From kmorris at stouffer.net Mon Nov 1 12:58:46 2010 From: kmorris at stouffer.net (Kevin Morris) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 08:58:46 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Copy film (Kodak 4125) In-Reply-To: <6A622B40D22B4C609B2BE535FE277433@Eric64> References: <0147F8F2-E88E-4CB2-842F-3D6FA34980E9@sharperstill.com><20101004075530.1618F11BADB@karen.lavabit.com><1DD552182D3F4AF6AB493B46E6A69CB4@Eric64><20101006051005.064BF11B941@karen.lavabit.com><20101026191614.6E13911B8CB@karen.lavabit.com><003801cb75e1$98931ae0$c9b950a0$@net><20101027163908.F1C5511B8B5@karen.lavabit.com><8F80B86468FC4C808FBD3D9F6945D83D@KevinslapPC><20101027211014.F0BC111B81C@karen.lavabit.com><53D8D82F8AE94436BFBA6ACCB30C4A14@KevinslapPC> <6A622B40D22B4C609B2BE535FE277433@Eric64> Message-ID: <9254F0D142A541A7A1A0E40C79805506@KevinslapPC> I know. 4125 was a very capable film. -----Original Message----- From: EJ Photo Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 11:11 AM To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Copy film (Kodak 4125) I see, so the straight line quality of Ilford ortho works really good for you. The ability of the 4125 that was so nice was being able to have two levels of contrast control; exposure and development. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1 Let's Talk Photography -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Morris Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 7:31 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Copy film (Kodak 4125) No, I wish I were doing platinum printing. I'm using the film to make Stouffer step wedges and various other control targets. _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Tue Nov 2 15:35:06 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 09:35:06 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive In-Reply-To: <002f01cb45c1$6c8bd860$45a38920$@be> References: <002f01cb45c1$6c8bd860$45a38920$@be> Message-ID: <1108B3BA-DB78-4711-BEF4-10DF00FDB544@montana.net> Dear List, I just received Roger's book and it is HUGE. Roger, that must have taken a lot of time to write. It took over 2 months to get to me so don't worry if you've ordered it and it hasn't come yet. My only desire is that I could read the language. Roger, any chance there will ever be a translation? Nice to recognize so many names in there... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 27, 2010, at 2:25 AM, permadocument wrote: > Dear list members, > > Thank you for mentioning my latest publication in Dutch. As already > mentioned there are a number of works by some of our alt practitioners as > well as a some of my own work in the book. > > Jerry Spagnoli (USA) page 115, Rinus Ortelee (NL) page 119 and Grant Romer > page 120 for the daguerreotype > Karel van Gerven (BE) page 138 for the salt print > James Reilly (USA) page 151 for the albumen print > Mark Osterman (USA)page 178 and France Scully (USA? page 1836 for the > ambrotype > Louis Bacou (FR) page 225 for handcoated gelatin zilver > Michel Medinger (LU) page 288 and Francis Schanberger (USA? page 291 for > cyanotype > Stane Kocar (Le) page 298 and Michel Medinger (LU) page 300 for Van Dyke > Marek Matusz (USA) page 303 for Chrysotype > Louis Bacou (FR) page 320 and Ginger Sheridan (USA) page 340 for > platinum-palladium > Christian Nze (FR) page 325 and Sam Wang page 329 for palladium > Paul Steinitz (FR) page 331 for platinum > Marek Matusz (USA/ page 348 and 350 for Satista > Hamish Stewart (GB/ page 364 and Christina Anderson (USA) page 367 for gum > Philippe Berger (BE) page 369 and Dick Sullivan (USA) page 375 for carbon > Bernard Fresson (FR) page 408 for Fresson print > Emmet Gowen (USA) page 479 for EverColor > > Thanks to all of you for your kind words; > > Roger Kockaerts > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de > douglas collins > Envoy? : vendredi 27 ao?t 2010 1:25 > ? : alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Objet : [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive > > Hello all - > > Francis has mentioned he's in this excellent book, by Roger Kockaerts and > Johan Swinnen. It can be ordered quite easily at ASP Editions, whose > English page for the book is here: > > http://aspeditions.be/article.aspx?article_id=ELEMEN258X&langue=en-gb > > The ISBN is 978-90-5487-5406 and the price is 39.95 euros. Kockaerts has > been a major Belgian advocate of historical processes for many years. It's > worth visiting his shop/gallery at Atelier pH7; their web site is > http://www.permadoc.be. If you want, you can even call him up - his cell is > listed. > -- > douglas collins > www.douglascollinspictures.com > cell 646-678-0172 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Tue Nov 2 15:44:33 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 09:44:33 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] tintype Message-ID: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> Dear List, I have just received the bulk tintype developer from Rockland and had a question. There are 3 parts: 1. Dektol 2. Bag of white powder (I think is sodium sulfate) 3. Bottle of liquid which by the MSDSes is either ammonium thiocyanate 50% or sodium thiosulfite 5%. The confusion comes with the labeling of 1. 2. 3. which seems to be different with different kits...unless I am just accessing old files on the web and I am the one confused. Anyone know for sure about this? Anyone mix their own tintype/fogging I assume developer? Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From photographeur at nerdshack.com Wed Nov 3 01:42:28 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2010 21:42:28 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> Message-ID: <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> Chris wrote: >I have just received the bulk tintype developer from Rockland and >had a question. > >There are 3 parts: >1. Dektol >2. Bag of white powder (I think is sodium sulfate) >3. Bottle of liquid which by the MSDSes is either ammonium >thiocyanate 50% or sodium thiosulfite 5%. > >The confusion comes with the labeling of 1. 2. 3. which seems to be >different with different kits...unless I am just accessing old files >on the web and I am the one confused. > >Anyone mix their own tintype/fogging I assume developer? I have made real (wet-plate collodion) tintypes, but have no experience with the Rockland kit, which IIRC (and despite some of Rockland's claims) uses dry plates, made with pre-sensitized liquid gelatin emulsion -- not a wet-plate collodion emulsion that you sensitize with silver nitrate after coating. This is corroborated by the Rockland web site, which indicates that its tintype fixer is Kodak Fixer. For real collodion tintypes, you would need to use potassium cyanide. While Rockland describes its tintype developer as a "reversal developer," tintypes and ambrotypes (like Daguerrotypes) do not actually use reversal processing in the traditional sense of the term. The silver deposits remain negative (i.e., more silver where there was more exposure). The apparent positive "reading" is caused by the black backing and by development that causes the silver deposits to look more whitish than the normal black silver deposits we are familiar with. In the wet-plate collodion process, this is usually accomplished by developing with ferrous sulfate. I think the Rockland kit provides thiocyanate (or maybe tries to get by with thiosulfate) as a developer additive to keep grain size small and promote whitish silver deposits. Thiocyanate is also used as a component of "real" reversal developers, to clean up the highlights; and of holographic developers, to keep the grain small. Sodium sulfate is generally used with gelatin emulsions to prevent excessive swelling of the emulsion. Best regards, etienne From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 3 05:20:23 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 22:20:23 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "etienne garbaux" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype > Chris wrote: > >>I have just received the bulk tintype developer from >>Rockland and had a question. >> >>There are 3 parts: >>1. Dektol >>2. Bag of white powder (I think is sodium sulfate) >>3. Bottle of liquid which by the MSDSes is either ammonium >>thiocyanate 50% or sodium thiosulfite 5%. >> >>The confusion comes with the labeling of 1. 2. 3. which >>seems to be different with different kits...unless I am >>just accessing old files on the web and I am the one >>confused. >> >>Anyone mix their own tintype/fogging I assume developer? > > I have made real (wet-plate collodion) tintypes, but have > no experience with the Rockland kit, which IIRC (and > despite some of Rockland's claims) uses dry plates, made > with pre-sensitized liquid gelatin emulsion -- not a > wet-plate collodion emulsion that you sensitize with > silver nitrate after coating. This is corroborated by the > Rockland web site, which indicates that its tintype fixer > is Kodak Fixer. For real collodion tintypes, you would > need to use potassium cyanide. > > While Rockland describes its tintype developer as a > "reversal developer," tintypes and ambrotypes (like > Daguerrotypes) do not actually use reversal processing in > the traditional sense of the term. The silver deposits > remain negative (i.e., more silver where there was more > exposure). The apparent positive "reading" is caused by > the black backing and by development that causes the > silver deposits to look more whitish than the normal black > silver deposits we are familiar with. In the wet-plate > collodion process, this is usually accomplished by > developing with ferrous sulfate. I think the Rockland kit > provides thiocyanate (or maybe tries to get by with > thiosulfate) as a developer additive to keep grain size > small and promote whitish silver deposits. > > Thiocyanate is also used as a component of "real" reversal > developers, to clean up the highlights; and of holographic > developers, to keep the grain small. Sodium sulfate is > generally used with gelatin emulsions to prevent excessive > swelling of the emulsion. > > Best regards, > > etienne > Are you sure potassium cyanide is necessary for fixing wet plate? My understanding is that ammonium thiosulfate (rapid fixer) has sufficient power to fix out the silver iodide. Thiocyanate would be even more powerful but still safe compared to the cyanide. However, I am just asking that, I agree with your analysis of the Rockland process. Tintype is not a reversal process although its a direct positive process. It relies on the reflectivity of the silver image rather than its density. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Wed Nov 3 09:44:25 2010 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:44:25 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net><20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E22@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "etienne garbaux" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 6:42 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype > > > > is Kodak Fixer. For real collodion tintypes, you would > > need to use potassium cyanide. > > > > etienne > > > Are you sure potassium cyanide is necessary for fixing > wet plate? My understanding is that ammonium thiosulfate > (rapid fixer) has sufficient power to fix out the silver > iodide. Thiocyanate would be even more powerful but still > safe compared to the cyanide. > However, I am just asking that, I agree with your > analysis of the Rockland process. Tintype is not a reversal > process although its a direct positive process. It relies on > the reflectivity of the silver image rather than its > density. > > -- > Richard Knoppow > Los Angeles, CA, USA > dickburk at ix.netcom.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo Potassium Cyanide is absolutely NOT needed for producing Tintypes, "ordinairy" rapid fix or plain hypo work equally well but have different properties. It might be that in the reenactment scene KCN is the only accepted fixer. The differences between said fixers it mainly the resulting image colour, the KCN fixer being the warmest (caf?-au-lait), KCN gives somewhat more punch, deeper blacks, also because it will bleach a silver image (leaving a plate in KCN will eventually completely bleached away). KCN fixes very fast, has a high capacity and is said to wash out very fast (have yet to see a real proof of that often mentioned fact). OTOH KCN is a deadly toxic compound and in contact with acid it will produce HCN gas which will kill easily..so it is up to each user to decide on the pro's and con's On the Rockland kit: as mentioned before it is a bit of a misnomer, and thusfar I have read mainly bad things about it..sorry.. Best, Cor From info at permadocument.be Wed Nov 3 10:20:51 2010 From: info at permadocument.be (permadocument) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:20:51 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive In-Reply-To: <1108B3BA-DB78-4711-BEF4-10DF00FDB544@montana.net> References: <002f01cb45c1$6c8bd860$45a38920$@be> <1108B3BA-DB78-4711-BEF4-10DF00FDB544@montana.net> Message-ID: <000c01cb7b40$cabc1bc0$60345340$@be> Dear Christine and list members, Yes it took about 2 years. It should never be translated because in the English (and French) bibliography the subject has been sufficiently covered. Why not learn dutch? (joking). Thank all of you for your support; Warm greetings, Roger Roger Kockaerts portable: 0473 58 49 31 Atelier pH7 7 rue des Balkans B-1180 Brussels www.permadocument.be -----Message d'origine----- De?: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de Christina Anderson Envoy??: mardi 2 novembre 2010 16:35 ??: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Objet?: [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive Dear List, I just received Roger's book and it is HUGE. Roger, that must have taken a lot of time to write. It took over 2 months to get to me so don't worry if you've ordered it and it hasn't come yet. My only desire is that I could read the language. Roger, any chance there will ever be a translation? Nice to recognize so many names in there... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 27, 2010, at 2:25 AM, permadocument wrote: > Dear list members, > > Thank you for mentioning my latest publication in Dutch. As already > mentioned there are a number of works by some of our alt practitioners as > well as a some of my own work in the book. > > Jerry Spagnoli (USA) page 115, Rinus Ortelee (NL) page 119 and Grant Romer > page 120 for the daguerreotype > Karel van Gerven (BE) page 138 for the salt print > James Reilly (USA) page 151 for the albumen print > Mark Osterman (USA)page 178 and France Scully (USA? page 1836 for the > ambrotype > Louis Bacou (FR) page 225 for handcoated gelatin zilver > Michel Medinger (LU) page 288 and Francis Schanberger (USA? page 291 for > cyanotype > Stane Kocar (Le) page 298 and Michel Medinger (LU) page 300 for Van Dyke > Marek Matusz (USA) page 303 for Chrysotype > Louis Bacou (FR) page 320 and Ginger Sheridan (USA) page 340 for > platinum-palladium > Christian Nze (FR) page 325 and Sam Wang page 329 for palladium > Paul Steinitz (FR) page 331 for platinum > Marek Matusz (USA/ page 348 and 350 for Satista > Hamish Stewart (GB/ page 364 and Christina Anderson (USA) page 367 for gum > Philippe Berger (BE) page 369 and Dick Sullivan (USA) page 375 for carbon > Bernard Fresson (FR) page 408 for Fresson print > Emmet Gowen (USA) page 479 for EverColor > > Thanks to all of you for your kind words; > > Roger Kockaerts > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de > douglas collins > Envoy? : vendredi 27 ao?t 2010 1:25 > ? : alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Objet : [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive > > Hello all - > > Francis has mentioned he's in this excellent book, by Roger Kockaerts and > Johan Swinnen. It can be ordered quite easily at ASP Editions, whose > English page for the book is here: > > http://aspeditions.be/article.aspx?article_id=ELEMEN258X&langue=en-gb > > The ISBN is 978-90-5487-5406 and the price is 39.95 euros. Kockaerts has > been a major Belgian advocate of historical processes for many years. It's > worth visiting his shop/gallery at Atelier pH7; their web site is > http://www.permadoc.be. If you want, you can even call him up - his cell is > listed. > -- > douglas collins > www.douglascollinspictures.com > cell 646-678-0172 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From mineurdecharbon at skynet.be Wed Nov 3 10:40:53 2010 From: mineurdecharbon at skynet.be (Philippe Berger) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:40:53 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive References: <002f01cb45c1$6c8bd860$45a38920$@be><1108B3BA-DB78-4711-BEF4-10DF00FDB544@montana.net> <000c01cb7b40$cabc1bc0$60345340$@be> Message-ID: <99A6B4617E984F82AEE0E1145A83D756@philbrgrf70d3e> Why not Nederland, French and Deuch 3 languages of Belgium and also a examplary of all the Photograph inside on the book Philippe Philippe Berger mineurdecharbon at skynet.be http://www.philippeberger.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "permadocument" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:20 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive Dear Christine and list members, Yes it took about 2 years. It should never be translated because in the English (and French) bibliography the subject has been sufficiently covered. Why not learn dutch? (joking). Thank all of you for your support; Warm greetings, Roger Roger Kockaerts portable: 0473 58 49 31 Atelier pH7 7 rue des Balkans B-1180 Brussels www.permadocument.be -----Message d'origine----- De : alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de Christina Anderson Envoy? : mardi 2 novembre 2010 16:35 ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list Objet : [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive Dear List, I just received Roger's book and it is HUGE. Roger, that must have taken a lot of time to write. It took over 2 months to get to me so don't worry if you've ordered it and it hasn't come yet. My only desire is that I could read the language. Roger, any chance there will ever be a translation? Nice to recognize so many names in there... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 27, 2010, at 2:25 AM, permadocument wrote: > Dear list members, > > Thank you for mentioning my latest publication in Dutch. As already > mentioned there are a number of works by some of our alt practitioners as > well as a some of my own work in the book. > > Jerry Spagnoli (USA) page 115, Rinus Ortelee (NL) page 119 and Grant Romer > page 120 for the daguerreotype > Karel van Gerven (BE) page 138 for the salt print > James Reilly (USA) page 151 for the albumen print > Mark Osterman (USA)page 178 and France Scully (USA? page 1836 for the > ambrotype > Louis Bacou (FR) page 225 for handcoated gelatin zilver > Michel Medinger (LU) page 288 and Francis Schanberger (USA? page 291 for > cyanotype > Stane Kocar (Le) page 298 and Michel Medinger (LU) page 300 for Van Dyke > Marek Matusz (USA) page 303 for Chrysotype > Louis Bacou (FR) page 320 and Ginger Sheridan (USA) page 340 for > platinum-palladium > Christian Nze (FR) page 325 and Sam Wang page 329 for palladium > Paul Steinitz (FR) page 331 for platinum > Marek Matusz (USA/ page 348 and 350 for Satista > Hamish Stewart (GB/ page 364 and Christina Anderson (USA) page 367 for gum > Philippe Berger (BE) page 369 and Dick Sullivan (USA) page 375 for carbon > Bernard Fresson (FR) page 408 for Fresson print > Emmet Gowen (USA) page 479 for EverColor > > Thanks to all of you for your kind words; > > Roger Kockaerts > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de > douglas collins > Envoy? : vendredi 27 ao?t 2010 1:25 > ? : alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Objet : [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive > > Hello all - > > Francis has mentioned he's in this excellent book, by Roger Kockaerts and > Johan Swinnen. It can be ordered quite easily at ASP Editions, whose > English page for the book is here: > > http://aspeditions.be/article.aspx?article_id=ELEMEN258X&langue=en-gb > > The ISBN is 978-90-5487-5406 and the price is 39.95 euros. Kockaerts has > been a major Belgian advocate of historical processes for many years. It's > worth visiting his shop/gallery at Atelier pH7; their web site is > http://www.permadoc.be. If you want, you can even call him up - his cell is > listed. > -- > douglas collins > www.douglascollinspictures.com > cell 646-678-0172 > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5587 (20101103) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From zphoto at montana.net Wed Nov 3 14:38:57 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 08:38:57 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <02108BD6-981D-46D9-A6C8-902695C1BC9C@montana.net> Yes, Etienne, You are right, the Rockland kit is not "real" tintype but liquid emulsion. I should have also clarified that the thiocyanate or the thiosufite as it may be is mixed IN the developer along with the other two. In other words, none of the three solutions are used to fix, they are all mixed together and used to develop. Fixer is separate. I know from chromo that the thiocyanate is the chemical responsible for essentially fogging the paper in the absence of room light (according to Jolly) so my guess is the mixture of the three chemicals is responsible for fogging and producing that characteristic milky/brown tone on the modern tintype. However, I still cannot find if it is a 50% am thio or 5% sod thiosulfite. That is what I am interested in. Some make-do tintype developers just tell you to mix exhausted paper fixer into the dektol as well. I have a call into Rockloid and also an email but no response yet. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:42 PM, etienne garbaux wrote: > Chris wrote: > >> I have just received the bulk tintype developer from Rockland and had a question. >> >> There are 3 parts: >> 1. Dektol >> 2. Bag of white powder (I think is sodium sulfate) >> 3. Bottle of liquid which by the MSDSes is either ammonium thiocyanate 50% or sodium thiosulfite 5%. >> >> The confusion comes with the labeling of 1. 2. 3. which seems to be different with different kits...unless I am just accessing old files on the web and I am the one confused. >> >> Anyone mix their own tintype/fogging I assume developer? > > I have made real (wet-plate collodion) tintypes, but have no experience with the Rockland kit, which IIRC (and despite some of Rockland's claims) uses dry plates, made with pre-sensitized liquid gelatin emulsion -- not a wet-plate collodion emulsion that you sensitize with silver nitrate after coating. This is corroborated by the Rockland web site, which indicates that its tintype fixer is Kodak Fixer. For real collodion tintypes, you would need to use potassium cyanide. > > While Rockland describes its tintype developer as a "reversal developer," tintypes and ambrotypes (like Daguerrotypes) do not actually use reversal processing in the traditional sense of the term. The silver deposits remain negative (i.e., more silver where there was more exposure). The apparent positive "reading" is caused by the black backing and by development that causes the silver deposits to look more whitish than the normal black silver deposits we are familiar with. In the wet-plate collodion process, this is usually accomplished by developing with ferrous sulfate. I think the Rockland kit provides thiocyanate (or maybe tries to get by with thiosulfate) as a developer additive to keep grain size small and promote whitish silver deposits. > > Thiocyanate is also used as a component of "real" reversal developers, to clean up the highlights; and of holographic developers, to keep the grain small. Sodium sulfate is generally used with gelatin emulsions to prevent excessive swelling of the emulsion. > > Best regards, > > etienne > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Wed Nov 3 17:51:10 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 11:51:10 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: OK finally talked with Rockland. I called sales and not technical help--that was the trick :) Packet 1. Dektol Packet 2. sodium sulfate Sol 3. IS 50% ammonium thiocyanate. So we'll see how it goes tomorrow with 18 students learning this process at once--with digital contact negatives no less :) Chris PS Etienne, I reread your post and now realize you did know it was all mixed together--sorry for the confusion of my last post. But what you said seems accurate given what I have seen of tintypes and their characteristic whiteish appearance. Thanks. Etienne said : While Rockland describes its tintype developer as a "reversal developer," tintypes and ambrotypes (like Daguerrotypes) do not actually use reversal processing in the traditional sense of the term. The silver deposits remain negative (i.e., more silver where there was more exposure). The apparent positive "reading" is caused by the black backing and by development that causes the silver deposits to look more whitish than the normal black silver deposits we are familiar with. In the wet-plate collodion process, this is usually accomplished by developing with ferrous sulfate. I think the Rockland kit provides thiocyanate (or maybe tries to get by with thiosulfate) as a developer additive to keep grain size small and promote whitish silver deposits. Thiocyanate is also used as a component of "real" reversal developers, to clean up the highlights; and of holographic developers, to keep the grain small. Sodium sulfate is generally used with gelatin emulsions to prevent excessive swelling of the emulsion. Best regards, etienne From awschmitt at embarqmail.com Thu Nov 4 13:54:07 2010 From: awschmitt at embarqmail.com (Andy Schmitt) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 09:54:07 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 294, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: WOW...You got them to give up the secret formula... You ARE good! We've used this at Peters Valley Craft Center off and on for years & it works pretty well. Please make sure what ever you're coating is clean...really clean.... & have a great time. I know your students will.. (try it in a pinhole camera...) Regards Andy Schmitt ================================================ Message: 2 From: Christina Anderson Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype OK finally talked with Rockland. I called sales and not technical help--that was the trick :) Packet 1. Dektol Packet 2. sodium sulfate Sol 3. IS 50% ammonium thiocyanate. So we'll see how it goes tomorrow with 18 students learning this process at once--with digital contact negatives no less :) Chris PS Etienne, I reread your post and now realize you did know it was all mixed together--sorry for the confusion of my last post. But what you said seems accurate given what I have seen of tintypes and their characteristic whiteish appearance. Thanks. From zphoto at montana.net Thu Nov 4 14:28:15 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 08:28:15 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 294, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> Andy, No, not so powerful: the MSDSes are on the web with the ingredients, but there is confusion in the marking of Solution 1, 2, 3 between the kits which is what I had to clarify with Rockland. It was more of a panic than a power because I have to have MSDSes on hand when I teach in case there is some disaster and a student flicks something into their eye. I am legally required to add the MSDSes to this notebook BEFORE I show the process. There is a big difference between a 5% thio and a 50% thiocyanate, in other words....and the white powder....who knows what it might have been. But at the same time, I am finding this a fascinating study--between tintype and chromo and Dalla Tana's process which I don't know--and the possibility of chromoing tintype which maybe I'll find out this week if all goes well. But I will make up my own tintype developer and see if a) it is cheaper and b) it works and c) is it worth the extra trouble...probably not. But I have all the chemicals in my cupboard anyway and an approx of what the measurements should be. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 4, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Andy Schmitt wrote: > WOW...You got them to give up the secret formula... You ARE good! > > We've used this at Peters Valley Craft Center off and on for years & it > works pretty well. > Please make sure what ever you're coating is clean...really clean.... > & have a great time. I know your students will.. > (try it in a pinhole camera...) > Regards > Andy Schmitt > > ================================================ > > Message: 2 > From: Christina Anderson > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype > OK finally talked with Rockland. I called sales and not technical help--that > was the trick :) > > Packet 1. Dektol > Packet 2. sodium sulfate > Sol 3. IS 50% ammonium thiocyanate. > > So we'll see how it goes tomorrow with 18 students learning this process at > once--with digital contact negatives no less :) Chris > > PS Etienne, I reread your post and now realize you did know it was all mixed > together--sorry for the confusion of my last post. But what you said seems > accurate given what I have seen of tintypes and their characteristic > whiteish appearance. Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From gneissgirl at icehouse.net Thu Nov 4 14:56:24 2010 From: gneissgirl at icehouse.net (Mary Donato) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 08:56:24 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> Message-ID: <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> Chris, Please let us know about your results when you have a chance to make and test your reversal developer recipe. I had a lot of fun a couple of years ago making dry-plate tintypes with the Rockland kit (in-camera, tiny, square format things, so cute). Then I ran out of developer :( and everything came to a screeching halt. I didn't want to order a gallon, and it's pretty expensive, anyway. As I recall, the shelf life of the developer is fairly short. I didn't have any joy with the exhausted fixer thing. So I'd love to be able to make small batches of developer. Bet I'm not the only one, too! Thanks for sharing the info! Cheers, Mary http://alternative-ego.com On 11/4/2010 8:28 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Andy, > No, not so powerful: the MSDSes are on the web with the ingredients, but there is confusion in the marking of Solution 1, 2, 3 between the kits which is what I had to clarify with Rockland. It was more of a panic than a power because I have to have MSDSes on hand when I teach in case there is some disaster and a student flicks something into their eye. I am legally required to add the MSDSes to this notebook BEFORE I show the process. > > There is a big difference between a 5% thio and a 50% thiocyanate, in other words....and the white powder....who knows what it might have been. > > But at the same time, I am finding this a fascinating study--between tintype and chromo and Dalla Tana's process which I don't know--and the possibility of chromoing tintype which maybe I'll find out this week if all goes well. > > But I will make up my own tintype developer and see if a) it is cheaper and b) it works and c) is it worth the extra trouble...probably not. But I have all the chemicals in my cupboard anyway and an approx of what the measurements should be. > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Nov 4, 2010, at 7:54 AM, Andy Schmitt wrote: > From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 4 19:02:12 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 12:02:12 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Donato" To: Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes > Chris, > > Please let us know about your results when you have a > chance to make and test your reversal developer recipe. > I had a lot of fun a couple of years ago making dry-plate > tintypes with the Rockland kit (in-camera, tiny, square > format things, so cute). > Then I ran out of developer :( and everything came to a > screeching halt. > I didn't want to order a gallon, and it's pretty > expensive, anyway. As I recall, the shelf life of the > developer is fairly short. I didn't have any joy with the > exhausted fixer thing. So I'd love to be able to make > small batches of developer. Bet I'm not the only one, too! > Thanks for sharing the info! > > Cheers, > Mary > > http://alternative-ego.com > I think the Rockland tintype process is not a reversal process. However, the silver solvent in the developer may be there for the same purpose as in a reversal first developer, namely to eliminate veiling due to very fine silver particles that are not removed in fixing. Tintypes rely on the reflectivity of the silver image itself. A similar effect can be seen in very thin negatives made using extra-fine-grain developers like Microdol-X or Perceptol, that is that there is a weak positive image by reflected light. If you are interested in actual reversal processes there is some guidance in the old formulas for reversal development of motion picture film, very commonly done for home movies. Because most reversal was done for the purpose of direct viewing or projection the processes were designed to produce a gamma of around 1.0 or even a bit higher, and the highest density the film of which the film was capable. It _is_ possible to modify the process for lower contrast. One would want that for instance for making duplicate negatives directly from a negative. The nature of the process is such that the first developer should be formulated for the particular film its going to be used on. The first developer is usually a high contrast type and usually contains a silver solvent such as a thiocyanate or thiosulfate. The purpose of this is to prevent veiling of the highlights by residual silver halide particles which are so insensitive to light that they are not exposed during the image exposure. If left in the emulsion they will become developable in the second developer due to the fogging step and will cause a veil in the highlights. The use of the solvent substantially increases the speed of the film when used for reversal. The amount needed depends on the emulsion and must be determined by experiment. I have a number of old formulas for reversal processing and will post them if anyone is interested. However, the first developers are similar to Kodak D-19 or even Dektol with the solvent added, and the second developer is the same thing without the solvent, or sodium sulfide if one wants a sepia image. If a sulfide second developer is used no fogging step is necessary. Bleach is a conventional dichromate type. Reversal can also be used for printing paper. I believe the old coin photo machines used a reversal paper. Virtually any negative emulsion can be reversal processed but I think the old motion picture films for home movies had emulsions designed to yield the necessary density and contrast for projection. A problem with many 35mm negative films is that they contain a pigment in the support for the purpose of reducing the conduction of light laterally through the support (light piping). This pigment is not removed during processing, and indeed, can not be removed. It adds some density to the resultant positive essentially cutting down screen brightness when projected. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From photographeur at nerdshack.com Wed Nov 3 16:47:46 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 12:47:46 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> Richard wrote: >Are you sure potassium cyanide is necessary for fixing wet plate? My >understanding is that ammonium thiosulfate (rapid fixer) has >sufficient power to fix out the silver iodide. Thiocyanate would be >even more powerful but still safe compared to the cyanide. Because of the non-permeable nature of collodion, and the fact that fixing is done when the plate is essentially dry and the pores in the collodion are closed, the most powerful fixer available is indicated. It is true that some modern practitioners believe ammonium thiosulfate is adequate. There has been some literature in the conservation world questioning that belief. I guess we'll have a better idea in 150 years. Until then, I, for one, will use potassium cyanide. Best regards, etienne From alt.list at albertonovo.it Fri Nov 5 07:25:33 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 08:25:33 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> Message-ID: <20101105072533.14497.qmail@webmaildh2.aruba.it> Richard, > I have a number of old formulas for reversal processing and will post > them if anyone is interested. I am interested as a collector of formulas, though I probably would never use them. But -who knows?- once in my life I could have a particular need and it is better to look at a personal list of formulas than searching in many books. If you post them adding also the reference it will be the icing on the cake. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Fri Nov 5 09:24:04 2010 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 10:24:04 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net><20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> > > Because of the non-permeable nature of collodion, and the fact that > fixing is done when the plate is essentially dry and the pores in the > collodion are closed, the most powerful fixer available is > indicated. ?? Never heard this one, could you elaborate Etienne? The cyclus I (and anybody else I heard, seen or read about) use is pour the collodion salt emulsion on a plate (be it Trophy aluminium for Tin type or glass for ambrotype) let it dry up just a bit, put it in the sensitizing tank with silver nitrate, clean and place in holder and expose. Develop with FerricSulphate/Acetic acid, stop with water , rinse for 30 sec. with fresh water and the plate is than placed in the KCN fixer. So the plate stays wet all the time, I do not see why the pores should/could close and plate would be dry. That occasionally can happen if you life in a very dry climate or used to much time between exposure and development. On ammoniumthiosulphate: it definitely clears a plate, and most people fix for twice that clearing time. Granted it's unknown what realy happens, but I am not too worried. Best, Cor It is true that some modern practitioners believe > ammonium thiosulfate is adequate. There has been some literature in > the conservation world questioning that belief. I guess we'll have a > better idea in 150 years. Until then, I, for one, will use potassium > cyanide. > > Best regards, > > etienne From vedos at samk.fi Fri Nov 5 09:51:41 2010 From: vedos at samk.fi (Vedos) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 11:51:41 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> , <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: Hi, Collodion is not non-permeable during the process because it is kept wet. That's why the process is wet plate collodion, it doesn't work if the collodion dries. The plate is not "essentially dry" during fixing -- it is very wet. The normal method is to rinse the plate after developing, and then immediately fix the plate. For a fixer, sodium or ammonium thiosulfate is perfectly fine... there's no reason to use potassium cyanide, especially for negatives, but for ambrotypes cyanide will introduce a little more punch, they say... Best regards, Jalo -- If you only look at what is, you might never attain what could be -- V E D O S Alternative Photographic Processes Satakunta University of Applied Sciences vedos at samk.fi http://vedos.samk.fi http://www.samk.fi ________________________________________ From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of etienne garbaux [photographeur at nerdshack.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 6:47 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype Richard wrote: >Are you sure potassium cyanide is necessary for fixing wet plate? My >understanding is that ammonium thiosulfate (rapid fixer) has >sufficient power to fix out the silver iodide. Thiocyanate would be >even more powerful but still safe compared to the cyanide. Because of the non-permeable nature of collodion, and the fact that fixing is done when the plate is essentially dry and the pores in the collodion are closed, the most powerful fixer available is indicated. It is true that some modern practitioners believe ammonium thiosulfate is adequate. There has been some literature in the conservation world questioning that belief. I guess we'll have a better idea in 150 years. Until then, I, for one, will use potassium cyanide. Best regards, etienne _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Fri Nov 5 14:41:06 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 08:41:06 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> Message-ID: <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> Richard, Yes, it is not a reversal developer but my guess is a fogging developer that fogs where the more silver is deposited (in the shadows of the image on the negative image on the plate since you print from a positive which in turn then makes the negative parts of the image lighter and the highlights which is what they should be). But the confusion is that Rockland LABELS their tintype developer "reversal" developer, so that is why Mary calls it that. Mary, you know me, I "tell all"....so when I write it up I'll let you know. I have figured out that the cost to make your own is about $14 to Rockland's $25 per gallon so honestly unless one is into chems I think Rockland is the way to go--in other words, is your time mixing and ordering worth that extra $11? Although, mixing your own small batches--yes that would be cheaper for sure. The gang lab tintype--let me tell you I am NUTS. It was a gang lab, 18 students, both tintype on metal of course and then liquid emulsion on paper. First there were not enough red safelights working so we were really in the dark. Then can you imagine that many students coating and drying tintype plates? What a mess. BUT the blessing is that once I nailed in the exposure time for the digital contact negative a la PDN, we could immediately print out every tintype plate at that exact time (I had printed each student's negative in the previous lab so those were ready to go). With two trays of developer set up we could develop all immediately one after the other, too. Then the next problem, where to wash 18 delecate plates with no touching. Oh my. I always learn all kinds of problems the first time I do a gang lab. Anything that can go wrong will. Including one student printing another student's negative on her tintype because you really can't see a red digineg under red safelight. At least it looked good! Then, the Rockland developer worked like a total charm. Only problem was the evenness and thickness of coating and the adherence to the metal. We did sand with 600 grit paper lightly, but we really needed to probably varnish the plates, too. Nevertheless, the resulting tintypes looked great, very evocative, and the purpose of making the students experience tintype was achieved. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 4, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Mary Donato wrote: > Chris, > > Please let us know about your results when you have a chance to make and test your reversal developer recipe. > I had a lot of fun a couple of years ago making dry-plate tintypes with the Rockland kit (in-camera, tiny, square format things, so cute). > Then I ran out of developer :( and everything came to a screeching halt. > I didn't want to order a gallon, and it's pretty expensive, anyway. As I recall, the shelf life of the developer is fairly short. I didn't have any joy with the exhausted fixer thing. So I'd love to be able to make small batches of developer. Bet I'm not the only one, too! > Thanks for sharing the info! > > Cheers, > Mary > > http://alternative-ego.com From watsok at gmail.com Fri Nov 5 15:02:51 2010 From: watsok at gmail.com (Kenneth Watson) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 09:02:51 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 295, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am fairly certain that the pores remain open in the wet plate process until the collodion is allowed to dry. As an experiment sensitize a plate, let it dry and THEN try to fix it. It stays yellow. When wet all the compounds are water soluble and the porosity allows their reactions. When dry, the process quits working, I believe because there are no pores open. Actually, Fixing is not really required. I have tested a few variations...lets say maybe a mistake or two and discovered that IF you do not fix your wet plate, Ambrotype, and leave it in a water bath out in the sun, the sensitized portion that was not exposed eventually turns black. The developed portion of the image remains reflective and the unexposed area is very black. Obviously not usefull as a negative. The images looked high quality to me. There is zero information about making images this way in any literature that I can find. If you decide to use this method please keep me updated on your results. It has been a while since I did this. There are also ways of getting a red color / tinge on your wet plate image as well. Not with Cyanide though. Ken Watson From gneissgirl at icehouse.net Fri Nov 5 15:52:31 2010 From: gneissgirl at icehouse.net (Mary Donato) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 09:52:31 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> Message-ID: <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> OK, now I see. Thanks for the explanation, Chris, and thanks again, Richard, for the additional information. I don't mind the $25 vs $14 but I really don't want to waste a large part of the gallon if it must all be mixed at once. It's probably not something I'll do consistently but once in a while I get a "bug" to play around with something like tintypes. Is it practical to weigh out a fraction (say one-half or one-third) of each component and just mix a partial batch? You are brave (and yes, maybe nuts, too) to do this with a class of 18, Chris. Yikes. Sounds intense, but fun! Again, thanks for sharing. Cheers, Mary On 11/5/2010 8:41 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Richard, > Yes, it is not a reversal developer but my guess is a fogging developer that fogs where the more silver is deposited (in the shadows of the image on the negative image on the plate since you print from a positive which in turn then makes the negative parts of the image lighter and the highlights which is what they should be). But the confusion is that Rockland LABELS their tintype developer "reversal" developer, so that is why Mary calls it that. > > Mary, you know me, I "tell all"....so when I write it up I'll let you know. I have figured out that the cost to make your own is about $14 to Rockland's $25 per gallon so honestly unless one is into chems I think Rockland is the way to go--in other words, is your time mixing and ordering worth that extra $11? Although, mixing your own small batches--yes that would be cheaper for sure. > > The gang lab tintype--let me tell you I am NUTS. It was a gang lab, 18 students, both tintype on metal of course and then liquid emulsion on paper. First there were not enough red safelights working so we were really in the dark. Then can you imagine that many students coating and drying tintype plates? What a mess. BUT the blessing is that once I nailed in the exposure time for the digital contact negative a la PDN, we could immediately print out every tintype plate at that exact time (I had printed each student's negative in the previous lab so those were ready to go). With two trays of developer set up we could develop all immediately one after the