[alt-photo] Re: pigments for gum

[Peter Blackburn]

Hi Diana and Trevor—
 
Oh, anyone is free to "steal" my palate and use the pigments I use—that is, if they find them on their own. What's wrong with doing your own testing, research, and labor? I did. Didn't hurt me one bit and I learned sooooooooooo much that I probably wouldn't have otherwise. I think I've made it clear how I found my pigments, which I believe is fair enough. Sorry, spoon feeding every detail to grown up, perfectly capable adults is not my forte. I come from Scottish stock. Maybe that explains it.
 
What's the saying— " Give someone a fish, eat for a day. Teach them to fish and . . ." well, you know the rest.
 
By the way, Trevor, my daughter knows all of my printing techniques so I'm not THAT stingy. Not sure she understands it all, though (she's only 16 and cyanotype is more to her liking). This is all great discussion and I appreciate the interaction. Cheers!

Peter J. Blackburn
 

> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:58:26 +0300
> From: trevor at chalkjockeys.com
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: pigments for gum
> 
> Oh, don't be so hard on Peter, Diana. My great-grandmother from Brit, 
> Iowa apparently had this bread and butter recipe that took the prize 
> year after year at the county fair...hands down. It was so good, in 
> fact, that she was asked not to enter her pickles anymore to give other 
> people a chance to win. My grandmother, the sole bearer of this recipe, 
> has always been quite protective of its contents, but manages to squeak 
> out the random batch here and there, much to the delight of everyone 
> that gets to sample the goods. However, she has "lost" the recipe and is 
> well into her twilight. I've tried for many years to pry this recipe 
> from her tight grip with no success. I've often pondered her reluctance 
> to share, even with her own family, but keep arriving at the same 
> conclusion...she's been a straight-ticket Republican since she could vote.
> 
> On 12/13/11 6:00 PM, Diana Bloomfield wrote:
> > Thanks, Chris. That's very generous of you. I agree, too, that this 
> > List has been incredibly helpful and informative through the years. 
> > And I know I mention this all the time, like I have stock in the PF 
> > Journal or something, but whenever I look at that stack of the ones I 
> > own, I am consistently amazed (and appreciative) of how generous and 
> > knowledgeable the contributors were.
> >
> > And, Peter, while I understand your point that there are so many 
> > variables, that to provide your "A List" would be somewhat pointless-- 
> > that does conflict with the idea that others might be able (or want) 
> > to "steal" your palette or your "signature" way of working. My 
> > suspicion is that anybody who takes the trouble and time to learn and 
> > practice gum-printing, probably also desperately wants to have his or 
> > her own "signature style," and is in-- no way-- interested in copying 
> > someone else's printing.
> >
> > I remember taking a course, years ago, with Tom Carabasi-- an amazing 
> > photographer. Someone in the workshop commented that he was incredibly 
> > generous with information, and how rare that seemed to be among 
> > photographers. And I'll never forget his response. He said something 
> > to the effect -- "I'll tell you anything you want to know, in detail, 
> > because no matter how much information I give you, I know you (no one) 
> > will ever be able to see and print the way I do."
> >
> > That comment suggests a certain security about his own work and way of 
> > seeing, but also simply speaks the truth. For any of us who have 
> > taught (or taken) photography workshops, alt process or otherwise, you 
> > know that you can stand there and watch someone (or they can stand 
> > there and watch you) print in detail, with all kinds of notes in front 
> > of them-- but the look of the instructor will never be duplicated, or 
> > even similar (in my experience). And that's not for a lack of ability 
> > on anyone's part; rather, that's because we each have our own way of 
> > seeing and doing, and we also want to have our own "look" and 
> > signature style. If I went to all this trouble to learn gum, or any 
> > alt process, and my work ended up looking like someone else's, I'd be 
> > really disillusioned with that.
> >
> > So, to my mind, to offer a list of pigments people might like to try 
> > is simply a helpful guideline. I've used pigments others have 
> > suggested here on the List. Some I loved and continue to use; others 
> > not so much. But I do like those helpful suggestions.. So, thanks, 
