[alt-photo] Re: casein

Keith Gerling keith.gerling at gmail.com
Fri Mar 4 20:37:14 GMT 2011

Oh, regarding that image of the church in Slovenia:  that texture you see
was caused when I over exposed the first layer and ended up rolling a
terrycloth towel over the surface under great pressure.  It is not a "flaw"
in the process.  I liked the result, so I did the same thing to subsequent

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Keith Gerling <keith.gerling at gmail.com>wrote:

> I've been exploring casein since this thread began.  Here's a link to three
> prints:
> https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2088679&id=1173961982&l=fefc42482b
> I have to say that there is something almost "wrong" about being able to
> towel them off right out of the water.  And the water does stink!  I see
> absolutely NO difference between gum and casein in the finished print.
> Coating the emulsion is a little different than with gum.  The casein
> emulsion is somewhat thicker than with gum, and as someone said, it can be
> tricky to get it smoothed out before it dries, so I've been using a dry
> brush to "buff" out the brushstrokes, a step that I seldom do with gum
> anymore.  I guess you could say that one advantage is that I can actually
> brush another coat of casein emulsion over the top of a coat I've just
> applied but not yet exposed to light.  Like when more density is required.
> Trying that with gum invariably causes the underlying layer to dissolve and
> lift.
> All in all, it is a pretty nice process.  I cant see any compelling reason
> to switch from gum to casein, but I'm glad I tried it.
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>wrote:
>> Thanks, Alberto and Peter, for the comments,
>> When viewing Franklin's casein prints in person, it seemed the grain was
>> very fine, miniscule. The colors were brighter but still transparent.
>> Delicate is the word I would describe. And the layer looked very finely
>> grained and very thin. Ultra thin. No gloss anywhere like in a gum print. So
>> those were the differences I perceived in my lowly experience, only seeing a
>> handful of caseins in person.
>> Just think, Alberto, I will be able to see your caseins in person soon!
>> Chris
>> Christina Z. Anderson
>> christinaZanderson.com
>> On Feb 26, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Peter Blackburn wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello Alberto:
>> >
>> > It's been my experience in gum/casein printing that how a print appears
>> does not necessarily have anything to do with just the vehicle/binder. Here
>> in North Texas we have recently formed an alternative processes group which
>> meets once a month—a wonderful and extremely talented group of artists I
>> must say. I have shown my gum and casein work together side-by-side and no
>> one has been able to tell them apart. They are, or can be,
>> indistinguishable— which my point to them and to you is that gum and casein
>> can be viewed as alternatives to each other. Both are saturated when I want
>> them so, and subdued when the imagery calls for it. It's all based on many
>> factors such as negative preparation, pigment choices, exposure, water bath
>> handling, etc, etc. The only caveat here is that after working with casein
>> for a long time, making it from powdered milk, then from dried casein, and
>> now, directly from cheese, I find the direct method makse a great difference
>> and is the best approach for my work.
>> >
>> > I still consider myself a dedicated gum printer and only resorted to
>> learning casein when several years back the weather did not cooperate for
>> gum printing for many weeks. Sometime in the near future I will blog about
>> that valuable experience and comment more on casein at
>> alternativephotography.com.
>> >
>> > Well, the heavy overcast today prevented both gum and casein printing
>> here in the Dallas area. Cheers all!
>> >
>> > Peter J. Blackburn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: alt.list at albertonovo.it
>> >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> >> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:23:02 +0100
>> >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
>> >>
>> >>> Anyway, I do have a point to share in this email that may be of use to
>> the one or two casein printers in existence: has anyone tried this from
>> Kremer instead of making the somewhat laborious casein/ammonia mixture?
>> SInce it uses borax and is already in suspension, it would seem to be a
>> great substitution. But I'm the first to admit I am an armchair casein
>> printer, never having done it, and certainly would not make it my process of
>> choice because of my commitment to gum.
>> >>
>> >>> I found the patent on casein as well. It is not 271 but patent
>> 2,716,061. 1955. Lupo. But two sources on the web said the process in fact
>> dated from 1908 and don't know about that.
>> >>
>> >> Chris, I made some casein prints some years ago. I tried both casein
>> form
>> >> acidified powdered milk and from pure casein, dissolved in borax and in
>> >> ammonia. I deem the ammonia solution better than that in borax because
>> all
>> >> the excess of ammonia evaporates during drying.
>> >> In muy poor experience, I could define the look of gum and casein print
>> as:
>> >> gum:watercolor=casein:tempera
>> >> My casein prints are in the Rodolfo Namias Group site, but I have to
>> say
>> >> that I was interested chiefly to apply the different behaviour of
>> casein vs.
>> >> gum arabic to a few specific images and one pigment.
>> >>
>> >> As for the patent, I can add that there are lot of patents about using
>> >> alkaline casein and dichromate as a resist for the etching of TV color
>> >> screens, chiefly because casein is insoluble in acids. So, the
>> alkalinizing
>> >> agent (sodium hydroxyde, borax and ammonia), the ratios with
>> dichromate,
>> >> etc. have benn well studied.
>> >>
>> >> And finally, a member of Gruppo Namias tried casein print using my
>> detailed
>> >> notes, but he had very inconsistent results...
>> >>
>> >> Alberto
>> >> www.grupponamias.com
>> >> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo

More information about the Alt-photo-process-list mailing list