[alt-photo] Re: Casein source

Christina Anderson zphoto at montana.net
Fri Apr 15 16:10:16 GMT 2011


The website that Marek mentioned said this in the Introduction paragraph:

Paint a small swatch on cardboard and let it dry for at least one hour. If it rubs off, you need to increase the amount of binder.

Two, my point about ammonium caseinate vs. sodium caseinate is that the ammonium mixed up with no additional additives whereas the sodium did not. I have even heated it twice and it is still way too thick. Probably why it works best for painters. I am waiting to see if it ultimately gets more liquid as ammonium did.

 I do know the sodium works fine because it is what Sam Wang uses and what Franklin Enos did  as well. Here is one formula that Enos had in his notes, below. There are lots of other formulas I have to decipher, and he occasionally used saponin (?) for I don't know what...

1.14.81 Wrote this to Ross, Sam, Albert
10g sod casein pdr
150cc water
60 drops glycerol
4 drops photoflo
12 drops 50% thymol
then 2.3.81 mixed 15g in 150cc
printed this 1.5-3mn


Christina Z. Anderson

On Apr 15, 2011, at 12:53 AM, Alberto Novo wrote:

> Chris, 
>> I did a layer of casein on Yupo and on Kwik Print plastic. On both I was able to wipe off pigment like wiping chalk off a chalkboard. However, if what the website says is correct, that if you can wipe paint off you need more binder, then I will go back and revisit Yupo and Kwik Print paper with less pigment/more binder. So until proven guilty, these papers are not out yet.
> Which website? 
>> Three, the fact that in the ammonia recipe the chemical reaction is created over time with no heat is probably why the ammonium caseinate works so well for me and not the sodium caseinate, that it has the "reactor" in it already which the sodium does not. My sodium caseinate is still a rubbery glob after several days, only usable if heated to a liquid, just as gelatin.
> I would cite again US pat. 4,865,953 (1989) where sodium caseinate is used with ammonium dichromate to create a photoresist for etching TV screens. The composition is:
> 680 cc of 25% sodium hydroxide
> 60,000 cc of water
> 6,000 g of casein
> heated at 80°C for 30 minutes.
> To this solution is added some wetting agent, and ammonium or sodium dichromate in proportion of 5-15% of the casein.
> The amount of sodium hydroxide is near 3% of casein, and the solution is something less than 10% in casein
> The patentees declare that this composition has increased photosensitivity and shelf life than similar solutions made with borax. 
>> Since Schmincke and Kremer provide a liquid version of casein binder do you think there is a market for the ammonium caseinate powder? Wonder why the paint companies don't provide the ammonium caseinate? There's got to be a reason, perhaps a viscosity reason, that just regular casein is sold only it seems.
> Those solutions are for painters and not for alt-printers. I am not a painter, but I believe that viscosity might be one among the more important properties in painting. 
> Alberto
> www.grupponamias.com
> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group
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