From zphoto at montana.net Sun May 1 23:52:19 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 19:52:19 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Casein structure In-Reply-To: References: , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, <730D4F27BD2640FD98F425ADCA28EF2D@TravlinHP>, <20110429171343.20012.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Message-ID: Marek, One more pigment bit the dust for a stock mix: red iron oxide, as Alberto predicted. However, it took another week or so longer than nickel azo yellow. So far all others are still usable since starting with casein testing end of Feb. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Marek Matusz wrote: > > > > Casein fanatics > Found this nice picture of the alpha casein molecule. > http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=134288 > > All those beautiful amino acids forming a peptide molecule. > This casein chemistry is definitely going to be fun. > Marek > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Mon May 2 00:06:44 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:06:44 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein In-Reply-To: References: , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> Message-ID: <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net> Marek, I am using 10% ammonium caseinate. I too am very entranced by the quick development, minutes with brush or roller, only 1/2 hour otherwise. So with quick exposure and quick development, it is really fast. Even if you scrape the heck out of it, the grain is very fine, impressionistic, not flaky like gum. And the layer is very thin. I am using 10% pot di 1:1 and 3 minute exposures, thus my coating of casein is only 5% casein and 5% pot di, or about .15g pot di per 8x10 layer, given about 3ml coating. No smell at all, except a slight foetidity when developing, like wet dog. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Apr 28, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Marek Matusz wrote: > > Alberto and Don, > It is interesting that I ended up with about 12% casein solution, very similar to yours. The ammonia smell from ammonium carbonate is rather faint, almost non existent. The solution feels like a typical gum solution. I used watercolour indantrone blue (Danil Smith) with more or less of what I would use for a monochromatic gum, much more concentrated then for a tricolour printing. > Th esensitizer consisted of 10cc of this ammonim caseinate/pigment solution and 5 cc of saturated ammonium dichromate. Coating was done with brush and then smoothed with a foam roller. I also use the foam roller to pick up excess of sensitizing solution. This results in a very even and thin coat. I use the same method for gum printing. The exposure was about 1 to 1:15 minutes on a bank of UV lights. With the same negative I would expose 2-3 minutes for gum. My negatives are actually palladium/carbon type, but that is what I use for gum printing. After a few minutes of soaking I could see some elements of print emerging and as advised by the posts took a very soft brush and started working on the print. It was really a wonderful experience and after a few minutes of brushing I had a great print with absolutely clean highlights and great tonality. > It was amazing how easy the whole process was. > Nex day I coated a second layer of caseinate/graphite gray and exposed for 45 seconds to add some density to shadows and tone down the intense blue. > I think I am hooked on the process and mesmerized by the ability to selectively use brushes or other tools for developing. > FOr a long time I wanted to print on silver or gold leaf and caseine might be the ticket. > After years of printing gum I am excited about this new process. > Marek > >> From: alt.list at albertonovo.it >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:25:32 +0200 >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein >> >> Don, >> >>> My first home made solution of casein still reeks of ammonia. Does anyone >>> know if that is normal? To make the solution I used common household ammonia >>> - 3%. Should I order some Ammonia hydroxide from the Formulary? I have a >>> lifetime supply of sodium hydroxide, would be best if I could get that to >>> work since the am. Hydroxide has serious hazmat fees to ship. >>> >>> After leaving the jar of liquid casein uncapped for a couple of days, I came >>> down to my darkroom to discover ants floating around in the solution. Seeing >>> that, I recapped the solution and left it sitting on the counter. This batch >>> was mixed on April 14th. There it still sits. >> >> Are you trying to let the ammonia evaporate from the solution, probably >> because you dislike its smell? >> It will take more time than it is required by the alkalinity of the solution >> to break the casein molecula. I prefer to use it in a few days from the >> preparation, or to keep it -tightly capped- in the refrigerator. >> If you wish to prepare sodium caseinate, then use: >> casein powder 6g >> water 50 cc >> sodium hydroxide 1.7% 10 cc >> Heat with stirring at 70-80?C for 15-30 in a water bath, then cool. >> >>> Is there any pointing in considering Calcium caseinate? >> >> Why to complicate your life if ammonium and sodium are enough? :-) >> >> Alberto >> www.grupponamias.com >> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From donsbryant at gmail.com Mon May 2 00:41:16 2011 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:41:16 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein In-Reply-To: <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net> References: , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net> Message-ID: <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers> Today I made my first printing test using the ammonium caseinate I made following (or supposedly following) the instructions and method suggested in E.J. Theisen's article published on the Unblinking Eye. Oh brother what a horrid mess. I printed the traditional Stouffer 21 step tablet and I had 4 distinct steps. And at the same time I printed an in camera negative that demonstrated the same ugly results. The coating was very splotchy, I had horrible dichromate staining. I also printed an in camera negative at the same time with very similar results. No detail, extremely weak pigment density. My printing time was about 2.5 minutes using a Nuarc 26K. I swag'ed the exposure time since I've not printed any gum prints on the Nuarc. I had to hose the print to get development started, perhaps I was just impatient. I used saturated am. dichromate and DS Graphite Grey coated on PVA'ed Lenox, per E.J.'s generic instructions. I'm glad that Chris and Marek are having success, time to stand back and assess my options. Don > Marek, I am using 10% ammonium caseinate. I too am very entranced by the quick development, minutes with brush or roller, only 1/2 hour otherwise. So with quick exposure and quick development, it is really fast. Even if you scrape the heck out of it, the grain is very fine, impressionistic, not flaky like gum. And the layer is very thin. I am using 10% pot di 1:1 and 3 minute exposures, thus my coating of casein is only 5% casein and 5% pot di, or about .15g pot di per 8x10 layer, given about 3ml coating. No smell at all, except a slight foetidity when developing, like wet dog. Chris > From zphoto at montana.net Mon May 2 02:08:48 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 22:08:48 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein In-Reply-To: <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers> References: , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net> <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers> Message-ID: <995E0B09-4097-4D5F-B571-054C999C0813@montana.net> Don, I started out with 15% am di and it was too strong. I bet if you drastically cut it down it'll work better for you. But I do find casein shorter scale on a Stouffers--gum about 4-6 stops (usually 5.5) and casein about 3. But that is a quickie observation; I'd have to do it over and over and see if that is for sure before betting my $$ on it. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On May 1, 2011, at 8:41 PM, Don Bryant wrote: > Today I made my first printing test using the ammonium caseinate I made > following (or supposedly following) the instructions and method suggested in > E.J. Theisen's article published on the Unblinking Eye. > > Oh brother what a horrid mess. I printed the traditional Stouffer 21 step > tablet and I had 4 distinct steps. And at the same time I printed an in > camera negative that demonstrated the same ugly results. The coating was > very splotchy, I had horrible dichromate staining. > > I also printed an in camera negative at the same time with very similar > results. No detail, extremely weak pigment density. My printing time was > about 2.5 minutes using a Nuarc 26K. I swag'ed the exposure time since I've > not printed any gum prints on the Nuarc. > > I had to hose the print to get development started, perhaps I was just > impatient. > > I used saturated am. dichromate and DS Graphite Grey coated on PVA'ed Lenox, > per E.J.'s generic instructions. > > I'm glad that Chris and Marek are having success, time to stand back and > assess my options. > > Don > >> > Marek, > I am using 10% ammonium caseinate. > I too am very entranced by the quick development, minutes with brush or > roller, only 1/2 hour otherwise. So with quick exposure and quick > development, it is really fast. > Even if you scrape the heck out of it, the grain is very fine, > impressionistic, not flaky like gum. And the layer is very thin. > I am using 10% pot di 1:1 and 3 minute exposures, thus my coating of casein > is only 5% casein and 5% pot di, or about .15g pot di per 8x10 layer, given > about 3ml coating. > No smell at all, except a slight foetidity when developing, like wet dog. > Chris >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From alt.list at albertonovo.it Mon May 2 07:26:07 2011 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 09:26:07 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein In-Reply-To: <995E0B09-4097-4D5F-B571-054C999C0813@montana.net> References: <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net> <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net> <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers> <995E0B09-4097-4D5F-B571-054C999C0813@montana.net> Message-ID: <20110502072607.13891.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it> > ... But I do find casein shorter scale on a Stouffers--gum about 4-6 stops (usually 5.5) and casein about 3. Mixing the same amount of pigment? My first experience was the contrary, that is a longer scale with casein. Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group From zphoto at montana.net Mon May 2 13:27:41 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:27:41 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein In-Reply-To: <20110502072607.13891.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it> References: <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net> <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it> <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net> <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers> <995E0B09-4097-4D5F-B571-054C999C0813@montana.net> <20110502072607.13891.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it> Message-ID: <1B5C0066-E8A6-4CF8-A75C-C9D40C0F0C50@montana.net> Yup, same amount of pigment. I think I remember you or Peter Blackburn saying this in one of your emails and was very surprised, so that's why I took my findings with a grain of salt, until someone else said it was short (Don or Marek). But until I do both gum and casein together on the same day and same pigment dilution and compare I won't stick to my opinion. When I do that, I will post the two step wedges together. I could not use the same curve I use for gum and had to go and develop a whole new set of curves for casein. Casein blocks up in the very deepest shadows right before black, and I find that it needs a slight increase in contrast in the deepest shadows in all three colors. Plus my curves for magenta and thalo, which are similar enough in gum to be interchangeable, are not in magenta and thalo in casein. Don, let me know when you calibrate casein what your curve looks like, too, if you find this to be the case. My curves are very odd. The other thing I noticed is the slight opacity to casein makes the shadows look a bit streaky, like if one were to use a cadmium yellow pigment as a last layer in gum on top of darker colors. I just got back from South Carolina where I was doing a gum workshop with the Fine Arts Center--calibrating the SUN and with no true contact printing frames, so everywhere I do a workshop there are challenges :) but I was able to spend some time with Sandy King and Sam and used Sam's Amergraph to expose a casein layer. So my next step is to use my Amergraph to see how that type light has an effect as well--what is it, mercury xenon?? Can't remember. And, down there we were using a 5% pot di, Don, with a 220 unit (?) exposure and that seemed plenty. I was still able to wipe off pigment with hard scrubbing in all but the deepest shadows (just one of the silly tests I do, to see how responsive a layer is to complete removal). Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On May 2, 2011, at 3:26 AM, Alberto Novo wrote: >> ... But I do find casein shorter scale on a Stouffers--gum about 4-6 stops (usually 5.5) and casein about 3. > > Mixing the same amount of pigment? My first experience was the contrary, that is a longer scale with casein. > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Tue May 3 03:24:30 2011 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 03:24:30 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] casein prints, examples In-Reply-To: <1B5C0066-E8A6-4CF8-A75C-C9D40C0F0C50@montana.net> References: , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, , <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net>, <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers>, <995E0B09-4097-4D5F-B571-054C999C0813@montana.net>, <20110502072607.13891.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it>, <1B5C0066-E8A6-4CF8-A75C-C9D40C0F0C50@montana.net> Message-ID: All, I am posting some examples of casein prints. Now, that I have made some good looking prints I am also positing my failures. It goes from the BAD prints to good looking prints. Bad prints came first. I am finds that size plays a significant part of how the process works. Surprisingly I made a good print on an unsized paper. Here is the link. You might have to copy it in your browser if it does not work at first (seems the address is too long) https://picasaweb.google.com/marekmatusz1/CaseinPrints# Marek From blackburnap at hotmail.com Tue May 3 16:05:43 2011 From: blackburnap at hotmail.com (Peter Blackburn) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:05:43 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Casein Update In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , , , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, , , , <3D8EDD3E-6E0A-4992-88A8-968941E82A6C@montana.net>, , <28A981C13B7F4341AAABA7E1CF7771D5@austinpowers>, , <995E0B09-4097-4D5F-B571-054C999C0813@montana.net>, , <20110502072607.13891.qmail@webmaildh3.aruba.it>, , <1B5C0066-E8A6-4CF8-A75C-C9D40C0F0C50@montana.net>, Message-ID: For everyone?or anyone following my casein trilogy story, the final episode is up: http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/open-blog/the-legend-of-casein-and-the-cruel-dragon-a-heros-welcome I have refrained from making any comments to the other casein posts here until I completely finish with the trilogy material. There will be an epilogue to the story posted next month which will be written in a more left brain manner to tie up loose ends, provide a moral or two, and maybe?maybe a recipe. My hope is that the essays will motivate others to explore casein. As with gum, there is certainly more than one way to practice the casein process. Cheers to all! By the way, the casein work I've seen so far from other posters, even the ones considered mistakes, have been remarkable. Peter J. Blackburn From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Tue May 3 18:00:41 2011 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 18:00:41 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Casein structure In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , , , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, , <730D4F27BD2640FD98F425ADCA28EF2D@TravlinHP>, , <20110429171343.20012.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it>, , Message-ID: Chris, Is the red iron oxide unsuitable because it does ot mix well, or somehow reacts with casein making it unsensitive to dichromate? I am using watercolor (Daniel SMith) tubes. SO far a few pigments that I tried seem to be OK for a mix and use at once method. I have not done stock pigment solutions yet. Marek > From: zphoto at montana.net > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 19:52:19 -0400 > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Casein structure > > Marek, > One more pigment bit the dust for a stock mix: red iron oxide, as Alberto predicted. However, it took another week or so longer than nickel azo yellow. So far all others are still usable since starting with casein testing end of Feb. > Chris > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Marek Matusz wrote: > > > > > > > > > Casein fanatics > > Found this nice picture of the alpha casein molecule. > > http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=134288 > > > > All those beautiful amino acids forming a peptide molecule. > > This casein chemistry is definitely going to be fun. > > Marek > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From viapiano at pacbell.net Tue May 3 18:06:19 2011 From: viapiano at pacbell.net (Paul Viapiano) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:06:19 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] casein two cents References: , , , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , , , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, , <730D4F27BD2640FD98F425ADCA28EF2D@TravlinHP>, , <20110429171343.20012.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it>, , Message-ID: I've been following this thread with all its ins and outs...and am wondering if anyone tried the Lukas Werth method which appeared in Post Factory in detail? His prints are pretty awesome, and just thinking it would be a great jumping off point. From zphoto at montana.net Tue May 3 19:30:20 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:30:20 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Casein structure In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , , , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, , <730D4F27BD2640FD98F425ADCA28EF2D@TravlinHP>, , <20110429171343.20012.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it>, , Message-ID: <032987EA-6CE5-4364-BBF9-08BB46ACDF29@montana.net> Marek, Just mixed in stock pigment solutions. Using at once, I am sure it is all fine, because the red iron oxide was fine for weeks. And it is a great color to use. Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On May 3, 2011, at 12:00 PM, Marek Matusz wrote: > > Chris, > Is the red iron oxide unsuitable because it does ot mix well, or somehow reacts with casein making it unsensitive to dichromate? I am using watercolor (Daniel SMith) tubes. SO far a few pigments that I tried seem to be OK for a mix and use at once method. I have not done stock pigment solutions yet. > Marek > >> From: zphoto at montana.net >> Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 19:52:19 -0400 >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Casein structure >> >> Marek, >> One more pigment bit the dust for a stock mix: red iron oxide, as Alberto predicted. However, it took another week or so longer than nickel azo yellow. So far all others are still usable since starting with casein testing end of Feb. >> Chris >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> >> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Marek Matusz wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Casein fanatics >>> Found this nice picture of the alpha casein molecule. >>> http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=134288 >>> >>> All those beautiful amino acids forming a peptide molecule. >>> This casein chemistry is definitely going to be fun. >>> Marek >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Tue May 3 19:37:27 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:37:27 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein two cents In-Reply-To: References: , , , , <95920042-D45F-4E61-A4A0-31D2BEE7DCB4@montana.net>, , , , <20110428102532.15777.qmail@webmaildh4.aruba.it>, , <730D4F27BD2640FD98F425ADCA28EF2D@TravlinHP>, , <20110429171343.20012.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it>, , Message-ID: <8AC4B08E-45D6-4C74-8B3B-B7C12886D972@montana.net> Paul, Yes. I talked about Lukas' info way back at the beginning of this discussion when I first was mixing my casein--I think I posted his formula in my post as a matter of fact. The only thing I don't do that he does is use his sizing method, because I am using PVA quite successfully. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On May 3, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote: > I've been following this thread with all its ins and outs...and am wondering if anyone tried the Lukas Werth method which appeared in Post Factory in detail? > > His prints are pretty awesome, and just thinking it would be a great jumping off point. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From gjh at shaw.ca Thu May 5 04:07:05 2011 From: gjh at shaw.ca (Gordon J. Holtslander) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 22:07:05 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] casein and tsp Message-ID: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca> I have some purified casein and am going to try casein printing again I have this: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/Product_Information_Sheet/c5890pis.Par.0001.File.tmp/c5890pis.pdf I am curious if anyone has used tri-sodium phosphate (TSP) as a casein solvent rather than ammonia? TSP is used in a number of casein paint formulas. Gord -- Gordon J. Holtslander gjh at shaw.ca From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Thu May 5 14:30:12 2011 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:30:12 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp In-Reply-To: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca> References: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Gord, Sounds reasonable. It is known from old literature that casein can be solubilized with a number of salts. WHat is actually at work is a high pH that partially hydrolyses the casein. To that effect hydroxide are effective, but also salts that in would make high pH solution. Trisodium phosphate would certainly fit Let us know what happens. I am quite happy with my ammonium carbonate recipe. Marek > Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 22:07:05 -0600 > From: gjh at shaw.ca > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Subject: [alt-photo] casein and tsp > > I have some purified casein and am going to try casein printing again > > I have this: > http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/Product_Information_Sheet/c5890pis.Par.0001.File.tmp/c5890pis.pdf > > I am curious if anyone has used tri-sodium phosphate (TSP) as a casein > solvent rather than ammonia? TSP is used in a number of casein paint > formulas. > > Gord > > -- > Gordon J. Holtslander > gjh at shaw.ca > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From gjh at shaw.ca Thu May 5 15:25:19 2011 From: gjh at shaw.ca (Gordon Holtslander) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 09:25:19 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp In-Reply-To: References: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Is this your ammonium carbonate formula? 2 parts Casein Powder16 parts water1 part Ammonium Carbonate (or clear liquid ammonia*)Dry Pigments paste water How are you sizing? ----- Original Message ----- From: Marek Matusz Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:30 am Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp To: alt photo > > Gord, > Sounds reasonable. It is known from old literature that casein > can be solubilized??? with a number of salts. > WHat is actually at work is a high pH that partially hydrolyses > the casein. To that effect hydroxide are effective, but also > salts that in? would make high pH solution. Trisodium > phosphate would certainly fit > Let us know what happens. I am quite happy with my ammonium > carbonate recipe. > Marek > > Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 22:07:05 -0600 > > From: gjh at shaw.ca > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > Subject: [alt-photo] casein and tsp > > > > I have some purified casein and am going to try casein > printing again > > > > I have this: > > > http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/Product_Information_Sheet/c5890pis.Par.0001.File.tmp/c5890pis.pdf> > > I am curious if anyone has used tri-sodium phosphate (TSP) as > a casein > > solvent rather than ammonia? TSP is used in a number of casein > paint > > formulas. > > > > Gord > > > > -- > > Gordon J. Holtslander > > gjh at shaw.ca > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca Thu May 5 20:11:21 2011 From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca (Peter Friedrichsen) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 16:11:21 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] casein on metals Message-ID: I heard mention of casein as being a candidate for coating on metal...I think it was Marek, so I thought I would pass on my experience. I have successfully coated, exposed and developed casein+dichromate on copper, aluminum, and even glass but there are challenges: First, the metal must be very clean. I clean the surface with steel wool and a dusting of laundry detergent and scrub for several minutes. Some other cleaners such as dish soap don't seem to work so well. You will know the metal is clean when the water sheets off of the metal after a few minutes of rinsing. It is important that it sheets off, as any beading up will mean that the casein will not adhere sufficiently during development. Coating an even film on metal is a bit trickier than paper and I find that of all things, a silicone basting brush works well. Watch our for any bit of dust as it really shows itself on metal. Cleaning foils may need some other type of approach because they are so thin. Even once you get the coating method perfected, you have a problem if you are hoping for tonality and that is that there won't be any. Lightly hardened casein (grey tones) prefers to stick to itself rather than the metal so it sloughs off and the result is a two tone image with no tones in between. I have heard that tonality can be accomplished with a carbon tissue transfer onto metal using the traditional carbon tissue but that does not involve casein of course. I won't say it isn't possible with casein but that I have not had any luck with it. There may be some type of undercoat that you could apply to help anchor the less exposed casein but I have not attempted it. An undercoat of powdered silica+hardened casein may do the trick. If anyone has anything to add re metals/glass whether it is casein or even gum, I am all ears. Peter Friedrichsen From ender100 at aol.com Fri May 6 04:45:38 2011 From: ender100 at aol.com (Mark Nelson) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 21:45:38 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein on metals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50CA839E-CD0B-40D1-928F-FB08EACD0C18@aol.com> Look at how the people who do photogravure clean copper if you are looking for a really good method. Mark Nelson www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy On May 5, 2011, at 1:11 PM, Peter Friedrichsen wrote: > I heard mention of casein as being a candidate for coating on metal...I think it was Marek, so I thought I would pass on my experience. > > I have successfully coated, exposed and developed casein+dichromate on copper, aluminum, and even glass but there are challenges: > > First, the metal must be very clean. I clean the surface with steel wool and a dusting of laundry detergent and scrub for several minutes. Some other cleaners such as dish soap don't seem to work so well. You will know the metal is clean when the water sheets off of the metal after a few minutes of rinsing. It is important that it sheets off, as any beading up will mean that the casein will not adhere sufficiently during development. Coating an even film on metal is a bit trickier than paper and I find that of all things, a silicone basting brush works well. Watch our for any bit of dust as it really shows itself on metal. Cleaning foils may need some other type of approach because they are so thin. > > Even once you get the coating method perfected, you have a problem if you are hoping for tonality and that is that there won't be any. Lightly hardened casein (grey tones) prefers to stick to itself rather than the metal so it sloughs off and the result is a two tone image with no tones in between. I have heard that tonality can be accomplished with a carbon tissue transfer onto metal using the traditional carbon tissue but that does not involve casein of course. I won't say it isn't possible with casein but that I have not had any luck with it. There may be some type of undercoat that you could apply to help anchor the less exposed casein but I have not attempted it. An undercoat of powdered silica+hardened casein may do the trick. > > If anyone has anything to add re metals/glass whether it is casein or even gum, I am all ears. > > Peter Friedrichsen > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From marekmatusz at hotmail.com Fri May 6 15:17:30 2011 From: marekmatusz at hotmail.com (Marek Matusz) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 15:17:30 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp In-Reply-To: References: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca>, , Message-ID: Gord, Slightly different: 12 g casein, 3g ammonium carbonate, 100g water. DIssolve ammonium carbonate and add casein, mixing with a spoon. My bactericide was 2g of Consan 20 solution (the solution was mixed from concentrate 1:10). It is likely too much, but it works. I waited a day before using. Now a few weeks later the casein solution looks and feels the same. I have been using some FA papers sized with gelating/hardener, my stock gum papers. Chris is using PVA size as far as I can recall from the emails and she noticed that a heavier layer of sieze is needed. I also noticed that on heavier siezed papers the highlights can be much cleaner. On the other hand I just made a print on an unsized paper that looks quite nice. Marek > From: gjh at shaw.ca > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 09:25:19 -0600 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp > > Is this your ammonium carbonate formula? > > 2 parts Casein Powder16 parts water1 part Ammonium Carbonate > (or clear liquid ammonia*)Dry Pigments paste water > How are you sizing? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marek Matusz > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011 8:30 am > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp > To: alt photo > > > > > Gord, > > Sounds reasonable. It is known from old literature that casein > > can be solubilized with a number of salts. > > WHat is actually at work is a high pH that partially hydrolyses > > the casein. To that effect hydroxide are effective, but also > > salts that in would make high pH solution. Trisodium > > phosphate would certainly fit > > Let us know what happens. I am quite happy with my ammonium > > carbonate recipe. > > Marek > > > Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 22:07:05 -0600 > > > From: gjh at shaw.ca > > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > > Subject: [alt-photo] casein and tsp > > > > > > I have some purified casein and am going to try casein > > printing again > > > > > > I have this: > > > > > http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/docs/Sigma/Product_Information_Sheet/c5890pis.Par.0001.File.tmp/c5890pis.pdf> > > > I am curious if anyone has used tri-sodium phosphate (TSP) as > > a casein > > > solvent rather than ammonia? TSP is used in a number of casein > > paint > > > formulas. > > > > > > Gord > > > > > > -- > > > Gordon J. Holtslander > > > gjh at shaw.ca > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From zphoto at montana.net Sun May 8 23:13:45 2011 From: zphoto at montana.net (Christina Anderson) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 17:13:45 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein and tsp In-Reply-To: References: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca>, , Message-ID: Hi Marek, and Gord, I am finally done with the semester and it couldn't have come too soon. I started doing casein with straight PVA--too slick. Then 1+1, still too slick and settled on 1+2. It wasn't that the casein flaked off, but that it just felt too acrylic-y for my tastes. I have not had staining yet, just in the beginning dealt with gross overexposure which can appear the same but disappears when exposure is corrected. It is SO fast. Highlights clear quickly and immediately. Next batch of prints I will do with no borders (e.g. a black border around the image digitally to print no brush marks) and that will test my sizing very nicely. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On May 6, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Marek Matusz wrote: > Gord, > Slightly different: > 12 g casein, 3g ammonium carbonate, 100g water. DIssolve ammonium carbonate and add casein, mixing with a spoon. My bactericide was 2g of Consan 20 solution (the solution was mixed from concentrate 1:10). It is likely too much, but it works. I waited a day before using. Now a few weeks later the casein solution looks and feels the same. I have been using some FA papers sized with gelating/hardener, my stock gum papers. Chris is using PVA size as far as I can recall from the emails and she noticed that a heavier layer of sieze is needed. I also noticed that on heavier siezed papers the highlights can be much cleaner. On the other hand I just made a print on an unsized paper that looks quite nice. > > Marek From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Tue May 10 08:30:46 2011 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:30:46 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? In-Reply-To: <6BF83A4D-AEAC-4DD4-8E0C-FCA63C5E4415@aol.com> References: <066D3DB7-90F8-4712-9118-CC4C5C748A92@sti.net> <763E0DA4F5D7428FB3D6F1627B88ECBD@Eric64> <6BF83A4D-AEAC-4DD4-8E0C-FCA63C5E4415@aol.com> Message-ID: <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031CFD@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> Dear All, I am still working completely analogue, and I have been using ARISTA APH(S) Lith film (8x10 format) regularly. Both as a in-camera 8*10 film as well as to make enlarged alt negatives (reversal processed a la Liam Lawles) and masks. But I am reaching the bottom of my last box, and I found out that Freestyle is not carrying it anymore. So cheap as I am I was wondering if there are perhaps kind people around who still have this film, but due to converting to (all) digital do not use it anymore. I would be grateful to take it over and use it. I can be reached at cor at lumc.nl Thanks for your time, Best, Cor From earlj at comcast.net Tue May 10 08:42:10 2011 From: earlj at comcast.net (Earl and Patty Johnson) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:42:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? In-Reply-To: <994945346.58051.1305016877572.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <867309934.58054.1305016930133.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Cor: 100 sheets of Ultrafine ortho litho in 8x10 is $54.95. I have used it, and it is good film. Earl Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: "C Breukel" To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 3:30:46 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? Dear All, I am still working completely analogue, and I have been using ARISTA APH(S) Lith film (8x10 format) regularly. Both as a in-camera 8*10 film as well as to make enlarged alt negatives (reversal processed a la Liam Lawles) and masks. But I am reaching the bottom of my last box, and I found out that Freestyle is not carrying it anymore. So cheap as I am I was wondering if there are perhaps kind people around who still have this film, but due to converting to (all) digital do not use it anymore. I would be grateful to take it over and use it. I can be reached at cor at lumc.nl Thanks for your time, Best, Cor _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Tue May 10 08:52:03 2011 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:52:03 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? In-Reply-To: <867309934.58054.1305016930133.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <994945346.58051.1305016877572.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <867309934.58054.1305016930133.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031D3D@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> He Earl, Thanks for the suggestion, good to have an alternative (now that you mention it I recall that supplier) Best, Cor > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt- > photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Earl and > Patty Johnson > Sent: dinsdag 10 mei 2011 10:42 > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? > > Cor: > > 100 sheets of Ultrafine ortho litho in 8x10 is $54.95. I have used it, and > it is good film. > > Earl Johnson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Breukel" > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 3:30:46 AM > Subject: [alt-photo] Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? > > Dear All, > > I am still working completely analogue, and I have been using ARISTA > APH(S) Lith film (8x10 format) regularly. Both as a in-camera 8*10 film as > well as to make enlarged alt negatives (reversal processed a la Liam > Lawles) and masks. > > But I am reaching the bottom of my last box, and I found out that > Freestyle is not carrying it anymore. So cheap as I am I was wondering if > there are perhaps kind people around who still have this film, but due to > converting to (all) digital do not use it anymore. I would be grateful to > take it over and use it. > > I can be reached at cor at lumc.nl > > Thanks for your time, > > Best, > > Cor > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From gjh at shaw.ca Tue May 10 14:26:53 2011 From: gjh at shaw.ca (Gordon Holtslander) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 08:26:53 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? In-Reply-To: <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031D3D@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> References: <994945346.58051.1305016877572.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <867309934.58054.1305016930133.JavaMail.root@sz0054a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031D3D@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: I use ultrafine ortho litho as well.? Other alternatives are Kodak CGP Agfa Alliance and Koru Cam film. I would be really interested if someone? could try Koru film http://www.koru-graphics.com/comparisons.html It may be more sensitive than the above films. The only North America supplier http://www.artigraf.net/? is based in Mexico and they don't seem to be able to ship to Canada. Gord ----- Original Message ----- From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:52 am Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > He Earl, > > Thanks for the suggestion, good to have an alternative (now that > you mention it I recall that supplier) > > Best, > > Cor > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt- > > photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf > Of Earl and > > Patty Johnson > > Sent: dinsdag 10 mei 2011 10:42 > > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? > > > > Cor: > > > > 100 sheets of Ultrafine ortho litho in 8x10 is $54.95. I have > used it, and > > it is good film. > > > > Earl Johnson > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "C Breukel" > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 3:30:46 AM > > Subject: [alt-photo] Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? > > > > Dear All, > > > > I am still working completely analogue, and I have been using ARISTA > > APH(S) Lith film (8x10 format) regularly. Both as a in-camera > 8*10 film as > > well as to make enlarged alt negatives (reversal processed a > la Liam > > Lawles) and masks. > > > > But I am reaching the bottom of my last box, and I found out that > > Freestyle is not carrying it anymore. So cheap as I am I was > wondering if > > there are perhaps kind people around who still have this film, > but due to > > converting to (all) digital do not use it anymore. I would be > grateful to > > take it over and use it. > > > > I can be reached at cor at lumc.nl > > > > Thanks for your time, > > > > Best, > > > > Cor > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From info at permadocument.be Wed May 11 07:41:33 2011 From: info at permadocument.be (permadocument) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 09:41:33 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? In-Reply-To: <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031CFD@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> References: <066D3DB7-90F8-4712-9118-CC4C5C748A92@sti.net> <763E0DA4F5D7428FB3D6F1627B88ECBD@Eric64> <6BF83A4D-AEAC-4DD4-8E0C-FCA63C5E4415@aol.com> <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031CFD@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> Message-ID: <003001cc0fae$d9ad6f50$8d084df0$@be> Hello Cor, Did you know that Bergger again carries: FILM BPFO-10 A continuous-tone, ortho film for exposure by contact or projection. It has a wide latitude of exposure and development with medium to high contrast gradation according developer. It comes on a polyester support of 100? with an anti-halation back coating. It exists in 24x30cm and 30x40cm Warm greetings, Roger Roger Kockaerts cell phone: 32 473 58 49 31 Atelier pH7 7 rue des Balkans B-1180 Brussels www.permadocument.be -----Message d'origine----- De : alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de C.Breukel at lumc.nl Envoy? : mardi 10 mai 2011 10:31 ? : alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Objet : [alt-photo] Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? Dear All, I am still working completely analogue, and I have been using ARISTA APH(S) Lith film (8x10 format) regularly. Both as a in-camera 8*10 film as well as to make enlarged alt negatives (reversal processed a la Liam Lawles) and masks. But I am reaching the bottom of my last box, and I found out that Freestyle is not carrying it anymore. So cheap as I am I was wondering if there are perhaps kind people around who still have this film, but due to converting to (all) digital do not use it anymore. I would be grateful to take it over and use it. I can be reached at cor at lumc.nl Thanks for your time, Best, Cor _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From C.Breukel at lumc.nl Wed May 11 07:48:58 2011 From: C.Breukel at lumc.nl (C.Breukel at lumc.nl) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 07:48:58 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? In-Reply-To: <003001cc0fae$d9ad6f50$8d084df0$@be> References: <066D3DB7-90F8-4712-9118-CC4C5C748A92@sti.net> <763E0DA4F5D7428FB3D6F1627B88ECBD@Eric64> <6BF83A4D-AEAC-4DD4-8E0C-FCA63C5E4415@aol.com> <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7031CFD@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> <003001cc0fae$d9ad6f50$8d084df0$@be> Message-ID: <19BFDE1ACA5CA545BA009EE8205ED4A7032E55@MAIL-MB2.lumcnet.prod.intern> Bonjour Roger, Thanks, I did not know that, it could be an alternative, although I would prefer 8*10 inch (20*25 cm), and I am kinda dialed in on Arista APH, but if it is no more I have to switch.. Best, Cor > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt- > photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of > permadocument > Sent: woensdag 11 mei 2011 9:42 > To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list' > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? > > Hello Cor, > > Did you know that Bergger again carries: > > FILM BPFO-10 > A continuous-tone, ortho film for exposure by contact or projection. > It has a wide latitude of exposure and development with medium to high > contrast gradation according developer. > It comes on a polyester support of 100? with an anti-halation back > coating. > > It exists in 24x30cm and 30x40cm > > Warm greetings, > Roger > > Roger Kockaerts > cell phone: 32 473 58 49 31 > Atelier pH7 > 7 rue des Balkans > B-1180 Brussels > www.permadocument.be > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt- > photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] De la part de > C.Breukel at lumc.nl > Envoy? : mardi 10 mai 2011 10:31 > ? : alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Objet : [alt-photo] Left over Arista APH(S) Lith film ? > > Dear All, > > I am still working completely analogue, and I have been using ARISTA > APH(S) Lith film (8x10 format) regularly. Both as a in-camera 8*10 film as > well as to make enlarged alt negatives (reversal processed a la Liam > Lawles) and masks. > > But I am reaching the bottom of my last box, and I found out that > Freestyle is not carrying it anymore. So cheap as I am I was wondering if > there are perhaps kind people around who still have this film, but due to > converting to (all) digital do not use it anymore. I would be grateful to > take it over and use it. > > I can be reached at cor at lumc.nl > > Thanks for your time, > > Best, > > Cor > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From richsul at earthlink.net Thu May 19 17:49:56 2011 From: richsul at earthlink.net (Richard Sullivan) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:49:56 -0600 Subject: [alt-photo] Arabin Gum Process -- Not Arabic. In-Reply-To: References: <4DC22269.1000206@shaw.ca>, , Message-ID: <00f901cc164d$2b17e1a0$8147a4e0$@net> ARABIN GUM BICHROMATE PROCESS A gum bichromate printing process worked out by Nelson K Cherril and published in June 1909 To prepare the arab1n a quantity of best Soudan gum arabic is sifted through a 40 mesh sieve Place in a quart earthenware jar 1 50 ccs of water 7 J ccs of pure hydrochloric acid and then sift into the mixture stirring the while 100 g of the powdered gum Keep the whole at about 1200 F about 49 C and stir frequently until solution is complete Cool and add 600 ccs of the best methylated alcohol free from petroleum and stir for half an hour or so or until the arabin is thrown down as a white precipitate and has lost all stickiness or gum miness Filter through two thicknesses of cheese cloth gather the arabin in the cloth into a ball and squeeze it well place it in a small jar cover with new spirit stirring it and breaking it up well and leave for several hours until the spirit has absorbed all the water Squeeze again in cheese cloth then put the arabin in a towel and squeeze it in a press with as heavy pressure as possible Break up the cake formed to allow the remaining alcohol to evaporate with gentle heat then break the remaining lumps in a mortar and dry until all is a dry gritty powder The formula in the English system would be roughly as follows: Water 5J oz Hydrochloric acid 127 mins Powdered gum 1540 grs Methylated alcohol 21 oz To prepare synthetic gum take 20 g of Arabin, 20 g of heavy magnesium carbonate from 40 ccs to 75 ccs of water according the thickness of the solution preferred. This formula in English is Arabin 308 grs Magnesium carbonate 308 Water to 1 1/2 ox to 2 1.2 oz mixed stir occasionally until the froth then filter through muslin To prepare the pigment lampblack is used; Wash it with repeated doses of mixed ether and acetone until all fatty gummy matters are removed or preferably burn small pieces of camphor slowly under a piece of porcelain -- say bottom of a porcelain developing dish. Scrape off the soot with a palette knife into a test-tube and wash with mixed ether and acetone until these solvents come away with slight discoloration. Pour off as much possible without losing the black and dry stirring the test tube in hot water keeping water from the pigment. When dry, the tube is inverted and the black will fall out freely. special lampblack known as No 4 has been for this particular process. To mix gum and pigment for coating upon paper, it is necessary to experiment with the particular paper to be used taking a normal temperature say 95 Deg F for the developing water and a normal time say forty five minutes for development. The mixture must be such as will just soak clean from the paper in the development time. With too little gum, the pigment soaks into the paper, with too much it washes away before development is complete. In practice it is best to make up an under-gummed and an over-gummed ink and experiment with these will show the proportions for any paper. For instance Cherril recommends the making of one ink containing gum in the proportion of 20 arabin to 75 water and the other in the proportion of 20 to 45 of water. If both