other, too. Then the next problem, where to wash 18 delecate plates with no touching. Oh my. > > I always learn all kinds of problems the first time I do a gang lab. Anything that can go wrong will. Including one student printing another student's negative on her tintype because you really can't see a red digineg under red safelight. At least it looked good! > > Then, the Rockland developer worked like a total charm. > > Only problem was the evenness and thickness of coating and the adherence to the metal. We did sand with 600 grit paper lightly, but we really needed to probably varnish the plates, too. > > Nevertheless, the resulting tintypes looked great, very evocative, and the purpose of making the students experience tintype was achieved. > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Nov 4, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Mary Donato wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> Please let us know about your results when you have a chance to make and test your reversal developer recipe. >> I had a lot of fun a couple of years ago making dry-plate tintypes with the Rockland kit (in-camera, tiny, square format things, so cute). >> Then I ran out of developer :( and everything came to a screeching halt. >> I didn't want to order a gallon, and it's pretty expensive, anyway. As I recall, the shelf life of the developer is fairly short. I didn't have any joy with the exhausted fixer thing. So I'd love to be able to make small batches of developer. Bet I'm not the only one, too! >> Thanks for sharing the info! >> >> Cheers, >> Mary >> >> http://alternative-ego.com > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > -- "Wag more, bark more, bite less" From photographeur at nerdshack.com Fri Nov 5 17:58:43 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2010 13:58:43 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod. intern> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: <20101105175848.C55EE34E592@karen.lavabit.com> Cor wrote: >So the plate stays wet all the time, I do not see why the pores >should/could close and plate would be dry. That occasionally can >happen if you life in a very dry climate or used to much time >between exposure and development. Jalo wrote: >Collodion is not non-permeable during the process because it is kept >wet. That's why the process is wet plate collodion, it doesn't work >if the collodion dries. The plate is not "essentially dry" during >fixing -- it is very wet. There are two drying mechanisms at work, and both are continuums ("more" and "less," not "wet" and "dry"). The collodion itself is drying by the rapid evaporation of the solvents (alcohol and ether), and the remaining water from the silver nitrate sensitizing bath is also evaporating. It is the former, more rapid, drying that changes the permeability of the collodion. The collodion is still quite "gooey" when it is sensitized, so the silver nitrate solution penetrates the collodion and forms silver halide not just on the surface but to a moderate depth. However, the collodion solvents evaporate rapidly, so the collodion is considerably drier by the time it has been exposed than it was when it was sensitized, and the developer and fixer have a much more difficult time reaching the same depth notwithstanding any remaining water from the sensitizing bath. Hence the need for a very aggressive fixer. A collodion plate should not be "very wet" when it is loaded into a plate holder -- one would properly describe a plate that is ready to expose as "quite damp," and plates are usually fairly dry by the time they have been exposed and are placed in the developer. (Of course they are "very wet" when they go into the fixer, having just been developed and washed -- but that has no bearing on the previous drying of the collodion.) Best regards, etienne From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Sat Nov 6 14:27:31 2010 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:27:31 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net><20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com><20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com><1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> <20101105175848.C55EE34E592@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AA010327F9@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org namens etienne garbaux Verzonden: vr 5-11-2010 18:58 Aan: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Onderwerp: [alt-photo] Re: tintype Cor wrote: >So the plate stays wet all the time, I do not see why the pores >should/could close and plate would be dry. That occasionally can >happen if you life in a very dry climate or used to much time >between exposure and development. Jalo wrote: >Collodion is not non-permeable during the process because it is kept >wet. That's why the process is wet plate collodion, it doesn't work >if the collodion dries. The plate is not "essentially dry" during >fixing -- it is very wet. There are two drying mechanisms at work, and both are continuums ("more" and "less," not "wet" and "dry"). The collodion itself is drying by the rapid evaporation of the solvents (alcohol and ether), and the remaining water from the silver nitrate sensitizing bath is also evaporating. It is the former, more rapid, drying that changes the permeability of the collodion. The collodion is still quite "gooey" when it is sensitized, so the silver nitrate solution penetrates the collodion and forms silver halide not just on the surface but to a moderate depth. However, the collodion solvents evaporate rapidly, so the collodion is considerably drier by the time it has been exposed than it was when it was sensitized, and the developer and fixer have a much more difficult time reaching the same depth notwithstanding any remaining water from the sensitizing bath. Hence the need for a very aggressive fixer. .............................. Sorry Etienne, I am not buying this, all the stuff I have read have never mentioned this (I would be gladly corrected by you if you have scientific references), and my own experience tells me that development is extremly fast, an overexposed plate pops up in just 1-2 seconds after covered by developper..granted it might be surface development only, do not know that. Also fixing with fresh standard rapid fix shows that the completly unexposed parts are visually fixed in 20-30 seconds, another in 30 seconds are added for safety, leaving a very clear collodion layer in the (unexposed) deep shadows. I agree that KCN is much more aggresive and faster with higher capacity Best, Cor A collodion plate should not be "very wet" when it is loaded into a plate holder -- one would properly describe a plate that is ready to expose as "quite damp," and plates are usually fairly dry by the time they have been exposed and are placed in the developer. (Of course they are "very wet" when they go into the fixer, having just been developed and washed -- but that has no bearing on the previous drying of the collodion.) Best regards, etienne _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Sat Nov 6 14:53:59 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 08:53:59 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> Message-ID: <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> Here at the Main Trophy Supply URL do you all buy the buffed bright, brushed/satin, or opaque aluminum? Or is there no difference? It looks like in the Rockland kit it is the brushed/satin. I bought buffed bright for the class. We sanded it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper and cleaned with sodium carbonate, and adherence was pretty good for most who were careful, but I am thinking it would be best to use a varnish or maybe buy the brushed satin type. Second question: do you sub it with polyurethane spray glossy or semi gloss varnish or gelatin? Or nothing? Jill Enfield uses metal plates sprayed with flat black paint I see... Chris http://maintrophysupply.com/aluminum.htm From photographeur at nerdshack.com Sat Nov 6 15:55:51 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:55:51 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AA010327F9@mailh.lumcnet.pro d.intern> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> <20101105175848.C55EE34E592@karen.lavabit.com> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AA010327F9@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: <20101106155553.955B834E58A@karen.lavabit.com> Cor wrote: >I am not buying this, all the stuff I have read have never mentioned >this (I would be gladly corrected by you if you have scientific >references), and my own experience tells me that development is >extremly fast, an overexposed plate pops up in just 1-2 seconds >after covered by developper..granted it might be surface development >only, do not know that. > >Also fixing with fresh standard rapid fix shows that the completly >unexposed parts are visually fixed in 20-30 seconds, another in 30 >seconds are added for safety, leaving a very clear collodion layer >in the (unexposed) deep shadows. If you search the conservation literature, you will find a number of references questioning the archivality of thiosulfate-fixed collodion images. I may have several of the papers around here somewhere, but if I wanted them I'd do a literature search rather than trying to find them. And yes, the development is all on the surface (several conservation articles present electron microscope sections of collodion photos that show this very clearly), because by the time development occurs the developer cannot penetrate the collodion very well or very far. For this same reason, neither can the fixer -- and therein lies the problem. Feel free to use thiosulfate, and I understand that quite a few current practitioners do. But as I said before, it won't be known if it really did the job until we are long dead. (Perhaps not such a bad thing, actually -- IMO, relatively few photographs deserve to survive for centuries.) The collodion negatives, prints, ambrotypes, and tintypes I made starting in the late '60s are all doing fine so far (all fixed in KCN). Best regards, etienne From kerik at kerik.com Sat Nov 6 16:34:29 2010 From: kerik at kerik.com (Kerik) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 09:34:29 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> Message-ID: <7419DE05-EE10-42FB-A971-3751AC22F25F@kerik.com> Buffed bright. No subbing. Just peel and pour. Kerik Sent from my iPhone On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > > Here at the Main Trophy Supply URL do you all buy the buffed bright, brushed/satin, or opaque aluminum? Or is there no difference? > > It looks like in the Rockland kit it is the brushed/satin. I bought buffed bright for the class. We sanded it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper and cleaned with sodium carbonate, and adherence was pretty good for most who were careful, but I am thinking it would be best to use a varnish or maybe buy the brushed satin type. > > Second question: do you sub it with polyurethane spray glossy or semi gloss varnish or gelatin? Or nothing? > > Jill Enfield uses metal plates sprayed with flat black paint I see... > > Chris > > http://maintrophysupply.com/aluminum.htm > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Sat Nov 6 16:39:34 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:39:34 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <7419DE05-EE10-42FB-A971-3751AC22F25F@kerik.com> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> <7419DE05-EE10-42FB-A971-3751AC22F25F@kerik.com> Message-ID: <18B6A2A4-A27E-4422-89D1-416720F880E8@montana.net> Thank you Kerik!! I am writing up a handout right now as we speak. Info to follow... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Kerik wrote: > Buffed bright. No subbing. Just peel and pour. > > Kerik > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > >> >> Here at the Main Trophy Supply URL do you all buy the buffed bright, brushed/satin, or opaque aluminum? Or is there no difference? >> >> It looks like in the Rockland kit it is the brushed/satin. I bought buffed bright for the class. We sanded it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper and cleaned with sodium carbonate, and adherence was pretty good for most who were careful, but I am thinking it would be best to use a varnish or maybe buy the brushed satin type. >> >> Second question: do you sub it with polyurethane spray glossy or semi gloss varnish or gelatin? Or nothing? >> >> Jill Enfield uses metal plates sprayed with flat black paint I see... >> >> Chris >> >> http://maintrophysupply.com/aluminum.htm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kerik at kerik.com Sat Nov 6 16:50:08 2010 From: kerik at kerik.com (Kerik Kouklis) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 09:50:08 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <18B6A2A4-A27E-4422-89D1-416720F880E8@montana.net> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> <7419DE05-EE10-42FB-A971-3751AC22F25F@kerik.com> <18B6A2A4-A27E-4422-89D1-416720F880E8@montana.net> Message-ID: <004f01cb7dd2$ad9ec9e0$08dc5da0$@kerik.com> I should add that what I said applies to real tintypes (collodion), not the rockland stuff. I've never used that. Kerik -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Christina Anderson Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:40 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes Thank you Kerik!! I am writing up a handout right now as we speak. Info to follow... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Kerik wrote: > Buffed bright. No subbing. Just peel and pour. > > Kerik > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > >> >> Here at the Main Trophy Supply URL do you all buy the buffed bright, brushed/satin, or opaque aluminum? Or is there no difference? >> >> It looks like in the Rockland kit it is the brushed/satin. I bought buffed bright for the class. We sanded it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper and cleaned with sodium carbonate, and adherence was pretty good for most who were careful, but I am thinking it would be best to use a varnish or maybe buy the brushed satin type. >> >> Second question: do you sub it with polyurethane spray glossy or semi gloss varnish or gelatin? Or nothing? >> >> Jill Enfield uses metal plates sprayed with flat black paint I see... >> >> Chris >> >> http://maintrophysupply.com/aluminum.htm >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Sat Nov 6 16:57:00 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:57:00 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <004f01cb7dd2$ad9ec9e0$08dc5da0$@kerik.com> References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> <7419DE05-EE10-42FB-A971-3751AC22F25F@kerik.com> <18B6A2A4-A27E-4422-89D1-416720F880E8@montana.net> <004f01cb7dd2$ad9ec9e0$08dc5da0$@kerik.com> Message-ID: Yes, I know--I think, although I could be mistaken so please correct me, that the collodion could be more adherent than the liquid emulsion, but it helps still to know that you use that particular plate. I had students who had no problem with the emulsion adhering and then students who had it completely fall off so as always, practice makes (more) perfect. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Kerik Kouklis wrote: > I should add that what I said applies to real tintypes (collodion), not the > rockland stuff. I've never used that. > > Kerik > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of > Christina Anderson > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:40 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes > > Thank you Kerik!! I am writing up a handout right now as we speak. Info to > follow... > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Kerik wrote: > >> Buffed bright. No subbing. Just peel and pour. >> >> Kerik >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: >> >>> >>> Here at the Main Trophy Supply URL do you all buy the buffed bright, > brushed/satin, or opaque aluminum? Or is there no difference? >>> >>> It looks like in the Rockland kit it is the brushed/satin. I bought > buffed bright for the class. We sanded it lightly with 600 grit sandpaper > and cleaned with sodium carbonate, and adherence was pretty good for most > who were careful, but I am thinking it would be best to use a varnish or > maybe buy the brushed satin type. >>> >>> Second question: do you sub it with polyurethane spray glossy or semi > gloss varnish or gelatin? Or nothing? >>> >>> Jill Enfield uses metal plates sprayed with flat black paint I see... >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> http://maintrophysupply.com/aluminum.htm >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kerik at kerik.com Sat Nov 6 16:58:54 2010 From: kerik at kerik.com (Kerik Kouklis) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 09:58:54 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: References: <3BEE3A00-9934-4B7C-935C-66BCC10A7E8B@montana.net> <4CD2C998.7070808@icehouse.net> <0860CC9D-1373-4359-94AE-2070438228AB@montana.net> <4CD4283F.1080203@icehouse.net> <2CA3E7AB-74E1-4BD3-A4BF-EFD4F56FDD35@montana.net> <7419DE05-EE10-42FB-A971-3751AC22F25F@kerik.com> <18B6A2A4-A27E-4422-89D1-416720F880E8@montana.net> <004f01cb7dd2$ad9ec9e0$08dc5da0$@kerik.com> Message-ID: <005001cb7dd3$e5c27910$b1476b30$@kerik.com> I'll assume that's correct because I've never had adherence problems with the trophy aluminum AT ALL. Collodion sticks to it much better than glass. Kerik -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Christina Anderson Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:57 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes Yes, I know--I think, although I could be mistaken so please correct me, that the collodion could be more adherent than the liquid emulsion, but it helps still to know that you use that particular plate. I had students who had no problem with the emulsion adhering and then students who had it completely fall off so as always, practice makes (more) perfect. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Kerik Kouklis wrote: > I should add that what I said applies to real tintypes (collodion), > not the rockland stuff. I've never used that. > > Kerik > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On > Behalf Of Christina Anderson > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 9:40 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes > > Thank you Kerik!! I am writing up a handout right now as we speak. > Info to follow... > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Kerik wrote: > >> Buffed bright. No subbing. Just peel and pour. >> >> Kerik >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Nov 6, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: >> >>> >>> Here at the Main Trophy Supply URL do you all buy the buffed bright, > brushed/satin, or opaque aluminum? Or is there no difference? >>> >>> It looks like in the Rockland kit it is the brushed/satin. I bought > buffed bright for the class. We sanded it lightly with 600 grit > sandpaper and cleaned with sodium carbonate, and adherence was pretty > good for most who were careful, but I am thinking it would be best to > use a varnish or maybe buy the brushed satin type. >>> >>> Second question: do you sub it with polyurethane spray glossy or >>> semi > gloss varnish or gelatin? Or nothing? >>> >>> Jill Enfield uses metal plates sprayed with flat black paint I see... >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> http://maintrophysupply.com/aluminum.htm >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From kthayer at pacifier.com Sat Nov 6 20:45:03 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 12:45:03 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Minneapolis show Message-ID: <64F1EF54-EB10-4D81-9C98-AF8D57A4184B@pacifier.com> If this has already been mentioned, I apologize, but I don't remember seeing an announcement here. There's a nice alternative show that opened in Minneapolis last night, juried by Keith Taylor. There's some fine work there, including a very nice tricolor gum print by Diana Bloomfield, and there are probably others on the list represented as well. The slideshow on the site just has images, not names (except for the award winners) so I don't know who else on the list is in the show, but it's a very nice selection of alternative process work. From kthayer at pacifier.com Sat Nov 6 20:46:12 2010 From: kthayer at pacifier.com (Katharine Thayer) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 12:46:12 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Oops, forgot the link Message-ID: http://www.mplsphotocenter.com/exhibits/current- exhibits.php#alternatives From frangst at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 20:06:42 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 13:06:42 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Minneapolis show In-Reply-To: <64F1EF54-EB10-4D81-9C98-AF8D57A4184B@pacifier.com> References: <64F1EF54-EB10-4D81-9C98-AF8D57A4184B@pacifier.com> Message-ID: One of my students, Christine Zuercher, also on the list, got an Honorable Mention in that exhibition. She did a tricolor gum. -francis schanberger On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Katharine Thayer wrote: > If this has already been mentioned, I apologize, but I don't remember > seeing an announcement here. There's a nice alternative show that opened in > Minneapolis last night, juried by Keith Taylor. There's some fine work > there, including a very nice tricolor gum print by Diana Bloomfield, and > there are probably others on the list represented as well. The slideshow on > the site just has images, not names (except for the award winners) so I > don't know who else on the list is in the show, but it's a very nice > selection of alternative process work. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.frangst.com From earlj at comcast.net Sat Nov 6 20:11:18 2010 From: earlj at comcast.net (Earl and Patty Johnson) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:11:18 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Alternatives: Uncommon and Unconventional Processes 2010 (Minneapolis Photo Center) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <167F934E-E0B1-4170-BC78-9E0C81C45BE6@comcast.net> I attended the opening last night, and the show is a good one. Everything from simple glass plate ambrotypes to sewn fabric and fused glass. Keith Taylor did a fine job of selecting images to represent the depth and breadth of the alternative photography universe, while avoiding precious moments. I will not list my favorites, as I might leave out someone who might take offense. If you are in the Twin Cities between now and December 7, stop by the Minneapolis Photo Center and view a fine show. Earl Johnson On Nov 6, 2010, at 3:46 PM, Katharine Thayer wrote: > http://www.mplsphotocenter.com/exhibits/current-exhibits.php#alternatives > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From vedos at samk.fi Sat Nov 6 20:29:44 2010 From: vedos at samk.fi (Vedos) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 22:29:44 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype In-Reply-To: <20101106155553.955B834E58A@karen.lavabit.com> References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net> <20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com> <20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern> <20101105175848.C55EE34E592@karen.lavabit.com> <1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AA010327F9@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern>, <20101106155553.955B834E58A@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: How will it be known if the cyanide did the job then, until we are long dead? Actually, with cyanide we can easily be soon dead! We do wpc with students, but never think of using potassium cyanide in these conditions! The fixing has been done both with cyanide and hypo from the beginning... here's what John Towler recommends in his "Silver Sunbeam", from 1864, chapter 17: "Cyanide of potassium is not only a solvent of the silver salts above mentioned, but also a reducing agent; it thus produces in the ambrotype and the melainotype a whiteness in the silver film which can not be effected with hyposulphite of silver. For this reason it is regarded by many photographers as the fixing agent peculiarly adapted for collodion positives by reflected light; whereas in the negative, where the whiteness of the silver film is of little or no consequence, hyposulphite of soda is regarded as the proper fixer. Many photographers disregard these refined distinctions, and use, in consequence of the superior solvent properties of cyanide of potassium, this substance as a fixing agent indifferently for negatives and positives. But because cyanide of potassium dissolves the silver salts so easily, it has to be used in a dilute condition, and to be watched very closely, otherwise it will dissolve at the same time the fine parts of the image." Best regards, Jalo -- If you only look at what is, you might never attain what could be -- V E D O S Alternative Photographic Processes Satakunta University of Applied Sciences vedos at samk.fi http://vedos.samk.fi http://www.samk.fi ________________________________________ From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of etienne garbaux [photographeur at nerdshack.com] Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 5:55 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype Cor wrote: >I am not buying this, all the stuff I have read have never mentioned >this (I would be gladly corrected by you if you have scientific >references), and my own experience tells me that development is >extremly fast, an overexposed plate pops up in just 1-2 seconds >after covered by developper..granted it might be surface development >only, do not know that. > >Also fixing with fresh standard rapid fix shows that the completly >unexposed parts are visually fixed in 20-30 seconds, another in 30 >seconds are added for safety, leaving a very clear collodion layer >in the (unexposed) deep shadows. If you search the conservation literature, you will find a number of references questioning the archivality of thiosulfate-fixed collodion images. I may have several of the papers around here somewhere, but if I wanted them I'd do a literature search rather than trying to find them. And yes, the development is all on the surface (several conservation articles present electron microscope sections of collodion photos that show this very clearly), because by the time development occurs the developer cannot penetrate the collodion very well or very far. For this same reason, neither can the fixer -- and therein lies the problem. Feel free to use thiosulfate, and I understand that quite a few current practitioners do. But as I said before, it won't be known if it really did the job until we are long dead. (Perhaps not such a bad thing, actually -- IMO, relatively few photographs deserve to survive for centuries.) The collodion negatives, prints, ambrotypes, and tintypes I made starting in the late '60s are all doing fine so far (all fixed in KCN). Best regards, etienne _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 6 21:59:10 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 14:59:10 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype References: <0A811DA4-F879-49D8-B6E7-7473A428A4E4@montana.net><20101103014230.A559911B8B3@karen.lavabit.com><20101104234015.87EEB15754E@karen.lavabit.com><1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AAA45E29@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern><20101105175848.C55EE34E592@karen.lavabit.com><1FE362630FC8FA4EBE5B48CB301588AA010327F9@mailh.lumcnet.prod.intern>, <20101106155553.955B834E58A@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <411BFAB37CF54200AC532775E1D0619B@VALUED20606295> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vedos" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 1:29 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintype > How will it be known if the cyanide did the job then, > until we are long dead? Actually, with cyanide we can > easily be soon dead! We do wpc with students, but never > think of using potassium cyanide in these conditions! > > The fixing has been done both with cyanide and hypo from > the beginning... here's what John Towler recommends in his > "Silver Sunbeam", from 1864, chapter 17: > > "Cyanide of potassium is not only a solvent of the silver > salts above mentioned, but also a reducing agent; it thus > produces in the ambrotype and the melainotype a whiteness > in the silver film which can not be effected with > hyposulphite of silver. For this reason it is regarded by > many photographers as the fixing agent peculiarly adapted > for collodion positives by reflected light; whereas in the > negative, where the whiteness of the silver film is of > little or no consequence, hyposulphite of soda is regarded > as the proper fixer. Many photographers disregard these > refined distinctions, and use, in consequence of the > superior solvent properties of cyanide of potassium, this > substance as a fixing agent indifferently for negatives > and positives. But because cyanide of potassium dissolves > the silver salts so easily, it has to be used in a dilute > condition, and to be watched very closely, otherwise it > will dissolve at the same time the fine parts of the > image." > > Best regards, > Jalo > For gelatin emulsion the degree of fixing is easy to determine by the use of a test solution of either sodium sulfide or Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner. They would probably also work on a collodion negative or ambrotype print. Unless the dried collodion is _so_ impermeable that no soltion of any sort can penetrate it. I wonder about that because even cellulose nitrate and cellulose acetate film support swell in water a little during processing and then shrink when dry. That's why motion picture film came in two perforation pitches, i.e., so that raw stock would match the processed negative when printing. I did do some searching for articles on the archival processing of wet plate negatives but could find nothing specific. There is quite a bit on preservation of ambrotypes, which are evidently quite vulnerable to chemical attack but I am not at all sure if this applies to collodion on glass. I don't know if Ryuji Suzuki still follows this list but he might have authoritative information. AFAIK the use of potassium cyanide as a fixer continued only because the use of thiosulfate was not well known. BTW, it appears that the collodion sensitive layer, and indeed cellulose nitrate and acetate support are actual emulsions where the gelatin sensitive layer is a suspension and not an emulsion. I remember attending a technical paper given by Technicolor many years ago where the speaker kept referring to the "emulsion". He confused everyone because he was talking about the _support_ not the sensitive layer. Someone finally managed to get him to clarify that. The term "emulsion" has become so well established for the gelatin sensitive layer that the practice will never change. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From viapiano at pacbell.net Sat Nov 6 22:07:50 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 15:07:50 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alternatives: Uncommon and Unconventional Processes2010 (Minneapolis Photo Center) References: <167F934E-E0B1-4170-BC78-9E0C81C45BE6@comcast.net> Message-ID: I love the online slide show...! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl and Patty Johnson" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Alternatives: Uncommon and Unconventional Processes2010 (Minneapolis Photo Center) >I attended the opening last night, and the show is a good one. Everything >from simple glass plate ambrotypes to sewn fabric and fused glass. Keith >Taylor did a fine job of selecting images to represent the depth and >breadth of the alternative photography universe, while avoiding precious >moments. I will not list my favorites, as I might leave out someone who >might take offense. If you are in the Twin Cities between now and December >7, stop by the Minneapolis Photo Center and view a fine show. > > Earl Johnson > > > On Nov 6, 2010, at 3:46 PM, Katharine Thayer wrote: > >> http://www.mplsphotocenter.com/exhibits/current-exhibits.php#alternatives >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From watsok at gmail.com Sat Nov 6 23:45:07 2010 From: watsok at gmail.com (Kenneth Watson) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 17:45:07 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 296, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: etienne, I expect you are aware that Ethyl Ether and Ethyl Alcohol are water soluble? When you place a poured plate into the silver nitrate bath, Osmosis moves water into the collodion combining with the ether and alcohol, bringing the silver nitrate along that combines with bromine and iodine. From this point on it is more water based chemistry to develop and diluting / replacing the ether and alcohol that was in the collodion. The sensitized collodion is essentially a membrane due to the water soluable chemistry of which it is comprised. The only time I even consider how "wet" my poured plate is at the extremes of temperature. When it is close to freezing and one is working outside it takes the most of a minute wait between poring and the placing the plate into the silver bath to prevent lift. When it is above 90 degrees F The plate goes into the bath as fast as I can get it there. I have never had any issue that I could track to how wet the plate may be out of the silver bath. Just let it drain a bit and put it in my holder. From photographeur at nerdshack.com Sun Nov 7 04:12:58 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 00:12:58 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101107041300.E5CDB11B78B@karen.lavabit.com> Kenneth wrote: >When it is close to freezing and one is working outside it takes the >most of a minute wait between poring and the placing the plate into >the silver bath to prevent lift In cold weather, 19th century practitioners used candles to warm their plates prior to pouring the collodion. I have warmed plates, too, but NOT with a flame in a confined space with collodion! >I have never had any issue that I could track to how wet the plate >may be out of the silver bath. Just let it drain a bit and put it in my holder. If there is standing surface water when you load the plate, you can sometimes see the prismatic effects of uneven sheeting in the exposed media. I have seen this in the work of neo-wet plate practitioners, but never that I can recall in original 19th century work -- leading me to conclude that at least some modern practitioners have been taught to load plates much wetter than their 19th century forbears ever did. But in general, it's just a matter of how much of a mess you are willing to make of your plate holders and camera. Best regards, etienne From jazoti at optonline.net Sun Nov 7 16:33:26 2010 From: jazoti at optonline.net (joe) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 11:33:26 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: tintypes In-Reply-To: <20101107041300.E5CDB11B78B@karen.lavabit.com> References: <20101107041300.E5CDB11B78B@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <2D6B11160478448BAFFABD1FF4E135A6@JoePC> etienne, I'm not sure if the message you sent,"Kenneth wrote" was for my benefit or someone else's. I did enjoy reading it. Just joined the group last night. What I'm looking for is how to get a density reading off an APHS neg, that has been enlarged from a 4x5, in order to make a kallitype or cyan. Have a spot meter and a photo step tablet.Any suggestions? joe >>When it is close to freezing and one is working outside it takes the most >>of a minute wait between poring and the placing the plate into the silver >>bath to prevent lift > > In cold weather, 19th century practitioners used candles to warm their > plates prior to pouring the collodion. I have warmed plates, too, but NOT > with a flame in a confined space with collodion! > >>I have never had any issue that I could track to how wet the plate may be >>out of the silver bath. Just let it drain a bit and put it in my holder. > > If there is standing surface water when you load the plate, you can > sometimes see the prismatic effects of uneven sheeting in the exposed > media. I have seen this in the work of neo-wet plate practitioners, but > never that I can recall in original 19th century work -- leading me to > conclude that at least some modern practitioners have been taught to load > plates much wetter than their 19th century forbears ever did. But in > general, it's just a matter of how much of a mess you are willing to make > of your plate holders and camera. > > Best regards, > > etienne > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jazoti at optonline.net Sun Nov 7 17:21:58 2010 From: jazoti at optonline.net (joe) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 12:21:58 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Negative Density Message-ID: <061487AA957442E998A37C467DEDC9CF@JoePC> Hope you can help. Am trying to get negative densities, off of APHS film so I can make kallitypes and cyans. Have a spot meter. Have a Kodak photographic step tab. #3(believe it the same as a stouffer) Is this possible? or am I going to have to look for a densitometer. thank you joe azoti From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 7 20:40:32 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 12:40:32 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Negative Density References: <061487AA957442E998A37C467DEDC9CF@JoePC> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 9:21 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Negative Density > Hope you can help. > Am trying to get negative densities, off of APHS film so I > can make kallitypes and cyans. > Have a spot meter. > Have a Kodak photographic step tab. #3(believe it the same > as a stouffer) > > Is this possible? or am I going to have to look for a > densitometer. > thank you > > joe azoti A decent densitometer is of course best but one can get pretty good density estimations by visual comparison to a calibrated step wedge provided the two can be side by side. While the eye is not good at comparisons of brightness by memory it is very good at matching density or color where the two are side by side, in fact, the oil-spot type of densitometer works on this principle. A spot type exposure meter will work provided it can read small enough areas and can be calibrated for density against the step wedge. Years ago Weston Instrument made a simple densitometer consisiting of a light source and a large diameter photocell with a cone-shaped fitting mounted on an arm. It had a meter calibrated in density. Any exposure meter could be used for this sort of densitometer with something like a light table as the light source. Because the effective density of negatives is affected by the nature of the light source the densitometer source should match the type to be used in printing. That is, whether it is specular (collimated) or diffuse. Depending on the nature of the film densities measured with a collimated light source will be higher than those measured with a diffuse source. This is called the Callier effect and is the reason that diffusion enlargers print with lower contrast than condenser ones. In any case you can probably get a sufficiently good estimate by visual comparison to a calibrated step wedge. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From photographeur at nerdshack.com Mon Nov 8 00:18:44 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:18:44 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Spot meter as densitometer In-Reply-To: <2D6B11160478448BAFFABD1FF4E135A6@JoePC> References: <20101107041300.E5CDB11B78B@karen.lavabit.com> <2D6B11160478448BAFFABD1FF4E135A6@JoePC> Message-ID: <20101108001847.6D95A11B8BB@karen.lavabit.com> Joe wrote: >What I'm looking for is how to get a density reading off an APHS >neg, that has been enlarged from a 4x5, in order to make a kallitype or cyan. >Have a spot meter and a photo step tablet.Any suggestions? Phil Davis showed how to use a spotmeter as a makeshift densitometer in his book. If you Google "spotmeter densitometer" you will find, among other things, some of the relevant pages in Google Books. Essentially, you put a close-up lens on the spotmeter and read the area of interest with the spotmeter. You have to be careful to minimize flare and to make sure the light source provides very consistent lighting. You can calibrate the system using the step tablet. Best regards, etienne From jacqueskv at gmail.com Mon Nov 8 01:10:53 2010 From: jacqueskv at gmail.com (Jacques Kevers) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 02:10:53 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Negative Density In-Reply-To: References: <061487AA957442E998A37C467DEDC9CF@JoePC> Message-ID: Years ago, the Gossen Profisix meter had an accessory that originally was intended for taking measures on the ground glass of view cameras: the "Profi-Flex" that could be used as kind of a densitometer. See http://www.butkus.org/chinon/flashes_meters/gossen_profi-flex/gossen_profi-flex.htm The remarks about light source characteristics are completely justified, of course... Best, Jacques 2010/11/7 Richard Knoppow > A decent densitometer is of course best but one can get pretty good > density estimations by visual comparison to a calibrated step wedge provided > the two can be side by side. While the eye is not good at comparisons of > brightness by memory it is very good at matching density or color where the > two are side by side, in fact, the oil-spot type of densitometer works on > this principle. > A spot type exposure meter will work provided it can read small enough > areas and can be calibrated for density against the step wedge. Years ago > Weston Instrument made a simple densitometer consisiting of a light source > and a large diameter photocell with a cone-shaped fitting mounted on an arm. > It had a meter calibrated in density. Any exposure meter could be used for > this sort of densitometer with something like a light table as the light > source. > Because the effective density of negatives is affected by the nature of > the light source the densitometer source should match the type to be used in > printing. That is, whether it is specular (collimated) or diffuse. Depending > on the nature of the film densities measured with a collimated light source > will be higher than those measured with a diffuse source. This is called the > Callier effect and is the reason that diffusion enlargers print with lower > contrast than condenser ones. > In any case you can probably get a sufficiently good estimate by visual > comparison to a calibrated step wedge. > From botanic88 at hotmail.co.uk Tue Nov 9 12:49:26 2010 From: botanic88 at hotmail.co.uk (Mike and Jan Andrews) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:49:26 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] How does alum hardening work? Message-ID: I have been trying to find out how alum or chrome alum harden gelatine, but with no success! My guess is that alums form colloidal hydroxides and that these hydroxides have the opposite charge to gelatine. So they coagulate. This explanation ties in with the fact that alum hardening only works within certain pH ranges. I also guess that the same thing occurs when ferric chloride is added to gum arabic and hardens it. In this case the colour changes from yellow to brown, which I guess is ferric hydroxide. And ferric hydroxide is known to exist in a colloidal state. It would be helpful if someone could either confirm my guesses or shoot them down in a constructive manner! Michael Andrews From geoff at geoffgallery.net Tue Nov 9 21:48:38 2010 From: geoff at geoffgallery.net (Geoff Chaplin) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 06:48:38 +0900 Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole Message-ID: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> List members and friends, I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole photography exhibition in London. Details below: CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool Street, Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm Sat, Sun. Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints (approx. 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole Sunrise and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html I look forward to meeting you if you can come. Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 From jazoti at optonline.net Wed Nov 10 19:14:07 2010 From: jazoti at optonline.net (joe) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 14:14:07 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: <329101CAE0154F378C073280EA2532C4@JoePC> Geoff: There is a small pond standing in the way,of attending your opening unfortunatly. WOW, 22x30. They all must be beautiful expressions of the moment.Congratulations.. hOPE that this is just one of lifetime of "shows". joe azoti Connecticut, USA ton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool Street, > Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm > Sat, > Sun. > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > (approx. > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole Sunrise > and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > ?????????? > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From e.camerling at tiscali.nl Wed Nov 10 20:05:28 2010 From: e.camerling at tiscali.nl (Erich Camerling) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:05:28 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Fwd: RE: wavelength UV in X-rite 361T Message-ID: <4CDAFB08.5010700@tiscali.nl> Dear Mister Camerling, the center wavelength in the UV-mode is at 380nm. Please find attached a PDF with the response curve. Best regards, Jochen Mohr -----Original Message----- From: Erich Camerling [mailto:e.camerling at tiscali.nl] Sent: Montag, 1. November 2010 12:25 To: Info-Germany Subject: wavelength UV in X-rite 361T Dear employee, Please,can you tell me at what wavelength the X-rite 361T will measure in the UV-mode ? Yours sincerely, Erich Camerling From jazoti at optonline.net Thu Nov 11 00:51:39 2010 From: jazoti at optonline.net (joe) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 19:51:39 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> Geoff, I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it computer generated? thanks, joe azoti ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Chaplin" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > List members and friends, > > > > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole > photography exhibition in London. Details below: > > > > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY > > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool > Street, > Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm > Sat, > Sun. > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > (approx. > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole Sunrise > and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > ?????????? > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From geoff at geoffgallery.net Wed Nov 10 23:05:40 2010 From: geoff at geoffgallery.net (Geoff Chaplin) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:05:40 +0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> Message-ID: <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Joe, 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film (yes, development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls and its much cheaper than normal film. I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked with computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole Geoff, I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it computer generated? thanks, joe azoti ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Chaplin" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > List members and friends, > > > > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole > photography exhibition in London. Details below: > > > > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY > > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool > Street, > Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm > Sat, > Sun. > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > (approx. > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole Sunrise > and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > ?????????? > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From tom at sobota.net Thu Nov 11 13:21:16 2010 From: tom at sobota.net (Tomas Sobota) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:21:16 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: Hi Geoff, I should say that the development is tricky! Do you use some formula (like the one by Dave Soemarko) to keep the lith contrast manageable? Tom 2010/11/11 Geoff Chaplin > Joe, > > 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film (yes, > development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls and its much > cheaper than normal film. > > I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked with > computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. > > Geoff Chaplin > ?????????? > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > www.geoffgallery.net > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf > Of > joe > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > > Geoff, > I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it computer > generated? > thanks, > joe azoti > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Chaplin" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > > > List members and friends, > > > > > > > > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole > > photography exhibition in London. Details below: > > > > > > > > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY > > > > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool > > Street, > > Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm > > Sat, > > Sun. > > > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > > (approx. > > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole Sunrise > > and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > > > ?????????? > > > > > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From geoff at geoffgallery.net Thu Nov 11 05:55:51 2010 From: geoff at geoffgallery.net (Geoff Chaplin) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 14:55:51 +0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: <000b01cb8165$19809bd0$4c81d370$@geoffgallery.net> Tom, I tried Soemarko with no success, together with some other formulae from the "Darkroom Cookbook". What I found works well - and everyone who has worked with lith film tells me this is all wrong - is the following. 