[alt-photo] Re: The Athenatype -- the silver sister of the Ziatype

[Loris Medici]

Thanks for the thorough answer.

I wasn't referring to the original Satista paper, but to the recent works /
experiments of Philippe Ayral (don't know the exact parameters of his
workflow), Marek Matuzs plus some APUG members. (I clearly remember there
are several threads / sub-threads about the possibility of using ammonium
iron(III) oxalate with silver nitrate; it's an often recurring topic...)

I tried the variation as described by Marek here:
http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/platinum/satista-prints
Only two trials, (one w/ pt, the other w/o pt) with OK results... Then I
left it aside because it was too messy for my taste.

I also tried to combine the silver and iron solutions together and
experienced sludge / precipitation, therefore I didn't bothered to put this
mess onto the paper. I guess I should have been much more open minded! ;)

I guess I'm going to try this again - using your workflow this time...

Thanks again for sharing.

Regards,
Loris.


-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Sullivan
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:46 PM
To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Athenatype -- the silver sister of the Ziatype

Actually mo. The Satista process was a silver platinum process. It was
invented by William Willis of platinum fame and sold by Willis & Clements.
This was Patented by William Willis in 1914 when WWI caused the platinum
market to skyrocket. The paper is a mix of silver nitrate, ferric oxalate,
and pot chloroplatinite. The process was a complex double coating system
made necessary by the fact that silver nitrate is precipitated into silver
chloride when any of the platinum chlorides are used. It is not a true POP
process as it requires development in pot oxalate after exposure. Christian
Nze and I worked on a Satista process where silver coated paper was
developed in glycerin, pot oxalate and palladium salts. We discussed this on
the forum here in the late 90's. Our process also was not POP.

I have in the past duplicated Satista insofar as Willis patent goes.
(Patents often try to hide things!) From the patent description the paper
did not produce real blacks which was not a deficit in 1914 photographic
aesthetics.

The Athenatype has no platinum, palladium or gold in it as Satista does.

It uses Amm ferric oxalate and not ferric oxalate.

It is fully POP as Satista was not. Satista gave a somewhat "better" print
out for judging exposure but required a developer.

Various toners can be used allow much more control over image tone and
intensity whereas Satista does not as the toner is bound in the paper and
not under the control of the photographer.

If by chance the print is a throw-away, then the noble salt need not be
wasted in the Athenatype whereas your platinum is committed in the Satista
print.

Both functionally and chemically the Satista is quite different from the
Athenatype. From the point of view of the paper itself, the only commonality
they share is silver nitrate. Functionally the Satista is DOP and the
Athenatype is POP.

To say that the Athenatype is a variation of the Satista is a stretch. They
are both in the end a toned silver process, bound in, in the Satista,
external in the Athenatype but that is about all they share in common. The
Athenatype is closer in chemistry and functionality to the Ziatype, only the
Ziatype contains no silver.

The use of silica appears to be incidental to the process as it works on
undusted paper. More needs to be done on this.

W. Willis patent: 

http://www.google.com/patents?id=kZFEAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=platinum+silver+will
is&hl=en&ei=e1pWTqDBDsfmiAKQ2-imCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ve
d=0CD4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=platinum%20silver%20willis&f=false

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Loris Medici
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 12:10 AM
To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Athenatype -- the silver sister of the Ziatype

Thanks for sharing.

Looks like a variation of the (so called) Satista process, with the
additional step of applying fumed silica to the paper beforehand... ??? (In
statista you apply silver nitrate after exposure whereas in this one you mix
it with the sensitizer beforehand. BTW, I think it's pretty normal to have
sludge when mixing ammonium iron(III) oxalate and silver nitrate...)

Regards,
Loris.


-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Sullivan
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:27 PM
To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
Subject: [alt-photo] The Athenatype -- the silver sister of the Ziatype

http://bostick-sullivan.invisionzone.com/index.php?/forum/89-athenatype/

 

Still beta and experimental.