[alt-photo] Re: Casein source

Christina Anderson zphoto at montana.net
Fri Apr 15 00:58:37 GMT 2011

I am hardly the one to ask at the moment about casein (it would be the blind leading the blind), as I am just working all these issues out and will certainly change all my current practices when I draw conclusions, more like several months down the road, but a very saturated starting point would be 1 tube pigment in 250ml casein. Layer is thinner than gum so you can use more color in the mix.  Peter Blackburn or Alberto Novo would be better ones to ask than I. Also Keith Gerling has done a bunch.
Use low am di--10%--or pot di 10%. 3 minute UVBL exposure. Development is quick--brush and roller can develop a print in under 15 minutes, for example. Hence the shorter times--layer dries quicker, exposes quicker, develops quicker, and with a hair dryer all of these steps are really quick tho a big waste of energy.
But the curve is different than gum!! Neg needs to be denser and flatter than my 10/80 curve I have on alternativephotography.com.
I would not start a casein project for Ruth's class when you are doing so well with your gums. Save it for summer exploration when you are not under the clock, IMHO.
I am not in town at the moment by notes and other such stuff and won't be til next week, but did not want you to think I was ignoring you or, worse, that I had any holy grail at this point in my exploration :)

Christina Z. Anderson

On Apr 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Alan MacKellar wrote:

> Christina,
> I just received a liter of the Schmincke Cesein Liquid provided by Kremer
> which as I think you said many messages ago, does not give me any ideas
> about how much of it to mix with the pigment, and then the ammonium
> dichromate.  You have given me a lot of information, and probably the answer
> below, but how many ml of this Casein would you combine with say a tube of
> watercolor pigment, to be later combined with the light sensitizer at the
> point of brushing?
> I am slow minded and had trouble following you experts on the proper
> proportions.  And where did the student in your class get his/her tri-color
> savings in time?  In drying of the emulsion time, use of a cool hair dryer,
> exposure under UV, in development time in water?  I am a student with Ruth
> this semester, and our final project is due in 2 weeks, so should I stick
> with the slower gum arabic method?
> Sorry to bother you at an equally busy time for you, but any method that
> produces the same quality quicker is welcome.
> Love to all,
> Alan
> ----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Christina Anderson
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 11:57 AM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Casein source
> Dear You Two,
> This is what I found interesting in Marek's website mention, why this list
> is so nice to have these conversations.
> I did a layer of casein on Yupo and on Kwik Print plastic. On both I was
> able to wipe off pigment like wiping chalk off a chalkboard. However, if
> what the website says is correct, that if you can wipe paint off you need
> more binder, then I will go back and revisit Yupo and Kwik Print paper with
> less pigment/more binder. So until proven guilty, these papers are not out
> yet.
> Two, the benefit of ammonium caseinate powder is there is no additional
> chemical needed, no heat, just mix n go. It whips up to egg foam, subsides
> in a couple hours to a pancake syrup consistency (thinner than the Schmincke
> which is a very thick corn syrup) and gets more watery in the week. Very
> thin, fine, works fine even two weeks later except that if using earth
> pigments it must be shaken (as in gum, too). I use thymol as a preservative.
> The watery solution doesn't go "off" and become unusable, albeit thinner.
> Three, the fact that in the ammonia recipe the chemical reaction is created
> over time with no heat is probably why the ammonium caseinate works so well
> for me and not the sodium caseinate, that it has the "reactor" in it already
> which the sodium does not. My sodium caseinate is still a rubbery glob after
> several days, only usable if heated to a liquid, just as gelatin.
> The odd thing about casein is 40g mixed in 400ml water, my proportion, still
> only produced 400ml, of final solution. In other words the powder at 10%
> doesn't add enough volume to make it worth mixing first in 300 and then
> adding water to 400ml.  Granted, evaporation happens in MT with 20%
> humidity...but when Marek's site says 2 parts casein + 16 parts water I
> think it really does end up to be very close to 2 IN 16 not 2 IN total
> volume 18, not that there is much difference, the former being 12.5% and the
> latter about 11%.
> Since Schmincke and Kremer provide a liquid version of casein binder do you
> think there is a market for the ammonium caseinate powder? Wonder why the
> paint companies don't provide the ammonium caseinate? There's got to be a
> reason, perhaps a viscosity reason, that just regular casein is sold only it
> seems.
> Chris
> Three, the two recipes on Marek's website say this:
> 	. 2  parts Casein Powder
> 	. 16 parts water
> 	. 1 part Ammonium Carbonate
> 	(or clear liquid ammonia*)
> 	. Dry Pigments paste water
> OR
> 	. 5 parts Casein Powder
> 	. 9 parts Cold Water
> 	. 2 parts Borax
> 	. 9 parts Hot water
> Christina Z. Anderson
> christinaZanderson.com
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