1. Pre-flash the lith film 1 sec at f32.5: I needed this to get the low tones 2. Expose through the inter-positive at f22 for 30 sec 3. Develop in D163 diluted 1:10 with rapid agitation for 1m. Stop, fix and wash as normal. That gives me a density range of about 1.5 which is fine for multiple layer gum printing, and keeps the mid tones quite well. The density curve isn't a straight line but, hey, its character I'm seeking. The dilute D163 goes off quickly so you need to keep making new batches for every half dozen or so sheets. The alternative - I think Terry's favourite (no doubt he'll correct me if I'm wrong) - is simply to contact print back onto more RC paper. That works fine at the expense of longer printing times. Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Tomas Sobota Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 10:21 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole Hi Geoff, I should say that the development is tricky! Do you use some formula (like the one by Dave Soemarko) to keep the lith contrast manageable? Tom 2010/11/11 Geoff Chaplin > Joe, > > 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film > (yes, development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls > and its much cheaper than normal film. > > I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked > with computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. > > Geoff Chaplin > ?????????? > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > www.geoffgallery.net > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (?????? ?): +81(0) > 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On > Behalf Of joe > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > > Geoff, > I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it > computer generated? > thanks, > joe azoti > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Chaplin" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > > > List members and friends, > > > > > > > > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole > > photography exhibition in London. Details below: > > > > > > > > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY > > > > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool > > Street, Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm > > Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm Sat, Sun. > > > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > > (approx. > > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole > > Sunrise and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > > > ?????????? > > > > > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From e.camerling at tiscali.nl Thu Nov 11 15:48:19 2010 From: e.camerling at tiscali.nl (Erich Camerling) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:48:19 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] something went wrong Message-ID: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> Yesterday I sent an E-mail with attachment to the list but this attachment didn't work correct .I don't know why but in text I can tell you that the UV measurement from the Xrite 361 T works with a wavelength from 420 till 330 nm. Peak (100%) 380 nm,50% : 360 and 395 nm, 0% : 330 and 420 nm.So the 361 T doesn't work very well for EPSON Ultrachrome (K3) inks because their maximums are around 350 nm. See www.albertonovo.it/scan/epson_inks.html. Erich Camerling From ender100 at aol.com Thu Nov 11 16:15:09 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:15:09 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: something went wrong In-Reply-To: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> Message-ID: <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> Erich, interesting information Can you elaborate on the info that "Epson K3 inks maximums are around 350 nm"? Any source info you can site for this? Thanks! Best Wishes, Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com PDNPrintForum @ Yahoo Groups/ -----Original Message----- From: Erich Camerling To: alt-photo-process- list Sent: Thu, Nov 11, 2010 10:48 am Subject: [alt-photo] something went wrong Yesterday I sent an E-mail with attachment to the list but this attachment didn't work correct .I don't know why but in text I can tell you that the UV measurement from the Xrite 361 T works with a wavelength from 420 till 330 nm. Peak (100%) 380 nm,50% : 360 and 395 nm, 0% : 330 and 420 nm.So the 361 T doesn't work very well for EPSON Ultrachrome (K3) inks because their maximums are around 350 nm. See www.albertonovo.it/scan/epson_inks.html. Erich Camerling _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From davidh6180483 at googlemail.com Thu Nov 11 17:14:16 2010 From: davidh6180483 at googlemail.com (David Hatton) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 17:14:16 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <000b01cb8165$19809bd0$4c81d370$@geoffgallery.net> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> <000b01cb8165$19809bd0$4c81d370$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: Many Many congratulations on your success. Davidh On 11/11/10, Geoff Chaplin wrote: > Tom, > > I tried Soemarko with no success, together with some other formulae from the > "Darkroom Cookbook". What I found works well - and everyone who has worked > with lith film tells me this is all wrong - is the following. > 1. Pre-flash the lith film 1 sec at f32.5: I needed this to get the low > tones > 2. Expose through the inter-positive at f22 for 30 sec > 3. Develop in D163 diluted 1:10 with rapid agitation for 1m. Stop, fix and > wash as normal. > That gives me a density range of about 1.5 which is fine for multiple layer > gum printing, and keeps the mid tones quite well. The density curve isn't a > straight line but, hey, its character I'm seeking. > > The dilute D163 goes off quickly so you need to keep making new batches for > every half dozen or so sheets. > > The alternative - I think Terry's favourite (no doubt he'll correct me if > I'm wrong) - is simply to contact print back onto more RC paper. That works > fine at the expense of longer printing times. > > Geoff Chaplin > ?????????? > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > www.geoffgallery.net > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of > Tomas Sobota > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 10:21 PM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > Hi Geoff, > > I should say that the development is tricky! Do you use some formula (like > the one by Dave Soemarko) to keep the lith contrast manageable? > > Tom > > 2010/11/11 Geoff Chaplin > >> Joe, >> >> 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film >> (yes, development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls >> and its much cheaper than normal film. >> >> I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked >> with computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. >> >> Geoff Chaplin >> ?????????? >> >> geoff at geoffgallery.net >> www.geoffgallery.net >> >> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (?????? > ?): +81(0) >> 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 > 5855 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org >> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On >> Behalf Of joe >> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole >> >> >> Geoff, >> I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it >> computer generated? >> thanks, >> joe azoti >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Geoff Chaplin" >> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM >> Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole >> >> >> > List members and friends, >> > >> > >> > >> > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole >> > photography exhibition in London. Details below: >> > >> > >> > >> > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY >> > >> > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool >> > Street, Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm >> > Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm Sat, Sun. >> > >> > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints >> > (approx. >> > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole >> > Sunrise and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html >> > >> > >> > >> > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. >> > >> > >> > >> > Geoff Chaplin >> > >> > ?????????? >> > >> > >> > >> > geoff at geoffgallery.net >> > >> > www.geoffgallery.net >> > >> > >> > >> > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >> > >> > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >> > >> > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >> > >> > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From d.klinker at ntlworld.com Thu Nov 11 19:41:10 2010 From: d.klinker at ntlworld.com (dennis klinker) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 19:41:10 -0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: <25E455A0DD9244B6AA062BCF57579CFF@usera5b40ebdb9> Hello Geoff Good Luck with your exhibition,i remember last year being in awe of your wonderful Gum prints they have a Magnificent dream like quality. Dennis Klinker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Chaplin" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:48 PM Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > List members and friends, > > > > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole > photography exhibition in London. Details below: > > > > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY > > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool > Street, > Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm > Sat, > Sun. > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > (approx. > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole Sunrise > and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > ?????????? > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From ddrakephoto at casadrake.ca Thu Nov 11 21:50:19 2010 From: ddrakephoto at casadrake.ca (david drake photo) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 16:50:19 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: Geoff, Your work is wonderful, especially like the building fronts in venice. I had been experimenting with lith film for quite while (and l'm now experimenting with xray dupe and digital negatives). It had never occurred to me to make the inter-positive with RC paper. I can see how much easier it would be to keep the inter-positive very low contrast (in order to keep down the contrast in the negative). However, how long are your exposures through the RC? I was using HC-110 at low dilutions and constant very subtle agitation. I found it very hard to get the right time of development and I was still getting too much contrast. Though, I was printing enlarged negs directly from b&w positive slides. Lately, I've come across medical dupe film and it's great. It's like the opposite of lith film: dektol straight for 3 minutes. lot's of agitation. Though it requires a massive amount of exposure. david On 10-Nov-10, at 6:05 PM, Geoff Chaplin wrote: > Joe, > > 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film > (yes, > development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls and > its much > cheaper than normal film. > > I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked > with > computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. > > Geoff Chaplin > ?????????? > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > www.geoffgallery.net > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On > Behalf Of > joe > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > > Geoff, > I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it > computer > generated? > thanks, > joe azoti > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Chaplin" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > >> List members and friends, >> >> >> >> I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and >> pinhole >> photography exhibition in London. Details below: >> >> >> >> CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY >> >> 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool >> Street, >> Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, >> 11am-5pm >> Sat, >> Sun. >> >> Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format >> gum prints >> (approx. >> 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole >> Sunrise >> and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. >> >> >> >> http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html >> >> >> >> I look forward to meeting you if you can come. >> >> >> >> Geoff Chaplin >> >> ?????????? >> >> >> >> geoff at geoffgallery.net >> >> www.geoffgallery.net >> >> >> >> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >> >> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >> >> Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >> >> Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 >> 5855 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jazoti at optonline.net Fri Nov 12 02:08:30 2010 From: jazoti at optonline.net (joe) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:08:30 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: David, Could you talk a little on medical dupe film? I have been trying to get a good,working neg, off of APHS positive,made from a 4x5. I'm just starting,but cant seem to to the point where the neg wii not be blown out on the highlights. I'm sure I will accomplish it, given a long life. Will medical dupe film eliminate this? Are 8x10 sheets(or something close in size) expensive and where do you get them? Thank you joe azoti ----- Original Message ----- From: "david drake photo" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > Geoff, > Your work is wonderful, especially like the building fronts in venice. > I had been experimenting with lith film for quite while (and l'm now > experimenting with xray dupe and digital negatives). > It had never occurred to me to make the inter-positive with RC paper. I > can see how much easier it would be to keep the inter-positive very low > contrast (in order to keep down the contrast in the negative). However, > how long are your exposures through the RC? > > I was using HC-110 at low dilutions and constant very subtle agitation. I > found it very hard to get the right time of development and I was still > getting too much contrast. > Though, I was printing enlarged negs directly from b&w positive slides. > Lately, I've come across medical dupe film and it's great. It's like the > opposite of lith film: dektol straight for 3 minutes. lot's of agitation. > Though it requires a massive amount of exposure. > > david > > > > On 10-Nov-10, at 6:05 PM, Geoff Chaplin wrote: > >> Joe, >> >> 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film >> (yes, >> development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls and its >> much >> cheaper than normal film. >> >> I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked with >> computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. >> >> Geoff Chaplin >> ?????????? >> >> geoff at geoffgallery.net >> www.geoffgallery.net >> >> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >> Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >> Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org >> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf >> Of >> joe >> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole >> >> >> Geoff, >> I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it >> computer >> generated? >> thanks, >> joe azoti >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Geoff Chaplin" >> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM >> Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole >> >> >>> List members and friends, >>> >>> >>> >>> I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole >>> photography exhibition in London. Details below: >>> >>> >>> >>> CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY >>> >>> 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool >>> Street, >>> Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm >>> Sat, >>> Sun. >>> >>> Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints >>> (approx. >>> 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole >>> Sunrise >>> and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html >>> >>> >>> >>> I look forward to meeting you if you can come. >>> >>> >>> >>> Geoff Chaplin >>> >>> ?????????? >>> >>> >>> >>> geoff at geoffgallery.net >>> >>> www.geoffgallery.net >>> >>> >>> >>> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >>> >>> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >>> >>> Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >>> >>> Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 12 02:29:03 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 18:29:03 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: something went wrong References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> Message-ID: <3D135EA751684F10961A411F8EFB0633@VALUED20606295> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Camerling" To: "alt-photo-process- list" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: [alt-photo] something went wrong > Yesterday I sent an E-mail with attachment to the list but > this attachment didn't work correct .I don't know why but > in text I can tell you that the UV measurement from the > Xrite 361 T works with a wavelength from 420 till 330 nm. > Peak (100%) 380 nm,50% : 360 and 395 nm, 0% : 330 and > 420 nm.So the 361 T doesn't work very well for EPSON > Ultrachrome (K3) inks because their maximums are around > 350 nm. > See www.albertonovo.it/scan/epson_inks.html. > > Erich Camerling Many mailing lists, probably including this one, are set up to strip off attachments. I think that's what happened. Perhaps there is a web site you could post the attachment to. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From alt.list at albertonovo.it Fri Nov 12 07:04:47 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:04:47 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: something went wrong In-Reply-To: <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20101112070448.1626.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Mark, > interesting information Can you elaborate on the info that "Epson K3 inks maximums are around 350 nm"? Any source info you can site for this? >> See www.albertonovo.it/scan/epson_inks.html. I can reply because the link above is mine. I posted (more than one year ago) those figures coming from measurements made in a chemical laboratory with a UV-visible spectrophotometer. See also www.usask.ca/lists/alt-photo-process-l/200904/msg00376.html and related posts. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Fri Nov 12 08:16:30 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:16:30 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: something went wrong In-Reply-To: <20101112070448.1626.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> <20101112070448.1626.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Message-ID: <4CDCF7DE.6080102@chalkjockeys.com> Hey gang, Going to Berlin for a few days. Anyone know of any good places to find alt work and supplies? Trevor From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Fri Nov 12 08:20:25 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 11:20:25 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Berlin In-Reply-To: <4CDCF7DE.6080102@chalkjockeys.com> References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> <20101112070448.1626.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <4CDCF7DE.6080102@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <4CDCF8C9.4020003@chalkjockeys.com> Hey gang, Going to Berlin for a few days. Anyone know of any good places to find alt work and supplies? Trevor From geoff at geoffgallery.net Thu Nov 11 23:26:24 2010 From: geoff at geoffgallery.net (Geoff Chaplin) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:26:24 +0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC> <002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: <002101cb81f7$dbabb680$93032380$@geoffgallery.net> David, Thanks for the comments. Contact printing time through RC paper is not that much longer than through film - a stop more light or double the time seems about right. Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of david drake photo Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 6:50 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole Geoff, Your work is wonderful, especially like the building fronts in venice. I had been experimenting with lith film for quite while (and l'm now experimenting with xray dupe and digital negatives). It had never occurred to me to make the inter-positive with RC paper. I can see how much easier it would be to keep the inter-positive very low contrast (in order to keep down the contrast in the negative). However, how long are your exposures through the RC? I was using HC-110 at low dilutions and constant very subtle agitation. I found it very hard to get the right time of development and I was still getting too much contrast. Though, I was printing enlarged negs directly from b&w positive slides. Lately, I've come across medical dupe film and it's great. It's like the opposite of lith film: dektol straight for 3 minutes. lot's of agitation. Though it requires a massive amount of exposure. david On 10-Nov-10, at 6:05 PM, Geoff Chaplin wrote: > Joe, > > 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film > (yes, development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls > and its much cheaper than normal film. > > I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked > with computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. > > Geoff Chaplin > ?????????? > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > www.geoffgallery.net > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (?????? ?): +81(0) > 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On > Behalf Of joe > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > > Geoff, > I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it > computer generated? > thanks, > joe azoti > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Chaplin" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > > >> List members and friends, >> >> >> >> I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole >> photography exhibition in London. Details below: >> >> >> >> CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY >> >> 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool >> Street, Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, >> 11am-5pm Sat, Sun. >> >> Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints >> (approx. >> 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole >> Sunrise and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. >> >> >> >> http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html >> >> >> >> I look forward to meeting you if you can come. >> >> >> >> Geoff Chaplin >> >> ?????????? >> >> >> >> geoff at geoffgallery.net >> >> www.geoffgallery.net >> >> >> >> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >> >> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >> >> Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >> >> Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 >> 5855 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From geoff at geoffgallery.net Thu Nov 11 23:26:58 2010 From: geoff at geoffgallery.net (Geoff Chaplin) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 08:26:58 +0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: <25E455A0DD9244B6AA062BCF57579CFF@usera5b40ebdb9> References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net> <25E455A0DD9244B6AA062BCF57579CFF@usera5b40ebdb9> Message-ID: <002201cb81f7$efcfa860$cf6ef920$@geoffgallery.net> Dennis, Thanks - hope to see you again this year. Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of dennis klinker Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:41 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole Hello Geoff Good Luck with your exhibition,i remember last year being in awe of your wonderful Gum prints they have a Magnificent dream like quality. Dennis Klinker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Chaplin" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:48 PM Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > List members and friends, > > > > I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole > photography exhibition in London. Details below: > > > > CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY > > 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool > Street, Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, > 11am-5pm Sat, Sun. > > Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints > (approx. > 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole > Sunrise and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. > > > > http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html > > > > I look forward to meeting you if you can come. > > > > Geoff Chaplin > > ?????????? > > > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > > www.geoffgallery.net > > > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From alt.list at albertonovo.it Fri Nov 12 09:02:32 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 10:02:32 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Berlin In-Reply-To: <4CDCF8C9.4020003@chalkjockeys.com> References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> <20101112070448.1626.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <4CDCF7DE.6080102@chalkjockeys.com> <4CDCF8C9.4020003@chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <20101112090234.29446.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> > Going to Berlin for a few days. Anyone know of any good places to find alt > work and supplies? Trevor, today (November 12) it is the last day of "Stadt-Flimmern", an exhibition with my gum bichromates, resinotypes and tonings at Galerie Ratskeller (Rathaus Lichtenberg, Mollendorfstrasse 6). Open from 10:00 to 18:00. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Fri Nov 12 10:31:51 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (Trevor Cunningham) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 13:31:51 +0300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Berlin In-Reply-To: <20101112090234.29446.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> References: <4CDC1043.3000809@tiscali.nl> <8CD4FD2BF096DCB-838-C75E@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com> <20101112070448.1626.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <4CDCF7DE.6080102@chalkjockeys.com> <4CDCF8C9.4020003@chalkjockeys.com> <20101112090234.29446.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> Message-ID: <4CDD1797.2060403@chalkjockeys.com> Drat! I don't arrive until the 16th. I would have loved to see your work. On 11/12/10 12:02 PM, Alberto Novo wrote: >> Going to Berlin for a few days. Anyone know of any good places to >> find alt work and supplies? > > Trevor, > today (November 12) it is the last day of "Stadt-Flimmern", an > exhibition with my gum bichromates, resinotypes and tonings at Galerie > Ratskeller (Rathaus Lichtenberg, Mollendorfstrasse 6). Open from 10:00 > to 18:00. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sat Nov 13 14:03:35 2010 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole In-Reply-To: References: <002001cb8057$de1d3fc0$9a57bf40$@geoffgallery.net><76E24FEE907740899E7AB0608CD0D2F0@JoePC><002201cb812b$cbcf5310$636df930$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: DEAR JOE, Click this link to see the PDF Kodak info sheet on Kodak RA X-ray duplicating film. www.carestreamhealth.com/raDuplicatiing_brochure_M6-238.pdf It is a direct positive film that can be tray developed in Dektol/D-72, D-19, D-11 etc, depending on the contrast you want. I think the largest size I bought was 14X17 inches but the available sizes are on the data sheet mentioned above. I have used it and found that I got a much better neg by flashing the entire film first then doing a test strip under the enlarger for whatever neg I wanted to enlarge. I made some nice PT/PD prints from these negs. The exposures are pretty long. I must admit that I have done digital and now make enlarged diginegs with my Epson 3800. I find that I really like the work I can do on the image in Frotoshop...just easier than dodging and burning under the enlarger. The minimum order directly from the supplier is very large so I bought mine from the local radiology (X-ray, CT scan, etc) lab. They are often happy to sell you a box as they often order by the case. Further, as they often use the copies for insurance and/or legal purposes, they must use fresh film and are happy to sell off boxes that are nearing their expiration...still great for our uses. *****Don't forget...Test! Test! Test! CHEERS! BOB -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of joe Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 10:09 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole David, Could you talk a little on medical dupe film? I have been trying to get a good,working neg, off of APHS positive,made from a 4x5. I'm just starting,but cant seem to to the point where the neg wii not be blown out on the highlights. I'm sure I will accomplish it, given a long life. Will medical dupe film eliminate this? Are 8x10 sheets(or something close in size) expensive and where do you get them? Thank you joe azoti ----- Original Message ----- From: "david drake photo" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 4:50 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole > Geoff, > Your work is wonderful, especially like the building fronts in venice. > I had been experimenting with lith film for quite while (and l'm now > experimenting with xray dupe and digital negatives). > It had never occurred to me to make the inter-positive with RC paper. I > can see how much easier it would be to keep the inter-positive very low > contrast (in order to keep down the contrast in the negative). However, > how long are your exposures through the RC? > > I was using HC-110 at low dilutions and constant very subtle agitation. I > found it very hard to get the right time of development and I was still > getting too much contrast. > Though, I was printing enlarged negs directly from b&w positive slides. > Lately, I've come across medical dupe film and it's great. It's like the > opposite of lith film: dektol straight for 3 minutes. lot's of agitation. > Though it requires a massive amount of exposure. > > david > > > > On 10-Nov-10, at 6:05 PM, Geoff Chaplin wrote: > >> Joe, >> >> 4x5 neg printed on to RC paper, contact printed onto Agfa lith film >> (yes, >> development is tricky). You can buy the lith film in 24" rolls and its >> much >> cheaper than normal film. >> >> I don't use digital processes at all - simply because I have worked with >> computers for a lifetime and enough is enough. >> >> Geoff Chaplin >> ?????????? >> >> geoff at geoffgallery.net >> www.geoffgallery.net >> >> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >> Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >> Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org >> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf >> Of >> joe >> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:52 AM >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole >> >> >> Geoff, >> I'm curious. How did you get a neg up to the size of 16x20? Was it >> computer >> generated? >> thanks, >> joe azoti >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Geoff Chaplin" >> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 4:48 PM >> Subject: [alt-photo] London UK Exhibition: Gum and pinhole >> >> >>> List members and friends, >>> >>> >>> >>> I?d like to draw your attention to an upcoming Gum print and pinhole >>> photography exhibition in London. Details below: >>> >>> >>> >>> CLIFFORD-THAMES GALLERY >>> >>> 020 7247 8399 Unit 1, 107 Clifton Street EC2A 4LG. Tubes: Liverpool >>> Street, >>> Moorgate, Old Street. 25th Nov - 9th Dec, 11am - 8pm Mon-Fri, 11am-5pm >>> Sat, >>> Sun. >>> >>> Geoff Chaplin, and Yasu Suzuka: ?Opus 7?. Large format gum prints >>> (approx. >>> 16x20 on whole sheets of watercolour paper) by Geoff, and Pinhole >>> Sunrise >>> and Praying Hands series (B&W) by Yasu. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.geoffgallery.net/CliffordThamesGallery.html >>> >>> >>> >>> I look forward to meeting you if you can come. >>> >>> >>> >>> Geoff Chaplin >>> >>> ?????????? >>> >>> >>> >>> geoff at geoffgallery.net >>> >>> www.geoffgallery.net >>> >>> >>> >>> Skype: geoffchaplin1611 >>> >>> UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 >>> >>> Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 >>> >>> Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5613 (20101112) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From peteralan.photography at btinternet.com Sat Nov 13 14:26:49 2010 From: peteralan.photography at btinternet.com (peteralan photography) Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2010 14:26:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [alt-photo] A second, and modest, London exhibition - 22nd November Message-ID: <512091.25296.qm@web86305.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hallo, Please excuse the personal promotion, but I have a modest exhibition of portraits - carbon, platinum, gravure and cyanotype prints (and the odd digital) - coming up shortly in Kennington and would like to invite London-based list members to the Private View at around 7ish on 22nd November at 16 Bowden Street, Kennington, London, SE11 4DS. I attach a pdf with details. regards Peter From photo1 at telusplanet.net Tue Nov 16 02:13:57 2010 From: photo1 at telusplanet.net (Ken Sinclair) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:13:57 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] assitance needed Pyrocat-HD Message-ID: It has been too many years for this aging brain to remember much about college chemistry but here goes... I just ran out of enough Sodium metabisulphite for making up a batch of Pyrocat-HD. I have more than an adequate supply of Sodium bisulphite... therefor, my question is.... How much Sodium bisulphite will be required to provide the equivalence of 2 g of Sodium metabisulphite for making up 200 ml of Pyrocat-HD solution A Any and all chemical assistance on getting this made up this evening will be more than appreciated Ken Quando omni flunkus moritati (R. Green) From don at sweetlegal.co.nz Tue Nov 16 02:42:22 2010 From: don at sweetlegal.co.nz (Don Sweet) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:42:22 +1300 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: assitance needed Pyrocat-HD References: Message-ID: <012901cb8537$f94eaf10$0301a8c0@east> Hi Ken I don't know, but these chaps do http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/0037VE Don Sweet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Sinclair" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:13 PM Subject: [alt-photo] assitance needed Pyrocat-HD > It has been too many years for this aging brain to remember much > about college chemistry > but here goes... > > I just ran out of enough Sodium metabisulphite for making up a batch > of Pyrocat-HD. > > I have more than an adequate supply of Sodium bisulphite... > therefor, my question is.... > > How much Sodium bisulphite will be required to provide the > equivalence of 2 g of > Sodium metabisulphite for making up 200 ml of Pyrocat-HD solution A > > Any and all chemical assistance on getting this made up this evening > will be more than appreciated > > > Ken > > Quando omni flunkus moritati (R. Green) > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From photo1 at telusplanet.net Tue Nov 16 03:13:35 2010 From: photo1 at telusplanet.net (Ken Sinclair) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:13:35 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: assitance needed Pyrocat-HD In-Reply-To: <012901cb8537$f94eaf10$0301a8c0@east> References: <012901cb8537$f94eaf10$0301a8c0@east> Message-ID: <94BEE706-C358-4511-B3F0-B163B5089254@telusplanet.net> Don... Many thanks. I had forgotten about photo.net... Ken On 15-Nov-10, at 7:42 PM, Don Sweet wrote: > Hi Ken > > I don't know, but these chaps do > > http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/0037VE > > Don Sweet > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Sinclair" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:13 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] assitance needed Pyrocat-HD > > >> It has been too many years for this aging brain to remember much >> about college chemistry >> but here goes... >> >> I just ran out of enough Sodium metabisulphite for making up a batch >> of Pyrocat-HD. >> >> I have more than an adequate supply of Sodium bisulphite... >> therefor, my question is.... >> >> How much Sodium bisulphite will be required to provide the >> equivalence of 2 g of >> Sodium metabisulphite for making up 200 ml of Pyrocat-HD solution A >> >> Any and all chemical assistance on getting this made up this evening >> will be more than appreciated >> >> >> Ken >> >> Quando omni flunkus moritati (R. Green) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo Quando omni flunkus moritati (R. Green) From productions at johnesimmons.com Tue Nov 16 10:54:27 2010 From: productions at johnesimmons.com (Productions) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 05:54:27 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: assitance needed Pyrocat-HD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CE262E3.4020905@johnesimmons.com> For photographic purposes, they are close enough to use them gram for gram. In fact, I understand that most sodium bisulphite sold in the US is actually metabisulphite. John On 11/15/2010 9:13 PM, Ken Sinclair wrote: > It has been too many years for this aging brain to remember much about > college chemistry > but here goes... > > I just ran out of enough Sodium metabisulphite for making up a batch > of Pyrocat-HD. > > I have more than an adequate supply of Sodium bisulphite... therefor, > my question is.... > > How much Sodium bisulphite will be required to provide the equivalence > of 2 g of > Sodium metabisulphite for making up 200 ml of Pyrocat-HD solution A > > Any and all chemical assistance on getting this made up this evening > will be more than appreciated > > > Ken > > Quando omni flunkus moritati (R. Green) > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From jefulton1 at comcast.net Tue Nov 16 16:23:02 2010 From: jefulton1 at comcast.net (Jack Fulton) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:23:02 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Silver Nitrate Message-ID: <8B1935B6-E45E-415F-AA7D-861A5808B9FB@comcast.net> Good morning . . though I've not written to th elist for quite some while I'm still on it. Can you folks tell me the best price for 1 lb (500 grams) of silver nitrate? I have found some for $390 . . if you know of a lesser price please let me/us know. Cheers Jack Fulton From kerik at kerik.com Tue Nov 16 16:41:24 2010 From: kerik at kerik.com (Kerik) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:41:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Silver Nitrate In-Reply-To: <8B1935B6-E45E-415F-AA7D-861A5808B9FB@comcast.net> References: <8B1935B6-E45E-415F-AA7D-861A5808B9FB@comcast.net> Message-ID: <39403.192.146.217.50.1289925684.squirrel@www.kerik.com> Jack, I don't know their current price, but have you checked with Artcraftchemicals.com? Kerik www.kerik.com > Good morning . . though I've not written to th elist for quite some > while I'm still on it. > Can you folks tell me the best price for 1 lb (500 grams) of silver > nitrate? I have found > some for $390 . . if you know of a lesser price please let me/us know. > Cheers > Jack Fulton From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 17:09:02 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 09:09:02 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Silver Nitrate References: <8B1935B6-E45E-415F-AA7D-861A5808B9FB@comcast.net> <39403.192.146.217.50.1289925684.squirrel@www.kerik.com> Message-ID: <05506688A1614129B6A6A0D268FF24DC@dell4600> Kerik's right... $315 / pound ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerik" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:41 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Silver Nitrate > Jack, > > I don't know their current price, but have you checked with > Artcraftchemicals.com? > > Kerik > www.kerik.com > >> Good morning . . though I've not written to th elist for quite some >> while I'm still on it. >> Can you folks tell me the best price for 1 lb (500 grams) of silver >> nitrate? I have found >> some for $390 . . if you know of a lesser price please let me/us know. >> Cheers >> Jack Fulton > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From davidh6180483 at googlemail.com Tue Nov 16 20:52:40 2010 From: davidh6180483 at googlemail.com (David Hatton) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 20:52:40 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Hake brush Message-ID: Hi All, I seem to remember some time in the past there was mention of a really spiffy hand made hake brush. I can't for the life of me find any reference to it. Does anyone remember anything about it??? Regards DavidH From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 21:11:21 2010 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 13:11:21 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Hake brush References: Message-ID: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> Hi... Here's a link to the LF Forum discussing the custom hake brushes sold by Tsuyoshi at Project Basho. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59967&highlight=hake Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Hatton" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Hake brush > Hi All, > I seem to remember some time in the past there was mention of a really > spiffy hand made hake brush. I can't for the life of me find any > reference to it. Does anyone remember anything about it??? > > Regards > > DavidH > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From davidh6180483 at googlemail.com Wed Nov 17 08:14:40 2010 From: davidh6180483 at googlemail.com (David Hatton) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:14:40 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Hake brush In-Reply-To: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> References: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> Message-ID: That's the one! Thank you Paul, Best Wishes Davidh On 11/16/10, Paul Viapiano wrote: > Hi... > > Here's a link to the LF Forum discussing the custom hake brushes sold by > Tsuyoshi at Project Basho. > > http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59967&highlight=hake > > > Paul > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Hatton" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:52 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Hake brush > > >> Hi All, >> I seem to remember some time in the past there was mention of a really >> spiffy hand made hake brush. I can't for the life of me find any >> reference to it. Does anyone remember anything about it??? >> >> Regards >> >> DavidH >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From jefulton1 at comcast.net Wed Nov 17 16:27:33 2010 From: jefulton1 at comcast.net (Jack Fulton) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:27:33 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Gracias Message-ID: Yes, indeed, Kerik . .. a better price. Will purchase. Once again this list, is well, like a darned Wikipedia of information and generosity. Thank you. Jack From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Thu Nov 18 05:44:41 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (trevor at chalkjockeys.com) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 23:44:41 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Hake brush In-Reply-To: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> References: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> Message-ID: <3b737e2c93647e32d532b1aa8b41403c.squirrel@www.chalkjockeys.com> Tried creating an account. Still cannot access this thread in the forum. Could someone possibly post the subsequent thread to the product? Muchos gracias. > Hi... > > Here's a link to the LF Forum discussing the custom hake brushes sold by > Tsuyoshi at Project Basho. > > http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59967&highlight=hake > > > Paul > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Hatton" > To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:52 PM > Subject: [alt-photo] Hake brush > > >> Hi All, >> I seem to remember some time in the past there was mention of a really >> spiffy hand made hake brush. I can't for the life of me find any >> reference to it. Does anyone remember anything about it??? >> >> Regards >> >> DavidH >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From saman at worldshape.com Thu Nov 18 06:38:13 2010 From: saman at worldshape.com (Saman Michael Far) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:38:13 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Hake brush In-Reply-To: <3b737e2c93647e32d532b1aa8b41403c.squirrel@www.chalkjockeys.com> References: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> <3b737e2c93647e32d532b1aa8b41403c.squirrel@www.chalkjockeys.com> Message-ID: <5E778CBA-5027-4C3E-B308-0E7F2AF6C7B0@worldshape.com> You can just contact here http://www.projectbasho.org/ and inquire. Tsuyoshi or someone else there can help you. On Nov 17, 2010, at 21:44, trevor at chalkjockeys.com wrote: > Tried creating an account. Still cannot access this thread in the forum. > Could someone possibly post the subsequent thread to the product? Muchos > gracias. > >> Hi... >> >> Here's a link to the LF Forum discussing the custom hake brushes sold by >> Tsuyoshi at Project Basho. >> >> http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59967&highlight=hake >> >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Hatton" >> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:52 PM >> Subject: [alt-photo] Hake brush >> >> >>> Hi All, >>> I seem to remember some time in the past there was mention of a really >>> spiffy hand made hake brush. I can't for the life of me find any >>> reference to it. Does anyone remember anything about it??? >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> DavidH >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From trevor at chalkjockeys.com Fri Nov 19 08:18:21 2010 From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com (trevor at chalkjockeys.com) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 02:18:21 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Hake brush In-Reply-To: <5E778CBA-5027-4C3E-B308-0E7F2AF6C7B0@worldshape.com> References: <7468427B37E4472996FE9EB27D796BFC@dell4600> <3b737e2c93647e32d532b1aa8b41403c.squirrel@www.chalkjockeys.com> <5E778CBA-5027-4C3E-B308-0E7F2AF6C7B0@worldshape.com> Message-ID: Thanks! > You can just contact here > > http://www.projectbasho.org/ > > and inquire. Tsuyoshi or someone else there can help you. > > On Nov 17, 2010, at 21:44, trevor at chalkjockeys.com wrote: > >> Tried creating an account. Still cannot access this thread in the forum. >> Could someone possibly post the subsequent thread to the product? Muchos >> gracias. >> >>> Hi... >>> >>> Here's a link to the LF Forum discussing the custom hake brushes sold >>> by >>> Tsuyoshi at Project Basho. >>> >>> http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59967&highlight=hake >>> >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "David Hatton" >>> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:52 PM >>> Subject: [alt-photo] Hake brush >>> >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> I seem to remember some time in the past there was mention of a really >>>> spiffy hand made hake brush. I can't for the life of me find any >>>> reference to it. Does anyone remember anything about it??? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> DavidH >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From alt.list at albertonovo.it Fri Nov 19 11:26:04 2010 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:26:04 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Bob Barnes Message-ID: <20101119112605.27317.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> I have been informed by a friend of him that he died some days ago. He was fond of Italy and member of Rodolfo Namias Group since 2001. I shared with him not only photographic passion, but also common experiences about fishing and climbing. His pages in our website will be not deleted. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From alternativephotography at gmail.com Fri Nov 19 12:25:03 2010 From: alternativephotography at gmail.com (Alternative Photography) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 13:25:03 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Bob Barnes In-Reply-To: <20101119112605.27317.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> References: <20101119112605.27317.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> Message-ID: Sorry, the pages have moved... Here is the right link to the group: http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group and to the gallery: http://www.alternativephotography.com/artists/rodolfo_namias_group.html Kind regards, Malin -- *??) ?.???.?*??) ?.?*?) (?.?? (?.?*Malin Fabbri Editor, AlternativePhotography.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get our free newsletter: http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/become-a-member/newsletter Like our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/AlternativePhotographycom/91823023682 Become a Supporting Member: http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/become-a-member ------------------------------------------------------------------ On 19 November 2010 12:26, Alberto Novo wrote: > I have been informed by a friend of him that he died some days ago. > He was fond of Italy and member of Rodolfo Namias Group since 2001. I > shared with him not only photographic passion, but also common experiences > about fishing and climbing. > His pages in our website will be not deleted. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From mail at loris.medici.name Fri Nov 19 20:03:20 2010 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 22:03:20 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Bob Barnes In-Reply-To: <20101119112605.27317.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> References: <20101119112605.27317.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> Message-ID: Sad news... :(( May he rest in piece. 2010/11/19 Alberto Novo : > I have been informed by a friend of him that he died some days ago. > He was fond of Italy and member of Rodolfo Namias Group since 2001. I shared > with him not only photographic passion, but also common experiences about > fishing and climbing. > His pages in our website will be not deleted. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html From ender100 at aol.com Fri Nov 19 20:32:46 2010 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Bob Barnes In-Reply-To: References: <20101119112605.27317.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> Message-ID: <8CD56400F597EC2-A9C-167A@webmail-d018.sysops.aol.com> Sorry to hear Bob has passed away. He lived near me in Chicago and I got together with him 2-3 times. THanks for passing this on. Best Wishes, Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com PDNPrintForum @ Yahoo Groups/ -----Original Message----- From: Loris Medici To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Sent: Fri, Nov 19, 2010 2:03 pm Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Bob Barnes Sad news... :(( May he rest in piece. 2010/11/19 Alberto Novo : > I have been informed by a friend of him that he died some days ago. > He was fond of Italy and member of Rodolfo Namias Group since 2001. I shared > with him not only photographic passion, but also common experiences about > fishing and climbing. > His pages in our website will be not deleted. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From blhotka at digitalartstudioseminars.com Sun Nov 21 05:01:10 2010 From: blhotka at digitalartstudioseminars.com (Bonny Lhotka) Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 22:01:10 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] New book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <410E8325-D323-4A43-B6BE-29755065F3D8@digitalartstudioseminars.com> I have posted a new website for my book that will be available December 27th. It covers alternative digital photo printing. http://www.digitalalchemybook.com Bonny Lhotka From zphoto at montana.net Tue Nov 23 03:16:37 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 20:16:37 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] odd tintype observation Message-ID: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> Dear All, The list sure is dead lately! So I thought I'd share a silly thing. I was cleaning off the tintype trophy metal plates from the group class so I could reuse them, under hot water (which will easily melt the liquid emulsion right off the aluminum) and one of them was really tenacious and would NOT slough off, melt off, scrape off. I was wondering what the heck the student did to have the emulsion stick so well to the plate and then I found out why: he/she had not removed the plastic covering off the trophy aluminum that you have to peel off before coating. It was interesting to me how well it stuck to the plastic.... Always fun to learn from mistakes. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From frangst at gmail.com Tue Nov 23 04:08:33 2010 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:08:33 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> Message-ID: Chris, It didn't scrape off? Did you try a particle beam? We are doing these next semester. What are trophy metal plates (where did you get them)? -francis On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Dear All, > The list sure is dead lately! > > So I thought I'd share a silly thing. > > I was cleaning off the tintype trophy metal plates from the group class so > I could reuse them, under hot water (which will easily melt the liquid > emulsion right off the aluminum) and one of them was really tenacious and > would NOT slough off, melt off, scrape off. I was wondering what the heck > the student did to have the emulsion stick so well to the plate and then I > found out why: he/she had not removed the plastic covering off the trophy > aluminum that you have to peel off before coating. > > It was interesting to me how well it stuck to the plastic.... > > Always fun to learn from mistakes. > Chris > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- francis schanberger www.francisschanberger.com From zphoto at montana.net Tue Nov 23 04:38:42 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:38:42 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> Message-ID: <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> Hmmm...what is a "particle beam?" I got the trophy metal plates (black painted aluminum) from a trophy store, but they are also available at Main Trophy online. Quite cheap. The emulsion I used was Black Magic--very good, fast, contrasty, but definitely needing red safelight. Developer was the Rockland Colloid bulk tintype developer but I am working on a formula for a homemade one. Have fun! Chris PS DO peel off the plastic layer--but next time I teach it I am definitely going to spray varnish with Krylon Crystal Clear acrylic spray varnish to give the plates tooth. Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 22, 2010, at 9:08 PM, francis schanberger wrote: > Chris, > > It didn't scrape off? Did you try a particle beam? > > We are doing these next semester. What are trophy metal plates (where did > you get them)? > > -francis > > > > On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 10:16 PM, Christina Anderson wrote: > >> Dear All, >> The list sure is dead lately! >> >> So I thought I'd share a silly thing. >> >> I was cleaning off the tintype trophy metal plates from the group class so >> I could reuse them, under hot water (which will easily melt the liquid >> emulsion right off the aluminum) and one of them was really tenacious and >> would NOT slough off, melt off, scrape off. I was wondering what the heck >> the student did to have the emulsion stick so well to the plate and then I >> found out why: he/she had not removed the plastic covering off the trophy >> aluminum that you have to peel off before coating. >> >> It was interesting to me how well it stuck to the plastic.... >> >> Always fun to learn from mistakes. >> Chris >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > > > > -- > francis schanberger > > www.francisschanberger.com > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From photographeur at nerdshack.com Tue Nov 23 05:13:28 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:13:28 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> Message-ID: <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> Christina wrote: >I got the trophy metal plates (black painted aluminum) from a trophy store I can't comment about the particular plates you got, but aluminum engraving plates are generally anodized (anodizing is an electrolytic oxidizing process). The oxide layer is dyed black (or yellow, blue, red, etc.). It is a bonded (not applied) finish. It is almost always given a hydrophobic sealing as the last process step, to improve environmental resistance. Before it is sealed, anodizing is quite porous and holds many kinds of coatings well. Best regards, etienne From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Tue Nov 23 10:38:16 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:38:16 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: Just use a scourer Chris. Every gummist has a scourer in their arsenal don't they? J. On 23 November 2010 05:13, etienne garbaux wrote: > Christina wrote: > > I got the trophy metal plates (black painted aluminum) from a trophy store >> > > I can't comment about the particular plates you got, but aluminum engraving > plates are generally anodized (anodizing is an electrolytic oxidizing > process). The oxide layer is dyed black (or yellow, blue, red, etc.). It > is a bonded (not applied) finish. It is almost always given a hydrophobic > sealing as the last process step, to improve environmental resistance. > Before it is sealed, anodizing is quite porous and holds many kinds of > coatings well. > > Best regards, > > etienne > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From zphoto at montana.net Tue Nov 23 13:23:27 2010 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 06:23:27 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: <39C0D4C1-71FD-41CC-87A3-B9A7BC2A2B43@montana.net> John, I've been scouring! WIth a heavy duty scour brush. But, come to think of it, I haven't used my trusty Scotch Brite scouring pad that I use for gum so you reminded me! Out with the arsenal. I was going to have to take out the steel wool but didn't want to mess up the metal plates. Etienne, it is definitely as you say, below, anodized, then, not painted. I wouldn't know my aluminum from my silver even if my father was a metallurgist... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:38 AM, John Brewer wrote: > Just use a scourer Chris. Every gummist has a scourer in their arsenal don't > they? > > J. > > On 23 November 2010 05:13, etienne garbaux wrote: > >> Christina wrote: >> >> I got the trophy metal plates (black painted aluminum) from a trophy store >>> >> >> I can't comment about the particular plates you got, but aluminum engraving >> plates are generally anodized (anodizing is an electrolytic oxidizing >> process). The oxide layer is dyed black (or yellow, blue, red, etc.). It >> is a bonded (not applied) finish. It is almost always given a hydrophobic >> sealing as the last process step, to improve environmental resistance. >> Before it is sealed, anodizing is quite porous and holds many kinds of >> coatings well. >> >> Best regards, >> >> etienne From kerik at kerik.com Tue Nov 23 17:27:43 2010 From: kerik at kerik.com (Kerik) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 09:27:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: <39C0D4C1-71FD-41CC-87A3-B9A7BC2A2B43@montana.net> References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> <39C0D4C1-71FD-41CC-87A3-B9A7BC2A2B43@montana.net> Message-ID: <17398.192.146.217.50.1290533263.squirrel@www.kerik.com> Christina, I've had a couple of workshop students do the same thing with collodion. They get too excited and forget to peel the plastic. The trophy plate aluminum that Main Trophy sells is not anodized. It is coated with a gloss enamel paint (according to the sales guy I deal with there). Anodizing usually leaves a satiny finish rather than glossy. That said, collodion sticks to the painted aluminum VERY well. Much moreso than to glass. Kerik www.kerik.com > John, I've been scouring! WIth a heavy duty scour brush. But, come to > think of it, I haven't used my trusty Scotch Brite scouring pad that I use > for gum so you reminded me! Out with the arsenal. > > I was going to have to take out the steel wool but didn't want to mess up > the metal plates. > > Etienne, it is definitely as you say, below, anodized, then, not painted. > I wouldn't know my aluminum from my silver even if my father was a > metallurgist... > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:38 AM, John Brewer wrote: > >> Just use a scourer Chris. Every gummist has a scourer in their arsenal >> don't >> they? >> >> J. >> >> On 23 November 2010 05:13, etienne garbaux >> wrote: >> >>> Christina wrote: >>> >>> I got the trophy metal plates (black painted aluminum) from a trophy >>> store >>>> >>> >>> I can't comment about the particular plates you got, but aluminum >>> engraving >>> plates are generally anodized (anodizing is an electrolytic oxidizing >>> process). The oxide layer is dyed black (or yellow, blue, red, etc.). >>> It >>> is a bonded (not applied) finish. It is almost always given a >>> hydrophobic >>> sealing as the last process step, to improve environmental resistance. >>> Before it is sealed, anodizing is quite porous and holds many kinds of >>> coatings well. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> etienne From john at johnbrewerphotography.com Tue Nov 23 17:44:45 2010 From: john at johnbrewerphotography.com (John Brewer) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 17:44:45 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: <17398.192.146.217.50.1290533263.squirrel@www.kerik.com> References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> <39C0D4C1-71FD-41CC-87A3-B9A7BC2A2B43@montana.net> <17398.192.146.217.50.1290533263.squirrel@www.kerik.com> Message-ID: >I've had a couple of workshop students do the same thing with collodion. >They get too excited and forget to peel the plastic. Hmmm, I think I was one of them Kerik. I was devastated when I took a fab portrait of your daughter Sarah only to find I had left the film on. The subsequent image was no where near as nice. Well we live and learn I suppose. J. On 23 November 2010 17:27, Kerik wrote: > Christina, > > I've had a couple of workshop students do the same thing with collodion. > They get too excited and forget to peel the plastic. > > The trophy plate aluminum that Main Trophy sells is not anodized. It is > coated with a gloss enamel paint (according to the sales guy I deal with > there). Anodizing usually leaves a satiny finish rather than glossy. That > said, collodion sticks to the painted aluminum VERY well. Much moreso than > to glass. > > Kerik > www.kerik.com > > > > John, I've been scouring! WIth a heavy duty scour brush. But, come to > > think of it, I haven't used my trusty Scotch Brite scouring pad that I > use > > for gum so you reminded me! Out with the arsenal. > > > > I was going to have to take out the steel wool but didn't want to mess up > > the metal plates. > > > > Etienne, it is definitely as you say, below, anodized, then, not painted. > > I wouldn't know my aluminum from my silver even if my father was a > > metallurgist... > > Chris > > > > Christina Z. Anderson > > christinaZanderson.com > > > > On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:38 AM, John Brewer wrote: > > > >> Just use a scourer Chris. Every gummist has a scourer in their arsenal > >> don't > >> they? > >> > >> J. > >> > >> On 23 November 2010 05:13, etienne garbaux > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Christina wrote: > >>> > >>> I got the trophy metal plates (black painted aluminum) from a trophy > >>> store > >>>> > >>> > >>> I can't comment about the particular plates you got, but aluminum > >>> engraving > >>> plates are generally anodized (anodizing is an electrolytic oxidizing > >>> process). The oxide layer is dyed black (or yellow, blue, red, etc.). > >>> It > >>> is a bonded (not applied) finish. It is almost always given a > >>> hydrophobic > >>> sealing as the last process step, to improve environmental resistance. > >>> Before it is sealed, anodizing is quite porous and holds many kinds of > >>> coatings well. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> etienne > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From photographeur at nerdshack.com Tue Nov 23 18:40:57 2010 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 13:40:57 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: odd tintype observation In-Reply-To: <17398.192.146.217.50.1290533263.squirrel@www.kerik.com> References: <9B69B652-7557-4254-B2D1-8A0853F01BC3@montana.net> <9CFBF43B-4EE7-4B25-B97C-C7C3D83B69B1@montana.net> <20101123051337.98D2411B88A@karen.lavabit.com> <39C0D4C1-71FD-41CC-87A3-B9A7BC2A2B43@montana.net> <17398.192.146.217.50.1290533263.squirrel@www.kerik.com> Message-ID: <20101123184105.E878811B836@karen.lavabit.com> Kerik wrote: >The trophy plate aluminum that Main Trophy sells is not anodized. It is >coated with a gloss enamel paint (according to the sales guy I deal with >there). Interesting. >Anodizing usually leaves a satiny finish rather than glossy. It all depends on the finish applied to the aluminum before anodizing. Lots of times a "brushed finish" is used, which is done with wire-wheel brushes and leaves a satiny, grained finish. Etching with alkali gives a flatter, matte satin look. You can polish aluminum to a very glossy mirror finish, but the anodizing dulls it a bit. Aluminum carabiners often have this finish. Best regards, etienne From rs at silvergrain.org Sun Nov 28 22:51:43 2010 From: rs at silvergrain.org (Ryuji Suzuki) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 17:51:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alt-photo] a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? Message-ID: <20101128.175143.20136847.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Hi, I'm trying to make a projector for a very large screen. I thought about modifying a slide projector or an overhead projector, as there are many in used market very inexpensively, but I realized that the same is true for enlargers, and I have several 150mm, 180mm and 210mm Componon and EL-Nikkor in my storage (anyone wants to buy some?). I think the advantage of an enlarger is easy access to replace the light source. I intend to use a xenon discharge flash. The projector is used to expose still photographic images and the source needs not be continuous light. Since I want the image to be rectangle, but there may not be perfect flexibility in placing the enlarger in relation to the fixed screen. I wonder if any enlarger has shift capability (I think most have tilt capability). If I can find a horizontal 8x10 or 5x7 enlarger inexpensively, I may use that, but otherwise, I plan to modify my Durst Laborator 138. Now, my flash tubes (boty Elinchrom and Dynalite heads I have) come with a 140 degree reflector. One question is whether this works well with the condenser system. Another possibility is to use a bare bulb tube, which is more like a point source, but considerably bigger in size than the halogen filament bulbs used in point source heads, and the glass is clear not opal unlike regular enlarger bulbs. (I want the projected image to be reasonably uniform.) Another question is printing the film to project. I intend to prepare the image "film" by printing 5x7 transparencies with inkjet printer, as that's the size of my enlarger unit. I don't intend to print anything larger, so prefer small printer that's low maintenance. What would be a good printer and film for this purpose? I think the discussion I saw on this list are more concerned about printers capable of A3 or larger, but I do not want a big device. The image will be enlarged 5x to 20x, and probably onto a rear projection screen. Incidentally, overhead projectors tend to use fresnel lens rather than convex lens in condenser, and I don't like to see those concentric lines, so that's another reason for enlarger or possibly slide projector. But making 35mm slides from JPEG is PITA, so perhaps LF enlarger is the best option for me. -- Ryuji Suzuki "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) From gjh at shaw.ca Mon Nov 29 00:34:03 2010 From: gjh at shaw.ca (Gordon J. Holtslander) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:34:03 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <20101128.175143.20136847.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> References: <20101128.175143.20136847.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Message-ID: <4CF2F4FB.7060706@shaw.ca> My fathers first enlarger was a modified medium format camera. If you are interested in making an enlarger device with shifts and tilts, why not start with a view camera and modify it? Maybe its only necessary to modify a film holder and add something to hold a flash bubl in place and contain the light it emits to the "enlarger" What size negatives are you working with? Gord On 11/28/2010 4:51 PM, Ryuji Suzuki wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to make a projector for a very large screen. I > thought about modifying a slide projector or an overhead > projector, as there are many in used market very > inexpensively, but I realized that the same is true for > enlargers, and I have several 150mm, 180mm and 210mm Componon > and EL-Nikkor in my storage (anyone wants to buy some?). I > think the advantage of an enlarger is easy access to replace > the light source. I intend to use a xenon discharge flash. The > projector is used to expose still photographic images and the > source needs not be continuous light. > > Since I want the image to be rectangle, but there may not be > perfect flexibility in placing the enlarger in relation to the > fixed screen. I wonder if any enlarger has shift capability (I > think most have tilt capability). > > If I can find a horizontal 8x10 or 5x7 enlarger inexpensively, > I may use that, but otherwise, I plan to modify my Durst > Laborator 138. > > Now, my flash tubes (boty Elinchrom and Dynalite heads I have) > come with a 140 degree reflector. One question is whether this > works well with the condenser system. Another possibility is > to use a bare bulb tube, which is more like a point source, > but considerably bigger in size than the halogen filament > bulbs used in point source heads, and the glass is clear not > opal unlike regular enlarger bulbs. (I want the projected > image to be reasonably uniform.) > > Another question is printing the film to project. I intend to > prepare the image "film" by printing 5x7 transparencies with > inkjet printer, as that's the size of my enlarger unit. I > don't intend to print anything larger, so prefer small printer > that's low maintenance. What would be a good printer and film > for this purpose? I think the discussion I saw on this list > are more concerned about printers capable of A3 or larger, but > I do not want a big device. The image will be enlarged 5x to > 20x, and probably onto a rear projection screen. > > Incidentally, overhead projectors tend to use fresnel lens > rather than convex lens in condenser, and I don't like to see > those concentric lines, so that's another reason for enlarger > or possibly slide projector. But making 35mm slides from JPEG > is PITA, so perhaps LF enlarger is the best option for me. > > -- > Ryuji Suzuki > "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- Gordon J. Holtslander gjh at shaw.ca From rs at silvergrain.org Mon Nov 29 01:46:02 2010 From: rs at silvergrain.org (Ryuji Suzuki) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 20:46:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <4CF2F4FB.7060706@shaw.ca> References: <20101128.175143.20136847.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF2F4FB.7060706@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> From: "Gordon J. Holtslander" Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:34:03 -0600 > If you are interested in making an enlarger device with shifts > and tilts, why not start with a view camera and modify it? > Maybe its only necessary to modify a film holder and add > something to hold a flash bubl in place and contain the light > it emits to the "enlarger" I thought about it, but without a diffusion or condenser system, I think the illuminance of the projected image will be uneven, because the light incident on the film plane would have different angles from the center to periphery. That's why we have a condenser in most enlargers for b&w use, and fresnel lens in practically all modern overhead projectors. Perhaps I could use a large parabolic reflector for this purpose. Maybe Richard Knoppow can add something to this. > What size negatives are you working with? The size is rather unimportant, as I plan to make them on transparent film using an inkjet printer as needed (much of the images will be digitally mastered files scanned from medium format negatives). Plus, I'd be using a positive film to project. I'm planning to use this "slide projector" on a rear projection screen to make a studio photography background. In other words, I am trying to make a studio space with a static background image on which I can manipulate foreground independently. It's typically done in old movies. In modern days, green screen chromakey and Photoshop work became more common, but I think if I could make a projector with xenon discharge flash work, with an Elinchrom or Profoto power control (1/10 stop increment) it would be very easy to work with. Ryuji -- Ryuji Suzuki "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) From rs at silvergrain.org Mon Nov 29 06:38:28 2010 From: rs at silvergrain.org (Ryuji Suzuki) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 01:38:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alt-photo] digital positive (negative) question Message-ID: <20101129.013828.135923746.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> I'm trying to make 5x7 or 4x5 digital positives. There are a couple of small photo printers, such as Epson Picturemate Charm and Canon Pixma mini320. Are they compatible with Pictorico or other transparent film? Does anyone make digital negative with these printers? Ryuji -- Ryuji Suzuki "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) From coldbay1 at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 08:30:51 2010 From: coldbay1 at gmail.com (Greg Schmitz) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:30:51 -0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> References: <20101128.175143.20136847.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF2F4FB.7060706@shaw.ca> <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Message-ID: <4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> Hi Ryuji, Long time no see. Durst and DeVere horizontal track enlargers (810) were available for cheap (or for free) a couple of years back. I was offered one if I was willing to cart it away - you might also be able to modify a process camera too. Just think'n. Good luck with your project. --greg On 11/28/10 4:46 PM, Ryuji Suzuki wrote: > From: "Gordon J. Holtslander" > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? > Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:34:03 -0600 > >> If you are interested in making an enlarger device with shifts >> and tilts, why not start with a view camera and modify it? >> Maybe its only necessary to modify a film holder and add >> something to hold a flash bubl in place and contain the light >> it emits to the "enlarger" > I thought about it, but without a diffusion or condenser > system, I think the illuminance of the projected image will be > uneven, because the light incident on the film plane would > have different angles from the center to periphery. That's why > we have a condenser in most enlargers for b&w use, and fresnel > lens in practically all modern overhead projectors. Perhaps I > could use a large parabolic reflector for this purpose. Maybe > Richard Knoppow can add something to this. > >> What size negatives are you working with? > The size is rather unimportant, as I plan to make them on > transparent film using an inkjet printer as needed (much of > the images will be digitally mastered files scanned from > medium format negatives). Plus, I'd be using a positive film > to project. I'm planning to use this "slide projector" on a > rear projection screen to make a studio photography > background. In other words, I am trying to make a studio space > with a static background image on which I can manipulate > foreground independently. It's typically done in old > movies. In modern days, green screen chromakey and Photoshop > work became more common, but I think if I could make a > projector with xenon discharge flash work, with an Elinchrom > or Profoto power control (1/10 stop increment) it would be > very easy to work with. > > Ryuji > > -- > Ryuji Suzuki > "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From coldbay1 at gmail.com Mon Nov 29 08:49:13 2010 From: coldbay1 at gmail.com (Greg Schmitz) Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:49:13 -0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> References: <20101128.175143.20136847.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF2F4FB.7060706@shaw.ca> <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF36909.9090502@gmail.com> There is also the Procabin 67 projector - which has a good reputation, if format is not an issue for you. Are you trying to make prints on a photosensitive material or display what you already have - not sure since you referred to a "projector?" --greg On 11/28/10 11:30 PM, Greg Schmitz wrote: > > Hi Ryuji, > > Long time no see. Durst and DeVere horizontal track enlargers (810) > were available for cheap (or for free) a couple of years back. I was > offered one if I was willing to cart it away - you might also be able > to modify a process camera too. > > Just think'n. > > Good luck with your project. --greg > From fdanb at aol.com Mon Nov 29 15:30:58 2010 From: fdanb at aol.com (Dan Burkholder) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:30:58 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: digital positive (negative) question In-Reply-To: <20101129.013828.135923746.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> References: <20101129.013828.135923746.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Message-ID: Hi Ryuji, Your project sounds very interesting. Other than perhaps trying to save $$, is there any reason you're not considering just using a digital projector to provide your rear-projection image? They are much brighter than any enlarger and shifts, tilts, etc. would be a moot point since you could exploit either auto keystone correction or adjust the projected image in Photoshop to conform to the screen height, angle, etc. The newer projectors (Canon's for instance) have great resolution and with the LCOS technology (liquid crystal on silicon), they've eliminated the "screen door' effect you'd get with older projectors. Photographic images look stunning from this latest group of projectors. Just a thought. Best of success with the project! Dan info at DanBurkholder.com www.DanBurkholder.com On Nov 29, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Ryuji Suzuki wrote: > I'm trying to make 5x7 or 4x5 digital positives. > > There are a couple of small photo printers, such as Epson > Picturemate Charm and Canon Pixma mini320. Are they compatible > with Pictorico or other transparent film? Does anyone make > digital negative with these printers? > > Ryuji > > -- > Ryuji Suzuki > "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From rs at silvergrain.org Mon Nov 29 22:06:09 2010 From: rs at silvergrain.org (Ryuji Suzuki) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:06:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: digital positive (negative) question In-Reply-To: References: <20101129.013828.135923746.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Message-ID: <20101129.170609.218892302.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> From: Dan Burkholder Subject: [alt-photo] Re: digital positive (negative) question Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:30:58 -0500 > Your project sounds very interesting. Other than perhaps > trying to save $$, is there any reason you're not > considering just using a digital projector to provide your > rear-projection image? By replacing the enlarger light bulb with a xenon discharge flash tube, I can get much more instantaneous output and also good daylight color balance. Yeah, I would not like the dim yellow light from regular enlarger tungsten bulb. -- Ryuji Suzuki "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) From rs at silvergrain.org Mon Nov 29 22:12:01 2010 From: rs at silvergrain.org (Ryuji Suzuki) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 17:12:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <4CF36909.9090502@gmail.com> References: <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> <4CF36909.9090502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101129.171201.15702625.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> From: Greg Schmitz Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:49:13 -0900 > There is also the Procabin 67 projector - which has a good > reputation, if format is not an issue for you. Since I'd be projecting an inkjet digital positive, it's probably better to start with a larger size. > Are you trying to make prints on a photosensitive material > or display what you already have - not sure since you > referred to a "projector?" Neither. I'm projecting an image on rear projection screen, and have some foreground subject (still life or live model or what not) lit by studio flash system, and photograph a new image. This technique used to be common in movies (using continuous light source) but much of it got replaced by digital editing process nowadays. Sure, Photoshop CS5 has a new feature called "refine edge" and it's easier to cut out a picture and place it on another layer of background image, but I'd rather prefer to do this in actual physical space like the old days. If alt process means doing something in ways other than the mainstream methodology, I think this sure qualifies... -- Ryuji Suzuki "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 29 22:42:58 2010 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:42:58 -0800 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? References: <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org><4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> <4CF36909.9090502@gmail.com> <20101129.171201.15702625.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryuji Suzuki" To: Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 2:12 PM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? > From: Greg Schmitz > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal > enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? > Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:49:13 -0900 > >> There is also the Procabin 67 projector - which has a >> good >> reputation, if format is not an issue for you. > > Since I'd be projecting an inkjet digital positive, it's > probably better to start with a larger size. > >> Are you trying to make prints on a photosensitive >> material >> or display what you already have - not sure since you >> referred to a "projector?" > > Neither. > > I'm projecting an image on rear projection screen, and > have > some foreground subject (still life or live model or what > not) > lit by studio flash system, and photograph a new image. > This > technique used to be common in movies (using continuous > light > source) but much of it got replaced by digital editing > process > nowadays. Sure, Photoshop CS5 has a new feature called > "refine > edge" and it's easier to cut out a picture and place it on > another layer of background image, but I'd rather prefer > to do > this in actual physical space like the old days. > > If alt process means doing something in ways other than > the mainstream methodology, I think this sure qualifies... > I think you would do best by making a projector from a view camera. You would have to build a suitable back to take a holder and to match to the light source. For large screen projection some sort of condenser source is necessary. One can use a parabolic reflector as was done by Elwood in their enlargers but making such a mirror might be expensive. Whatever the source it must provide even illumination especially the structure of the lamp should not be imaged on the screen. Ancient motion picture practice was to use lantern slide size transparencies for rear projection of stills. One problem is that the fall off of illumination of the projector adds to the fall off in the camera. In motion picture practice this was minimized by using the longest throw possible. Rear projection for both still and moving images was often done using two connected stages so that the projector could be placed well back of the screen. Various typse of "high-gain" screens were experimented with. Ideally the screen would be a Fresnel to concentrate the light from the projector to the camera but it would be limited to distances for both that worked. A diffusion source would probably have too much loss. Getting enough light is definitely a problem and is not trivial. Since the distance of the lens from the image is long a normal camera lens used with the front facing the projection screen would be closer to its optimum correction than an enlarging lens. I should mention here that any lens with fixed elements is completely corrected at only one subject distance. For camera lenses this is infinity or close to it; for an enlarging lens it is at whatever distance corresponds to the magnification ratio the lens is expected to be used for. There are special lenses for photo-mural use. Beause light is an issue the lens must be one that has good performance at large openings. In the past there have been projectors made for stage presentation that might work for this. I have no idea where to find them now but its worth doing some searching. Good luck and success with your project. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From coldbay1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 08:17:11 2010 From: coldbay1 at gmail.com (Greg Schmitz) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:17:11 -0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <20101129.171201.15702625.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> References: <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> <4CF36909.9090502@gmail.com> <20101129.171201.15702625.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> Message-ID: <4CF4B307.3090305@gmail.com> Ryuji, There were a number of companies making rear and front projection systems in the 1970's and early 80's for commercial portrait photographers. Perhaps you've seen some of those cheesy portraits with studio lighting and fall foliage in the background. I never used them, but can remember seeing units at trade shows. Don't know what formats they accepted for projection, but they did, as I recall, use strobes for their light source. You might have some luck looking at copies of RANGEFINDER or PPA's PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER magazines from the 1970s. I think both did some articles on the subject. --greg On 11/29/10 1:12 PM, Ryuji Suzuki wrote: > From: Greg Schmitz > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? > Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:49:13 -0900 > >> There is also the Procabin 67 projector - which has a good >> reputation, if format is not an issue for you. > Since I'd be projecting an inkjet digital positive, it's > probably better to start with a larger size. > >> Are you trying to make prints on a photosensitive material >> or display what you already have - not sure since you >> referred to a "projector?" > Neither. > > I'm projecting an image on rear projection screen, and have > some foreground subject (still life or live model or what not) > lit by studio flash system, and photograph a new image. This > technique used to be common in movies (using continuous light > source) but much of it got replaced by digital editing process > nowadays. Sure, Photoshop CS5 has a new feature called "refine > edge" and it's easier to cut out a picture and place it on > another layer of background image, but I'd rather prefer to do > this in actual physical space like the old days. > > If alt process means doing something in ways other than > the mainstream methodology, I think this sure qualifies... > > -- > Ryuji Suzuki > "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From coldbay1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 30 08:48:26 2010 From: coldbay1 at gmail.com (Greg Schmitz) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 23:48:26 -0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt shift mechanism? In-Reply-To: <4CF4B307.3090305@gmail.com> References: <20101128.204602.203709665.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF364BB.6000807@gmail.com> <4CF36909.9090502@gmail.com> <20101129.171201.15702625.lifebook-4234377@silvergrain.org> <4CF4B307.3090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CF4BA5A.2020508@gmail.com> You might also take a look at Albert Boni's extensive bibliography PHOTOGRAPHIC LITERATURE, 1960-1970. I have a copy but it's 4000 miles from where I am so I can't check it at the moment and what I have here is Boni's first bibliography that covers the period prior to 1960. Not surprisingly there is no mention of rear projection in Boni's first work. --g On 11/29/10 11:17 PM, Greg Schmitz wrote: > > Ryuji, > > There were a number of companies making rear and front projection > systems in the 1970's and early 80's for commercial portrait > photographers. Perhaps you've seen some of those cheesy portraits > with studio lighting and fall foliage in the background. I never used > them, but can remember seeing units at trade shows. Don't know what > formats they accepted for projection, but they did, as I recall, use > strobes for their light source. You might have some luck looking at > copies of RANGEFINDER or PPA's PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER magazines > from the 1970s. I think both did some articles on the subject. > > --greg > > On 11/29/10 1:12 PM, Ryuji Suzuki wrote: >> From: Greg Schmitz >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: a large-format horizontal enlarger with tilt >> shift mechanism? >> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:49:13 -0900 >> >>> There is also the Procabin 67 projector - which has a good >>> reputation, if format is not an issue for you. >> Since I'd be projecting an inkjet digital positive, it's >> probably better to start with a larger size. >> >>> Are you trying to make prints on a photosensitive material >>> or display what you already have - not sure since you >>> referred to a "projector?" >> Neither. >> >> I'm projecting an image on rear projection screen, and have >> some foreground subject (still life or live model or what not) >> lit by studio flash system, and photograph a new image. This >> technique used to be common in movies (using continuous light >> source) but much of it got replaced by digital editing process >> nowadays. Sure, Photoshop CS5 has a new feature called "refine >> edge" and it's easier to cut out a picture and place it on >> another layer of background image, but I'd rather prefer to do >> this in actual physical space like the old days. >> >> If alt process means doing something in ways other than >> the mainstream methodology, I think this sure qualifies... >> >> -- >> Ryuji Suzuki >> "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis) >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >