[alt-photo] Re: casein

Tue Mar 8 12:57:57 GMT 2011

I first batch I made months ago: honey colored and VERY thick.  I just made
another batch using Kremer and it's a real mess.  Thinner, whiter, and with
globs I cannot get to dissolve even with more ammonia than I used before.
Maybe I need to let this stuff age for awhile, while YOU do the research!
How did you mix yours?

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>wrote:

> Keith,
> (armchair caseinist here) I got my stuff from Kremer today and it is very
> thick. Enos' recipe is very thin. Enos' is like as thin as half and half,
> maybe even a bit thinner. Kremer's is like thick honey. Do you think that
> might be why it seems not so much different than gum to you? It is so much
> thinner than gum in my experiments and also the look is different: matte-ish
> when exposed, developed, and dried, and holds a huge pigment load for being
> very thin. I guess that relates to the "sturdy" part. I am actually quite
> intrigued with it...
> Maybe Peter can chime in with how thick his casein solution is that he
> prefers (e.g. using some descriptive term like pours like yogurt, or heavy
> cream, or skim milk, or half and half :))
> Chris
>
> Christina Z. Anderson
> christinaZanderson.com
>
> On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Keith Gerling wrote:
>
> > I've been exploring casein since this thread began.  Here's a link to
> three
> > prints:
> >
> >
> https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2088679&id=1173961982&l=fefc42482b
> >
> > I have to say that there is something almost "wrong" about being able to
> > towel them off right out of the water.  And the water does stink!  I see
> > absolutely NO difference between gum and casein in the finished print.
> > Coating the emulsion is a little different than with gum.  The casein
> > emulsion is somewhat thicker than with gum, and as someone said, it can
> be
> > tricky to get it smoothed out before it dries, so I've been using a dry
> > brush to "buff" out the brushstrokes, a step that I seldom do with gum
> > anymore.  I guess you could say that one advantage is that I can actually
> > brush another coat of casein emulsion over the top of a coat I've just
> > applied but not yet exposed to light.  Like when more density is
> required.
> > Trying that with gum invariably causes the underlying layer to dissolve
> and
> > lift.
> >
> > All in all, it is a pretty nice process.  I cant see any compelling
> reason
> > to switch from gum to casein, but I'm glad I tried it.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Alberto and Peter, for the comments,
> >>
> >> When viewing Franklin's casein prints in person, it seemed the grain was
> >> very fine, miniscule. The colors were brighter but still transparent.
> >> Delicate is the word I would describe. And the layer looked very finely
> >> grained and very thin. Ultra thin. No gloss anywhere like in a gum
> print. So
> >> those were the differences I perceived in my lowly experience, only
> seeing a
> >> handful of caseins in person.
> >>
> >> Just think, Alberto, I will be able to see your caseins in person soon!
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Christina Z. Anderson
> >> christinaZanderson.com
> >>
> >> On Feb 26, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Peter Blackburn wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hello Alberto:
> >>>
> >>> It's been my experience in gum/casein printing that how a print appears
> >> does not necessarily have anything to do with just the vehicle/binder.
> Here
> >> in North Texas we have recently formed an alternative processes group
> which
> >> meets once a month—a wonderful and extremely talented group of artists I
> >> must say. I have shown my gum and casein work together side-by-side and
> no
> >> one has been able to tell them apart. They are, or can be,
> >> indistinguishable— which my point to them and to you is that gum and
> casein
> >> can be viewed as alternatives to each other. Both are saturated when I
> want
> >> them so, and subdued when the imagery calls for it. It's all based on
> many
> >> factors such as negative preparation, pigment choices, exposure, water
> bath
> >> handling, etc, etc. The only caveat here is that after working with
> casein
> >> for a long time, making it from powdered milk, then from dried casein,
> and
> >> now, directly from cheese, I find the direct method makse a great
> difference
> >> and is the best approach for my work.
> >>>
> >>> I still consider myself a dedicated gum printer and only resorted to
> >> learning casein when several years back the weather did not cooperate
> for
> >> gum printing for many weeks. Sometime in the near future I will blog
> about
> >> that valuable experience and comment more on casein at
> >> alternativephotography.com.
> >>>
> >>> Well, the heavy overcast today prevented both gum and casein printing
> >> here in the Dallas area. Cheers all!
> >>>
> >>> Peter J. Blackburn
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: alt.list at albertonovo.it
> >>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> >>>> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:23:02 +0100
> >>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> >>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, I do have a point to share in this email that may be of use
> to
> >> the one or two casein printers in existence: has anyone tried this from
> >> Kremer instead of making the somewhat laborious casein/ammonia mixture?
> >> SInce it uses borax and is already in suspension, it would seem to be a
> >> great substitution. But I'm the first to admit I am an armchair casein
> >> printer, never having done it, and certainly would not make it my
> process of
> >> choice because of my commitment to gum.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I found the patent on casein as well. It is not 271 but patent
> >> 2,716,061. 1955. Lupo. But two sources on the web said the process in
> fact
> >> dated from 1908 and don't know about that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris, I made some casein prints some years ago. I tried both casein
> >> form
> >>>> acidified powdered milk and from pure casein, dissolved in borax and
> in
> >>>> ammonia. I deem the ammonia solution better than that in borax because
> >> all
> >>>> the excess of ammonia evaporates during drying.
> >>>> In muy poor experience, I could define the look of gum and casein
> print
> >> as:
> >>>> gum:watercolor=casein:tempera
> >>>> My casein prints are in the Rodolfo Namias Group site, but I have to
> say
> >>>> that I was interested chiefly to apply the different behaviour of
> casein
> >> vs.
> >>>> gum arabic to a few specific images and one pigment.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the patent, I can add that there are lot of patents about using
> >>>> alkaline casein and dichromate as a resist for the etching of TV color
> >>>> screens, chiefly because casein is insoluble in acids. So, the
> >> alkalinizing
> >>>> agent (sodium hydroxyde, borax and ammonia), the ratios with
> dichromate,
> >>>> etc. have benn well studied.
> >>>>
> >>>> And finally, a member of Gruppo Namias tried casein print using my
> >> detailed
> >>>> notes, but he had very inconsistent results...
> >>>>
> >>>> Alberto
> >>>> www.grupponamias.com
> >>>> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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