these are pigmented in the same proportion as to quantity that is proportion quantity that is to say about 400 to 500 mm of lampblack to each 10 ccs the one will be found to give too much penetration to Joynson's or Rive's paper and the other too little a mixture of the two will be found to give a good result The mixture is sensitised just before use by an addition of an equal volume of bichromate solution made by adding 15 gm (230 grs) of ammonium bichromate to 100 ccs (3 1/2) oz of water dissolve by heat and neutralise by stirring in a little chalk decanting when effervescence ceases and the solution settles. The paper to be used is brushed over thinly with the freshly mixed gum and bichromate the brush marks being obliterated by crossing and recrossing the strokes. After drying the paper is ready to be exposed. Exposure should be by actinometer after the manner of carbon and the paper is much more sensitive than the average gum bichromate paper prepared by other processes. If the development of a print from an ordinary negative is complete in about forty five minutes in water at a temperature of 95 Deg F (35 Deg C.) the result will be perfect. Development may be performed in a vertical tank or by floating face downwards on the water controlling in the usual manner. From sweber at mail.barry.edu Fri May 20 19:36:34 2011 From: sweber at mail.barry.edu (Weber, Scott B) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 19:36:34 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] POP Message-ID: Anyone ever tried this POP paper?? Sold by Phoart 208 an Ebay store. ALT # 102 APP Collodio ? Chloride POP Scott From donsbryant at gmail.com Fri May 20 20:56:05 2011 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:56:05 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: POP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Ebay link? -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Weber, Scott B Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:37 PM To: (alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org) Subject: [alt-photo] POP Anyone ever tried this POP paper?? Sold by Phoart 208 an Ebay store. ALT # 102 APP Collodio - Chloride POP Scott _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From rwybeaker at hotmail.com Fri May 20 20:58:00 2011 From: rwybeaker at hotmail.com (Robert Young) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:58:00 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: POP In-Reply-To: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> References: , <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=ALT+%23+102+APP+Collodio+-+Chloride+POP&_sacat=See-All-Categories Rob > From: donsbryant at gmail.com > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:56:05 -0400 > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: POP > > Ebay link? > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of > Weber, Scott B > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:37 PM > To: (alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org) > Subject: [alt-photo] POP > > Anyone ever tried this POP paper?? > Sold by Phoart 208 an Ebay store. > > > ALT # 102 APP Collodio - Chloride POP > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From jacqueskv at gmail.com Sat May 21 00:05:55 2011 From: jacqueskv at gmail.com (Jacques Kevers) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 02:05:55 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: POP In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: Same guy than this? http://www.altphotoproducts.com/ Jacques 2011/5/20 Robert Young > > > http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=ALT+%23+102+APP+Collodio+-+Chloride+POP&_sacat=See-All-Categories > > Rob > > > > > From: donsbryant at gmail.com > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > > Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 16:56:05 -0400 > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: POP > > > > Ebay link? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org > > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf > Of > > Weber, Scott B > > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 3:37 PM > > To: (alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org) > > Subject: [alt-photo] POP > > > > Anyone ever tried this POP paper?? > > Sold by Phoart 208 an Ebay store. > > > > > > ALT # 102 APP Collodio - Chloride POP > > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca Sun May 22 02:07:04 2011 From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca (Peter Friedrichsen) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:07:04 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: I am imaging onto some lumpy surfaces and want to retain the image sharpness when exposed onto it. The sun is great for this but it is not reliable here especially in the winter months. I even went so far as calculating the shadow sharpness of the sun based on the exposed surfaces distance from the negative, and that told me that I can image up to 900 dpi even if the negative is 1/8 inch away. The only thing I came up with so far is a naked xenon arc which is probably risky to use since I know those bulbs can sometimes explode violently without warning, and can also blow a big hole in the bank account. Any ideas? Peter Friedrichsen From tom at sobota.net Sun May 22 06:26:47 2011 From: tom at sobota.net (Tomas Sobota) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:26:47 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: I have used a tanning lamp, Osram Vitalux, which is a 300W not too expensive UV source. The catch is that it will cover only A3 size or thereabouts unless you don't mind a long exposure time. It is safe to use, but it is not a point source, since the interior of the lamp is a specular reflector. But it might do for your needs. Tom On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Peter Friedrichsen < pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca> wrote: > > I am imaging onto some lumpy surfaces and want to retain the image > sharpness when exposed onto it. The sun is great for this but it is not > reliable here especially in the winter months. I even went so far as > calculating the shadow sharpness of the sun based on the exposed surfaces > distance from the negative, and that told me that I can image up to 900 dpi > even if the negative is 1/8 inch away. The only thing I came up with so far > is a naked xenon arc which is probably risky to use since I know those bulbs > can sometimes explode violently without warning, and can also blow a big > hole in the bank account. Any ideas? > > > Peter Friedrichsen > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From mineurdecharbon at skynet.be Sun May 22 06:38:23 2011 From: mineurdecharbon at skynet.be (Philippe Berger) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:38:23 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: I use also a Osram UltraVitalux for my Carbon Transfer. It is perfect, no problem Philippe Philippe Berger mineurdecharbon at skynet.be http://www.philippeberger.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Sobota" To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 8:26 AM Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source >I have used a tanning lamp, Osram Vitalux, which is a 300W not too >expensive > UV source. The catch is that it will cover only A3 size or thereabouts > unless you don't mind a long exposure time. It is safe to use, but it is > not > a point source, since the interior of the lamp is a specular reflector. > But > it might do for your needs. > > Tom > > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 4:07 AM, Peter Friedrichsen < > pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca> wrote: > >> >> I am imaging onto some lumpy surfaces and want to retain the image >> sharpness when exposed onto it. The sun is great for this but it is not >> reliable here especially in the winter months. I even went so far as >> calculating the shadow sharpness of the sun based on the exposed surfaces >> distance from the negative, and that told me that I can image up to 900 >> dpi >> even if the negative is 1/8 inch away. The only thing I came up with so >> far >> is a naked xenon arc which is probably risky to use since I know those >> bulbs >> can sometimes explode violently without warning, and can also blow a big >> hole in the bank account. Any ideas? >> >> >> Peter Friedrichsen >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 6141 (20110521) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From botanic88 at hotmail.co.uk Sun May 22 08:18:43 2011 From: botanic88 at hotmail.co.uk (Mike and Jan Andrews) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:18:43 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: , <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers>, , , Message-ID: I once experimented with an arc welding kit to expose a print! You probably won't want to take this idea too seriously. It can be hazardous - it gave me a significant sunburn in about 10 minutes! However it is pretty near to being a spot source and it has significant amounts of UV. Mike Andrews > Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 22:07:04 -0400 > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org > From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca > Subject: [alt-photo] UV Point Light Source > > > I am imaging onto some lumpy surfaces and want to retain the image > sharpness when exposed onto it. The sun is great for this but it is > not reliable here especially in the winter months. I even went so far > as calculating the shadow sharpness of the sun based on the exposed > surfaces distance from the negative, and that told me that I can > image up to 900 dpi even if the negative is 1/8 inch away. The only > thing I came up with so far is a naked xenon arc which is probably > risky to use since I know those bulbs can sometimes explode violently > without warning, and can also blow a big hole in the bank account. Any ideas? > > > Peter Friedrichsen > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From lightspeed-images at comcast.net Sun May 22 15:56:22 2011 From: lightspeed-images at comcast.net (Harry B Houchins) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 08:56:22 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: LED Exposure Lights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD93226.9040505@comcast.net> In a previous post I asked if anyone had experience with UV LEDs. I also reported having a conversation with an engineer who develops LED lighting systems for a local manufacturer (no, they are not all in China...). To continue the saga, I took my homemade fluorescent exposure system - based on instructions provided in Scopik & Nadeau - to their labs and we measured the light intensity & wavelength range. I received the following in an email from the engineer regarding those tests... /"I worked some numbers up for a compatible LED based UV light box. Unfortunately, the cost is not looking very good. We would need at least 135 LEDs to roughly match the power output and coverage of your existing box. Each UV LED goes for $11.87. /($1,600 USD)/As you know, LEDs are still rather expensive and UV LEDs are even more so. I did want to send you the power spectrum that we took of your light for your own reference. I also wanted to let you know that I am learning a new software package for designing luminares and that I would like to use the software to model a LED based UV box as a learning exercise since it is a rather straight forward problem. Who knows, maybe the software will lead me to consider a different and more feasible approach to the light box." /I will be happy to email a copy of the power spectrum to any requesting same. However, the spectrum shows the greatest intensity from 350 nm to 365 nm and another steep , short spike at 405 nm. So, not so feasible with the LED costs as they are now. But, research continues. Regards, Harry Bonham Houchins Eugene, Oregon www.lightspeed-images.com lightspeed-images at comcast.net From photographeur at nerdshack.com Sun May 22 19:57:02 2011 From: photographeur at nerdshack.com (etienne garbaux) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 15:57:02 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: <20110522195705.8C9BA11BE99@karen.lavabit.com> Peter wrote: >I am imaging onto some lumpy surfaces and want to retain the image >sharpness when exposed onto it. The sun is great for this but it is >not reliable here especially in the winter months. I even went so >far as calculating the shadow sharpness of the sun based on the >exposed surfaces distance from the negative, and that told me that I >can image up to 900 dpi even if the negative is 1/8 inch away. The >only thing I came up with so far is a naked xenon arc which is >probably risky to use since I know those bulbs can sometimes explode >violently without warning, and can also blow a big hole in the bank >account. Any ideas? Carbon arc, xenon arc, or ultra-high-pressure mercury arc appear to be your choices for artificial point-ish UV sources. Of course, as you stated, the lamp would need to be used without a reflector to preserve the small source size. They all have operating arcs on the order of 1/2 inch, so they would need to be 60 inches or more from the negative to match the angular size of the sun. Mercury arc bulbs used for home tanning lamps are similar, though usually with an arc an inch or more long -- but they do not have the power to expose most alt processes from such a distance. Plate burners greatly reduce the risk from bulb explosion, although they limit the lamp distance to around 30", so the effective angular size is about double that of the sun. I used to use an old carbon-arc plate burner with the reflector assembly removed for exposing Pt and carbon materials. It provided great resolution, but the fumes, noise, and residue finally persuaded me to switch to a xenon arc plate burner, which I again stripped of its reflector. Both machines were obtained free from printing houses -- the carbon arc when they switched to xenon, and the xenon when they switched to laser typesetting. Note that you can clearly see the difference between a carbon print exposed emulsion-to-emulsion and one exposed through the base of the negative (only .005-.010" gap), so I would expect a 1/8" gap to show a substantial reduction in sharpness. IME, this is true of prints made using the sun as the light source, as well. Best regards, etienne From pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca Mon May 23 02:04:49 2011 From: pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca (Peter Friedrichsen) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:04:49 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: <20110522195705.8C9BA11BE99@karen.lavabit.com> References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110522195705.8C9BA11BE99@karen.lavabit.com> Message-ID: All of these posts to my question have been very informative, and I am taking it all on and pondering my options but now I want to respond to etienne's post, with the results from a fairly basic experiment: Etienne, I tested your "IME" using a visual check with an LED light source. I used a Philips 2w white dragon LED and projected the light about 10 feet. From this distance, I held up my negative in front of a translucent screen and viewed it from the back with a magnifier. I then placed a 1/8 inch glass plate under part of the negative, with the other half pressed against the screen and I noticed that the image at 1/8 inch separation was softer; BTW this negative has a resolution of about 600 dpi. The angle width of the light source is certainly much less than the sun and I am very roughly estimating that it may be 1/5 of the sun's 0.5 degree angle or 0.1 degrees at the distance mentioned. Moving further away (about 30 feet) there was no improvement in resolution. Finally, I proceeded to use a thin glass slide of 1/16 inch thickness and at this separation distance, the sharpness was preserved The limiting factor seems to be light diffraction, which keeps a lid on resolution no matter how small the light source. Peter Friedrichsen At 03:57 PM 05/22/2011, you wrote: >Peter wrote: > >>I am imaging onto some lumpy surfaces and want to retain the image >>sharpness when exposed onto it. The sun is great for this but it is >>not reliable here especially in the winter months. I even went so >>far as calculating the shadow sharpness of the sun based on the >>exposed surfaces distance from the negative, and that told me that >>I can image up to 900 dpi even if the negative is 1/8 inch away. >>The only thing I came up with so far is a naked xenon arc which is >>probably risky to use since I know those bulbs can sometimes >>explode violently without warning, and can also blow a big hole in >>the bank account. Any ideas? > >Carbon arc, xenon arc, or ultra-high-pressure mercury arc appear to >be your choices for artificial point-ish UV sources. Of course, as >you stated, the lamp would need to be used without a reflector to >preserve the small source size. They all have operating arcs on the >order of 1/2 inch, so they would need to be 60 inches or more from >the negative to match the angular size of the sun. Mercury arc >bulbs used for home tanning lamps are similar, though usually with >an arc an inch or more long -- but they do not have the power to >expose most alt processes from such a distance. > >Plate burners greatly reduce the risk from bulb explosion, although >they limit the lamp distance to around 30", so the effective angular >size is about double that of the sun. I used to use an old >carbon-arc plate burner with the reflector assembly removed for >exposing Pt and carbon materials. It provided great resolution, but >the fumes, noise, and residue finally persuaded me to switch to a >xenon arc plate burner, which I again stripped of its >reflector. Both machines were obtained free from printing houses -- >the carbon arc when they switched to xenon, and the xenon when they >switched to laser typesetting. > >Note that you can clearly see the difference between a carbon print >exposed emulsion-to-emulsion and one exposed through the base of the >negative (only .005-.010" gap), so I would expect a 1/8" gap to show >a substantial reduction in sharpness. IME, this is true of prints >made using the sun as the light source, as well. > >Best regards, > >etienne > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From sitgesn1 at aim.com Mon May 23 05:03:57 2011 From: sitgesn1 at aim.com (sitgesn1 at aim.com) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 01:03:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [alt-photo] Re: LED Exposure Lights In-Reply-To: <4DD93226.9040505@comcast.net> References: <4DD93226.9040505@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CDE71DF4CE47E3-1374-8DEFE@webmail-m066.sysops.aol.com> Harry, Some time ago I used 360 nm UV leds and I bought 250 pcs for my application. I remember its price was $2-3 and I believe I have a remaining lot of more than 200 pcs. but I don't know how much power and radiation pattern you really need. If interested I could study if my UV leds can fit for your application. Can you tell me your UV led type model to try to compare? Regards -Francesc -----Original Message----- From: Harry B Houchins To: alt-photo-process-list Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 5:56 pm Subject: [alt-photo] Re: LED Exposure Lights In a previous post I asked if anyone had experience with UV LEDs. I also reported having a conversation with an engineer who develops LED lighting systems for a local manufacturer (no, they are not all in China...). To continue the saga, I took my homemade fluorescent exposure system - based on instructions provided in Scopik & Nadeau - to their labs and we measured the light intensity & wavelength range. I received the following in an email from the engineer regarding those tests... /"I worked some numbers up for a compatible LED based UV light box. Unfortunately, the cost is not looking very good. We would need at least 135 LEDs to roughly match the power output and coverage of your existing box. Each UV LED goes for $11.87. /($1,600 USD)/As you know, LEDs are still rather expensive and UV LEDs are even more so. I did want to send you the power spectrum that we took of your light for your own reference. I also wanted to let you know that I am learning a new software package for designing luminares and that I would like to use the software to model a LED based UV box as a learning exercise since it is a rather straight forward problem. Who knows, maybe the software will lead me to consider a different and more feasible approach to the light box." /I will be happy to email a copy of the power spectrum to any requesting same. However, the spectrum shows the greatest intensity from 350 nm to 365 nm and another steep , short spike at 405 nm. So, not so feasible with the LED costs as they are now. But, research continues. Regards, Harry Bonham Houchins Eugene, Oregon www.lightspeed-images.com lightspeed-images at comcast.net _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From alt.list at albertonovo.it Mon May 23 06:24:14 2011 From: alt.list at albertonovo.it (Alberto Novo) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:24:14 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> Message-ID: <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Philippe Berger wrote: > I use also a Osram UltraVitalux for my Carbon Transfer. It is perfect, no > problem Isn't it too hot, and the light increasing for the first minute or so after the switching on? Alberto www.grupponamias.com www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group From tom at sobota.net Mon May 23 08:10:34 2011 From: tom at sobota.net (Tomas Sobota) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:10:34 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Message-ID: Alberto, After switching the lamp on, you have to wait a couple of minutes before using it. After this time (more or less) you see the light change color from the usual yellow to a greenish hue. That is the visual signal that the lamp has started emitting UV. This change is quite fast and you notice it easily. The lamp gets hot, but not extremely since a great part of the 300W dissipate as non-caloric UV. More than UV tubes, to be sure. But with a separation of 50cm or so from the print, the heat does not reach it noticeably. Not even in summer, from my experience. When you finish the exposure, you have to wait until the lamp cools down before turning it on again. Tom On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Alberto Novo wrote: > Philippe Berger wrote: > >> I use also a Osram UltraVitalux for my Carbon Transfer. It is perfect, no >> problem >> > > Isn't it too hot, and the light increasing for the first minute or so after > the switching on? > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr Mon May 23 15:42:34 2011 From: dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr (ding dangdong) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:42:34 +0100 (BST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> Message-ID: <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> I have been using this setup for a little more than four years now. My print sizes start from 28x40cm up to whole sheets of Fabriano and i have always suffered from light falloff especially observable with cyanotype during exposure. Quite a pain because im not at all good at techy calculations and stuff so had to resort to a lot of trial and error in solving this little annoyance. Right now, i have suspended two bulbs with 55cm distance from frame and had it enclosed in a DIY folding box of gaffered sheets of insulating material (foamcore with aluminum foil on one side much like those folding sunscreens for your dashboard). i also have my frame sit on a 'carousel' or sort of a lazy Susan, a box with wheels that allows me to rotate the frame under the lights to balance the exposure. Kind of dodging and burning from old darkroom days. A messy lot of 'systeme D' like they call it here in France that leaves a lot of room for improvement but so far its working. My base times for cyanotypes are in the 30mins and gums at 5 mins. Anybody out there with better suggestion than my rotating frame? I apologize for mistakes in my english, not my native tongue. So is French even if i live here in Paris. Ding ________________________________ De : Tomas Sobota ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list Envoy? le : Lun 23 mai 2011, 10h 10min 34s Objet : [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source Alberto, After switching the lamp on, you have to wait a couple of minutes before using it. After this time (more or less) you see the light change color from the usual yellow to a greenish hue. That is the visual signal that the lamp has started emitting UV. This change is quite fast and you notice it easily. The lamp gets hot, but not extremely since a great part of the 300W dissipate as non-caloric UV. More than UV tubes, to be sure. But with a separation of 50cm or so from the print, the heat does not reach it noticeably. Not even in summer, from my experience. When you finish the exposure, you have to wait until the lamp cools down before turning it on again. Tom On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Alberto Novo wrote: > Philippe Berger wrote: > >> I use also a Osram UltraVitalux for my Carbon Transfer. It is perfect, no >> problem >> > > Isn't it too hot, and the light increasing for the first minute or so after > the switching on? > Alberto > www.grupponamias.com > www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From tom at sobota.net Mon May 23 16:25:51 2011 From: tom at sobota.net (Tomas Sobota) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 18:25:51 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ding, your system is worth a trip to Paris and having a look :-) However for whole sheets a bank of UV tubes makes probably more sense. Tom On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 5:42 PM, ding dangdong wrote: > I have been using this setup for a little more than four years now. My > print > sizes start from 28x40cm up to whole sheets of Fabriano and i have always > suffered from light falloff especially observable with cyanotype during > exposure. Quite a pain because im not at all good at techy calculations and > stuff so had to resort to a lot of trial and error in solving this little > annoyance. Right now, i have suspended two bulbs with 55cm distance from > frame > and had it enclosed in a DIY folding box of gaffered sheets of insulating > material (foamcore with aluminum foil on one side much like those folding > sunscreens for your dashboard). i also have my frame sit on a 'carousel' or > sort > of a lazy Susan, a box with wheels that allows me to rotate the frame under > the > lights to balance the exposure. Kind of dodging and burning from old > darkroom > days. A messy lot of 'systeme D' like they call it here in France that > leaves a > lot of room for improvement but so far its working. My base times for > cyanotypes > are in the 30mins and gums at 5 mins. > Anybody out there with better suggestion than my rotating frame? > > I apologize for mistakes in my english, not my native tongue. So is French > even > if i live here in Paris. > Ding > > > > > ________________________________ > De : Tomas Sobota > ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list > > Envoy? le : Lun 23 mai 2011, 10h 10min 34s > Objet : [alt-photo] Re: UV Point Light Source > > Alberto, > > After switching the lamp on, you have to wait a couple of minutes before > using it. After this time (more or less) you see the light change color > from > the usual yellow to a greenish hue. That is the visual signal that the lamp > has started emitting UV. This change is quite fast and you notice it > easily. > > The lamp gets hot, but not extremely since a great part of the 300W > dissipate as non-caloric UV. More than UV tubes, to be sure. But with a > separation of 50cm or so from the print, the heat does not reach it > noticeably. Not even in summer, from my experience. > > When you finish the exposure, you have to wait until the lamp cools down > before turning it on again. > > Tom > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Alberto Novo >wrote: > > > Philippe Berger wrote: > > > >> I use also a Osram UltraVitalux for my Carbon Transfer. It is perfect, > no > >> problem > >> > > > > Isn't it too hot, and the light increasing for the first minute or so > after > > the switching on? > > Alberto > > www.grupponamias.com > > www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr Mon May 23 18:59:59 2011 From: dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr (ding dangdong) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 19:59:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <170073.80286.qm@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> ________________________________ De : Tomas Sobota ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list Avec plaisir Tom! Btw, If you're into collecting or simply looking for some old obscure photo gadgetry, You can time your coming with the Bi?vres International Photo Fair, it's one of the biggest and longest running photo fair happening in Europe http://foirephoto-bievre.com/index.php?lang=en It's near my place. How's that for a double excuse to visit Paris. heheheheh.. Regarding my setup, im sure the uv bank of tubes would give me a better work scenario. Only trouble is i have 8 other Osram bulbs on reserve because i read somewhere that the lifespan of this lights are not as long as other options (1000 hrs?). Also the prospect of figuring out wirings, ballasts, carpentry, etc., is not very enticing to my 'plug and play' sensibilities. :-) Cheers, Ding Envoy? le : Lun 23 mai 2011, 18h 25min 51s Objet : [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source Ding, your system is worth a trip to Paris and having a look :-) However for whole sheets a bank of UV tubes makes probably more sense. Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From geoff at geoffgallery.net Mon May 23 19:48:23 2011 From: geoff at geoffgallery.net (Geoff Chaplin) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 04:48:23 +0900 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: <170073.80286.qm@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <170073.80286.qm@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006601cc1982$61d25940$25770bc0$@geoffgallery.net> Ding (and Tom), I'm using 24" (60cm) fluorescent tubes and full sheets of watercolour paper. I'd recommend 'building' a box using 6 36" (90cm) tubes - I suffer from slight light falloff printing to 24" but 18" prints are fine. Construction is a doddle - just buy narrow fluorescent tube light fittings and make a box with the tubes at the bottom and put a sheet of 6mm glass over the top of the box about 12" from the tubes. Neg/paper lie on the glass face down, cover with a sheet of plexiglass and about 6kg of books spread over the top to give good contact. It works. Obscure photo-gadgetry??? I'm looking for a Goerz Tenax 8x14 roll film camera in good condition (preferably with Dagor lens) - is that the sort of thing I might find? Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of ding dangdong Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:00 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source ________________________________ De : Tomas Sobota ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list Avec plaisir Tom! Btw, If you're into collecting or simply looking for some old obscure photo gadgetry, You can time your coming with the Bi?vres International Photo Fair, it's one of the biggest and longest running photo fair happening in Europe http://foirephoto-bievre.com/index.php?lang=en It's near my place. How's that for a double excuse to visit Paris. heheheheh.. Regarding my setup, im sure the uv bank of tubes would give me a better work scenario. Only trouble is i have 8 other Osram bulbs on reserve because i read somewhere that the lifespan of this lights are not as long as other options (1000 hrs?). Also the prospect of figuring out wirings, ballasts, carpentry, etc., is not very enticing to my 'plug and play' sensibilities. :-) Cheers, Ding Envoy? le : Lun 23 mai 2011, 18h 25min 51s Objet : [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source Ding, your system is worth a trip to Paris and having a look :-) However for whole sheets a bank of UV tubes makes probably more sense. Tom > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From tom at sobota.net Mon May 23 20:35:14 2011 From: tom at sobota.net (Tomas Sobota) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 22:35:14 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: <006601cc1982$61d25940$25770bc0$@geoffgallery.net> References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <170073.80286.qm@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <006601cc1982$61d25940$25770bc0$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: Well, the fact is that I have to go to Paris sometime during June to see a friend who lives in Venezuela but is visiting la France eternelle next month. The place I will be staying is St. Remy l?s Chevreuse, which is not very far from Bi?vre. But I doubt I will make it in time for the Photo Fair. Probably later, in which case I'll let you know, Ding, perhaps we can meet. Geoff, that's more or less the setup that I also use. If I see a Goerz Tenax somewhere I'll let you know. I have a Goerz Ango with a Dogmar lens, but it's a very different camera. Tom On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Geoff Chaplin wrote: > Ding (and Tom), > > I'm using 24" (60cm) fluorescent tubes and full sheets of watercolour > paper. I'd recommend 'building' a box using 6 36" (90cm) tubes - I suffer > from slight light falloff printing to 24" but 18" prints are fine. > Construction is a doddle - just buy narrow fluorescent tube light fittings > and make a box with the tubes at the bottom and put a sheet of 6mm glass > over the top of the box about 12" from the tubes. Neg/paper lie on the glass > face down, cover with a sheet of plexiglass and about 6kg of books spread > over the top to give good contact. It works. > > Obscure photo-gadgetry??? I'm looking for a Goerz Tenax 8x14 roll film > camera in good condition (preferably with Dagor lens) - is that the sort of > thing I might find? > > Geoff Chaplin > ?????????? > > geoff at geoffgallery.net > www.geoffgallery.net > > Skype: geoffchaplin1611 > UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 > Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 > Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 > > -----Original Message----- > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto: > alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of ding > dangdong > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:00 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source > > > > > > > ________________________________ > De : Tomas Sobota > ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list < > alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org> > Avec plaisir Tom! > Btw, If you're into collecting or simply looking for some old obscure photo > gadgetry, You can time your coming with the Bi?vres International Photo > Fair, it's one of the biggest and longest running photo fair happening in > Europe http://foirephoto-bievre.com/index.php?lang=en It's near my > place. How's that for a double excuse to visit Paris. heheheheh.. > > Regarding my setup, im sure the uv bank of tubes would give me a better > work scenario. Only trouble is i have 8 other Osram bulbs on reserve > because i read somewhere that the lifespan of this lights are not as long as > other options > (1000 hrs?). Also the prospect of figuring out wirings, ballasts, > carpentry, etc., is not very enticing to my 'plug and play' sensibilities. > :-) Cheers, Ding > > > > Envoy? le : Lun 23 mai 2011, 18h 25min 51s Objet : [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: > UV Point Light Source > > Ding, > > your system is worth a trip to Paris and having a look :-) > > However for whole sheets a bank of UV tubes makes probably more sense. > > Tom > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo_______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr Tue May 24 09:31:50 2011 From: dingedangedonge at yahoo.fr (ding dangdong) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 10:31:50 +0100 (BST) Subject: [alt-photo] Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source In-Reply-To: <006601cc1982$61d25940$25770bc0$@geoffgallery.net> References: <2A0956E9175F4DCAB49774888C9E6446@austinpowers> <20110523062414.19278.qmail@webmaildh5.aruba.it> <866502.22211.qm@web26003.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <170073.80286.qm@web26008.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <006601cc1982$61d25940$25770bc0$@geoffgallery.net> Message-ID: <126781.42447.qm@web26004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hi Geoff, This design appeals a lot to me not only because it could probably solve my print coverage problem but also eliminates my system of clamps for my neg/paper sandwich. Now, i just have to find those 90 cm tubes. About you Goerz; Im not into collecting but I think, judging from the huge turnout of sellers from all over Europe i saw last year, theres a big chance someone who has it will bring it there. Its really one big photographic 'souk'. They have some photos to give you an idea, just click the 'accueil' in their site and keep refreshing the page... Well, i'll be there so i'll ask around for you. Thanks again for the design!!! Ding ________________________________ De : Geoff Chaplin ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list Envoy? le : Lun 23 mai 2011, 21h 48min 23s Objet : [alt-photo] Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: UV Point Light Source Ding (and Tom), I'm using 24" (60cm) fluorescent tubes and full sheets of watercolour paper. I'd recommend 'building' a box using 6 36" (90cm) tubes - I suffer from slight light falloff printing to 24" but 18" prints are fine. Construction is a doddle - just buy narrow fluorescent tube light fittings and make a box with the tubes at the bottom and put a sheet of 6mm glass over the top of the box about 12" from the tubes. Neg/paper lie on the glass face down, cover with a sheet of plexiglass and about 6kg of books spread over the top to give good contact. It works. Obscure photo-gadgetry??? I'm looking for a Goerz Tenax 8x14 roll film camera in good condition (preferably with Dagor lens) - is that the sort of thing I might find? Geoff Chaplin ?????????? geoff at geoffgallery.net www.geoffgallery.net Skype: geoffchaplin1611 UK mobile (???????): +44(0) 7770 787069 Japan mobile (???????): +81(0) 90 6440 7037 Japan land line / fax (??????????): +81(0) 166 92 5855 ________________________________ De : Tomas Sobota ? : The alternative photographic processes mailing list Avec plaisir Tom! Btw, If you're into collecting or simply looking for some old obscure photo gadgetry, You can time your coming with the Bi?vres International Photo Fair, it's one of the biggest and longest running photo fair happening in Europe http://foirephoto-bievre.com/index.php?lang=en It's near my place. How's that for a double excuse to visit Paris. heheheheh.. Regarding my setup, im sure the uv bank of tubes would give me a better work scenario. Only trouble is i have 8 other Osram bulbs on reserve because i read somewhere that the lifespan of this lights are not as long as other options (1000 hrs?). Also the prospect of figuring out wirings, ballasts, carpentry, etc., is not very enticing to my 'plug and play' sensibilities. :-) Cheers, Ding > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo From frangst at gmail.com Wed May 25 01:28:50 2011 From: frangst at gmail.com (francis schanberger) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:28:50 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] The Art of the Photo Archive Installation Views Message-ID: It looks like Roger Kockaerts has created a webpage with installation views from last fall's exhibition, *the Art of the Photo Archive*. Go to http://www.permadocument.be/texte/YRK/RFK/RK/170%20years.html to see some images. -francis -- francis schanberger www.francisschanberger.com From e.camerling at tiscali.nl Thu May 26 15:00:17 2011 From: e.camerling at tiscali.nl (Erich Camerling) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 16:00:17 +0100 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Art of the Photo Archive Installation Views In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDE6B01.8000304@tiscali.nl> Op 25-5-2011 2:28, francis schanberger schreef: > It looks like Roger Kockaerts has created a webpage with installation views > from last fall's exhibition, *the Art of the Photo Archive*. > > Go tohttp://www.permadocument.be/texte/YRK/RFK/RK/170%20years.html to see > some images. > > -francis Dear Francis, The book "de kunst van het fotoarchief" ("the art of the photo archive") is really worth its value in money when you can read the Flemish text and want to know " all " about photographic processes from daguerreotype to digital photography today.There is only one weak point in the book in my opinion and that is the chemistry . Example : He calls Na2PtCl*6---------------->* NA2(PTC16) ( Sodium,Argon 2x,Phosphorus,Tritium,Carbon 16 x) Pt (Platina) --------------> PT(Phosphorus,Tritium) Ag2S + H2-----------> 2 Ag + H2O ?? etc. and a least 16 errors more. It is more than a pity that such errors are to be found in this book.For it is for the rest a very interesting book !!! Erich Camerling From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Thu May 26 19:12:57 2011 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:12:57 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] test Message-ID: test Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Thu May 26 21:46:26 2011 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 17:46:26 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? Message-ID: DEAR ALT LIST, I have sent test e-mails to all the lists to which I belong. None of the freelists have come through; Pure Silver, Hasselblad Users Group, Leica list. I tried to open the www.freelists.org website and it wouldn't open. I did receive my Alt Photo test. I know that some of you belong to some of these other lists as well as Alt. Do you have any idea what is going on? CHEERS! BOB Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi From ddjackso at gmail.com Thu May 26 22:15:02 2011 From: ddjackso at gmail.com (DDJ) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 17:15:02 -0500 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bob, I've lurked on this list for years but never comment. I did successfully access your site after your first message but figured people you know would do so and comment. I"m currently trying to figure out how many children I need to sell to attend your workshop. I have no idea why, but I could not open "freelists" either. Best, David On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:46 PM, BOB KISS wrote: > DEAR ALT LIST, > > I have sent test e-mails to all the lists to which I belong. > None of the freelists have come through; Pure Silver, Hasselblad Users > Group, Leica list. I tried to open the www.freelists.org > website and it wouldn't open. I did receive > my > Alt Photo test. > > I know that some of you belong to some of these other lists as > well as Alt. Do you have any idea what is going on? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > Please check my website: > http://www.bobkiss.com/ > > > > > "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to > live forever". Mahatma Gandhi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > From dtwilliams3 at comcast.net Thu May 26 22:21:03 2011 From: dtwilliams3 at comcast.net (Daniel Williams) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:21:03 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DDED24F.9010600@comcast.net> Bob, I just tried the website and failed also. I checked, the last message I received from pure-silver was on the 24th. Looks like the sever may be down. Dan On 5/26/2011 2:46 PM, BOB KISS wrote: > DEAR ALT LIST, > > I have sent test e-mails to all the lists to which I belong. > None of the freelists have come through; Pure Silver, Hasselblad Users > Group, Leica list. I tried to open the www.freelists.org > website and it wouldn't open. I did receive my > Alt Photo test. > > I know that some of you belong to some of these other lists as > well as Alt. Do you have any idea what is going on? > > CHEERS! > > BOB From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Fri May 27 01:46:49 2011 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 18:46:49 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB KISS" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 2:46 PM Subject: [alt-photo] OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? > DEAR ALT LIST, > > I have sent test e-mails to all the lists to > which I belong. > None of the freelists have come through; Pure Silver, > Hasselblad Users > Group, Leica list. I tried to open the www.freelists.org > website and it wouldn't open. > I did receive my > Alt Photo test. > > I know that some of you belong to some of these > other lists as > well as Alt. Do you have any idea what is going on? > > CHEERS! > > BOB There is definitely something wrong at Freelists. I am co-administrator of two lists on it. The last messages I have from Pure Silver was on the 24th and the Rolleiflex list on the 25th. The web site has a not found error. Might be a lot of things, right now the thing to do is just wait a while. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk at ix.netcom.com From dickburk at ix.netcom.com Fri May 27 19:30:13 2011 From: dickburk at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:30:13 -0700 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? References: Message-ID: <52EA5D67E1A54D42AF70B613A4BA2B93@VALUED20606295> ----- Original Message ----- From: "BOB KISS" To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 2:46 PM Subject: [alt-photo] OFF TOPIC: FREELISTS? > DEAR ALT LIST, > > I have sent test e-mails to all the lists to > which I belong. > None of the freelists have come through; Pure Silver, > Hasselblad Users > Group, Leica list. I tried to open the www.freelists.org > website and it wouldn't open. > I did receive my > Alt Photo test. > > I know that some of you belong to some of these > other lists as > well as Alt. Do you have any idea what is going on? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > I wrote Jonn Madden, the owner of Freelists. He said they had a power problem due to the heavy weather in the Indianapolis area. Their UPS is old and failed. They are back up now and are installing a temporary UPS. There will be another outage when this goes on line. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickburk at ix.netcom.com From jarvis.photography at hotmail.co.uk Sat May 28 16:51:22 2011 From: jarvis.photography at hotmail.co.uk (Gareth Jarvis) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 16:51:22 +0000 Subject: [alt-photo] Removing marks on pt/pd prints Message-ID: Hello All, I've been asked by to do research regarding removing marks from platinum prints. I don't quite understand the nature of the marks as this wasn't made clear to me. Something was mentioned about using peroxide. Could anybody expand on this for me please? Cheers, Gareth From payral at gmail.com Sat May 28 16:58:31 2011 From: payral at gmail.com (Philippe Ayral) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 18:58:31 +0200 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Removing marks on pt/pd prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you don't explain which "marks" nobody can answer (if any answer does exist) how to remevoe it ! 2011/5/28 Gareth Jarvis > > Hello All, I've been asked by to do research regarding removing marks from > platinum prints. I don't quite understand the nature of the marks as this > wasn't made clear to me. Something was mentioned about using peroxide. Could > anybody expand on this for me please? > > Cheers, > Gareth > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo > -- *Philippe Ayral* Site Web From donsbryant at gmail.com Sun May 29 04:50:38 2011 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 00:50:38 -0400 Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Removing marks on pt/pd prints In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gareth, Occasionally black specks may appear on the surface of a platinum/palladium print. Several years ago Michael Mutmansky along with Dana Sullivan described a method of bleaching these spots to paper white using tiny amounts of hydrogen peroxide mixed carefully with very small amounts of hydrochloric acid which is then applied to the paper gingerly and in small amounts with a high quality spotting brush sans metal ferrule. You can search in the old alt list archives or e-mail Dana Sullivan at Bostick & Sullivan and inquire about their methodology. Don Bryant -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Gareth Jarvis Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 12:51 PM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [alt-photo] Removing marks on pt/pd prints Hello All, I've been asked by to do research regarding removing marks from platinum prints. I don't quite understand the nature of the marks as this wasn't made clear to me. Something was mentioned about using peroxide. Could anybody expand on this for me please? Cheers, Gareth _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo