belongs in a public drain, regardless of who tells you otherwise. For what it's worth I do recall that in the "old days" when Mike Ware was still on the list, he gave some explanation (which I followed then, but forget now) for why bichromate underwent some change (into Stage 3 or like that) in the exposure/development process that made it more or less OK to use... That should of course be in the archive of the list... if someone has the software (and the interest/energy) to find it... > Don't rely on experts. Experts said offshore underwater drilling was safe, > too. OK, don't *rely* on "experts", but listen to them ... they can't all be wrong... Which is to say, there IS info out there ! J. > > Thanks, Judy, for this opportunity to get on my semi-annual soapbox. > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Seigel" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > >> >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: >> >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a first >>> layer? What was your registration method. >>> >>> For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I wonder if >>> I am missing something by not using it. >>> >>> Marek >> >> I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've heard so >> ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to mention it... >> >> If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil environmentally, so >> (presumably) even in small quantities shouldn't be added to .... free >> flowing water. >> >> (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on the list, but >> I've continued to hear/read about the horror of cadmium, so mention it >> again...) >> >> J. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From dougtaylor13 at mac.com Wed Jun 9 23:44:56 2010 From: dougtaylor13 at mac.com (Doug Taylor) Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:44:56 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> Message-ID: <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> Paul, What do you do with the first wash water that gets bottled? Thanks, Doug On Jun 9, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > I'm not a pigment addict and couldn't tell you a real cad from a > fake one, and all those PY PR PB numbers or whatever? Well, who > knows about all that, I certainly don't. > > And, yes, cadmium is not a good thing for the environment. That's > why it was removed from gelatin silver paper and so many other > things years ago. > > But, like cadmium, potassium and ammonium dichromates are also > devastating to the environment regardless of who tells you that they > are OK or benign. So that is why none of it, cadmium or dichromate, > goes down my drain. All first wash water gets bottled and all brush > cleaning water along with it. None of this stuff belongs in a public > drain, regardless of who tells you otherwise. > > Don't rely on experts. Experts said offshore underwater drilling was > safe, too. > > Thanks, Judy, for this opportunity to get on my semi-annual soapbox. > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Seigel" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > >> >> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: >> >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a >>> first layer? What was your registration method. >>> >>> For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I >>> wonder if I am missing something by not using it. >>> >>> Marek >> >> I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've >> heard so ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to mention >> it... >> >> If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil environmentally, >> so (presumably) even in small quantities shouldn't be added to .... >> free flowing water. >> >> (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on the >> list, but I've continued to hear/read about the horror of cadmium, >> so mention it again...) >> >> J. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Thu Jun 10 00:05:04 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:05:04 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> Message-ID: <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> It goes to a municipal toxic disposal facility. This is my personal solution in stewardship of my community and its environment. Mike Ware explained to me about the breakdown of carcinogenic chromium in dichromates to a less harmful chromium (III) state after mixing with a reducing agent, and in that alkaline state precipitating to a pretty inert hydroxide. He also mentioned that he wouldn't opine on disposal or its ethics, if I recall. Mike reads the list and I hope he'll correct me if I have it wrong. He is an awesome member of this community and I still feel bad about my remark from several months ago in which a secondhand hearsaid comment triggered a reaction from me not seen since I moved out of the old neighborhood ;-) Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Taylor" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 4:44 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > Paul, > > What do you do with the first wash water that gets bottled? > > Thanks, Doug > > > On Jun 9, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > >> I'm not a pigment addict and couldn't tell you a real cad from a fake >> one, and all those PY PR PB numbers or whatever? Well, who knows about >> all that, I certainly don't. >> >> And, yes, cadmium is not a good thing for the environment. That's why it >> was removed from gelatin silver paper and so many other things years >> ago. >> >> But, like cadmium, potassium and ammonium dichromates are also >> devastating to the environment regardless of who tells you that they are >> OK or benign. So that is why none of it, cadmium or dichromate, goes >> down my drain. All first wash water gets bottled and all brush cleaning >> water along with it. None of this stuff belongs in a public drain, >> regardless of who tells you otherwise. >> >> Don't rely on experts. Experts said offshore underwater drilling was >> safe, too. >> >> Thanks, Judy, for this opportunity to get on my semi-annual soapbox. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Seigel" >> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... >> >> >>> >>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as a first >>>> layer? What was your registration method. >>>> >>>> For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I >>>> wonder if I am missing something by not using it. >>>> >>>> Marek >>> >>> I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've heard >>> so ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to mention it... >>> >>> If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil environmentally, so >>> (presumably) even in small quantities shouldn't be added to .... free >>> flowing water. >>> >>> (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on the list, >>> but I've continued to hear/read about the horror of cadmium, so mention >>> it again...) >>> >>> J. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Thu Jun 10 00:16:47 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:16:47 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> Message-ID: <6ABC8EC5-B8C8-41AE-8D93-B50B837773CC@pacifier.com> Bruce McEvoy's analysis: http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/pigmt6.html#toxicity On Jun 9, 2010, at 5:05 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > It goes to a municipal toxic disposal facility. > > This is my personal solution in stewardship of my community and its > environment. > > Mike Ware explained to me about the breakdown of carcinogenic > chromium in dichromates to a less harmful chromium (III) state > after mixing with a reducing agent, and in that alkaline state > precipitating to a pretty inert hydroxide. He also mentioned that > he wouldn't opine on disposal or its ethics, if I recall. > > Mike reads the list and I hope he'll correct me if I have it wrong. > He is an awesome member of this community and I still feel bad > about my remark from several months ago in which a secondhand > hearsaid comment triggered a reaction from me not seen since I > moved out of the old neighborhood ;-) > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Taylor" > > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 4:44 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > > >> Paul, >> >> What do you do with the first wash water that gets bottled? >> >> Thanks, Doug >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >> >> >>> I'm not a pigment addict and couldn't tell you a real cad from a >>> fake one, and all those PY PR PB numbers or whatever? Well, who >>> knows about all that, I certainly don't. >>> >>> And, yes, cadmium is not a good thing for the environment. >>> That's why it was removed from gelatin silver paper and so many >>> other things years ago. >>> >>> But, like cadmium, potassium and ammonium dichromates are also >>> devastating to the environment regardless of who tells you that >>> they are OK or benign. So that is why none of it, cadmium or >>> dichromate, goes down my drain. All first wash water gets >>> bottled and all brush cleaning water along with it. None of this >>> stuff belongs in a public drain, regardless of who tells you >>> otherwise. >>> >>> Don't rely on experts. Experts said offshore underwater drilling >>> was safe, too. >>> >>> Thanks, Judy, for this opportunity to get on my semi-annual soapbox. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Seigel" >>> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >>> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM >>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as >>>>> a first layer? What was your registration method. >>>>> >>>>> For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. >>>>> I wonder if I am missing something by not using it. >>>>> >>>>> Marek >>>>> >>>> >>>> I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've >>>> heard so ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to >>>> mention it... >>>> >>>> If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil >>>> environmentally, so (presumably) even in small quantities >>>> shouldn't be added to .... free flowing water. >>>> >>>> (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on >>>> the list, but I've continued to hear/read about the horror of >>>> cadmium, so mention it again...) >>>> >>>> J. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From zphoto at montana.net Thu Jun 10 02:45:15 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 20:45:15 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] platinum never a dull moment Message-ID: Question for all you platinum printers: do you ever tone platinum, and with what if you do? Never a dull moment teaching pt/pd here at Penland--first, the Heico was NOT clearing the yellow out, so a trip to the canning section of the grocery store and health food store to stock up on citric acid, which did the trick nicely. It's not like there is a photographic supply house closeby. Next, I never would have thought we would run out of developer as the first issue (thinking all along it would be the pt/pd precious metals!), but I dug up a trusty supply of vinegar and baking soda to make the sodium acetate in a pinch when the pot ox runs out. Anyone try this?? Otherwise, great bunch of students who have made over 150 gum, pt/pd, cyano, toned cyano, gum over cyano etc etc. chris christinaZanderson.com From clayh at clayharmon.com Thu Jun 10 03:03:29 2010 From: clayh at clayharmon.com (Clay Harmon Website) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:03:29 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: platinum never a dull moment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have gold toned both platinum and palladium prints using the formula that Dick Sullivan has on his website. It uses gold chloride and sodium formate, I think. The toning has to be stopped by immersion in an alkaline bath of old film or paper developer. I got some interesting results. As long as I had over 25% platinum, I got a nice coolish purple toned print. The Dmax increased as well. When I toned pure palladium prints, I got a very reddish, almost mahogany colored tone. I did not find the pure palladium prints to be very attractive. It was one of those toning sequences that demands close attention to the print. If you let it go too far, the toner would start staining the paper. Kinda of tricky, but interesting. I keep it my bag of tricks if for some reason I need a cool toned platinum print. But a gumover layer is easier to control, and can get you to the same place without the gold. On Jun 9, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Question for all you platinum printers: do you ever tone platinum, and with what if you do? > > Never a dull moment teaching pt/pd here at Penland--first, the Heico was NOT clearing the yellow out, so a trip to the canning section of the grocery store and health food store to stock up on citric acid, which did the trick nicely. It's not like there is a photographic supply house closeby. > > Next, I never would have thought we would run out of developer as the first issue (thinking all along it would be the pt/pd precious metals!), but I dug up a trusty supply of vinegar and baking soda to make the sodium acetate in a pinch when the pot ox runs out. Anyone try this?? > > Otherwise, great bunch of students who have made over 150 gum, pt/pd, cyano, toned cyano, gum over cyano etc etc. > chris > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From photographeur at nerdshack.com Thu Jun 10 04:27:30 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 00:27:30 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: platinum never a dull moment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100610042733.86DA211BA90@karen.lavabit.com> Christina wrote: >Question for all you platinum printers: do you ever tone platinum, >and with what if you do? Historically, they were often toned with gold to produce a cooler tone (dead black through purple). I often do the same, not being a particular fan of warm-tone prints. However, if you just want dead black, you can get that by adjusting the developer chemistry and temperature. Note that both are true only for pure Pt prints -- once you add Pd, you can't get dead black just with developer and you can get some strange and unattractive colors with gold toning. Best regards, etienne From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 10 06:30:17 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:30:17 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: platinum never a dull moment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34136A87A221410CB7C650CB5180665E@altinyildiz.trk> Best pt/pd toning method IMHO!... ;) -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Clay Harmon Website Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 6:03 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: platinum never a dull moment ... But a gumover layer is easier to control, and can get you to the same place without the gold. From dougtaylor13 at mac.com Thu Jun 10 11:12:10 2010 From: dougtaylor13 at mac.com (Doug Taylor) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 07:12:10 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... In-Reply-To: <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> Message-ID: <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> Appreciate the info Paul. Doug On Jun 9, 2010, at 8:05 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > It goes to a municipal toxic disposal facility. > > This is my personal solution in stewardship of my community and its > environment. > > Mike Ware explained to me about the breakdown of carcinogenic > chromium in dichromates to a less harmful chromium (III) state after > mixing with a reducing agent, and in that alkaline state > precipitating to a pretty inert hydroxide. He also mentioned that he > wouldn't opine on disposal or its ethics, if I recall. > > Mike reads the list and I hope he'll correct me if I have it wrong. > He is an awesome member of this community and I still feel bad about > my remark from several months ago in which a secondhand hearsaid > comment triggered a reaction from me not seen since I moved out of > the old neighborhood ;-) > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Taylor" > > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 4:44 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... > > >> Paul, >> >> What do you do with the first wash water that gets bottled? >> >> Thanks, Doug >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >> >>> I'm not a pigment addict and couldn't tell you a real cad from a >>> fake one, and all those PY PR PB numbers or whatever? Well, who >>> knows about all that, I certainly don't. >>> >>> And, yes, cadmium is not a good thing for the environment. That's >>> why it was removed from gelatin silver paper and so many other >>> things years ago. >>> >>> But, like cadmium, potassium and ammonium dichromates are also >>> devastating to the environment regardless of who tells you that >>> they are OK or benign. So that is why none of it, cadmium or >>> dichromate, goes down my drain. All first wash water gets bottled >>> and all brush cleaning water along with it. None of this stuff >>> belongs in a public drain, regardless of who tells you otherwise. >>> >>> Don't rely on experts. Experts said offshore underwater drilling >>> was safe, too. >>> >>> Thanks, Judy, for this opportunity to get on my semi-annual soapbox. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Seigel" >>> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM >>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Another tricolor... >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2010, Marek Matusz wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> Cadmium is a very intense and opaque yellow. Did you use it as >>>>> a first layer? What was your registration method. >>>>> >>>>> For oil painting you can not substitute it with anything else. I >>>>> wonder if I am missing something by not using it. >>>>> >>>>> Marek >>>> >>>> I speak here beyond my area of expertise, but re something I've >>>> heard so ioften and on such authority, I feel compelled to >>>> mention it... >>>> >>>> If that IS real *cadmium,* it's pernicious & evil >>>> environmentally, so (presumably) even in small quantities >>>> shouldn't be added to .... free flowing water. >>>> >>>> (This has in the past been replied to as OK, benign, etc. on the >>>> list, but I've continued to hear/read about the horror of >>>> cadmium, so mention it again...) >>>> >>>> J. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From donsbryant at gmail.com Thu Jun 10 12:29:16 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 08:29:16 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Toning Platinum/Palladium Prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Chris, > Question for all you platinum printers: do you ever tone platinum, and with what if you do? > That's called a gum over palladium ... :) AFAIK no precious metal can be used to tone platinum prints; perhaps palladium could be toned with platinum or some heavier metal like iridium. Don From frangst at gmail.com Thu Jun 10 15:37:49 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:37:49 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Toning Platinum/Palladium Prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think Chris James discusses an artist toning (cooling) the image with lead oxalate (in the sensitizer, I believe). Then there is uranium.... -francis On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Don Bryant wrote: > Chris, > > > > Question for all you platinum printers: do you ever tone platinum, and > with > what if you do? > > > > That's called a gum over palladium ... :) > > AFAIK no precious metal can be used to tone platinum prints; perhaps > palladium could be toned with platinum or some heavier metal like iridium. > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 10 17:56:33 2010 From: ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net (Eric Neilsen) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 12:56:33 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Toning Platinum/Palladium Prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008301cb08c6$445b44d0$cd11ce70$@net> Chris, I prefer to achieve desired color with coating mixture and developers. I had done some toning with platinum to intensify the image and a little gold on several occasions, but for the most part doing it with coating solutions, humidity of paper at time of exposure and developer is my path. Eric Neilsen 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 Let's Talk Photography www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of francis schanberger Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:38 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Toning Platinum/Palladium Prints I think Chris James discusses an artist toning (cooling) the image with lead oxalate (in the sensitizer, I believe). Then there is uranium.... -francis On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 8:29 AM, Don Bryant wrote: > Chris, > > > > Question for all you platinum printers: do you ever tone platinum, and > with > what if you do? > > > > That's called a gum over palladium ... :) > > AFAIK no precious metal can be used to tone platinum prints; perhaps > palladium could be toned with platinum or some heavier metal like iridium. > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Sat Jun 12 16:50:41 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 09:50:41 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] another new gum... References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> Message-ID: <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two offerings... http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ Have a great weekend everyone! Paul From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sat Jun 12 17:37:43 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 13:37:43 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600><1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> Message-ID: DEAR PAUL, This gum is really lovely! Do you realize your last name means "street map"? Or it could also mean "flat street". Do you know which? CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Paul Viapiano Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:51 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] another new gum... Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two offerings... http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ Have a great weekend everyone! Paul _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5192 (20100612) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From viapiano at pacbell.net Sat Jun 12 17:40:15 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:40:15 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600><1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com><7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> Message-ID: I like "quiet (or soft) way"... ;-) Thanks, Bob! ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB KISS" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:37 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... > DEAR PAUL, > > This gum is really lovely! > > Do you realize your last name means "street map"? Or it could also mean > "flat street". Do you know which? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf > Of > Paul Viapiano > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:51 PM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] another new gum... > > > > Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two > > offerings... > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ > > > > Have a great weekend everyone! > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5192 (20100612) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sat Jun 12 18:06:09 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:06:09 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600><1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com><7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> Message-ID: DEAR PAUL, That also. Interesting that piano has so many shades of meaning. I recall when I was about 12, my brother was trying to teach me chess and he introduced me to an opening called the "Gioco Piano"...the (deceptively) "quiet game". Well, it started quietly but, as Tina Turner said, "My husband, Ike, and I never do anything soft and slow! We may start soft and slow, but we finish hard and fast!" CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Paul Viapiano Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 1:40 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... I like "quiet (or soft) way"... ;-) Thanks, Bob! ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB KISS" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:37 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... > DEAR PAUL, > > This gum is really lovely! > > Do you realize your last name means "street map"? Or it could also mean > "flat street". Do you know which? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf > Of > Paul Viapiano > Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 12:51 PM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] another new gum... > > > > Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two > > offerings... > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ > > > > Have a great weekend everyone! > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5192 (20100612) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5192 (20100612) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Sat Jun 12 22:33:03 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:33:03 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> Message-ID: <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Hey Paul, Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much better. Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but I also thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. I think this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that always makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote is for the other way. :) Diana On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two > offerings... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ > > Have a great weekend everyone! > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From keith.gerling at gmail.com Sun Jun 13 14:12:22 2010 From: keith.gerling at gmail.com (Keith Gerling) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:12:22 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this does. I like the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer handling would have turned to mud. On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: > Hey Paul, > > Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much better. > Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but I also > thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. I think > this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that always > makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more > "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote is for the > other way. :) > > Diana > > > On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > > Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >> offerings... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >> >> Have a great weekend everyone! >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 13 17:15:48 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 13:15:48 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some wonderful gum prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually cross that fine line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) open to various "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be evoked if printed differently, but I can see this image printed both richer and darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without evolving into muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and seemingly "perfect" as this one. On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: > Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this does. > I like > the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer > handling > would have turned to mud. > > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < > dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> Hey Paul, >> >> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much >> better. >> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but I >> also >> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. I >> think >> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that >> always >> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more >> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote >> is for the >> other way. :) >> >> Diana >> >> >> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >> >> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >>> offerings... >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >>> From keith.gerling at gmail.com Sun Jun 13 20:49:02 2010 From: keith.gerling at gmail.com (Keith Gerling) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:49:02 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Diana, I find the sky in this work to be incredibly rich and complete. Maybe its a difference in monitors or something, but I really cannot visualize this picture any "richer" w/o being cloying. On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Diana Bloomfield < dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: > Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some wonderful gum > prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually cross that fine > line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) open to various > "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be evoked if > printed differently, but I can see this image printed both richer and > darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without evolving into > muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and seemingly > "perfect" as this one. > > > > On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: > > Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this does. I like >> the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer >> handling >> would have turned to mud. >> >> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >> Hey Paul, >>> >>> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much better. >>> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but I also >>> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. I think >>> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that >>> always >>> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more >>> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote is for >>> the >>> other way. :) >>> >>> Diana >>> >>> >>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >>> >>> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >>> >>>> offerings... >>>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Sun Jun 13 21:01:30 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:01:30 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: References: , <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600>, <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com>, , , <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600>, <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com>, <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600>, <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com>, <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600>, <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net>, , , Message-ID: Paul, This picture does not work for me on a few levels. First the narrative: a sunny and beautiful blue sky and a dark blue cast of the foregrand reminescent of a passing thunderstorm. The story just braks down and does not engage. >From the gum standpoint I do not think you went far enough with your pictorialism. This picture just begs for further manupulation. If you were to make the middle band a different hue by brushing wet cyan layer off it would provide nice visual separation between the sky and the dark foreground. I have to say that this picture is havily biased towards cyan and to me it is problematic. Perhaps two separate cyan layers would be better: one for sky, which is rendered so nicely and one for the hills. Gum offers endless possibilities and this picture has so much potential. Thanks for opening yourself to feedback. It just makes my day looking at somebody elses gums. Marek > Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:49:02 -0500 > From: keith.gerling at gmail.com > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... > > Diana, > > I find the sky in this work to be incredibly rich and complete. Maybe its > a difference in monitors or something, but I really cannot visualize this > picture any "richer" w/o being cloying. > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Diana Bloomfield < > dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: > > > Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some wonderful gum > > prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually cross that fine > > line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) open to various > > "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be evoked if > > printed differently, but I can see this image printed both richer and > > darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without evolving into > > muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and seemingly > > "perfect" as this one. > > > > > > > > On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: > > > > Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this does. I like > >> the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer > >> handling > >> would have turned to mud. > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < > >> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> > >> Hey Paul, > >>> > >>> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much better. > >>> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but I also > >>> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. I think > >>> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that > >>> always > >>> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more > >>> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote is for > >>> the > >>> other way. :) > >>> > >>> Diana > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > >>> > >>> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two > >>> > >>>> offerings... > >>>> > >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ > >>>> > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 14 03:34:54 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:34:54 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Hi Keith, Yes, could be a difference in monitors, but I suspect we simply have an aesthetic difference-- with this particular image. I feel bad talking about Paul and his prints, as though he's somewhere in the room listening, but not allowed to respond-- but my point, really, was that I think it could be stronger with printing it differently (and without introducing muddiness or a "cloying" quality). In fact, as it stands, the bottom part of the image-- though not dark or rich-- looks muddy to me now. I like the subject matter, and even though I like the way the sky is rendered, the rest just seems to be lacking somehow.. Maybe Marek clarified it by saying that, overall, the image has a cyan cast to it. That's what it looks like to me, too. I couldn't determine what it was, except that everything seemed to look the same to me-- There wasn't that wonderful richness and definition of colors and tones that were so evident in the first prints posted. Not that every print has to be the same, but this just seem much less "accomplished" to me. How one chooses to print-- in whatever process-- should, of course, have to satisfy no one but the image-maker. But this reminds me of students I sometimes have, who will show just amazing work-- with a real eye for what makes a compelling image-- and not only that, they know how to print-- and I have to wonder what they're doing in my class in the first place. Then these same students will turn around the next week-- and show work that makes it hard to believe it's coming from the same set of eyes. My usual response is, "What in the hell were you thinking with this?" (Though I typically say that in a much nicer way.) So I stand by my comment that, print-wise, this just isn't nearly as accomplished or as strong as Paul's earlier prints he posted-- at least, from my viewpoint (and how it appears on my screen). Not everything has to be the same, obviously-- but, for me, it's hard to believe the same person who made this, also made those others. The good news, Paul, is that people are so taken with your images, that you're getting responses and some actual dialogue about them. I hope you'll post more. :) Diana On Jun 13, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Keith Gerling wrote: > Diana, > > I find the sky in this work to be incredibly rich and complete. > Maybe its > a difference in monitors or something, but I really cannot visualize > this > picture any "richer" w/o being cloying. > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Diana Bloomfield < > dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: > >> Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some >> wonderful gum >> prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually cross >> that fine >> line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) open >> to various >> "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be >> evoked if >> printed differently, but I can see this image printed both richer >> and >> darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without >> evolving into >> muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and >> seemingly >> "perfect" as this one. >> >> >> >> On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: >> >> Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this does. >> I like >>> the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer >>> handling >>> would have turned to mud. >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >>> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> Hey Paul, >>>> >>>> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much >>>> better. >>>> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but >>>> I also >>>> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. >>>> I think >>>> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that >>>> always >>>> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more >>>> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote >>>> is for >>>> the >>>> other way. :) >>>> >>>> Diana >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >>>> >>>> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >>>> >>>>> offerings... >>>>> >>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >>>>> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From steelbar at shaw.ca Mon Jun 14 04:02:41 2010 From: steelbar at shaw.ca (Bruce) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 21:02:41 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: cyanotype and brushes? In-Reply-To: <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> References: <8FF19BA1-DBE8-4117-9A4E-95ECE4E2EB77@montana.net> <4BF3E30B-EC0F-4001-9AF2-58A47C1DB542@montana.net> <0762728009E54E74BFA11CA9B4B4DC8B@altinyildiz.trk> <4C0BFFEB.3080209@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <8593A593-302B-4A5F-A3E7-E2AC7AE7588A@shaw.ca> Hi Trever I have used a foam brush for years and found it worked well if I used the same method that water colour artiest use for painting sky. I tape the paper to a board that is slanted at about 25% and than start brushing the emulsion from the top. The emulsion flows down the paper to the bottom of the stroke and as you brush the next stoke it caries any excess emulsion down to the next level. When I reach the bottem of the paper I just use a small piece of cloth to draw away any excess. It takes a little practice to get the right amount of emulsion but it has worked for me. Bruce On 2010-06-06, at 1:07 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > I've added some images to that cyanotype section of a page which remains in development. My biggest problem right now is controlling how evenly the emulsion is spread. I'm using foam brushes (I know them as brushes used for wood stain) because I can't find a quality brush to save my life here. However, the problem with these is controlling the amount of solution that gets on the page. I have a series of brushes to remove the excess...this does the trick, in part, and produces interesting inconsistencies in the prints, however I'm seeking greater consistency. Can anyone recommend a good brush? I've used hake before and those just slopped solution everywhere...wasn't very impressed (I found foam better for some reason). I remember someone on this list speaking of something along the lines of a squeegee (I know glass rod is a bust for me). Ideas? Has anyone ever tried make-up sponges? The growing collection is here: http://www.chalkfoto.com/Cyanotype/ > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From ender100 at aol.com Mon Jun 14 04:18:23 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:18:23 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600> <5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com> <2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600> <54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com> <944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600> <1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com> <7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600> <3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Hey Paul, love the work you are doing and keep workin' with the gum. You have made great progress with the process! Go for what YOU WANT in your work. Best Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:34 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Keith, > > Yes, could be a difference in monitors, but I suspect we simply have > an aesthetic difference-- with this particular image. > > I feel bad talking about Paul and his prints, as though he's > somewhere in the room listening, but not allowed to respond-- but my > point, really, was that I think it could be stronger with printing > it differently (and without introducing muddiness or a "cloying" > quality). In fact, as it stands, the bottom part of the image-- > though not dark or rich-- looks muddy to me now. > > I like the subject matter, and even though I like the way the sky is > rendered, the rest just seems to be lacking somehow.. Maybe Marek > clarified it by saying that, overall, the image has a cyan cast to > it. That's what it looks like to me, too. I couldn't determine > what it was, except that everything seemed to look the same to me-- > There wasn't that wonderful richness and definition of colors and > tones that were so evident in the first prints posted. Not that > every print has to be the same, but this just seem much less > "accomplished" to me. > > How one chooses to print-- in whatever process-- should, of course, > have to satisfy no one but the image-maker. But this reminds me of > students I sometimes have, who will show just amazing work-- with a > real eye for what makes a compelling image-- and not only that, they > know how to print-- and I have to wonder what they're doing in my > class in the first place. Then these same students will turn around > the next week-- and show work that makes it hard to believe it's > coming from the same set of eyes. My usual response is, "What in > the hell were you thinking with this?" (Though I typically say > that in a much nicer way.) > > So I stand by my comment that, print-wise, this just isn't nearly as > accomplished or as strong as Paul's earlier prints he posted-- at > least, from my viewpoint (and how it appears on my screen). Not > everything has to be the same, obviously-- but, for me, it's hard to > believe the same person who made this, also made those others. > > The good news, Paul, is that people are so taken with your images, > that you're getting responses and some actual dialogue about them. > I hope you'll post more. :) > > Diana > > On Jun 13, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Keith Gerling wrote: > >> Diana, >> >> I find the sky in this work to be incredibly rich and complete. >> Maybe its >> a difference in monitors or something, but I really cannot >> visualize this >> picture any "richer" w/o being cloying. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >>> Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some >>> wonderful gum >>> prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually cross >>> that fine >>> line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) open >>> to various >>> "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be >>> evoked if >>> printed differently, but I can see this image printed both richer >>> and >>> darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without >>> evolving into >>> muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and >>> seemingly >>> "perfect" as this one. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: >>> >>> Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this >>> does. I like >>>> the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer >>>> handling >>>> would have turned to mud. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >>>> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey Paul, >>>>> >>>>> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much >>>>> better. >>>>> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, >>>>> but I also >>>>> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. >>>>> I think >>>>> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) >>>>> that >>>>> always >>>>> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more >>>>> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my >>>>> vote is for >>>>> the >>>>> other way. :) >>>>> >>>>> Diana >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >>>>> >>>>>> offerings... >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Mon Jun 14 22:16:31 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:16:31 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] two alt listers with big big big Message-ID: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net> Well, what a fun time at Penland. That place rocks. Even with three HUGE meals a day, didn't put on a pound--must be all that walking up and down hills to the darkroom to slave drive students. I thought I would share a pic or two (URL below) I took of two alt listers I managed to connect with on my way home through Asheville, heheheheh :) Monte makes 20x24" negs for contact printing platinum with this behemoth. Wow. This is DEFINITELY the case of "bigger than mine". I am not sharing incriminating pictures of smoking cigars and drinking wine with the Penland group after cleaning up the darkroom on the last day...maybe later... Almost landed on Keith Gerling and Mark Nelson's doorsteps on the way home due to thunderstorms in Chicago closing down the airport. I just love summer when school is out. Chris http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=3370 Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From ender100 at aol.com Mon Jun 14 22:24:39 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (ender100 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:24:39 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net> References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net> Message-ID: <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Hey, great shots of Sam & Sandy! Mark Nelson -----Original Message----- From: Christina Anderson To: Alt List Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 5:16 pm Subject: [alt-photo] two alt listers with big big big Well, what a fun time at Penland. That place rocks. Even with three HUGE meals a day, didn't put on a pound--must be all that walking up and down hills to the darkroom to slave drive students. I thought I would share a pic or two (URL below) I took of two alt listers I managed to connect with on my way home through Asheville, heheheheh :) Monte makes 20x24" negs for contact printing platinum with this behemoth. Wow. This is DEFINITELY the case of "bigger than mine". I am not sharing incriminating pictures of smoking cigars and drinking wine with the Penland group after cleaning up the darkroom on the last day...maybe later... Almost landed on Keith Gerling and Mark Nelson's doorsteps on the way home due to thunderstorms in Chicago closing down the airport. I just love summer when school is out. Chris http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=3370 Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From erie at shelbyvilledesign.com Mon Jun 14 22:51:28 2010 From: erie at shelbyvilledesign.com (erie patsellis) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:51:28 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net>, <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Great photos, you pics of Monte's camera is making me want to finish my 20x24, everything seems to get in my way, but this might be the summer. erie ---------------------------------------- > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:24:39 -0400 > From: ender100 at aol.com > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big > > Hey, great shots of Sam & Sandy! > > > Mark Nelson > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Christina Anderson > To: Alt List > Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 5:16 pm > Subject: [alt-photo] two alt listers with big big big > > > Well, what a fun time at Penland. That place rocks. Even with three HUGE meals > a day, didn't put on a pound--must be all that walking up and down hills to the > darkroom to slave drive students. > > I thought I would share a pic or two (URL below) I took of two alt listers I > managed to connect with on my way home through Asheville, heheheheh :) Monte > makes 20x24" negs for contact printing platinum with this behemoth. Wow. This is > DEFINITELY the case of "bigger than mine". > > I am not sharing incriminating pictures of smoking cigars and drinking wine with > the Penland group after cleaning up the darkroom on the last day...maybe > later... > > Almost landed on Keith Gerling and Mark Nelson's doorsteps on the way home due > to thunderstorms in Chicago closing down the airport. > > I just love summer when school is out. > Chris > > http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=3370 > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview From zphoto at montana.net Mon Jun 14 22:55:46 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:55:46 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net>, <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> The camera was a work of art, however I would be unable to lift it--I think it weighed 50lb and was quite bulky to pick up. The lens was what blew me away even more. It sure took beautiful images, and made me realize how dependent an image is on the lens (spoken from one who just bought the Nikon rectilinear 14mm to do indoor house photography for an upcoming project). The lens gives a....(poor term) whooshy effect in the background. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 14, 2010, at 4:51 PM, erie patsellis wrote: > > Great photos, you pics of Monte's camera is making me want to finish my 20x24, everything seems to get in my way, but this might be the summer. > > > erie > > ---------------------------------------- >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 18:24:39 -0400 >> From: ender100 at aol.com >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big >> >> Hey, great shots of Sam & Sandy! >> >> >> Mark Nelson >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Christina Anderson >> To: Alt List >> Sent: Mon, Jun 14, 2010 5:16 pm >> Subject: [alt-photo] two alt listers with big big big >> >> >> Well, what a fun time at Penland. That place rocks. Even with three HUGE meals >> a day, didn't put on a pound--must be all that walking up and down hills to the >> darkroom to slave drive students. >> >> I thought I would share a pic or two (URL below) I took of two alt listers I >> managed to connect with on my way home through Asheville, heheheheh :) Monte >> makes 20x24" negs for contact printing platinum with this behemoth. Wow. This is >> DEFINITELY the case of "bigger than mine". >> >> I am not sharing incriminating pictures of smoking cigars and drinking wine with >> the Penland group after cleaning up the darkroom on the last day...maybe >> later... >> >> Almost landed on Keith Gerling and Mark Nelson's doorsteps on the way home due >> to thunderstorms in Chicago closing down the airport. >> >> I just love summer when school is out. >> Chris >> >> http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=3370 >> >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! > http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 15 06:22:48 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:22:48 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net>, <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com> <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> Message-ID: <9D7E1609323D4259BB59B5F6C5CBA319@altinyildiz.trk> Hi Christina, Not that beautiful (and showy) as those old portrait lenses, but, lensbabies also give a similar effect (due severe astigmatism?) it you like it... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Christina Anderson Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:56 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big ... The lens was what blew me away even more. It sure took beautiful images, and made me realize how dependent an image is on the lens (spoken from one who just bought the Nikon rectilinear 14mm to do indoor house photography for an upcoming project). The lens gives a....(poor term) whooshy effect in the background. ... From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Tue Jun 15 07:11:27 2010 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:11:27 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> References: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> Message-ID: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Hi Chris, I think you are referring to the swirl effect caused by a Petzval lens. Rather that repeating what I know I found this site which nicely sums it up, and a few examples, and I believe one of the images is made by Joe Smigiel http://www.lightcafe.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14378 Best, Cor > The lens was what blew me away even more. It sure took beautiful images, > and made me realize how dependent an image is on the lens (spoken from one > who just bought the Nikon rectilinear 14mm to do indoor house photography > for an upcoming project). The lens gives a....(poor term) whooshy effect > in the background. > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > From smieglitz at gmail.com Tue Jun 15 13:04:23 2010 From: smieglitz at gmail.com (Joseph Smigiel) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 09:04:23 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> References: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: <5A631E52-E59B-4843-B964-071D21867C54@gmail.com> Oh. You mean the "typical naked-chick-in-the-woods-surrounded-by- petzval-swirl shot" suggestive of my 'midwestern "sensibility" at work.' Sheesh. Never even saw her or her freaky long arm. I was there to do some "waterfall-in-woods-surrounded-by-trees-and-craggy-rocks" photographs, but the weather wasn't clearing so I took what I could get. Sigh. If only there had been a moose or goat in the background instead. Just as well, I suppose. I was out of platinum anyway. Tough crowd. Joe On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:11 AM, wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I think you are referring to the swirl effect caused by a Petzval > lens. > Rather that repeating what I know I found this site which nicely > sums it > up, and a few examples, and I believe one of the images is made by Joe > Smigiel > > http://www.lightcafe.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14378 > > Best, > > Cor > >> The lens was what blew me away even more. It sure took beautiful > images, >> and made me realize how dependent an image is on the lens (spoken >> from > one >> who just bought the Nikon rectilinear 14mm to do indoor house > photography >> for an upcoming project). The lens gives a....(poor term) whooshy > effect >> in the background. >> Chris >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Tue Jun 15 13:08:24 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:08:24 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> References: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: Yes! That's it! The swirl wasn't as drastic or distracting as in some of the images on that website, but very intriguing. I have never studied lenses much, except when I am about to buy one I'll research new ones (35mm, medium format, and 4x5 only) but never historic lenses. It reminds me of Julia Margaret Cameron's work. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:11 AM, wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I think you are referring to the swirl effect caused by a Petzval lens. > Rather that repeating what I know I found this site which nicely sums it > up, and a few examples, and I believe one of the images is made by Joe > Smigiel > > http://www.lightcafe.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=14378 > > Best, > > Cor > >> The lens was what blew me away even more. It sure took beautiful > images, >> and made me realize how dependent an image is on the lens (spoken from > one >> who just bought the Nikon rectilinear 14mm to do indoor house > photography >> for an upcoming project). The lens gives a....(poor term) whooshy > effect >> in the background. >> Chris >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Tue Jun 15 15:02:45 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:02:45 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net>, <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com><56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> <9D7E1609323D4259BB59B5F6C5CBA319@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 11:22 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big > Hi Christina, > > Not that beautiful (and showy) as those old portrait > lenses, but, lensbabies > also give a similar effect (due severe astigmatism?) it > you like it... > > Regards, > Loris. > The "swirl" effect in the photos is strange looking. It may be due to some defect in the lens but it looks more like a digital effect. Petzval lenses are actually pretty good, their limit is having a narrow field of view. Petzval lenses are still used as projection lenses where the a wide coverage angle is generally not necessary. Most soft focus lenses make use of uncorrected spherical aberration. Spherical is not dependant on image angle, that is, its the same all over the image. One effect of SA is that highlights have soft haloes around them. Cooke Triplet type lenses are often used for soft focus especially where it is desired to have it adjustable. That is because the spherical aberration is strongly dependant on the spacing of the center element. By making it variable the softness can be adjusted. Most other soft focus lenses are just undercorrected and rely on the f/stop to vary the amount of SA. SA varies with the stop becoming smaller as the stop is made smaller. Some other aberrations, notably chromatic aberration have been employed in some soft focus lenses but in general they are not as satisfactory as residual SA. Another common aberration is coma. Coma is similar to SA but is dependant on image angle. It results in tear-drop shaped blurs of highlights, the blur becoming worse with angle. The narrow end of the blur can point either toward or away from the image center depending on the sign of the aberration. It is usually considered an unpleasant aberration. When very severe it can give something like the swirled effect. Astigmatism in a camera lens is a different aberration from the opthalmic astigmtism. In a lens it is the difference in the focal plane between light rays entering the lens along a radius and that entering along a tangent. It has the effect of giving two points of focus for a point of light, one results in a line tangent to the optical axis and the other a line radial to the axis. the point of best focus is between these and the size of the blur spot is a measure of the amount of deviation between the two fields. Before the invention of "Jena" glass in the late 19th century it was thought impossible to produce a lens which was simultaneously corrected for astigmatism and chromatic aberration. That turned out not to be the case but it was not discovered until after the new glass types were available. Previous to this time lenses often had fairly large amounts of astigmatism and often the field was curved delibrately by the designer to average the two stigmatic fields around the focal plane. The Rapid-Rectilinear lens is an example. If stopped down enough the depth of focus will give sharp focus despite the astigmatism. Modern lenses are corrected astigmatically so that the two fields converge at the center and at some point in the field. Depending on the lens type the deviation of the two fields may be rapid or slow beyond the stigmatic point. Examples are the Goerz Dagor where the deviation is slow and the lens can have a quite wide angle by stopping down and the Goerz Dogmar or Artar where the deviation is very rapid so that the image quality becomes very bad very quickly beyond the limiting angle. BTW, the Dagor has a lot of zonal spherical aberration and has a pleasant mild soft focus effect until stopped down about two stops beyond wide open. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From smieglitz at gmail.com Tue Jun 15 15:17:41 2010 From: smieglitz at gmail.com (Joseph Smigiel) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:17:41 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big In-Reply-To: References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net>, <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com><56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> <9D7E1609323D4259BB59B5F6C5CBA319@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: <82746DD3-809B-4A48-906D-8AEA19531EE7@gmail.com> Petzvals are very sharp for the intended plate size. They are not generally soft-focus lenses although some (Dallmeyer Patent Portrait, Wollewnsak Vitax, etc.,) can exhibit varying degrees of softness by means of moving the rear elements out of their normal position relative to each other. My plate was made with a Dallmeyer 3A Patent Portrait lens which was intended for whole-plate (6.5" x 8.5") format. The ambrotype is on a piece of 10" x 12" amethyst glass so the Petzval signature swirl is apparent beyond what would be a whole-plate mechanical crop. The image would appear very sharp and without swirls on a whole-plate. Joe On Jun 15, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Richard Knoppow wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" > > To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> > Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 11:22 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: two alt listers with big big big > > >> Hi Christina, >> >> Not that beautiful (and showy) as those old portrait lenses, but, >> lensbabies >> also give a similar effect (due severe astigmatism?) it you like >> it... >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> > The "swirl" effect in the photos is strange looking. It may be > due to some defect in the lens but it looks more like a digital > effect. > Petzval lenses are actually pretty good, their limit is having a > narrow field of view. Petzval lenses are still used as projection > lenses where the a wide coverage angle is generally not necessary. > Most soft focus lenses ... > Richard Knoppow > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickburk at ix.netcom.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From smieglitz at gmail.com Tue Jun 15 15:34:35 2010 From: smieglitz at gmail.com (Joseph Smigiel) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 11:34:35 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Petzval lens example pics (was Re: two alt listers with big big big) In-Reply-To: References: <28AC893D-618A-487D-B3B3-254991E244F1@montana.net>, <8CCDA278353CE3A-2984-5A77@Webmail-m125.sysops.aol.com><56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> <9D7E1609323D4259BB59B5F6C5CBA319@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: <321E4305-E1A0-439E-8537-623EBBCB7896@gmail.com> If any one is interested in Petzval lens images, both with and without the swirl effect, there is a group on Flickr dedicated to their use: http://www.flickr.com/groups/868027 at N25/pool/ FWIW, I also have some more typical non-swirly Petzval images on my Flickr pages. The one linked below was taken with an f/3.8 16" Wollensak Vitax on a plate for which the lens was designed to cover. Hence, no swirls but very shallow depth-of-field since exposed wide- open. http://www.flickr.com/photos/smieglitz/4225703687/in/ set-72157594372195757/ Joe From ender100 at aol.com Tue Jun 15 17:11:06 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (ender100 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:11:06 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] OT: PDN & Photopolymer Gravure Workshop August 2010 New Hampshire In-Reply-To: References: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net><1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: <8CCDAC4E00435E3-1018-D4FD@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Paul Taylor of Renaissance Press and I will be offering the workshop described below this coming August. This is our second presentation of this unique workshop this year. Those who attended the first workshop were really pleased with the experience! Please Contact me OFF LIST at ender100 at aol.com if you wish to enroll or would like more information about the workshop. Thanks, Mark Photopolymer Gravure & Precision Digital Positives August 2010 With Paul Taylor of Renaissance Press & Mark Nelson of Precision Digital Negatives August 13, 14, 15, & 16, 2010 Traditional copper platephotogravure has long been recognized as a printmaking medium that producesbeautiful, rich prints prized for their unique tonalities, textures, and depth.In recent years some printmakers have been working with photopolymer platesthat are directly exposed with UV light, developed in water, and inked andprinted much like copper plates to achieve similar results in the intaglioprinting of photographs and drawings. This four day intensiveworkshop is presented by two masters of printmaking, Paul Taylor and MarkNelson, each offering students their specialized expertise in various aspectsof this process. Mark will cover the platemaking process using the double exposure method, first exposing the plate to anaquatint screen and then exposing the plate with a film positive generated fromand inkjet printer. This unique approach to the double exposure method forcreating photopolymer plates has been developed by Mark Nelson using hisPrecision Digital Negatives System. Students will learn this simple three-stepmethod of plate exposure and calibration that produces exact exposure times foraquatint and positive, the proper density for the inkjet positive and aPhotoshop adjustment curve that properly adjusts the tonal scale of the finalprint image. This approach produces plates with incredibly long tonal range(rivaling palladium), sharp detail, and very smooth prints. This methodproduces highly predictable results?no need to continue to struggle with how toproperly expose photopolymer plates! Just wait until you see what these platescan really do! Each student willreceive their own high quality Precision Digital Negatives aquatint screen touse and take home. Paul will cover theprintmaking process. This will include inks, ink preparation and conditioning,applying ink to the plate and wiping the plate. Paul will also coverprintmaking papers, preparing the paper for printing and how to finish prints.Students will learn about adjusting presses and blankets and a variety ofunique printing methods including, chine colle, oil rolls, tissue printing, andprint varnishing. Prospective students musthave a reasonable understanding of Photoshop to participate. Platemaking orprintmaking experience is not required. Images do not have to be ofphotographic origin. Students will be asked to bring Photoshop files of imagesor drawings and a laptop. A thumb drive for transferring images is alsorecommended. Housed in a remodeled 19thcentury barn on the bank of the Ashuelot River, Renaissance Press provides abeautiful setting for students to learn this exciting process. Paul Taylor is a MasterPhotogravure Plate Maker, Printer and Director of Renaissance Press. Paul'swork with early photographic process spans over thirty years of intensive workand study. He is the founder of The Rhode Island School of Design Press and hasbeen teaching photogravure at RISD since 1993. Renaissance Press Prints arecollected by Museums internationally. Artists published or produced atRenaissance include: Duane Michals, Robert Mapplethorpe, Joel Peter Witkin,Linda Connor, Robert Adams, Aaron Siskind, Roy DeCarava, Tom Baril, and manyothers. Mark Nelson is the Authorof Precision Digital Negatives for Silver and Other Alternative PhotographicProcesses. He is a photographer and prints with the beautiful Platinum& Palladium Process. Mark has now adapted his unique Precision Digital Negatives System to craftpositives for both traditional copper plate photogravure and for thephotopolymer plate gravure method. Contact: Mark Nelson atender100 at aol.com for more information and/or to enroll. Workshop Location:Renaissance Press, 2 Ashuelot Main Street. Ashuelot, New Hampshire Lodging: Lodging isconveniently located in the beautiful setting of nearby Brattleboro, Vermont.For a listing of available lodging, see: http://www.brattleborocham ber.org/visit/lodge.php From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 15 19:47:09 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 22:47:09 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: OT: PDN & Photopolymer Gravure Workshop August 2010 New Hampshire In-Reply-To: <8CCDAC4E00435E3-1018-D4FD@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> References: <56855731-5259-4FA7-BD7D-6F157F602121@montana.net> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D25@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> <8CCDAC4E00435E3-1018-D4FD@webmail-m023.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Wow!? A second photogravure workshop within 5 months timespan (if I'm not mistaking)... I'm glad that there is a high potential / interest in photogravure, plus, it seems that the participants were pleased indeed, and they've spread the word. Good luck w/ best wishes, Loris. 2010/6/15 : > > Paul Taylor of Renaissance Press and I will be offering the workshop described below this coming August. ?This is our second presentation of this unique workshop this year. ?Those who > attended the first workshop were really pleased with the experience! > > ... From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Wed Jun 16 15:23:25 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:23:25 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] OT: 'Sup with Epson Scanner Group? Message-ID: DEAR LIST, I know this is sort of off topic but, as many of us use Epson scanners to generate digital files for enlarged negs for alt printing, I hope it isn't TOO far off. I noticed that I didn't have a post from the Epson Scanner group since May 25th. When I replied to one of the posts it never came through and showed up on the list. Any idea 'Sup with that? CHEERS! BOB Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi From donsbryant at gmail.com Thu Jun 17 12:15:46 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:15:46 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] 'Sup with Epson Scanner Group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 8:00 AM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 177, Issue 1 Send Alt-photo-process-list mailing list submissions to alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo/alt-photo-process-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org You can reach the person managing the list at > I noticed that I didn't have a post from the Epson Scanner group since May 25th. When I replied to one of the posts it never came through and showed up on the list. Any idea 'Sup with that? > The last post was made May 25th. So you are up to date. You can login directly to Yahoo if you are ever in doubt. Don Bryant From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Thu Jun 17 13:09:11 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:09:11 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: 'Sup with Epson Scanner Group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: DEAR DON, Thanks, but I did log into Yahoo and I did send a post and it never showed up on the Epson list so one might surmise that the list isn't working. CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Don Bryant Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 8:16 AM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [alt-photo] 'Sup with Epson Scanner Group? -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 8:00 AM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 177, Issue 1 Send Alt-photo-process-list mailing list submissions to alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo/alt-photo-process-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org You can reach the person managing the list at > I noticed that I didn't have a post from the Epson Scanner group since May 25th. When I replied to one of the posts it never came through and showed up on the list. Any idea 'Sup with that? > The last post was made May 25th. So you are up to date. You can login directly to Yahoo if you are ever in doubt. Don Bryant _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5203 (20100617) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From donsbryant at gmail.com Thu Jun 17 16:27:56 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:27:56 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Atlantis Silversafe Photostore In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just curious if anyone knows if 'Atlantis Silversafe Photostore' paper is sold in the US? It's made by Whatman, FWIW. Thanks, Don Bryant From jarvis.photography at hotmail.co.uk Thu Jun 17 19:16:16 2010 From: jarvis.photography at hotmail.co.uk (Gareth Jarvis) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:16:16 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] preserving gum arabic solution Message-ID: I mixed up some gum arabic solution (from silverprint) 70g to 200ml distilled water and stored it in a clean brown glass bottle. To this I added 5 drops of 10% formalin I bought from ebay. It's been a few weeks and my gum smells sour and has started to grow mould. Do you have any advice on how to prevent this? Stronger fomalin/formaldehyde or more drops? Cheers This is what I used... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Buffered-Formalin-10-Preserving-Specimens-500ml-/130310573208?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item1e571d8c98 _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now From donsbryant at gmail.com Thu Jun 17 19:58:49 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 15:58:49 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A177BBF1F924B2FA866FBF9A9FFC6CC@austinpowers> > I mixed up some gum arabic solution (from silverprint) 70g to 200ml distilled water and stored it in a clean brown glass bottle. To this I added 5 drops of 10% formalin I bought from ebay. It's been a few weeks and my gum smells sour and has started to grow mould. Do you have any advice on how to prevent this? Stronger fomalin/formaldehyde or more drops? Cheers This is what I used... > As suggested to me by Sam Wang, I use a few drops of 100% thymol per liter of mixed gum. 100% thymol == 50 grams thymol crystal + 50 ml of rubbing alcohol. Leaves my gum smelling like a fresh Johnson & Johnson Band-Aid. No mould and no souring in sealed containers. Don Bryant From noisy at rogers.com Thu Jun 17 20:03:26 2010 From: noisy at rogers.com (Ian Hooper) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:03:26 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thymol has been working for me. 1 gram thymol dissolved in 5 ml alcohol. A few drops of that solution has kept a litre of gum fresh for 6 months so far (at room temp). -Ian -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Gareth Jarvis Sent: June 17, 2010 3:16 PM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [alt-photo] preserving gum arabic solution I mixed up some gum arabic solution (from silverprint) 70g to 200ml distilled water and stored it in a clean brown glass bottle. To this I added 5 drops of 10% formalin I bought from ebay. It's been a few weeks and my gum smells sour and has started to grow mould. Do you have any advice on how to prevent this? Stronger fomalin/formaldehyde or more drops? Cheers This is what I used... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Buffered-Formalin-10-Preserving-Specimens-500ml-/13031 0573208?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=it em1e571d8c98 _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/197222280/direct/01/ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Thu Jun 17 20:12:58 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:12:58 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> As another option (for the O.P.): I use sodium benzoate, 0.5 per 100g of dry gum. (I'm sure it would work well if I was using even less, but then it gets harder to weight - since I mix no more than 500-600ml of stock solution at once, therefore, I use the it in excess. No adverse effects noticed in the past 2-3 years...) Regards, Loris. On 17.Haz.2010, at 23:03, Ian Hooper wrote: > Thymol has been working for me. > > 1 gram thymol dissolved in 5 ml alcohol. > > A few drops of that solution has kept a litre of gum fresh for 6 months so > far (at room temp). > > -Ian From viapiano at pacbell.net Thu Jun 17 20:39:49 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:39:49 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> Message-ID: <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> So...what does Daniel Smith or the Formulary use in their gum for preservation? Hmmm... I just bought a gallon of DS gum. Also wondering if I should decant that into smaller containers? Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" To: ; "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:12 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution > As another option (for the O.P.): > > I use sodium benzoate, 0.5 per 100g of dry gum. (I'm sure it would work > well if I was using even less, but then it gets harder to weight - since I > mix no more than 500-600ml of stock solution at once, therefore, I use the > it in excess. No adverse effects noticed in the past 2-3 years...) > > Regards, > Loris. > > > On 17.Haz.2010, at 23:03, Ian Hooper wrote: > >> Thymol has been working for me. >> >> 1 gram thymol dissolved in 5 ml alcohol. >> >> A few drops of that solution has kept a litre of gum fresh for 6 months >> so >> far (at room temp). >> >> -Ian > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From tom at sobota.net Thu Jun 17 20:56:33 2010 From: tom at sobota.net (Tomas Sobota) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:56:33 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> Message-ID: I prepared a gallon of gum some 27 years ago, and dropped a couple of crystals of thymol in it, less than a gram. The crystals don't dissolve in the gum, but float on the surface, forming an antiseptic atmosphere. The gum has darkened considerably but is still perfectly usable. In my opinion there's nothing to gain splitting the stock in smaller recipients. Tom Sobota On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:39 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > So...what does Daniel Smith or the Formulary use in their gum for > preservation? Hmmm... > > I just bought a gallon of DS gum. Also wondering if I should decant that > into smaller containers? > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loris Medici" > To: ; "The alternative photographic processes mailing > list" > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:12 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution > > > > As another option (for the O.P.): >> >> I use sodium benzoate, 0.5 per 100g of dry gum. (I'm sure it would work >> well if I was using even less, but then it gets harder to weight - since I >> mix no more than 500-600ml of stock solution at once, therefore, I use the >> it in excess. No adverse effects noticed in the past 2-3 years...) >> >> Regards, >> Loris. >> >> >> On 17.Haz.2010, at 23:03, Ian Hooper wrote: >> >> Thymol has been working for me. >>> >>> 1 gram thymol dissolved in 5 ml alcohol. >>> >>> A few drops of that solution has kept a litre of gum fresh for 6 months >>> so >>> far (at room temp). >>> >>> -Ian >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From alt.list at albertonovo.it Fri Jun 18 05:39:51 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 07:39:51 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100618053951.19562.qmail@webmaildh2.aruba.it> > I mixed up some gum arabic solution (from silverprint) 70g to 200ml distilled water and stored it in a clean brown glass bottle. To this I added 5 drops of 10% formalin I bought from ebay. It's been a few weeks and my gum smells sour and has started to grow mould. Do you have any advice on how to prevent this? Stronger fomalin/formaldehyde or more drops? Cheers I have used a few chrystals of Sodium Azide; my gum arabic solution is still there in the refrigerator since 2001 and looks like just made. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From mail at loris.medici.name Fri Jun 18 06:17:57 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 09:17:57 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> Message-ID: The traditional preservative is mercuric chloride, I saw it listed in both W&N and Schmincke gum solutions - can't speak for DS or PF... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Paul Viapiano Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:40 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution So...what does Daniel Smith or the Formulary use in their gum for preservation? Hmmm... ... From py1hy at terra.com.br Fri Jun 18 16:49:03 2010 From: py1hy at terra.com.br (Jacques Augustowski) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:49:03 -0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution In-Reply-To: References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> Message-ID: <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> I also use mercuric chloride, no problems but toxic, take care. Jacques On 18-Jun-10 3:17 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > The traditional preservative is mercuric chloride, I saw it listed in both > W&N and Schmincke gum solutions - can't speak for DS or PF... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of > Paul Viapiano > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:40 PM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: preserving gum arabic solution > > So...what does Daniel Smith or the Formulary use in their gum for > preservation? Hmmm... > > ... > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Sun Jun 20 20:41:10 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:41:10 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> Message-ID: <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> I just walked into the local art supply place here in Raleigh (Jerry's) with what I thought was a good list and walked out even more confused. I'm looking for a good starter combo of colors for beginning with tri-color gum and caesin prints. I'd like to explore both tube paints (I think Windsor Newton is all I can buy in Riyadh, but Jerry's doesn't have Daniel Smith which is what everybody talks about here...perhaps I could order these in bulk online) and pure pigments. I was hoping people could suggest what they feel would be the most neutral starting point with respect to colors for these processes. From samwang864 at gmail.com Sun Jun 20 23:52:16 2010 From: samwang864 at gmail.com (sam wang) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:52:16 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: http://www.saci-florence.org/currentExhibitions.asp?s=25 Let's all show up and surprise her! (Hehehe - as Mark would say.) Sam Wang From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 21 01:14:12 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:14:12 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Hi Trevor, I'm sure that others who have been doing gum a lot longer than I have will jump in here, but I do use Daniel Smith. I love their Quinacridone Gold which works so well for the yellow, in my opinion. I think Katharine first mentioned that here. And I think you can't go wrong with their Deep Scarlet, which Katharine had also mentioned-- works really well for me-- and I love their Prussian Blue especially. Those are pigments that I think would get you off to a good start with gum-- but, as I said, others will probably have different suggestions that work equally well for them. I used to use W&N from Jerry's, but the Daniel Smith pigments do seem superior to me. I don't have a clue about caesin or what works best for that process. By the way, did you pick up some PVA while you were at Jerry's? Diana On Jun 20, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > I just walked into the local art supply place here in Raleigh > (Jerry's) with what I thought was a good list and walked out even > more confused. I'm looking for a good starter combo of colors for > beginning with tri-color gum and caesin prints. I'd like to explore > both tube paints (I think Windsor Newton is all I can buy in Riyadh, > but Jerry's doesn't have Daniel Smith which is what everybody talks > about here...perhaps I could order these in bulk online) and pure > pigments. I was hoping people could suggest what they feel would be > the most neutral starting point with respect to colors for these > processes. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Mon Jun 21 02:17:30 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 22:17:30 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4C1ECBBA.2000309@chalkjockeys.com> There's no seal on those bottles. There would be no way for them to make it back home to Riyadh. I almost bought a box of rabbit skin powder...I had to abort On 6/20/2010 9:14 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > By the way, did you pick up some PVA while you were at Jerry's? From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 21 02:37:22 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 22:37:22 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <4C1ECBBA.2000309@chalkjockeys.com> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> <4C1ECBBA.2000309@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <3FCCA4DA-DC4D-49B7-8343-669AB704FF83@bellsouth.net> Oh, that's too bad. I guess you'd also have had to put all that liquid into smaller 2 oz bottles-- or whatever the limit is these days-- and then stick that into the proper size plastic bag. Maybe you can just go the unsized route. Diana On Jun 20, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > There's no seal on those bottles. There would be no way for them to > make it back home to Riyadh. I almost bought a box of rabbit skin > powder...I had to abort > On 6/20/2010 9:14 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: >> By the way, did you pick up some PVA while you were at Jerry's? > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jseigel at panix.com Mon Jun 21 03:42:07 2010 From: jseigel at panix.com (Judy Seigel) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 23:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: The last time I bought Daniel Smith paint was probably 10 years ago, or possibly 15 -- but at that time you bought it by phone or mail order directly from Daniel Smith, somewhere in the far far West -- ooops, HEY ! I just found the catalog, exactly where I left it: I see it can't have been as long ago as it seems: At least they sent me "Winter and Spring Sale Catalog, 2006." And it's in Seattle. Phone 800-426-6740 Meanwhile, I join in recommending their paint. The prices (are/were) good, the colors fine, and the paint quality excellent. They probably don't send free catalogs overseas, but if you can get one, this one includes two plus pages of swatches of the colors -- small enough to squeeze in a couple of hundred, large enough to give some sense of the color. J. From jrlarimer at gmail.com Mon Jun 21 04:53:14 2010 From: jrlarimer at gmail.com (Jim Larimer) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 22:53:14 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: I agree that Daniel Smith is a great name to print with! But, I have also had very good luck with WN, Holbein, Schminke and (Gasp!) Grumbacher! I still use Grumbacher Academy Charcoal Grey as my favorite black. Here are some prints with those pigments: http://flickr.com/gp/jim_larimer/731f2S Jim On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Judy Seigel wrote: > > The last time I bought Daniel Smith paint was probably 10 years ago, or > possibly 15 -- but at that time you bought it by phone or mail order > directly from Daniel Smith, somewhere in the far far West -- ooops, HEY ! I > just found the catalog, exactly where I left it: I see it can't have been > as long ago as it seems: At least they sent me "Winter and Spring Sale > Catalog, 2006." > > And it's in Seattle. Phone 800-426-6740 > > Meanwhile, I join in recommending their paint. The prices (are/were) good, > the colors fine, and the paint quality excellent. > > They probably don't send free catalogs overseas, but if you can get one, > this one includes two plus pages of swatches of the colors -- small enough > to squeeze in a couple of hundred, large enough to give some sense of the > color. > > > J. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 21 06:53:23 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:53:23 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67CEDD6FFE284C60A07676C58AD55889@altinyildiz.trk> Congratulations for the show! :) -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of sam wang Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:52 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: ... From amyhgeorge at hotmail.com Mon Jun 21 09:46:39 2010 From: amyhgeorge at hotmail.com (Amy Holmes George) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 05:46:39 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: Thank you Sam, you are very sweet to share the news. So, I guess I will see you at the closing?! :) Ciao,Amy > From: samwang864 at gmail.com > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:52:16 -0400 > Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy > > Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > > http://www.saci-florence.org/currentExhibitions.asp?s=25 > > Let's all show up and surprise her! (Hehehe - as Mark would say.) > > Sam Wang > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 From amyhgeorge at hotmail.com Mon Jun 21 09:48:13 2010 From: amyhgeorge at hotmail.com (Amy Holmes George) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 05:48:13 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: <67CEDD6FFE284C60A07676C58AD55889@altinyildiz.trk> References: , , <67CEDD6FFE284C60A07676C58AD55889@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Thanks so much Loris!! Amy > From: mail at loris.medici.name > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:53:23 +0300 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy > > Congratulations for the show! :) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of sam > wang > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:52 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy > > Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > ... > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 From donsbryant at gmail.com Mon Jun 21 14:44:45 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:44:45 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers> Amy, > Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > Man that sounds pretty cool Amy. Wish we could all be there at the closing to celebrate. Don Bryant From donsbryant at gmail.com Mon Jun 21 17:03:09 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:03:09 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Salt printing research document. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Alters, I thought I would pass this link along to all for sharing information on salt printing. This work looks to be very seminal though I've not read it in depth. http://adt.lib.rmit.edu.au/adt/uploads/approved/adt-VIT20080901.142948/publi c/02whole.pdf This link was posted today on HybridPhoto.com. Don Bryant From ender100 at aol.com Mon Jun 21 17:08:48 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (ender100 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:08:48 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Salt printing research document. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CCDF7B8C563E55-608-1CAE@webmail-d051.sysops.aol.com> Thanks for sharing that Don! There is also a great resource at Stanford: About the Albumen Web Site -----Original Message----- From: Don Bryant To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Sent: Mon, Jun 21, 2010 12:03 pm Subject: [alt-photo] Salt printing research document. Hello Alters, I thought I would pass this link along to all for sharing information on salt printing. This work looks to be very seminal though I've not read it in depth. http://adt.lib.rmit.edu.au/adt/uploads/approved/adt-VIT20080901.142948/publi c/02whole.pdf This link was posted today on HybridPhoto.com. Don Bryant _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Mon Jun 21 17:39:07 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:39:07 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Salt printing research document. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01d901cb1168$a6e0c350$f4a249f0$@com> Thanks Don, looks interesting. John. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Don Bryant Sent: 21 June 2010 18:03 To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [alt-photo] Salt printing research document. Hello Alters, I thought I would pass this link along to all for sharing information on salt printing. This work looks to be very seminal though I've not read it in depth. http://adt.lib.rmit.edu.au/adt/uploads/approved/adt-VIT20080901.142948/publi c/02whole.pdf This link was posted today on HybridPhoto.com. Don Bryant _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2948 - Release Date: 06/21/10 07:36:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2948 - Release Date: 06/21/10 07:36:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2953 - Release Date: 06/21/10 07:36:00 From mikes1mom at comcast.net Mon Jun 21 17:53:55 2010 From: mikes1mom at comcast.net (Catherine Costolo) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:53:55 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <5437F36B-D7C7-4D83-A4CA-7C15531F69B9@comcast.net> Amy, I spend a lot of time in Florence but I am not there now so I am so sorry I will not be able to see the prints in person. I told an Italian friend who lives in Florence about your show and he plans to visit tomorrow. Congratulations! Catherine Costolo > > >> From: samwang864 at gmail.com >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:52:16 -0400 >> Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy >> >> Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double >> Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in >> Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on >> Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: >> >> http://www.saci-florence.org/currentExhibitions.asp?s=25 >> >> Let's all show up and surprise her! (Hehehe - as Mark would say.) >> >> Sam Wang >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts > with Hotmail. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From amyhgeorge at hotmail.com Mon Jun 21 20:19:02 2010 From: amyhgeorge at hotmail.com (Amy Holmes George) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:19:02 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers> References: , <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers> Message-ID: Thank you Don. Me too! Amy > From: donsbryant at gmail.com > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:44:45 -0400 > Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy > > Amy, > > > > Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > > > > Man that sounds pretty cool Amy. Wish we could all be there at the closing > to celebrate. > > Don Bryant > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 From amyhgeorge at hotmail.com Mon Jun 21 20:40:27 2010 From: amyhgeorge at hotmail.com (Amy Holmes George) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:40:27 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: <5437F36B-D7C7-4D83-A4CA-7C15531F69B9@comcast.net> References: , , , , , , <5437F36B-D7C7-4D83-A4CA-7C15531F69B9@comcast.net> Message-ID: Catherine, Thank you so much! I will actually be at the gallery tomorrow as well, so maybe I will get to meet your friend. Grazie mille,Amy > From: mikes1mom at comcast.net > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:53:55 -0400 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy > > > > Amy, I spend a lot of time in Florence but I am not there now so I am > so sorry I will not be able to see the prints in person. I told an > Italian friend who lives in Florence about your show and he plans to > visit tomorrow. Congratulations! > Catherine Costolo > > > > > > > >> From: samwang864 at gmail.com > >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > >> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:52:16 -0400 > >> Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy > >> > >> Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > >> Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > >> Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > >> Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > >> > >> http://www.saci-florence.org/currentExhibitions.asp?s=25 > >> > >> Let's all show up and surprise her! (Hehehe - as Mark would say.) > >> > >> Sam Wang > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts > > with Hotmail. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 From zphoto at montana.net Mon Jun 21 20:47:42 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:47:42 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: , <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers> Message-ID: <5694818A-3542-4EE1-B29E-BAACD1B53C86@montana.net> Amy you are such the stud-ette! Say hi to Alberto over there if you all connect! Your pt/pd prints are gorgeous! But I think you need to toot your horn a little more that you did this body of work on a FULBRIGHT with a BABY. How many rephotographers do so with a baby in tow? Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Jun 21, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Amy Holmes George wrote: > > Thank you Don. Me too! > Amy > >> From: donsbryant at gmail.com >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:44:45 -0400 >> Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy >> >> Amy, >> >>> >> Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double >> Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in >> Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on >> Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: >>> >> >> Man that sounds pretty cool Amy. Wish we could all be there at the closing >> to celebrate. >> >> Don Bryant >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Mon Jun 21 20:50:50 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:50:50 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> , <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com>, <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: This is for gum only. A classical "primary set" suggested by Bruce MacEvoy on his web site is PV19, quinacridone rose, thalo blue and PY97 (hansa yellow medium), the names are Daniel Smith brand, which is what I use. I have certainly used this triad and it works fine producing rather vivid color combinations. Now, the yellow is somewhat opaque, so llikely best if applied first. It will somewhat dull the cyan layer if applied second. There is a number of very transparent yellows that work well and I have tested them, PY110 (can't remember what Daniel Smith calls this one) and PY150 (nickel azo yellow). The last one is a very intense yellow. Prussian blue is a definite possibility as well. It is intense and transparent. It seems to give a more natural looking greens then thalo blue I have used the colours that Diana mentioned, but not exactly in her combination. A very large number of combinations of CYM pigments will work and will give you somewhat shifted colour of final print. I have tubes of W&N and Daler Rowney watercolurs and have used them as well. They work fine. I just stick with Daniel Smith as they are very consistent and offer the widest range of colours. Marek > From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:14:12 -0400 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin > > Hi Trevor, > > I'm sure that others who have been doing gum a lot longer than I have > will jump in here, but I do use Daniel Smith. I love their > Quinacridone Gold which works so well for the yellow, in my opinion. > I think Katharine first mentioned that here. And I think you can't go > wrong with their Deep Scarlet, which Katharine had also mentioned-- > works really well for me-- and I love their Prussian Blue especially. > Those are pigments that I think would get you off to a good start with > gum-- but, as I said, others will probably have different suggestions > that work equally well for them. I used to use W&N from Jerry's, but > the Daniel Smith pigments do seem superior to me. I don't have a clue > about caesin or what works best for that process. > > By the way, did you pick up some PVA while you were at Jerry's? > > Diana > > On Jun 20, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > > > I just walked into the local art supply place here in Raleigh > > (Jerry's) with what I thought was a good list and walked out even > > more confused. I'm looking for a good starter combo of colors for > > beginning with tri-color gum and caesin prints. I'd like to explore > > both tube paints (I think Windsor Newton is all I can buy in Riyadh, > > but Jerry's doesn't have Daniel Smith which is what everybody talks > > about here...perhaps I could order these in bulk online) and pure > > pigments. I was hoping people could suggest what they feel would be > > the most neutral starting point with respect to colors for these > > processes. > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 21 21:05:25 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 00:05:25 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> , <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com>, <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <30E4D5BB-524D-422F-94D0-8C12BDB92C85@loris.medici.name> Hi Marek, What about PY35? Have you used it? Could that pass over cyanotype w/o dulling it too much? (My preferred colors are the same for cyan and magenta and I'm currently using benzimidazolone yellow - which is very light and transparent but not so good for nice greens...) I'm going to try it myself but it would be nice to hear other's experience with it. TIA, Loris. On 21.Haz.2010, at 23:50, Marek Matusz wrote: > > This is for gum only. > > A classical "primary set" suggested by Bruce MacEvoy on his web site is PV19, quinacridone rose, thalo blue and PY97 (hansa yellow medium), the names are Daniel Smith brand, which is what I use. I have certainly used this triad and it works fine producing rather vivid color combinations. Now, the yellow is somewhat opaque, so llikely best if applied first. It will somewhat dull the cyan layer if applied second. There is a number of very transparent yellows that work well and I have tested them, PY110 (can't remember what Daniel Smith calls this one) and PY150 (nickel azo yellow). The last one is a very intense yellow. From donsbryant at gmail.com Mon Jun 21 21:38:39 2010 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 17:38:39 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] PY35 over cyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Loris, Cadmium yellow light is pretty opaque, better to try a more transparent yellow such as a Hansa. Don From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 22 00:39:53 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 00:39:53 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: <5694818A-3542-4EE1-B29E-BAACD1B53C86@montana.net> References: , , <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers>, , <5694818A-3542-4EE1-B29E-BAACD1B53C86@montana.net> Message-ID: Amy Just the best from another Texan. I wish I could share the exibit. Now I know why you were so frantic in your negative printing. And as we say Yeeha. Marek > From: zphoto at montana.net > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:47:42 -0500 > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy > > Amy you are such the stud-ette! Say hi to Alberto over there if you all connect! Your pt/pd prints are gorgeous! But I think you need to toot your horn a little more that you did this body of work on a FULBRIGHT with a BABY. How many rephotographers do so with a baby in tow? > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Amy Holmes George wrote: > > > > > Thank you Don. Me too! > > Amy > > > >> From: donsbryant at gmail.com > >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > >> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:44:45 -0400 > >> Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy > >> > >> Amy, > >> > >>> > >> Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > >> Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > >> Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > >> Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > >>> > >> > >> Man that sounds pretty cool Amy. Wish we could all be there at the closing > >> to celebrate. > >> > >> Don Bryant > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 From dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net Tue Jun 22 01:07:56 2010 From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:07:56 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations, Amy. I just now had a chance to look at the link Sam provided here. Your prints look beautiful, and what gorgeous place to hang them! Diana On Jun 20, 2010, at 7:52 PM, sam wang wrote: > Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > > http://www.saci-florence.org/currentExhibitions.asp?s=25 > > Let's all show up and surprise her! (Hehehe - as Mark would say.) > > Sam Wang > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Tue Jun 22 03:10:53 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:10:53 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Tri-Color Starter Colors: Gum and Caesin In-Reply-To: <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> References: <781557.98231.qm@smtp101.rog.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><869D0F83-EC16-45DA-BE9E-2B2D5A5EECF2@loris.medici.name> <227C27335D834854B50A0044501E838A@dell4600> <4C1BA37F.5040309@terra.com.br> <4C1E7CE6.2030207@chalkjockeys.com> <79CEB08F-23FD-43D7-AEC9-A7363057137C@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <13720398-830D-4BA4-BF8F-D5DD566C674C@pacifier.com> Actually, I think Keith Gerling was the one who mentioned using Quinacridone Gold for yellow; I've always been a PY110 fan myself. Not that I don't think it's a lovely idea, but just to give credit where it's due. But I do love PR 175, Deep Scarlet, and Prussian, which has always been a favorite for me for monochrome, but over the last couple of years has also become my favorite blue for tricolor. It's very transparent and also mixes nicely with other colors to make natural-looking greens and purples. On Jun 20, 2010, at 6:14 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > Hi Trevor, > > I'm sure that others who have been doing gum a lot longer than I > have will jump in here, but I do use Daniel Smith. I love their > Quinacridone Gold which works so well for the yellow, in my > opinion. I think Katharine first mentioned that here. And I think > you can't go wrong with their Deep Scarlet, which Katharine had > also mentioned-- works really well for me-- and I love their > Prussian Blue especially. Those are pigments that I think would > get you off to a good start with gum-- but, as I said, others will > probably have different suggestions that work equally well for > them. I used to use W&N from Jerry's, but the Daniel Smith > pigments do seem superior to me. I don't have a clue about caesin > or what works best for that process. > > By the way, did you pick up some PVA while you were at Jerry's? > > Diana > > On Jun 20, 2010, at 4:41 PM, Trevor Cunningham wrote: > > >> I just walked into the local art supply place here in Raleigh >> (Jerry's) with what I thought was a good list and walked out even >> more confused. I'm looking for a good starter combo of colors for >> beginning with tri-color gum and caesin prints. I'd like to >> explore both tube paints (I think Windsor Newton is all I can buy >> in Riyadh, but Jerry's doesn't have Daniel Smith which is what >> everybody talks about here...perhaps I could order these in bulk >> online) and pure pigments. I was hoping people could suggest what >> they feel would be the most neutral starting point with respect to >> colors for these processes. >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 22 05:06:12 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:06:12 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: PY35 over cyan In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0357921ACB2C4EC3B8BE1A7BE3C72C00@altinyildiz.trk> Ok, thanks. I'll use it as first layer then, only for pure tricolor gums... -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Don Bryant Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:39 AM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [alt-photo] PY35 over cyan Loris, Cadmium yellow light is pretty opaque, better to try a more transparent yellow such as a Hansa. From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Jun 22 06:35:13 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:35:13 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600><1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com><7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600><3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <58C93D3009F74DE18EE0D86911347FE0@dell4600> Hi everyone, Last week was a very busy one getting ready for our Father's Day celebration here so I wasn't able to keep up with alt list. And no, I haven't been offended or scared away ;-) I wanted to have time to respond thoughtfully. I think critique is invaluable. It's good to hear what others think and have a fresh set of eyes to view your work. If an artist truly believes in the work they're creating, it won't sway them but will, I believe, enrich his/her artmaking in other ways. I'm surprised there isn't more sharing of work here. With the prints of the cups and the doors, I was attempting to get a photorealistic print, much in the manner of Keith Taylor's incredible gums. The combination of Fabriano EW HP and Arista OHP, helped realize that intention as well as using a negative that had much more range than anything I've seen suggested here or elsewhere. The pigments matched Keith's published choices and the paper was unsized, although I did not mount the paper to aluminum sheeting or another substrate. I still have a long way to go in refining this technique to my satisfaction, but at least the seeds are there for further work. The print of the lone tree, which seemed to generate much discussion, was done differently. I wanted to print larger (13.5" square on 16x20) than I had before, so that necessitated using a paper negative, not having any 17x22 OHP at home. The neg was made with Strathmore layout paper (16 lb) and was not waxed. At that size I wasn't about to mess with wax. Since I was using a paper neg, I decided to go with Rives BFK. In my experience, paper negs can give a softer look than OHP. The Rives paper is very absorbent with much more texture than the Fabriano. Working unsized, it's always given me a very watercolor-y feel. I was looking forward to making a print with a totally different feel to it. I used Q Gold, Q Red and Phthalo Blue. I love how gum can be so many things. The variables that drive people nuts can really turn out to be its biggest strengths once sorted out. Thanks all for your comments. I hope you don't mind if I continue to post images from to time... Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Bloomfield" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:34 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... > Hi Keith, > > Yes, could be a difference in monitors, but I suspect we simply have an > aesthetic difference-- with this particular image. > > I feel bad talking about Paul and his prints, as though he's somewhere in > the room listening, but not allowed to respond-- but my point, really, > was that I think it could be stronger with printing it differently (and > without introducing muddiness or a "cloying" quality). In fact, as it > stands, the bottom part of the image-- though not dark or rich-- looks > muddy to me now. > > I like the subject matter, and even though I like the way the sky is > rendered, the rest just seems to be lacking somehow.. Maybe Marek > clarified it by saying that, overall, the image has a cyan cast to it. > That's what it looks like to me, too. I couldn't determine what it was, > except that everything seemed to look the same to me-- There wasn't that > wonderful richness and definition of colors and tones that were so > evident in the first prints posted. Not that every print has to be the > same, but this just seem much less "accomplished" to me. > > How one chooses to print-- in whatever process-- should, of course, have > to satisfy no one but the image-maker. But this reminds me of students I > sometimes have, who will show just amazing work-- with a real eye for > what makes a compelling image-- and not only that, they know how to > print-- and I have to wonder what they're doing in my class in the first > place. Then these same students will turn around the next week-- and > show work that makes it hard to believe it's coming from the same set of > eyes. My usual response is, "What in the hell were you thinking with > this?" (Though I typically say that in a much nicer way.) > > So I stand by my comment that, print-wise, this just isn't nearly as > accomplished or as strong as Paul's earlier prints he posted-- at least, > from my viewpoint (and how it appears on my screen). Not everything has > to be the same, obviously-- but, for me, it's hard to believe the same > person who made this, also made those others. > > The good news, Paul, is that people are so taken with your images, that > you're getting responses and some actual dialogue about them. I hope > you'll post more. :) > > Diana > > On Jun 13, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Keith Gerling wrote: > >> Diana, >> >> I find the sky in this work to be incredibly rich and complete. Maybe >> its >> a difference in monitors or something, but I really cannot visualize >> this >> picture any "richer" w/o being cloying. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >> >>> Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some wonderful >>> gum >>> prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually cross that >>> fine >>> line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) open to >>> various >>> "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be evoked >>> if >>> printed differently, but I can see this image printed both richer and >>> darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without evolving >>> into >>> muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and seemingly >>> "perfect" as this one. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: >>> >>> Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this does. I >>> like >>>> the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A richer >>>> handling >>>> would have turned to mud. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >>>> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey Paul, >>>>> >>>>> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so much >>>>> better. >>>>> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, but I >>>>> also >>>>> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every way. I >>>>> think >>>>> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) that >>>>> always >>>>> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more >>>>> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my vote is >>>>> for >>>>> the >>>>> other way. :) >>>>> >>>>> Diana >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >>>>> >>>>>> offerings... >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From alt.list at albertonovo.it Tue Jun 22 06:45:07 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 08:45:07 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: <5694818A-3542-4EE1-B29E-BAACD1B53C86@montana.net> References: <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers> <5694818A-3542-4EE1-B29E-BAACD1B53C86@montana.net> Message-ID: <20100622064507.13090.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> > Say hi to Alberto over there if you all connect! Your pt/pd prints are gorgeous! We met on Sunday in Venice, the day when a cold drop reached Northern Italy with a lowering of temperature, heavy rain and some tornado after it moved over France where it caused flooding. But this did not prevent to show our works each other, so I can confirm that she printed very well and she was successful to reach the same places where the vintage pictures were shot. The comparison between Alinari and contemporary shots is astonishing, because apart from some places that were bombed during the WWII or where the trees have grown, the downtown of Florence is mostly unchanged. The main change is in the amount of people in the streets (tourists!). Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From kthayer at pacifier.com Tue Jun 22 14:20:44 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 07:20:44 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... In-Reply-To: <58C93D3009F74DE18EE0D86911347FE0@dell4600> References: <00EB74527ED24B0FA65FBBDACE8AD99C@dell4600><5D0797A0-A79D-4149-AAA1-C1A311C06EEC@pacifier.com><2FE9BF3F483A44E59BFEA616AF48FB84@dell4600><54BB31ED-8BFA-4109-AC8E-4D567094D47F@mac.com><944B14FCF7AE4C3D8D6FAC3C1C6ADD69@dell4600><1D288BF7-DD0F-4D64-AEB8-19966D00B28D@mac.com><7A47723BAD964C69919238C0FE0D1807@dell4600><3BAAA1DB-6822-4CFB-9FEB-34CCF75497F6@bellsouth.net> <58C93D3009F74DE18EE0D86911347FE0@dell4600> Message-ID: <42EA0D41-FAF0-4A73-9E96-BA7E371E3D0A@pacifier.com> Hi Paul, I've been busy and preoccupied with another project and I see I never got around to commenting in this thread as I meant to, so hope you don't mind a belated addition to the thread. Looking through your gum prints on flickr while this thread was in progress, I was struck by the sense of exploration and joy in gum printing. I can relate to that, since my gum printing career has been characterized by exploration, by using gum to serve many different purposes, and of appreciation of the myriad aesthetic goals that can be achieved in gum. Some of those purposes and goals can be seen by looking through the gallery on my site, which shows some of the many different ways I've used gum to achieve a particular end. It's been my experience that some photographers don't appreciate the more painterly and printmaking uses of gum, and see anything that diverges from a very narrow idea of what a "photograph" should look like as "bad" or "wrong." This is not meant to characterize anyone commenting in this thread particularly, I'm simply reflecting back on critical, even contemptuous and derogatory, comments that have been made about my own work. I'm sure I've told the story before of a helpful person who wrote to tell me there must be something wrong with my calibration, because some of the images in my site gallery looked "right" and some didn't have "enough contrast." I smiled, wrote back and said that's the way it's supposed to be. For several years in the early "oughts" I was experimenting with high-key, low-contrast printing, for reasons both conceptual and technical. I won't bother trying to explain the conceptual reasons at the moment, but technically I was interested in the problem of generating smooth tonal gradations in the palest tones. That work was criticized on the list, was even referred in a backhanded way as "crap," which goes a little beyond constructive criticism, but the comment made no particular impression on me because the comment simply showed that the person didn't understand what I was doing and didn't know what he was talking about. Although after four or five years I moved back toward printing with more contrast again, I make no apologies for that body of work, and in fact consider some of it my best work; others must have agreed, because it was a series made during that period that was purchased for a collection that includes Jasper Johns, Robert Motherwell, Elizabeth Rothenberg and other leading 20th century printmakers. I say that, not to toot my own horn particularly, but just as a way of encouraging you to follow your own mind and heart. You have taken wonderfully to gum and are making it your own, and as you continue your practice, experimenting with different effects, you will find that you have the ability to make gum do anything you want it to do. This is a rare ability; cherish it. With best regards, Katharine On Jun 21, 2010, at 11:35 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Last week was a very busy one getting ready for our Father's Day > celebration > here so I wasn't able to keep up with alt list. And no, I haven't > been offended or scared away ;-) > > I wanted to have time to respond thoughtfully. > > I think critique is invaluable. It's good to hear what others think > and have > a fresh set of eyes to view your work. If an artist truly believes > in the > work they're creating, it won't sway them but will, I believe, enrich > his/her artmaking in other ways. I'm surprised there isn't more > sharing of > work here. > > With the prints of the cups and the doors, I was attempting to get > a photorealistic print, much in the manner of Keith Taylor's > incredible gums. The combination of Fabriano EW HP and Arista OHP, > helped realize that intention as well as using a negative that had > much more range than anything I've seen suggested here or > elsewhere. The pigments matched Keith's published choices and the > paper was unsized, although I did not mount the paper to aluminum > sheeting or another substrate. > > I still have a long way to go in refining this technique to my > satisfaction, but at least the seeds are there for further work. > > The print of the lone tree, which seemed to generate much > discussion, was done differently. I wanted to print larger (13.5" > square on 16x20) than I had before, so that necessitated using a > paper negative, not having any 17x22 OHP at home. The neg was made > with Strathmore layout paper (16 lb) and was not waxed. At that > size I wasn't about to mess with wax. > > Since I was using a paper neg, I decided to go with Rives BFK. In > my experience, paper negs can give a softer look than OHP. The > Rives paper is very absorbent with much more texture than the > Fabriano. Working unsized, it's always given me a very watercolor-y > feel. I was looking forward to making a print with a totally > different feel to it. I used Q Gold, Q Red and Phthalo Blue. > > I love how gum can be so many things. The variables that drive > people nuts can really turn out to be its biggest strengths once > sorted out. > > Thanks all for your comments. I hope you don't mind if I continue > to post images from to time... > > Paul > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Bloomfield" > > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:34 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: another new gum... > > > >> Hi Keith, >> >> Yes, could be a difference in monitors, but I suspect we simply >> have an aesthetic difference-- with this particular image. >> >> I feel bad talking about Paul and his prints, as though he's >> somewhere in the room listening, but not allowed to respond-- but >> my point, really, was that I think it could be stronger with >> printing it differently (and without introducing muddiness or a >> "cloying" quality). In fact, as it stands, the bottom part of >> the image-- though not dark or rich-- looks muddy to me now. >> >> I like the subject matter, and even though I like the way the sky >> is rendered, the rest just seems to be lacking somehow.. Maybe >> Marek clarified it by saying that, overall, the image has a cyan >> cast to it. That's what it looks like to me, too. I couldn't >> determine what it was, except that everything seemed to look the >> same to me-- There wasn't that wonderful richness and definition >> of colors and tones that were so evident in the first prints >> posted. Not that every print has to be the same, but this just >> seem much less "accomplished" to me. >> >> How one chooses to print-- in whatever process-- should, of >> course, have to satisfy no one but the image-maker. But this >> reminds me of students I sometimes have, who will show just >> amazing work-- with a real eye for what makes a compelling >> image-- and not only that, they know how to print-- and I have to >> wonder what they're doing in my class in the first place. Then >> these same students will turn around the next week-- and show >> work that makes it hard to believe it's coming from the same set >> of eyes. My usual response is, "What in the hell were you >> thinking with this?" (Though I typically say that in a much >> nicer way.) >> >> So I stand by my comment that, print-wise, this just isn't nearly >> as accomplished or as strong as Paul's earlier prints he posted-- >> at least, from my viewpoint (and how it appears on my screen). >> Not everything has to be the same, obviously-- but, for me, it's >> hard to believe the same person who made this, also made those >> others. >> >> The good news, Paul, is that people are so taken with your >> images, that you're getting responses and some actual dialogue >> about them. I hope you'll post more. :) >> >> Diana >> >> On Jun 13, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Keith Gerling wrote: >> >> >>> Diana, >>> >>> I find the sky in this work to be incredibly rich and >>> complete. Maybe its >>> a difference in monitors or something, but I really cannot >>> visualize this >>> picture any "richer" w/o being cloying. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >>> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Do you really think so, Keith? It seems to me I've seen some >>>> wonderful gum >>>> prints that are rich and full of color that don't actually >>>> cross that fine >>>> line into muddiness. I also see this image (subject matter) >>>> open to various >>>> "techniques" and options. Obviously, a different mood would be >>>> evoked if >>>> printed differently, but I can see this image printed both >>>> richer and >>>> darker-- even, and especially, in the bottom third (without >>>> evolving into >>>> muddiness) and becoming a print that's is as interesting and >>>> seemingly >>>> "perfect" as this one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 13, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Keith Gerling wrote: >>>> >>>> Nice Paul. The technique should fit the subject, which this >>>> does. I like >>>> >>>>> the way you handled the bottom third of this composition. A >>>>> richer >>>>> handling >>>>> would have turned to mud. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Diana Bloomfield < >>>>> dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hey Paul, >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, this is nice, too-- but I like the others you did so >>>>>> much better. >>>>>> Maybe I just like the images themselves better than this one, >>>>>> but I also >>>>>> thought the printing was just superior and richer in every >>>>>> way. I think >>>>>> this is the style (that a lot of people seem to love, I guess) >>>>>> that >>>>>> always >>>>>> makes me think of Polaroid emulsion lifts. That's what this more >>>>>> "painterly" style looks like to me. For what it's worth, my >>>>>> vote is for >>>>>> the >>>>>> other way. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> Diana >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 12, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's another new gum in a more painterly style than my last two >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> offerings... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/viapiano/4691939849/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > From amyhgeorge at hotmail.com Tue Jun 22 17:49:06 2010 From: amyhgeorge at hotmail.com (Amy Holmes George) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:49:06 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: , , , <3DBCA18B19B54C348BEC3E67A79F9138@austinpowers>, , , , <5694818A-3542-4EE1-B29E-BAACD1B53C86@montana.net>, Message-ID: Thanks Marek, And yes, frantic is a good way to describe my recent printing difficulties! Yeeha :)Amy > From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 00:39:53 +0000 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy > > > Amy > > Just the best from another Texan. I wish I could share the exibit. Now I know why you were so frantic in your negative printing. > > And as we say Yeeha. > > Marek > > > From: zphoto at montana.net > > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:47:42 -0500 > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy > > > > Amy you are such the stud-ette! Say hi to Alberto over there if you all connect! Your pt/pd prints are gorgeous! But I think you need to toot your horn a little more that you did this body of work on a FULBRIGHT with a BABY. How many rephotographers do so with a baby in tow? > > Chris > > > > Christina Z. Anderson > > christinaZanderson.com > > > > On Jun 21, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Amy Holmes George wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you Don. Me too! > > > Amy > > > > > >> From: donsbryant at gmail.com > > >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > >> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:44:45 -0400 > > >> Subject: [alt-photo] Alt show in Florence, Italy > > >> > > >> Amy, > > >> > > >>> > > >> Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > > >> Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > > >> Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > > >> Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > > >>> > > >> > > >> Man that sounds pretty cool Amy. Wish we could all be there at the closing > > >> to celebrate. > > >> > > >> Don Bryant > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 From amyhgeorge at hotmail.com Tue Jun 22 18:00:56 2010 From: amyhgeorge at hotmail.com (Amy Holmes George) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 14:00:56 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Diana, thank you for your kind words! I am quite pleased with the exhibition space. Amy > From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 21:07:56 -0400 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt show in Florence, Italy > > Congratulations, Amy. I just now had a chance to look at the link Sam > provided here. Your prints look beautiful, and what gorgeous place > to hang them! > > Diana > On Jun 20, 2010, at 7:52 PM, sam wang wrote: > > > Amy Holmes George is showing her platinum/palladium prints, Double > > Vision: A View of Florence Past and Present, at the SACI gallery in > > Florence, Italy, June 7 - 24th. There will be a Closing Reception on > > Thursday, June 24th, at 6:30PM: > > > > http://www.saci-florence.org/currentExhibitions.asp?s=25 > > > > Let's all show up and surprise her! (Hehehe - as Mark would say.) > > > > Sam Wang > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Jun 22 20:27:53 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:27:53 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] stainless trays for gum? References: , , , Message-ID: <6311F651C53A4AAE81452B92A65429EA@dell4600> Hi... Can one use stainless trays for developing gum? I'm pretty sure it would be out for pt/pd use, but curious about gum... Thanks...Paul From pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 22 22:36:22 2010 From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca (Peter Friedrichsen) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 18:36:22 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: stainless trays for gum? In-Reply-To: <6311F651C53A4AAE81452B92A65429EA@dell4600> References: <6311F651C53A4AAE81452B92A65429EA@dell4600> Message-ID: I haven't used SS but in thinking about it I believe you have a very good chance of it not causing a problem. The dilute dichromate may eventually further passivate the SS with a thin chromic oxide layer which would further reduce any dissolution of the iron component. Of course the amount of iron dissolving out would likely be close to zero from the get go. Obviously, the use of ceramic, glass, or plastic trays would provide much more versatility with other processes that you may wish to pursue. Peter Friedrichsen At 04:27 PM 06/22/2010, you wrote: >Hi... > >Can one use stainless trays for developing gum? > >I'm pretty sure it would be out for pt/pd use, but curious about gum... > >Thanks...Paul >_______________________________________________ >Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Jun 22 22:40:38 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 15:40:38 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: stainless trays for gum? References: <6311F651C53A4AAE81452B92A65429EA@dell4600> Message-ID: <53B9424E7FE1498888CABF7420EB3C08@dell4600> After I posted the question I realized that a lot of gum printers (Keith Taylor, Karl Koenig) develop right in their stainless sinks... Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Friedrichsen" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 3:36 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: stainless trays for gum? >I haven't used SS but in thinking about it I believe you have a very good >chance of it not causing a problem. The dilute dichromate may eventually >further passivate the SS with a thin chromic oxide layer which would >further reduce any dissolution of the iron component. Of course the amount >of iron dissolving out would likely be close to zero from the get go. > > Obviously, the use of ceramic, glass, or plastic trays would provide much > more versatility with other processes that you may wish to pursue. > > Peter Friedrichsen > > > At 04:27 PM 06/22/2010, you wrote: >>Hi... >> >>Can one use stainless trays for developing gum? >> >>I'm pretty sure it would be out for pt/pd use, but curious about gum... >> >>Thanks...Paul >>_______________________________________________ >>Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jon at sharperstill.com Sat Jun 26 01:46:57 2010 From: jon at sharperstill.com (Jon Reid) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 11:46:57 +1000 Subject: [alt-photo] Dick Arentz's platinum book. Message-ID: <62E3FB28-34F3-4A49-89EA-70AAEA95E8D3@sharperstill.com> Perhaps others have tried to find this book recently at a respectable price. It's listed second hand at Amazon starting at $175USD but I just ordered one from camerabooks.com (located in Oregon USA) for $45USD. http://www.camerabooks.com/Products/Platinum-and-Palladium-Printing- Second-Edition-by-Dick-Arentz__PLATINUMPALLADIUM2NDEDARENTZ.aspx They have two more in stock. Best, Jon From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sat Jun 26 09:32:40 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 05:32:40 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Dick Arentz's platinum book. In-Reply-To: <62E3FB28-34F3-4A49-89EA-70AAEA95E8D3@sharperstill.com> References: <62E3FB28-34F3-4A49-89EA-70AAEA95E8D3@sharperstill.com> Message-ID: DEAR JON, Abebooks.com is a great place to search for reasonably priced books: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Dick+Arentz&sts=t&tn=Platin um+Printing&x=62&y=8 CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Jon Reid Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 9:47 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Dick Arentz's platinum book. Perhaps others have tried to find this book recently at a respectable price. It's listed second hand at Amazon starting at $175USD but I just ordered one from camerabooks.com (located in Oregon USA) for $45USD. http://www.camerabooks.com/Products/Platinum-and-Palladium-Printing- Second-Edition-by-Dick-Arentz__PLATINUMPALLADIUM2NDEDARENTZ.aspx They have two more in stock. Best, Jon _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5230 (20100625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jon at sharperstill.com Sun Jun 27 04:22:48 2010 From: jon at sharperstill.com (Jonathan Reid) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:22:48 +1000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Dick Arentz's platinum book. In-Reply-To: References: <62E3FB28-34F3-4A49-89EA-70AAEA95E8D3@sharperstill.com> Message-ID: <5E29F92C-9CEA-4772-8667-D544183B6827@sharperstill.com> Thanks Bob, I saw those listings but the reasonably cheap ones are for the first edition, while the second edition, which I bought, is listed at $404USD. I got mine for ~$44. Jon On 26/06/2010, at 7:32 PM, BOB KISS wrote: > http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Dick+Arentz&sts=t&tn=Platin > um+Printing&x=62&y=8 From jon at sharperstill.com Sun Jun 27 04:32:40 2010 From: jon at sharperstill.com (Jonathan Reid) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:32:40 +1000 Subject: [alt-photo] Ammonium Citrate Message-ID: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> Hi all, Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? I'm just trying to find a local supplier. Jon From alt.list at albertonovo.it Sun Jun 27 04:39:05 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 06:39:05 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate In-Reply-To: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> Message-ID: <20100627043905.28505.qmail@webmaildh2.aruba.it> > Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? I'm just trying > to find a local supplier. They are two different things. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From frangst at gmail.com Sun Jun 27 04:40:53 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:40:53 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate In-Reply-To: <20100627043905.28505.qmail@webmaildh2.aruba.it> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627043905.28505.qmail@webmaildh2.aruba.it> Message-ID: One is a developer for palladium (Ammonium Citrate) and the other (AFC) is one half of the chemistry for Cyanotype. On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Alberto Novo wrote: > Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? I'm just trying >> to find a local supplier. >> > > They are two different things. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From frangst at gmail.com Sun Jun 27 04:43:09 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:43:09 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627043905.28505.qmail@webmaildh2.aruba.it> Message-ID: and appearance... AFC is usually in the form of blue-green or green flakes to powder. AC is usually a fine, crystalline white powder. -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From photographeur at nerdshack.com Sun Jun 27 04:56:06 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:56:06 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate In-Reply-To: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> Message-ID: <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> Jon wrote: >Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? No. Ammonium Ferric Citrate (better known to us older folks as Ferric Ammonium Citrate or FAC), C6H8O7.nFe.nH3N, is CAS No. 1185-57-5. Ammonium Citrate, (NH4)2C6H6O7, is CAS No. 3012-65-5. The "n"s in the FAC formula indicate that FAC can have varying amounts of Fe and NH3. The green form (lower Fe and NH3, higher hydrated citric acid) is generally preferred for photographic uses. Best regards, etienne From mail at loris.medici.name Sun Jun 27 13:19:21 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:19:21 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! Message-ID: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> Hi all, I've just purchased Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate from Fluka / Sigma-Adrich. (See product info here: http://bit.ly/9nrgtj, Lot #BCBB2047) Unfortunately, as soon as I mix stock soln. A and B ,I get spontaneous blue in the the cyanotype coating solution. I think this is indication of some Iron(II) impurity!!! (It's not the ferricyanide, that works w/o problems with B&S AFC...) I tried to add small amnt. of OTC 3% hydrogen peroxide in soln. A, in order to convert Iron(II) to Iron(III) and it worked. (Two drops of peroxide in 10 drops of 25% AFC cures the instantaneous blue problem completely...) So, 1. Beware if you're planning to purchase that particular product! 2. I'm going to test in order to find the min. amnt. of peroxide that cures the problem. (Tell me if you want it to share here later...) OTOH, I'm not sure if there's any adverse effect in adding peroxide to the stock solution, both in terms of stability and picture-making. I would definitely like to have your comments and warnings (if any) on this issue. (Please note that I'm planning to use the same AFC for making Vandykes and/or Argyrotypes too!) Also, what else can I do to eliminate Iron(II) from the stock solution? TIA, Loris. From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Sun Jun 27 13:26:07 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:26:07 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> Message-ID: <00a701cb15fc$4ccb60d0$e6622270$@com> That's interesting Loris. I've just got some from Sigma (UK) and mine is fine, (used for cyanos and VDB). I wonder if yours has been hanging around a bit? John. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Loris Medici Sent: 27 June 2010 14:19 To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! Hi all, I've just purchased Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate from Fluka / Sigma-Adrich. (See product info here: http://bit.ly/9nrgtj, Lot #BCBB2047) Unfortunately, as soon as I mix stock soln. A and B ,I get spontaneous blue in the the cyanotype coating solution. I think this is indication of some Iron(II) impurity!!! (It's not the ferricyanide, that works w/o problems with B&S AFC...) I tried to add small amnt. of OTC 3% hydrogen peroxide in soln. A, in order to convert Iron(II) to Iron(III) and it worked. (Two drops of peroxide in 10 drops of 25% AFC cures the instantaneous blue problem completely...) So, 1. Beware if you're planning to purchase that particular product! 2. I'm going to test in order to find the min. amnt. of peroxide that cures the problem. (Tell me if you want it to share here later...) OTOH, I'm not sure if there's any adverse effect in adding peroxide to the stock solution, both in terms of stability and picture-making. I would definitely like to have your comments and warnings (if any) on this issue. (Please note that I'm planning to use the same AFC for making Vandykes and/or Argyrotypes too!) Also, what else can I do to eliminate Iron(II) from the stock solution? TIA, Loris. _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2964 - Release Date: 06/27/10 07:35:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2964 - Release Date: 06/27/10 07:35:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 07:35:00 From mail at loris.medici.name Sun Jun 27 13:49:20 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:49:20 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <00a701cb15fc$4ccb60d0$e6622270$@com> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> <00a701cb15fc$4ccb60d0$e6622270$@com> Message-ID: <2701CB60-038E-4878-B2C4-97AAB04526F2@loris.medici.name> Hi John, Is it the same stuff? There are a couple of different AFC in Sigma-Aldrich catalog... And, if it's the same product indeed, what is the Lot # of yours? (See the link my my original message...) I don't know for how much they were keeping it in stock. OTOH, to my knowing, powdered AFC keeps indefinitely when protected from moisture (and UV light perhaps)... Maybe I should have brought another version... Anyway, I'll just have to find to how I can make it work w/o problems I guess! Regards, Loris. On 27.Haz.2010, at 16:26, John Brewer wrote: > That's interesting Loris. I've just got some from Sigma (UK) and mine is > fine, (used for cyanos and VDB). I wonder if yours has been hanging around a > bit? From davidashcraft at sti.net Sun Jun 27 16:55:12 2010 From: davidashcraft at sti.net (David Ashcraft) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:55:12 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any suggestions? David From alt.list at albertonovo.it Sun Jun 27 17:52:23 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:52:23 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> Message-ID: <20100627175223.19577.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> > 2. I'm going to test in order to find the min. amnt. of peroxide that cures the problem. (Tell me if you want it to share here later...) OTOH, I'm not sure if there's any adverse effect in adding peroxide to the stock solution, both in terms of stability and picture-making. I would definitely like to have your comments and warnings (if any) on this issue. In the old texts (don't ask me which one, I am only remembering...) it was recommended the use of potassium permanganate in order to oxidize the iron(II). However, I don't see any adverse effect of H2O2 if you add it drop by drop, checking for the blue reaction after each drop. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Sun Jun 27 18:29:08 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 19:29:08 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <2701CB60-038E-4878-B2C4-97AAB04526F2@loris.medici.name> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> <00a701cb15fc$4ccb60d0$e6622270$@com> <2701CB60-038E-4878-B2C4-97AAB04526F2@loris.medici.name> Message-ID: <00e501cb1626$a1816050$e48420f0$@com> Hi Loris, Mine has a batch number of 7317/6y but has been repackaged by my chem co for me, (into 100g tubs), who order direct from Fluka/Sigma. There's no lot # on my labels. J. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Loris Medici Sent: 27 June 2010 14:49 To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! Hi John, Is it the same stuff? There are a couple of different AFC in Sigma-Aldrich catalog... And, if it's the same product indeed, what is the Lot # of yours? (See the link my my original message...) I don't know for how much they were keeping it in stock. OTOH, to my knowing, powdered AFC keeps indefinitely when protected from moisture (and UV light perhaps)... Maybe I should have brought another version... Anyway, I'll just have to find to how I can make it work w/o problems I guess! Regards, Loris. On 27.Haz.2010, at 16:26, John Brewer wrote: > That's interesting Loris. I've just got some from Sigma (UK) and mine is > fine, (used for cyanos and VDB). I wonder if yours has been hanging around a > bit? _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2964 - Release Date: 06/27/10 07:35:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2964 - Release Date: 06/27/10 07:35:00 -------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2966 - Release Date: 06/27/10 07:35:00 From mail at loris.medici.name Sun Jun 27 19:06:28 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:06:28 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <20100627175223.19577.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> <20100627175223.19577.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Message-ID: <2271F2D7-EB8B-49C9-9D39-89A5CE7094C7@loris.medici.name> I thought the same way, OTOH, I fear to add in excess since I'm going to use for iron-silver processes too - I think that wouldn't be nice for those... I guess ferricyanide is the best test; even a small amnt. will cause prussian blue pigment that has high-tinting strength. Regards, Loris. On 27.Haz.2010, at 20:52, Alberto Novo wrote: >> 2. I'm going to test in order to find the min. amnt. of peroxide that cures the problem. (Tell me if you want it to share here later...) OTOH, I'm not sure if there's any adverse effect in adding peroxide to the stock solution, both in terms of stability and picture-making. I would definitely like to have your comments and warnings (if any) on this issue. > > In the old texts (don't ask me which one, I am only remembering...) it was recommended the use of potassium permanganate in order to oxidize the iron(II). However, I don't see any adverse effect of H2O2 if you add it drop by drop, checking for the blue reaction after each drop. From mail at loris.medici.name Sun Jun 27 19:07:18 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:07:18 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <00e501cb1626$a1816050$e48420f0$@com> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name> <00a701cb15fc$4ccb60d0$e6622270$@com> <2701CB60-038E-4878-B2C4-97AAB04526F2@loris.medici.name> <00e501cb1626$a1816050$e48420f0$@com> Message-ID: <1E1DD025-A0A8-49BF-9C72-78B07DA10943@loris.medici.name> I see, then we have no means to compare the products we have on hands... Thanks anyway, Loris. On 27.Haz.2010, at 21:29, John Brewer wrote: > Hi Loris, > > Mine has a batch number of 7317/6y but has been repackaged by my chem co for > me, (into 100g tubs), who order direct from Fluka/Sigma. There's no lot # on > my labels. From christnze at gmail.com Sun Jun 27 20:47:06 2010 From: christnze at gmail.com (Christian nze) Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:47:06 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 184, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ammonium citrate is easy to do with ammonium carbonate and citric acid. 2010/6/27, alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org : > Send Alt-photo-process-list mailing list submissions to > alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo/alt-photo-process-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > alt-photo-process-list-request at lists.altphotolist.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > alt-photo-process-list-owner at lists.altphotolist.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Alt-photo-process-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dick Arentz's platinum book. (Jonathan Reid) > 2. Ammonium Citrate (Jonathan Reid) > 3. Re: Ammonium Citrate (Alberto Novo) > 4. Re: Ammonium Citrate (francis schanberger) > 5. Re: Ammonium Citrate (francis schanberger) > 6. Re: Ammonium Citrate (etienne garbaux) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:22:48 +1000 > From: Jonathan Reid > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Dick Arentz's platinum book. > Message-ID: <5E29F92C-9CEA-4772-8667-D544183B6827 at sharperstill.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Thanks Bob, > > I saw those listings but the reasonably cheap ones are for the first > edition, while the second edition, which I bought, is listed at > $404USD. I got mine for ~$44. > > Jon > > > On 26/06/2010, at 7:32 PM, BOB KISS wrote: > >> http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Dick+Arentz&sts=t&tn=Platin >> um+Printing&x=62&y=8 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:32:40 +1000 > From: Jonathan Reid > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Ammonium Citrate > Message-ID: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB at sharperstill.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Hi all, > Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? I'm just > trying to find a local supplier. > > Jon > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 06:39:05 +0200 > From: "Alberto Novo" > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate > Message-ID: <20100627043905.28505.qmail at webmaildh2.aruba.it> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? I'm just trying >> to find a local supplier. > > They are two different things. > > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:40:53 -0400 > From: francis schanberger > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > One is a developer for palladium (Ammonium Citrate) and the other (AFC) is > one half of the chemistry for Cyanotype. > > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:39 AM, Alberto Novo > wrote: > >> Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? I'm just trying >>> to find a local supplier. >>> >> >> They are two different things. >> Alberto >> www.grupponamias.com >> www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > > > -- > francis schanberger > > www.frangst.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:43:09 -0400 > From: francis schanberger > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > and appearance... > > AFC is usually in the form of blue-green or green flakes to powder. > > AC is usually a fine, crystalline white powder. > > > > -- > francis schanberger > > www.frangst.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:56:06 -0400 > From: etienne garbaux > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Ammonium Citrate > Message-ID: <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F at karen.lavabit.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Jon wrote: > >>Is Ammonium Ferric Citrate the same as Ammonium Citrate? > > No. Ammonium Ferric Citrate (better known to us older folks as > Ferric Ammonium Citrate or FAC), C6H8O7.nFe.nH3N, is CAS No. > 1185-57-5. Ammonium Citrate, (NH4)2C6H6O7, is CAS No. 3012-65-5. > > The "n"s in the FAC formula indicate that FAC can have varying > amounts of Fe and NH3. The green form (lower Fe and NH3, higher > hydrated citric acid) is generally preferred for photographic uses. > > Best regards, > > etienne > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > End of Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 184, Issue 1 > ****************************************************** > From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Mon Jun 28 08:39:46 2010 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 10:39:46 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate -contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <2271F2D7-EB8B-49C9-9D39-89A5CE7094C7@loris.medici.name> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name><20100627175223.19577.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <2271F2D7-EB8B-49C9-9D39-89A5CE7094C7@loris.medici.name> Message-ID: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D3E@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Loris, I am sure you know that a peroxide stock isn't stable anyway; it gradually looses strength, so your empirical method is the best in this case Best, Cor > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt- > photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Loris > Medici > Sent: zondag 27 juni 2010 21:06 > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate - > contains Fe(II)!!! > > I thought the same way, OTOH, I fear to add in excess since I'm going to > use for iron-silver processes too - I think that wouldn't be nice for > those... I guess ferricyanide is the best test; even a small amnt. will > cause prussian blue pigment that has high-tinting strength. > > Regards, > Loris. > > On 27.Haz.2010, at 20:52, Alberto Novo wrote: > > >> 2. I'm going to test in order to find the min. amnt. of peroxide that > cures the problem. (Tell me if you want it to share here later...) OTOH, > I'm not sure if there's any adverse effect in adding peroxide to the stock > solution, both in terms of stability and picture-making. I would > definitely like to have your comments and warnings (if any) on this issue. > > > > In the old texts (don't ask me which one, I am only remembering...) it > was recommended the use of potassium permanganate in order to oxidize the > iron(II). However, I don't see any adverse effect of H2O2 if you add it > drop by drop, checking for the blue reaction after each drop. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 28 08:46:47 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 11:46:47 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate-contains Fe(II)!!! In-Reply-To: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D3E@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> References: <24D10A41-7263-40AA-B351-47E04DB4C79F@loris.medici.name><20100627175223.19577.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it><2271F2D7-EB8B-49C9-9D39-89A5CE7094C7@loris.medici.name> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45D3E@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: <326238FA53F64F05941F7E9D0EE1773B@altinyildiz.trk> Yes, I agree... I'll test / use that way. OTOH, as a note: I use 3% peroxide stored in a closet (away from light), at room temperature. I don't think it may weaken too much and too quickly at that concentration and storage contitions... (Something like 2-3% per year, at max. maybe?) Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of C.Breukel at lumc.nl Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:40 AM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Fluka / Sigma-Adrich Ammonium Iron(III) Citrate-contains Fe(II)!!! Loris, I am sure you know that a peroxide stock isn't stable anyway; it gradually looses strength, so your empirical method is the best in this case From jon at sharperstill.com Mon Jun 28 11:16:16 2010 From: jon at sharperstill.com (Jon Reid) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 21:16:16 +1000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> Message-ID: <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on paper but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having trouble sourcing any locally. I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to explore it's tone changing characteristics though I've read arguments for and against. Jon On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: > Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt > developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any > suggestions? > David > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From awschmitt at verizon.net Mon Jun 28 15:26:45 2010 From: awschmitt at verizon.net (Andy Schmitt) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 11:26:45 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt developer.. Message-ID: <20C40BA0604D4525890680880A995A0C@TOSHIBAAndy> Will this also work with Palladium? ____________________________________________________ From: Jon Reid >I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle >difference depending on paper but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of neutral. I'm >wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having >trouble sourcing any locally. >I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to explore it's tone changing characteristics though >I've read arguments for and against. >Jon On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: From: David Ashcraft > Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt > developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any > suggestions? > David > _______________________________________________ regards Andy Schmitt Photographer, Computerist, Slayer of Dragons All opinions expressed are mine...Unless otherwise stated or REALLY stupid Head of Photography, Peters Valley Craft Center 2010 schedule available on line at: http://www.petersvalley.org/brochure/photography.pdf From davidashcraft at sti.net Mon Jun 28 17:47:31 2010 From: davidashcraft at sti.net (David Ashcraft) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 10:47:31 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> Message-ID: <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> I had read that it was possible to produce a blue tone using this. The pics are winter scenes of ice and snow and printing them in warm tones isn't the look I want. My other pics are in pt/pd so I want to keep using these materials. I used the ammonium citrate and gold but wanted to go still cooler using the developer to do so. What formula are you using? David On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Jon Reid wrote: > I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp > (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on paper > but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of > neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged > cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having trouble > sourcing any locally. > > I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to explore > it's tone changing characteristics though I've read arguments for > and against. > > Jon > > > On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: > >> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt >> developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any >> suggestions? >> David >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From clayh at clayharmon.com Mon Jun 28 18:37:51 2010 From: clayh at clayharmon.com (Clay Harmon Website) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 13:37:51 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> Message-ID: I use this so-called 'cold bath' formula when I am doing workshops. I don't like the idea of having a bunch of people slopping around hot potassium oxalate in a closed space. I find that the image tone from this developer is actually pretty similar to straight 110degree potassium oxalate when the cold bath is used at room temperature. If it is cold tone you are looking for, I would stick with the pt/pd + gold toner that you are using. According to the Bostick-Sullivan site, the cold bath developer can produce cold toned prints when used at 50 degrees F, but apparently loses a lot of speed. I have never tried using it at that temperature, so I can't convey any direct experience. However, I can say that the cold bath formula used at around 70 degrees F is not radically different in print tone than the regular potox developer used slightly warm. Clay On Jun 28, 2010, at 12:47 PM, David Ashcraft wrote: > I had read that it was possible to produce a blue tone using this. The pics are winter scenes of ice and snow and printing them in warm tones isn't the look I want. My other pics are in pt/pd so I want to keep using these materials. I used the ammonium citrate and gold but wanted to go still cooler using the developer to do so. > > What formula are you using? > > David > On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Jon Reid wrote: > >> I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on paper but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having trouble sourcing any locally. >> >> I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to explore it's tone changing characteristics though I've read arguments for and against. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: >> >>> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any suggestions? >>> David >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Jun 28 20:04:59 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:04:59 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> Message-ID: Doesn't post-humidification (and/or exposing relatively humid paper) help in getting cooler print tones with develop-out pt/pd? IME, FWIW, AFO + Na2PdCl4 gives pretty cool print color (with considerable print-out) with - relatively - humid paper. Also, a "small" amnt. of gold-chloride in sensitizer also helps cooling print color - could be tried along with AFO + Na2PdCl4, IMHO... (Too much will give graininess and what not!) Regards, Loris. On 28.Haz.2010, at 21:37, Clay Harmon Website wrote: > I use this so-called 'cold bath' formula when I am doing workshops. I don't like the idea of having a bunch of people slopping around hot potassium oxalate in a closed space. > > I find that the image tone from this developer is actually pretty similar to straight 110degree potassium oxalate when the cold bath is used at room temperature. If it is cold tone you are looking for, I would stick with the pt/pd + gold toner that you are using. > > According to the Bostick-Sullivan site, the cold bath developer can produce cold toned prints when used at 50 degrees F, but apparently loses a lot of speed. I have never tried using it at that temperature, so I can't convey any direct experience. However, I can say that the cold bath formula used at around 70 degrees F is not radically different in print tone than the regular potox developer used slightly warm. > > Clay > On Jun 28, 2010, at 12:47 PM, David Ashcraft wrote: > >> I had read that it was possible to produce a blue tone using this. The pics are winter scenes of ice and snow and printing them in warm tones isn't the look I want. My other pics are in pt/pd so I want to keep using these materials. I used the ammonium citrate and gold but wanted to go still cooler using the developer to do so. >> >> What formula are you using? >> >> David >> On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Jon Reid wrote: >> >>> I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on paper but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having trouble sourcing any locally. >>> >>> I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to explore it's tone changing characteristics though I've read arguments for and against. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any suggestions? From ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 28 21:04:08 2010 From: ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net (Eric Neilsen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 16:04:08 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> Message-ID: <0b7901cb1705$76a6f680$63f4e380$@net> You will get cooler prints, simply by changing the ion to NH4 instead of Na2 than using the cold tone developer. That may be a bigger deal for you if all your pd is bought mixed, but quite easy if you buy powder and mix to liquid. Eric Neilsen 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 Let's Talk Photography www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Loris Medici Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 3:05 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate Doesn't post-humidification (and/or exposing relatively humid paper) help in getting cooler print tones with develop-out pt/pd? IME, FWIW, AFO + Na2PdCl4 gives pretty cool print color (with considerable print-out) with - relatively - humid paper. Also, a "small" amnt. of gold-chloride in sensitizer also helps cooling print color - could be tried along with AFO + Na2PdCl4, IMHO... (Too much will give graininess and what not!) Regards, Loris. On 28.Haz.2010, at 21:37, Clay Harmon Website wrote: > I use this so-called 'cold bath' formula when I am doing workshops. I don't like the idea of having a bunch of people slopping around hot potassium oxalate in a closed space. > > I find that the image tone from this developer is actually pretty similar to straight 110degree potassium oxalate when the cold bath is used at room temperature. If it is cold tone you are looking for, I would stick with the pt/pd + gold toner that you are using. > > According to the Bostick-Sullivan site, the cold bath developer can produce cold toned prints when used at 50 degrees F, but apparently loses a lot of speed. I have never tried using it at that temperature, so I can't convey any direct experience. However, I can say that the cold bath formula used at around 70 degrees F is not radically different in print tone than the regular potox developer used slightly warm. > > Clay > On Jun 28, 2010, at 12:47 PM, David Ashcraft wrote: > >> I had read that it was possible to produce a blue tone using this. The pics are winter scenes of ice and snow and printing them in warm tones isn't the look I want. My other pics are in pt/pd so I want to keep using these materials. I used the ammonium citrate and gold but wanted to go still cooler using the developer to do so. >> >> What formula are you using? >> >> David >> On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Jon Reid wrote: >> >>> I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on paper but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having trouble sourcing any locally. >>> >>> I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to explore it's tone changing characteristics though I've read arguments for and against. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a pt developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any suggestions? _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jon at sharperstill.com Mon Jun 28 21:49:26 2010 From: jon at sharperstill.com (Jon Reid) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:49:26 +1000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> Message-ID: <65A98470-59AC-40CD-884E-208AFE8338CF@sharperstill.com> I use the formula out of the Sullivan and Weese book. let me know if you don't have it. Also, I've never aimed for much more than neutral but I like to avoid the somewhat nostalgic look of tradition PotOx used at 40?. Jon On 29/06/2010, at 3:47 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: > I had read that it was possible to produce a blue tone using this. > The pics are winter scenes of ice and snow and printing them in > warm tones isn't the look I want. My other pics are in pt/pd so I > want to keep using these materials. I used the ammonium citrate > and gold but wanted to go still cooler using the developer to do so. > > What formula are you using? > > David > On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Jon Reid wrote: > >> I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp >> (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on paper >> but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just warm of >> neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's alleged >> cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having trouble >> sourcing any locally. >> >> I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to >> explore it's tone changing characteristics though I've read >> arguments for and against. >> >> Jon >> >> >> On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: >> >>> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a >>> pt developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any >>> suggestions? >>> David >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jon at sharperstill.com Tue Jun 29 00:47:41 2010 From: jon at sharperstill.com (Jon Reid) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:47:41 +1000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> Message-ID: <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com> Just following on this theme... I'm yet to try adding Gold Chloride to my mix to see if it cools the tones even more but am confused as to the practise. The Alt Photography Book (Chris James?) just says add one drop of 5% Gold chloride to the mix but isn't specific about whether this replaces one drop of another metal or adds to it. Also, what are people's opinions in general to the addition of Gold Chloride? I read that it can cause the other metals to start reducing out immediately. Jon On 29/06/2010, at 4:37 AM, Clay Harmon Website wrote: > I use this so-called 'cold bath' formula when I am doing workshops. > I don't like the idea of having a bunch of people slopping around > hot potassium oxalate in a closed space. > > I find that the image tone from this developer is actually pretty > similar to straight 110degree potassium oxalate when the cold bath > is used at room temperature. If it is cold tone you are looking > for, I would stick with the pt/pd + gold toner that you are using. > > According to the Bostick-Sullivan site, the cold bath developer can > produce cold toned prints when used at 50 degrees F, but apparently > loses a lot of speed. I have never tried using it at that > temperature, so I can't convey any direct experience. However, I > can say that the cold bath formula used at around 70 degrees F is > not radically different in print tone than the regular potox > developer used slightly warm. > > Clay > On Jun 28, 2010, at 12:47 PM, David Ashcraft wrote: > >> I had read that it was possible to produce a blue tone using >> this. The pics are winter scenes of ice and snow and printing >> them in warm tones isn't the look I want. My other pics are in pt/ >> pd so I want to keep using these materials. I used the ammonium >> citrate and gold but wanted to go still cooler using the developer >> to do so. >> >> What formula are you using? >> >> David >> On Jun 28, 2010, at 4:16 AM, Jon Reid wrote: >> >>> I use it all the time David. I use it typically around room temp >>> (~20-23)?. It's a reasonably subtle difference depending on >>> paper but on Arches platine it produces quite a nice tone just >>> warm of neutral. I'm wanting to explore Ammonium Citrate for it's >>> alleged cooler tones and slightly higher contrast but am having >>> trouble sourcing any locally. >>> >>> I'm also going to explore adding Gold chloride to my mix to >>> explore it's tone changing characteristics though I've read >>> arguments for and against. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> >>> On 28/06/2010, at 2:55 AM, David Ashcraft wrote: >>> >>>> Has anyone used potassium phosphate with potassium oxalate as a >>>> pt developer? I want to make pt prints in a cooler tone, any >>>> suggestions? >>>> David >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 29 06:22:49 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:22:49 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com> Message-ID: I was getting subtle blue-brown splits with pop palladium (AFO + LiPd), by replacing up to 10-15% of Pd with KAuCl4... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Jon Reid Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 3:48 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate Just following on this theme... I'm yet to try adding Gold Chloride to my mix to see if it cools the tones even more but am confused as to the practise. The Alt Photography Book (Chris James?) just says add one drop of 5% Gold chloride to the mix but isn't specific about whether this replaces one drop of another metal or adds to it. Also, what are people's opinions in general to the addition of Gold Chloride? I read that it can cause the other metals to start reducing out immediately. From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 29 12:59:45 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:59:45 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net>, <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com>, Message-ID: By the time I could get really nice and neutral black with POP palladium and gold, I was also getting a pink stain in the highlights, very unappealing. The pink is a result of colloidal gold being made during development. The more gold, the reacher the blacks and worse pink stain, the contrast of the mix changes as well. AT the end I did not feel I could produce images that were techincally accomplished and do it in a reliable fashion If you are after pure rich black pure platinum is the way to go. Marek > From: mail at loris.medici.name > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:22:49 +0300 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > I was getting subtle blue-brown splits with pop palladium (AFO + LiPd), by > replacing up to 10-15% of Pd with KAuCl4... > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Jon > Reid > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 3:48 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > Just following on this theme... I'm yet to try adding Gold Chloride to my > mix to see if it cools the tones even more but am confused as to the > practise. The Alt Photography Book (Chris James?) just says add one drop of > 5% Gold chloride to the mix but isn't specific about whether this replaces > one drop of another metal or adds to it. Also, what are people's opinions in > general to the addition of Gold Chloride? I read that it can cause the other > metals to start reducing out immediately. > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 29 13:05:16 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:05:16 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com><1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net>, <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com>, Message-ID: <63346B8D97E3416A866F168D9E7181D2@altinyildiz.trk> Marek, I don't understand that; you can already get rich and dead neutral blacks with (NH4)2[PdCl4] or Li2PdCl4, "w/o adding any Pt and/or gold chloride"? Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Marek Matusz Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:00 PM To: alt photo Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate By the time I could get really nice and neutral black with POP palladium and gold, I was also getting a pink stain in the highlights, very unappealing. The pink is a result of colloidal gold being made during development. The more gold, the reacher the blacks and worse pink stain, the contrast of the mix changes as well. AT the end I did not feel I could produce images that were techincally accomplished and do it in a reliable fashion If you are after pure rich black pure platinum is the way to go. Marek > From: mail at loris.medici.name > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:22:49 +0300 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > I was getting subtle blue-brown splits with pop palladium (AFO + > LiPd), by replacing up to 10-15% of Pd with KAuCl4... > > Regards, > Loris. From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Tue Jun 29 13:09:24 2010 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:09:24 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <63346B8D97E3416A866F168D9E7181D2@altinyildiz.trk> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com><1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net>, , <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com>, , , , <63346B8D97E3416A866F168D9E7181D2@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Loris, Palladium POP might look "black" when you look at it, but not quite black when you put it next to a pure platinum print. AT least that was my experiece. Marek > From: mail at loris.medici.name > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:05:16 +0300 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > Marek, I don't understand that; you can already get rich and dead neutral > blacks with (NH4)2[PdCl4] or Li2PdCl4, "w/o adding any Pt and/or gold > chloride"? > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of > Marek Matusz > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:00 PM > To: alt photo > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > > By the time I could get really nice and neutral black with POP palladium and > gold, I was also getting a pink stain in the highlights, very unappealing. > The pink is a result of colloidal gold being made during development. The > more gold, the reacher the blacks and worse pink stain, the contrast of the > mix changes as well. AT the end I did not feel I could produce images that > were techincally accomplished and do it in a reliable fashion > > If you are after pure rich black pure platinum is the way to go. > > Marek > > > From: mail at loris.medici.name > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:22:49 +0300 > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > > > I was getting subtle blue-brown splits with pop palladium (AFO + > > LiPd), by replacing up to 10-15% of Pd with KAuCl4... > > > > Regards, > > Loris. > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 From frangst at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 13:19:44 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:19:44 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image Message-ID: Dear List, There alive!!!! Has anyone working in Vandyke Brown noticed that the printed out image darkens down prior to processing? I am an awful multi-tasker and sometimes I will stop my workflow at the point of final exposure, go and do some chores around the house and comeback to process an image after say ten to 30 minutes. I usually stop the Vandyke exposure (sorry, no Stouffer's for these specific images) when it is a bit light looking but not faint. When normally processing the hypo darkens the image as you would expect. But when I leave the exposure to rest, it will continue to darken in dark conditions to a point before I process. -francis From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 29 13:24:37 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:24:37 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com><1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net>, , <56876F54-1830-4279-9586-79B40D72CC7B@sharperstill.com>, , , , <63346B8D97E3416A866F168D9E7181D2@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Not in my subjective eyeballing experience (I must confess that I haven't checked that with a color densitometer) - at least when exposing relatively humid paper. (Which I almost always did; I was usually waiting not more than 8-10 minutes after coating, and I was always using a 2 mils thick protective transparent sheet between the paper and the negative...) I agree that adding gold chloride for neutral blacks isn't necessary... As I said before, I was only using very little of it, in order to get subtle blue-brown splits with relatively (to the above) dry paper. Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of Marek Matusz Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:09 PM To: alt photo Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate Loris, Palladium POP might look "black" when you look at it, but not quite black when you put it next to a pure platinum print. AT least that was my experiece. Marek > From: mail at loris.medici.name > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:05:16 +0300 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > Marek, I don't understand that; you can already get rich and dead > neutral blacks with (NH4)2[PdCl4] or Li2PdCl4, "w/o adding any Pt > and/or gold chloride"? > > Regards, > Loris. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf > Of Marek Matusz > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:00 PM > To: alt photo > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > > By the time I could get really nice and neutral black with POP > palladium and gold, I was also getting a pink stain in the highlights, very unappealing. > The pink is a result of colloidal gold being made during development. > The more gold, the reacher the blacks and worse pink stain, the > contrast of the mix changes as well. AT the end I did not feel I could > produce images that were techincally accomplished and do it in a > reliable fashion > > If you are after pure rich black pure platinum is the way to go. > > Marek > > > From: mail at loris.medici.name > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:22:49 +0300 > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate > > > > I was getting subtle blue-brown splits with pop palladium (AFO + > > LiPd), by replacing up to 10-15% of Pd with KAuCl4... > > > > Regards, > > Loris. > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 29 13:28:04 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:28:04 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38BAF0D0857947C5980402430C38B9B1@altinyildiz.trk> Yes, IME, one usually gains something like 1-2 or even 3 (log 0.1) steps in the highlights. I presume it's the effect of paper contracting while drying, aggregating the not-visible-before silver grains... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of francis schanberger Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:20 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image Dear List, There alive!!!! Has anyone working in Vandyke Brown noticed that the printed out image darkens down prior to processing? I am an awful multi-tasker and sometimes I will stop my workflow at the point of final exposure, go and do some chores around the house and comeback to process an image after say ten to 30 minutes. I usually stop the Vandyke exposure (sorry, no Stouffer's for these specific images) when it is a bit light looking but not faint. When normally processing the hypo darkens the image as you would expect. But when I leave the exposure to rest, it will continue to darken in dark conditions to a point before I process. From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 29 13:32:34 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:32:34 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image References: Message-ID: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> Also, try to post-humidify the paper after exposure; you may experience that much quicker. I've misread your message below; you were talking about post exposure but before processing, right? (If so, then disregard my first reply... Sorry for the confusion.) I would say that's the effect of humidity in the environment - strengthening the print-out. Post-humidification is often recommended by masters, to get even more subtle highlights and a stronger print-out... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: Loris Medici [mailto:mail at loris.medici.name] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:28 PM To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' Subject: RE: [alt-photo] they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image Yes, IME, one usually gains something like 1-2 or even 3 (log 0.1) steps in the highlights. I presume it's the effect of paper contracting while drying, aggregating the not-visible-before silver grains... Regards, Loris. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On Behalf Of francis schanberger Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:20 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image Dear List, There alive!!!! Has anyone working in Vandyke Brown noticed that the printed out image darkens down prior to processing? I am an awful multi-tasker and sometimes I will stop my workflow at the point of final exposure, go and do some chores around the house and comeback to process an image after say ten to 30 minutes. I usually stop the Vandyke exposure (sorry, no Stouffer's for these specific images) when it is a bit light looking but not faint. When normally processing the hypo darkens the image as you would expect. But when I leave the exposure to rest, it will continue to darken in dark conditions to a point before I process. From davidashcraft at sti.net Tue Jun 29 14:23:25 2010 From: davidashcraft at sti.net (David Ashcraft) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:23:25 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <0b7901cb1705$76a6f680$63f4e380$@net> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com> <20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net> <391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com> <29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net> <0b7901cb1705$76a6f680$63f4e380$@net> Message-ID: Eric, I did a little reading (http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/articles/zia_ware.html ) and it appears to give just a neutral tone where the potassium phosphate was reported to give bluish tones (History & Practice of Platinum Printing by Nadeau). Where you able to get cold tones using NH4? According to the chart on the B&S site neutral is the best listed as far as cooler tones are concerned and that by controlling humidity. I find it interesting how much humidity plays a part in these different processes. Time to build a humidity chamber!? Will it still be considered Alt if the humidity is controlled digitally? -:o) David On Jun 28, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote: > You will get cooler prints, simply by changing the ion to NH4 > instead of Na2 than using the cold tone developer. That may be a > bigger From samwang864 at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 15:29:52 2010 From: samwang864 at gmail.com (sam wang) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:29:52 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image In-Reply-To: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Hi Loris, That's actually a very good way to tame the over-contrasty cyanotype - leaving it as long as over-night before "development" to bring in the highlights. Sam Wang On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > > I would say that's the effect of humidity in the environment - > strengthening > the print-out. Post-humidification is often recommended by masters, > to get > even more subtle highlights and a stronger print-out... > > Regards, > Loris. From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Jun 29 16:33:13 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:33:13 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: they live! darkening down, Printing Out Image In-Reply-To: References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Yeees, that could be a very nice method for in-camera negative users, indeed! (Thanks much.) OTOH, I, being a colorized digital negative user, plus, - more importantly - a new cyanotype practitioner, never had too much problems with cyanotype highlights; both methods help in getting exquisite hightlights. ;) Regards, Loris. On 29.Haz.2010, at 18:29, sam wang wrote: > Hi Loris, > > That's actually a very good way to tame the over-contrasty cyanotype - leaving it as long as over-night before "development" to bring in the highlights. > > Sam Wang > > > On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:32 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > >> >> I would say that's the effect of humidity in the environment - strengthening >> the print-out. Post-humidification is often recommended by masters, to get >> even more subtle highlights and a stronger print-out... From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Jun 29 22:44:01 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:44:01 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] pt/pd differences in exposure methods References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Has anyone compared exposure methods and the differences in results? I seem to get deeper blacks when exposing in the sun than using the NuArc. Even using a separate custom curve for each method, the sun gives me a better black, more contrasty result... Don't get me wrong, the results are very good, but the edge goes to the sun prints. Paul From jeremydmoore at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 23:24:11 2010 From: jeremydmoore at gmail.com (Jeremy Moore) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 18:24:11 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods In-Reply-To: References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: Paul, do you have a densitometer to measure the difference in reflective dMax? On Jun 29, 2010 5:44 PM, "Paul Viapiano" wrote: Has anyone compared exposure methods and the differences in results? I seem to get deeper blacks when exposing in the sun than using the NuArc. Even using a separate custom curve for each method, the sun gives me a better black, more contrasty result... Don't get me wrong, the results are very good, but the edge goes to the sun prints. Paul _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Jun 29 23:28:12 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:28:12 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> Message-ID: <2348A71C0D034578A79BD6D37BC9CD5D@dell4600> No, Jeremy, I don't. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Moore" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:24 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods > Paul, do you have a densitometer to measure the difference in reflective > dMax? > > On Jun 29, 2010 5:44 PM, "Paul Viapiano" wrote: > > Has anyone compared exposure methods and the differences in results? > > I seem to get deeper blacks when exposing in the sun than using the NuArc. > Even using a separate custom curve for each method, the sun gives me a > better black, more contrasty result... > > Don't get me wrong, the results are very good, but the edge goes to the > sun > prints. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From frangst at gmail.com Wed Jun 30 17:08:23 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:08:23 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] summer reading Message-ID: so the post regarding the Dick Arentz book got me thinking... what are you guys reading this summer? I picked up the new Lyle Rexer book, *The Edge of Vision: the Rise of Abstraction in Photography*. some of you may remember Lyle Rexer as the author of the Photography's Antiquarian Avant-garde. the new book is beautifully illustrated and the text is expanding my vocabulary, slowly but surely. -francis -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 30 17:48:40 2010 From: ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net (EJ Photo) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:48:40 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods In-Reply-To: <2348A71C0D034578A79BD6D37BC9CD5D@dell4600> References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk> <2348A71C0D034578A79BD6D37BC9CD5D@dell4600> Message-ID: <4B21484FB65C451E97914EA58A020136@Eric64> Paul, Over the years there has been much discussion on different exposure units, and everything under the sun. With not only the quality of light but the quantity of light being important, they alone don't determine the speed of the coated paper. The film or substrate that holds the resist, negative both digital and traditional, blocks UV light as does the glass. it is a complicated set of variables. The glass types can change their UV blocking characteristics while keeping the same name or label. Rigorous testing over all the possible sources has not to my knowledge been done with certainty. You also have the moisture content, and make up of FO, AFO, and paper types. Mike Ware did put out a paper on platinum printing many years back that did specify yield based on certain UV output. It did hold true to my observations, but I never tried to match, make equivalent controls, etc. Best advise I can offer on that is keep notes, and use your findings for your specific set of contact frames, glass, negatives and ink sets. NuArc is a brand, but not a specific lamp; there are several that work. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1 Let's Talk Photography -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Paul Viapiano Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:28 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods No, Jeremy, I don't. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Moore" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:24 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods > Paul, do you have a densitometer to measure the difference in reflective > dMax? > > On Jun 29, 2010 5:44 PM, "Paul Viapiano" wrote: > > Has anyone compared exposure methods and the differences in results? > > I seem to get deeper blacks when exposing in the sun than using the NuArc. > Even using a separate custom curve for each method, the sun gives me a > better black, more contrasty result... > > Don't get me wrong, the results are very good, but the edge goes to the > sun > prints. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 30 17:53:58 2010 From: ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net (EJ Photo) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:53:58 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net><0b7901cb1705$76a6f680$63f4e380$@net> Message-ID: <80B89D814AFF4589A3C129F4AE0B8F48@Eric64> David, Neutral is quite a bit cooler than warm. The difference that I saw with cold bath was less than that shift. Using both may get you closer. The addition of gold can certainly get you cooler yet. Humidity has been no secret for many years as a way to control color of prints. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1 Let's Talk Photography -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of David Ashcraft Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:23 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate Eric, I did a little reading (http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/articles/zia_ware.html ) and it appears to give just a neutral tone where the potassium phosphate was reported to give bluish tones (History & Practice of Platinum Printing by Nadeau). Where you able to get cold tones using NH4? According to the chart on the B&S site neutral is the best listed as far as cooler tones are concerned and that by controlling humidity. I find it interesting how much humidity plays a part in these different processes. Time to build a humidity chamber!? Will it still be considered Alt if the humidity is controlled digitally? -:o) David On Jun 28, 2010, at 2:04 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote: > You will get cooler prints, simply by changing the ion to NH4 > instead of Na2 than using the cold tone developer. That may be a > bigger _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Wed Jun 30 17:59:28 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:59:28 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods References: <28F7795B79244BB09E3AD3D82C6918A6@altinyildiz.trk><2348A71C0D034578A79BD6D37BC9CD5D@dell4600> <4B21484FB65C451E97914EA58A020136@Eric64> Message-ID: <3A58A0710E3A464593F0CB955AF4F9ED@dell4600> Thanks, Eric... I do keep detailed notes on everything. I worked out the problem this morning. It seems that my latest package of Fabiano needs a lot more acidification than my last batch. I had one sheet left from the old pile and just tested it. Perfect...all other variables were exact. Much thanks...your reply should be in the pantheon of troubleshooting lists. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "EJ Photo" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods > Paul, Over the years there has been much discussion on different exposure > units, and everything under the sun. With not only the quality of light > but > the quantity of light being important, they alone don't determine the > speed > of the coated paper. The film or substrate that holds the resist, negative > both digital and traditional, blocks UV light as does the glass. it is a > complicated set of variables. The glass types can change their UV blocking > characteristics while keeping the same name or label. Rigorous testing > over > all the possible sources has not to my knowledge been done with certainty. > > You also have the moisture content, and make up of FO, AFO, and paper > types. > > > Mike Ware did put out a paper on platinum printing many years back that > did > specify yield based on certain UV output. It did hold true to my > observations, but I never tried to match, make equivalent controls, etc. > Best advise I can offer on that is keep notes, and use your findings for > your specific set of contact frames, glass, negatives and ink sets. > > NuArc is a brand, but not a specific lamp; there are several that work. > > Eric Neilsen > Eric Neilsen Photography > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > Dallas, TX 75226 > > www.ericneilsenphotography.com > skype me with ejprinter > www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1 > Let's Talk Photography > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf > Of > Paul Viapiano > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:28 PM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods > > No, Jeremy, I don't. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Moore" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 4:24 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pt/pd differences in exposure methods > > >> Paul, do you have a densitometer to measure the difference in reflective >> dMax? >> >> On Jun 29, 2010 5:44 PM, "Paul Viapiano" wrote: >> >> Has anyone compared exposure methods and the differences in results? >> >> I seem to get deeper blacks when exposing in the sun than using the >> NuArc. >> Even using a separate custom curve for each method, the sun gives me a >> better black, more contrasty result... >> >> Don't get me wrong, the results are very good, but the edge goes to the >> sun >> prints. >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From rene at qx.net Wed Jun 30 19:52:28 2010 From: rene at qx.net (Rene M Hales) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:52:28 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: summer reading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001b01cb188d$c5463880$4fd2a980$@net> I just got "Holly Roberts: Works 2000 to 2009". Holly did a recent workshop in Lexington, KY USA for the KY Women Photographers Network. I am enjoying the images and the information included on her evolution of style and method. Rene Hales http://www.pbase.com/halesr -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of francis schanberger Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:08 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] summer reading what are you guys reading this summer? -- francis schanberger From mail at loris.medici.name Wed Jun 30 20:25:09 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:25:09 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: summer reading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2BA825.6040906@loris.medici.name> Hi Francis, What a coincidence, I've just purchased the Rexer book today! I hope it will be a nice reading... Regards, Loris. 30.06.2010 20:08, francis schanberger yazm??: > so the post regarding the Dick Arentz book got me thinking... > > > what are you guys reading this summer? > > I picked up the new Lyle Rexer book, *The Edge of Vision: the Rise of > Abstraction in Photography*. some of you may remember Lyle Rexer as the > author of the Photography's Antiquarian Avant-garde. > > the new book is beautifully illustrated and the text is expanding my > vocabulary, slowly but surely. > > -francis From cryberg at comcast.net Wed Jun 30 21:04:01 2010 From: cryberg at comcast.net (Charles Ryberg) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 14:04:01 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] gum--different colors different coating problems? In-Reply-To: <4C2BA825.6040906@loris.medici.name> References: <4C2BA825.6040906@loris.medici.name> Message-ID: <71501C198BD84F0788EB25AC94E28EBE@hpPC> Paul Viapiano's beautiful prints inspired me to tackle gum, again. By looking at his, I determined that I had been using WAY too little pigment. I increased the amount of Hansa Yellow and got a lovely mixture which went down on the paper like very high quality wall paint. No brush marks, no streaks, just an even yellow field. My Perelene Red went down like cheap discount wall paint. Careful application and quick but thorough blending gave me a satisfactory field. But the French Ultramarine looks awful with streaks and brushmarks no matter what I do. I tried a little Tween a lot of Tween increasing the gum proportion increasing the water proportion using everclear (95% ethanol) for half the water. All ugly. Then I read that Paul uses Pthalo blue, so I tried that with some small improvement but the Pthalo stains like mad--never gives me anywhere near paper white. I really have to put the yellow down first because it is opaque and has a reputation for making muddy colors if used second or third--so I can't do gum over cyano. Well, I suspect I can't, but I may try it out of desperation though what the necessary acid prewash will do to FAB's gum friendly size is dubious. Any suggestions? Charles Portland Oregon From ender100 at aol.com Wed Jun 30 23:09:47 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:09:47 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: summer reading In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63CA354E-1F5C-49BB-B162-A0DA4F3F2A08@aol.com> Last week The Passage This week Earth Abides Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy On Jun 30, 2010, at 12:08 PM, francis schanberger wrote: > so the post regarding the Dick Arentz book got me thinking... > > > what are you guys reading this summer? > > I picked up the new Lyle Rexer book, *The Edge of Vision: the Rise of > Abstraction in Photography*. some of you may remember Lyle Rexer as > the > author of the Photography's Antiquarian Avant-garde. > > the new book is beautifully illustrated and the text is expanding my > vocabulary, slowly but surely. > > -francis > > > -- > francis schanberger > > www.frangst.com > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Wed Jun 30 23:24:18 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:24:18 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: summer reading References: <63CA354E-1F5C-49BB-B162-A0DA4F3F2A08@aol.com> Message-ID: <178883CE26284AF1A9905FDBF652462D@dell4600> I'll look out for the new Rexer book. I have the previous one here from our local library. I'm reading several printmaking books right now, solarplate, chine colle, intaglio, etc as well as Umberto Eco's The Infinity of Lists, another on Baroque painting in Bologna, and Jonathan Franzen's incredible, The Corrections. Yeah, I know, I'm almost 10 years late to the party, but what a great read, beautifully written. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Nelson" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:09 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: summer reading > Last week The Passage > This week Earth Abides > > Mark Nelson > www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com > PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups > www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com > > sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy > > On Jun 30, 2010, at 12:08 PM, francis schanberger > wrote: > >> so the post regarding the Dick Arentz book got me thinking... >> >> >> what are you guys reading this summer? >> >> I picked up the new Lyle Rexer book, *The Edge of Vision: the Rise of >> Abstraction in Photography*. some of you may remember Lyle Rexer as the >> author of the Photography's Antiquarian Avant-garde. >> >> the new book is beautifully illustrated and the text is expanding my >> vocabulary, slowly but surely. >> >> -francis >> >> >> -- >> francis schanberger >> >> www.frangst.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From davidashcraft at sti.net Wed Jun 30 23:52:32 2010 From: davidashcraft at sti.net (David Ashcraft) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:52:32 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: potassium phosphate In-Reply-To: <80B89D814AFF4589A3C129F4AE0B8F48@Eric64> References: <1C84DF23-7F00-4EC8-AF8F-CB75ECB9B0DB@sharperstill.com><20100627045611.89A0F11BA3F@karen.lavabit.com> <1D2E8FD7-65A7-474B-97C7-43AAC6845AB6@sti.net><391ADF1A-CAE1-4C01-A5E6-DBA662B250C2@sharperstill.com><29EEF303-1E81-48D5-8BDF-E618C104BD79@sti.net><0b7901cb1705$76a6f680$63f4e380$@net> <80B89D814AFF4589A3C129F4AE0B8F48@Eric64> Message-ID: <4FE75975-76F6-4543-B37C-38A90A6361B4@sti.net> My dev is your potassium oxalate with potassium carbonate formula, was wondering if using the oxalic acid alone would make any difference? I have been using a small amt of 5% gold. Also have on hand the BS gold toning kit which I will be mixing up soon and give it a try. This all started when I read of the bluish tones with pt and visualized my winter pics with that. Guess I have my work cut out for me; will let you know what I find. David On Jun 30, 2010, at 10:53 AM, EJ Photo wrote: > David, Neutral is quite a bit cooler than warm. The difference that > I saw > with cold bath was less than that shift. Using both may get you > closer. The > addition of gold can certainly get you cooler yet. > >