[alt-photo] Re: Compelling abstracts

Rajul eyeear at shaw.ca
Tue Mar 16 17:39:29 GMT 2010 

Keith and Harry:

I have not seen the real thing - much too far away from where I am.
I could not find any info on whether the texture was a result of  
alteration of his inkjet prints.

The prints are mounted on galvanized steel or Sintra under plexiglas.

Rajul





On 16-Mar-10, at 5:00 AM, alt-photo-process-list- 
request at lists.altphotolist.org wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Weston Diploma Parchment (EJ Photo)
>    2. Re: Compelling Abstracts (Keith Gerling)
>    3. Re: Compelling Abstracts (Harry Lock)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 07:57:14 -0500
> From: "EJ Photo" <ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'"
> 	<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Weston Diploma Parchment
> Message-ID: <723501C6738C438592CA1CD96D6D8888 at Eric64>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jon,  Been out of town, so sorry for delayed response. Is there any  
> sepia
> toning kits around? that would have the potassium ferricyanide that  
> you need
> to do the test. In my experience, the hair dryer on the front or  
> coated side
> of the paper for about 1 to 2 minutes on medium to low heat at  
> about right.
> Then flip it and get a little closer and do that for about 4 to 6  
> minutes.
> this is based on a 1000 watt hair dryer and working about 1 foot  
> away from
> the surface.
>
> Thinner paper require a lighter touch, so you may not see the heat  
> fog on
> COT 320 that you'd see on the Weston using the same drying technique.
>
> Sorry to hear that you bought premixed solutions as tat does take  
> away from
> one ability to test out slightly different batches of PD to adjust  
> your
> color. The ammonium chloride should not be that hard to come by,  
> but I don't
> know your area at all.
>
> For thin paper you might try a one tray method of processing if you  
> are not
> doing so already. Pour your chemistry into the tray and that will  
> keep you
> from having to pick it up several time. Also a fan out fingers  
> underneath
> the paper allows for easy removal without damage. Make sure you are  
> using a
> flat bottom tray though.
>
> Having ferric work on one paper and not another is not the best way  
> to test
> a solution. I'd still try and add a few pinches of oxalic acid to  
> the FO.
>
>
> Eric Neilsen
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
> skype me with ejprinter
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1
> Let's Talk Photography
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On  
> Behalf Of
> Jon Reid
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:07 AM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Weston Diploma Parchment
>
> Eric,
>
> "The use of a hair dry or other warm air stream, should be used with
> caution around a pt/pd print as you know"
> Well no, I don't know. As I said I was taught to give the coated
> sheet a good going over, both sides, with warm air from a hair dryer
> then rest to restore humidity.
>
> "Also the type of ferric, FO vs AFO will also be a factor"
> Mine is straight FO, from B&S, so far as I know. I kind of feel that
> I have tested the FO. I gave it to a friend who produced a wonderful
> pure palladium print on Cranes natural white wove, the same paper he
> gave a few sheets of to me and I had success with.
>
> "palladium solution with ammonium chloride instead of sodium." My
> palladium solution is the pre-mixed variety from B&S. Sourcing these
> sorts of chemicals is very difficult in Australia. One of our major
> photographic suppliers has just stopped carrying all powder
> chemistry, so even getting cheap citric acid is a chore. Hence my
> reluctance to get stuff like potassium ferrocynide for a test.
>
> I guess I was hoping a whole bunch of people would reply saying
> 'yeah, that paper is kinda crap' and I'd feel OK about trying
> another. I quite like Platine but it is too heavy and white for this
> series of photographs.
>
> To Diana: I have always used a hair dryer on these prints, mostly on
> cool setting until the other night when I switched to warm to really
> dry the bejeesus out of it.
>
> I guess my dilemma is to continue trying to nail the problem, if it
> is indeed nailable or to switch to something else. I only get the
> chance to print every fortnight or so, though I'm going to try and
> make it weekly to make up for lost time. I'm not sure how much longer
> I want to get this paper working right only to find I don't have
> enough left for an edition! The Cranes natural white wove that I
> tested on was quite nice though thinner than the Diploma Parchment
> and therefore very weak when wet. I doubt I could get 11x14 easily in
> Australia.
>
> It's late here, I'm going to bed. Thanks to all list members for your
> valuable suggestions.
>
> Jon
>
> On 09/03/2010, at 4:17 PM, EJ Photo wrote:
>
>> Jon, The use of a hair dry or other warm air stream, should be used
>> with
>> caution around a pt/pd print as you know. The slight front or face
>> drying of
>> the print at a low level, and then a longer back side drying can
>> work with
>> great effectiveness. The resting time, will depend greatly on type
>> of metals
>> used and RH of environment. PD needs moisture much more so than PT
>> to both
>> print with speed and Dmax. So those experiencing lower Dmax may be
>> printing
>> with those conditions. Also the type of ferric, FO vs AFO will also
>> be a
>> factor.
>>
>> Test your ferric with the potassium ferrocynide test, a 1/4
>> teaspoon in  25
>> to 50ml of distilled water. Put a drop or two into the solution. If
>> it turns
>> blue your screwed. If it stays brown, your fine and the longer the
>> better
>> but it too will change.
>>
>> Table salt bath??? well that's a new one on me. If your looking for
>> colder
>> toned prints try making your palladium solution with ammonium  
>> chloride
>> instead of sodium.
>>
>> Eric Neilsen
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>
>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
>> skype me with ejprinter
>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1
>> Let's Talk Photography
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Jon Reid
>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:53 PM
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Weston Diploma Parchment
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Thanks fro all your responses.
>> I didn't put all details into the post of every solution I had tried
>> as it was already getting unwieldy.
>>
>> I lent my sensitizer #1 solution to a friend just two weeks ago who
>> made a beautiful pure palladium print from it. It was made up fairly
>> recently from powdered stock that is <2 years old and always
>> refrigerated. I think it's alright.
>>
>> I'm using the black plastic from bags that silver-gelatin photo
>> papers come packaged in. It is what I normally use (though the last
>> few years I have been printing from digital inter-negatives that have
>> opaque borders and don't require masking.) The plastic is between
>> paper and negative, so piping shouldn't be the cause.
>>
>> With regards to drying the coated paper. I was taught, when I first
>> learnt platinum, to use warm/hot air from a hair dryer then rest the
>> paper to allow it to regain some humidity before exposure. I then
>> subsequently read that some people believe it reduces Dmax and
>> contrast so I started using cool air and or air drying before laying
>> the print on a rack over a bath of saturated salt solution (household
>> table salt). To be honest, that's when I thought the fogging was
>> getting worse. Perhaps it was too humid?
>>
>> I decided to try and simplify my process back to when it used to work
>> for me (when I used Platine), so this time I blasted with warm air,
>> then rested under safelights before exposure. My exposure unit is
>> black light tubes - fairly basic and standard.
>>
>> I tried a fresh batch of developer. I was favouring the 'cold bath'
>> version of KOx as per the Sullivan and Weese book as I don't want too
>> warm a tone however the interesting thing from the tests the other
>> night is that there was little difference in tone between that
>> version and straight KOx used at 21DegC.
>>
>> I gather no one else has had this problem as I have, so maybe it
>> isn't the paper. I'm frustrated to the nth, with 30 or so negs to
>> print for my debut solo show...
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> On 09/03/2010, at 6:54 AM, EJ Photo wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't seen heat fog with that paper. It could very well be an
>>> issue with
>>> Ferric but replacing is NOT always needed. It could very well be  
>>> that
>>> repairing it is in order. It could be a pH issue or all sorts of
>>> stuff. Try
>>> adding some more Oxalic acid to your ferric. Hair dryers should
>>> only be used
>>> lightly and primarily on the backside with low heat.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd suspect the light bleed along the negative material; light
>>> piping. Try
>>> place the mask under it just for a test and see if it stops it. If
>>> you can't
>>> get it to stop, clear, or prevent the distraction of the fog, just
>>> coat the
>>> whole piece of paper. ; )
>>>
>>> have you tried a fresh batch of developer? Is it possible that you
>>> were
>>> playing around with it and had some lithium in the mix?  or gold
>>> that is
>>> fogging it?
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>> Eric Neilsen
>>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>>
>>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
>>> skype me with ejprinter
>>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1
>>> Let's Talk Photography
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>>> Behalf Of
>>> Diana Bloomfield
>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 7:27 AM
>>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Weston Diploma Parchment
>>>
>>> Jon,
>>>
>>> Have you printed any of these without using a hair dryer beforehand?
>>> I'm thinking your problem might be either exhausted ferric oxalate,
>>> and/or use of the hair dryer-- as well as allowing it to sit for an
>>> additional 15 minutes after using the hair dryer(?).  I taught a
>>> workshop once where there was some evidence of fogging, but only for
>>> those people using hair dryers-- even when they set it on a "cool"
>>> setting.  When we eliminated the use of hair dryers, the problem
>>> disappeared.   Just a suggestion, but it's worth a try to switch to
>>> fresh ferric oxalate and skip the hair dryer.  I also think certain
>>> papers are really a disaster for pt/pd.  I used to use, many years,
>>> ago Cranes Platinotype (sp?), and I couldn't completely clear a  
>>> print
>>> on that paper to save my life-- no matter what I used..  I never
>>> liked
>>> the Weston paper, either, but I know I'm in the minority there.  I
>>> just don't like the weight of it.
>>>
>>> Diana
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Jon Reid wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I have been battling a problem for about 6 months now. At first I
>>>> thought it was a clearing problem then after trying various things
>>>> realised that it wasn't clearing but rather some density that was
>>>> appearing in the coated area of the paper that is masked during
>>>> exposure. The paper that I have been trying to print on is Weston
>>>> Diploma Parchment. I bought this paper in early 2008 from Bostick &
>>>> Sullivan and believe it is stock that was made by Cranes, not the
>>>> re-
>>>> invented Diploma Parchment Plat Pal being marketed by John  
>>>> Zowkowski
>>>> of Butler Dearden.
>>>>
>>>> I am wishing to print my 5x7 rollo-pyro negs on these 11x14 sheets
>>>> for my debut solo exhibition. I do not want to mat the prints so I
>>>> am trying for very clear coated-but-masked areas. The other night,
>>>> believing I was dealing with a fogging issue I set up darkroom
>>>> safelights and coated under those lights. I then used a hair dryer
>>>> and rested the paper in the room for 10-15min before exposure  
>>>> (11min
>>>> in my UV box), and developed in KOx (cold bath version-fresh) at
>>>> 21C.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:19:13 -0500
> From: Keith Gerling <keith.gerling at gmail.com>
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> 	<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Compelling Abstracts
> Message-ID:
> 	<98766a901003150719y7e2a5555q2decb117b5683da5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks, Rajul.  I enjoyed these.  Have you ever seen any in  
> person?  Is the
> textural appearance all "photographic", oe have the inkjet prints been
> physically altered?
>
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Rajul <eyeear at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone!
>>
>> Google Nicholas Baier, a photographer from Montreal, P.Q., whose  
>> work is
>> currently on view at the CMCP
>> (Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography). Make sure you have  
>> time
>> enough to take in what he has done.
>> I was thrilled!
>>
>> Rajul_______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:28:06 +0200
> From: "Harry Lock" <harrylock at telkomsa.net>
> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list"
> 	<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Compelling Abstracts
> Message-ID: <4A1571CBDF0D46BA902042A2835B5751 at Harry>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I'd like to know how he sticks the prints onto the materials he  
> uses. Any ideas?
>
> Harry
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Keith Gerling
>   To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>   Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 4:19 PM
>   Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Compelling Abstracts
>
>
>   Thanks, Rajul.  I enjoyed these.  Have you ever seen any in  
> person?  Is the
>   textural appearance all "photographic", oe have the inkjet prints  
> been
>   physically altered?
>
>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Rajul <eyeear at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone!
>>
>> Google Nicholas Baier, a photographer from Montreal, P.Q., whose  
>> work is
>> currently on view at the CMCP
>> (Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography). Make sure you have  
>> time
>> enough to take in what he has done.
>> I was thrilled!
>>
>> Rajul_______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
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