> > Chris, and others.
> >
> > Diana
> >
> > On Dec 13, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Christina Anderson wrote:
> >
> >> Trevor and others,
> >>
> >> Please forgive, looooooonnnnngggg post.
> >>
> >> Caveat: The following for those who size.
> >>
> >> I hope I am not being so bold as to butt into your convo with Peter, 
> >> and my list is not his list which you had asked for, but maybe this 
> >> is of help to you anyway.
> >>
> >> My only requirement for a pigment to make my list is that it is 
> >> lightfast. I don't care about staining vs. non-staining because 
> >> sizing makes that a moot point. I do care about lightfastness, and 
> >> have had to eliminate questionable colors that I love, mostly in the 
> >> red category. There is speculation that a pigment imbedded in a 
> >> hardened layer of gum might be more lightfast therefore, and maybe 
> >> one can therefore use a pigment in the "II" lightfast category, but 
> >> I've just stayed with the ones below that I can depend on.
> >>
> >> I keep about 30 on hand at any time, but tend to use only several of 
> >> each color. For instance, I used to use PR 209 but it is too cherry 
> >> or peachy red for my tastes now. I can spot it a mile away in prints 
> >> I have used it in.
> >> Another color I used to use is PY110, a beautiful color but awfully 
> >> gold. It is good at times, though! Other practitioners will vary.
> >>
> >> I don't much use greens or oranges, really...or purple.
> >>
> >> PIgment choice for gum is huge. For casein, my deciding factor, since 
> >> I am a stock pigment/colloid kind of person, would be those that 
> >> don't contain metallic salts that precipitate casein. I learned that 
> >> the hard way. My favorite yellow, Nickel Azo PY150 will become a lump 
> >> after several weeks. So did my magenta.
> >>
> >> DS is Daniel Smith, WN Winsor Newton, MG M. Graham, M Maimeri, then 
> >> there's Schmincke and Rembrandt and Da Vinci on there, too. I usually 
> >> do this: I find a lightfast pigment by number, then I buy all brands 
> >> of it that I can locate of the high quality kind.
> >>
> >> I don't use student grade. I rarely buy WN because it is expensive 
> >> here, albeit good. I absolutely LOVE Schmincke and Maimeri but I 
> >> usually use M. Graham because it is so darn cheap and it is what is 
> >> available at our university bookstore. I teach, in fact, with stock 
> >> solutions of M. Graham mixed up in half-liter bottles. A magenta, 
> >> cyan, yellow and then a burnt sienna and a black.
> >>
> >> My sources of information are Wilcox, Handprint.com, Hilary Page, and 
> >> Daniel Smith. If you are not a book junkie as I am, Handprint.com is 
> >> an incredible and FREE source.
> >>
> >> I have begun the daunting task of weeding through all my gum research 
> >> and organizing it, so I am sure over the next year there will be more 
> >> of this, until someone flames the list for being too gum-centric :)
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Reds
> >> PV19R gamma quinacridone (transparent, red biased magenta. Don’t 
> >> confuse with the bluer magenta PV19 beta)
> >> WN permanent rose
> >> MG quinacridone rose
> >> DS quinacridone rose
> >> DS quinacridone red
> >> M primary red
> >> M rose lake
> >> Schmincke ruby red
> >> PR112 naphthol AS-D red (semi-transparent orange red)
> >> MG napthol red
> >> PR178 perylene red (semi-transparent red leaning slightly toward violet)
> >> DS perylene red--gorgeous bloody color
> >> PR179 perylene maroon (transparent, leaning toward orange or violet, 
> >> depending on brand)
> >> WN perylene maroon
> >> DS perylene maroon (they say semi-transparent--another gorgeous blood 
> >> red)
> >> Schmincke deep red
> >> PR188 naphthol AS BON arylamide (semi-opaque orange red)
> >> DS organic vermillion (they say semi-transparent)
> >> WN scarlet lake
> >> Da Vinci permanent red
> >> PR 209 quinacridone red (bright, transparent orange red)
> >> MG quinacridone red
> >> WN quinacridone red
> >> M tiziano red
> >> DS quinacridone coral--gorgeous peachy red
> >> Utrecht quinacridone red
> >> PR 254 diketo-pyrrolo pyrrole red (bright transparent red)
> >> DS pyrrol red (they say semi-transparent)
> >> WN winsor red
> >> M sandal red
> >> Rembrandt permanent red medium and deep
> >> Schmincke scarlet red
> >> Sennelier red
> >> PR255 diketo-pyrrolo pyrrole red, pyrrole scarlet (transparent orange 
> >> red)
> >> DS pyrrol scarlet (they say semi-transparent)
> >> Rembrandt permanent red medium
> >> Schmincke vermilion (hue)
> >> PR260 isoindoline scarlet (orange red leaning toward dull and opaque)
> >> Old Holland vermilion (hue) extra (no blue reflectance so mixes well 
> >> with other warm colors and with greens)
> >> PR264 diketo-pyrrolo pyrrole rubine (transparent red)
> >> DS pyrrol crimson (they say semi-transparent)
> >> WN winsor red deep
> >> Yellows
> >> I vacillate in my yellows between cool and warm, generally preferring 
> >> a bright and clear unbiased one such as PY97, PY151, and PY175. 
> >> Otherwise for warm and deep I use PY110 or PY139, finding them 
> >> interchangeable except for PY139’s slight opacity. One pretty gutsy 
> >> yellow I’ve been using of late is the Rowney PY138. All I can say 
> >> is...WOW. Wear sunglasses.
> >> PY3 arylide yellow 10G (transparent, green bias)
> >> DS hansa yellow light (they say semi-transparent)
> >> Schmincke lemon yellow
> >> Sennelier lemon yellow
> >> Utrecht lemon yellow
> >> Holbein aureolin
> >> PO49 quinacridone gold (transparent)
> >> DS quinacridone gold
> >> PY65 arylide yellow 3RN (transparent, orange bias)
> >> WN Winsor yellow deep
> >> DS hansa yellow deep (they say semi-transparent)
> >> Utrecht hansa yellow deep
> >> Schmincke chrome yellow deep
> >> PY97 arylide yellow FGL (semi-transparent, green bias)
> >> DS hansa yellow medium
> >> M primary yellow
> >> Da Vinci arylide yellow
> >> PY 110 isoindolinone yellow R (neutralized orange yellow, 
> >> semi-transparent)
> >> DS permanent yellow deep (they say transparent)
> >> PY138 quinophthalone yellow (transparent, slight green bias)
> >> Rowney Artists permanent yellow
> >> Fragonard permanent lemon yellow
> >> PY139 isoindoline yellow (semi-opaque orange yellow)
> >> M permanent yellow deep
> >> PY150 nickel azomethene yellow (transparent greenish yellow)
> >> DS nickel azo yellow
> >> WN transparent yellow
> >> Schmincke translucent yellow
> >> PY151 benzimidazolone yellow H4G (semi-transparent greenish yellow)
> >> MG azo yellow (they say transparent)
> >> Schmincke aureolin modern
> >> PY 153 nickel dioxine yellow (semi-transparent orange yellow)
> >> WN new gamboge
> >> DS new gamboge (they call it transparent)
> >> Utrecht Indian yellow
> >> Sennelier Indian yellow
> >> PY154 benzimidazolone yellow H3G (transparent orange yellow)
> >> WN Winsor yellow
> >> Sennelier yellow light
> >> Rembrandt azo yellow light
> >> Schmincke pure yellow
> >> PY 159 zirconium praseodymium silicate
> >> WN Winsor lemon yellow deep
> >> PY 175 benzimidazolone yellow H6G (two-toned, orange in mass, green 
> >> in tint, mixes well)
> >> WN Winsor lemon
> >> M permanent yellow lemon
> >> Schmincke chrome yellow lemon
> >> Blues
> >> For tricolor, thalo blue is saturated, transparent, and beautiful.
> >> PB15 phthalocyanine blue ( transparent greenish blue)
> >> M phthalocyanine blue
> >> Utrecht phthalo blue
> >> DaVinci phthalo blue
> >> PB15:1 phthalocyanine blue
> >> Schmincke phthalo blue
> >> PB15:3 phthalocyanine blue
> >> DS phthalo blue
> >> MG phthalocyanine blue
> >> Sennelier phthalo blue
> >> M primary blue-cyan
> >> Winsor blue, green shade
> >> PB29 Ultramarine blue (a reddish transparent blue)
> >> WN French ultramarine
> >> MG ultramarine blue
> >> Holbein ultramarine light and deep
> >> DS ultramarine blue (they say semi-trasparent)
> >> M ultramarine
> >> PB60 indanthrone blue (a dark blue jean blue, transparent)
> >> DS indanthrone blue
> >> M faience blue
> >> WN indanthrene blue
> >> Schmincke delft blue
> >> Schmincke dark blue indigo
> >> Holbein royal blue
> >> Other Colors
> >> There are lots of other colors to use, for instance, traditional 
> >> choices such as iron oxide earth pigments. I would suggest a black 
> >> and a brown for duotones.
> >> PBk9 ivory black (warm to neutral, semi-opaque to opaque--MG says 
> >> opaque, DS says semi-transparent!) (less likely to stain according to 
> >> Stuart Melvin)
> >> PBk6 lamp black (blueish, semi-opaque to opaque --MG says 
> >> semi-opaque, DS says opaque)
> >> PBk7 carbon black (opaque and velvety)
> >> M carbon black is the only one I could find that is actually carbon 
> >> black…
> >> PW6 titanium white
> >> PBr7 raw (yellower) and burnt (oranger)sienna, raw (greener) and 
> >> burnt (browner) umber
> >> Raw Sienna is a clear, golden, semi-transparent yellow that is quite 
> >> muted and beautiful when used in tricolor. It does not stain.
> >> PO62 benzimidazolone orange (semi-opaque yellow orange)
> >> DS permanent orange
> >> WN Winsor orange
> >> M permanent orange
> >> Schmincke chrome orange
> >> DaVinci benzimida orange
> >> PY43 yellow ochre (semi-opaque)
> >> WN yellow ochre
> >> DS yellow ochre
> >> MG yellow ochre
> >> Utrecht yellow ochre
> >>
> >> Christina Z. Anderson
> >> christinaZanderson.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo