[alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?

[Don Bryant]

Where can 30% ammonia be purchased these days?  Ditto for the copper
compounds, which are likely to be quite expensive considering today's prices
for copper.  

It sounds interesting though, given the possibility of using Ware's New
Cyanotype process for increased DMAX or TC cyanotype with 1A:2B (or is it
the other way around 2A:1B)?

Don Bryant


-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Richard Sullivan
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 2:51 PM
To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?

FWIW:

http://swingsandtilts.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/397480_process_of_toning_b
lue_prints.pdf

Patent for copper toning of blue prints. Claims to be black.

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Don Sweet
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:10 PM
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?

I've been lurking here waiting for somebody to start channelling Judy

Don Sweet

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Viapiano" <viapiano at pacbell.net>
To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list"
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 1:52 PM
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?


> Elusive, not illusive  ;-)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ryuji Suzuki" <rs at silvergrain.org>
> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:59 PM
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?
>
>
> >I doubt salicylic acid would tone prussian blue pigment. The iron in the
> >blue pigment is tightly bound to cyano ligands and salicylic acid is way
> >too weak to undo that.
> >
> > Salicylic acid was useful in poisoning the redox catalyst activity of
free
> > ferrous/ferric ions in ascorbate developers, but that was a very
different
> > aim. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple
mechanisms
> > involved (e.g., free radical scavenging actions) as I don't think
> > iron-salicylate complex is very stable in alkaline solutions.
> >
> > In the protocol you described, nitric acid is probably used to decompose
> > prussian blue to free up iron for further reactions. But you don't want
> > the image to become blurry (and lose density) by allowing the iron to
> > freely diffuse in the material, so carbonate solution is used in
between.
> > But Mike Ware is the expert to ask on this topic.
> >
> > If the objective is to convert prussian blue pigment to brown black,
> > another way to do it would be to use a weak solution of sodium sulfide
or
> > ammonium sulfide (pH around 6).
> >
> > -- 
> > Ryuji Suzuki
> > "Don't play what's there, play what's not there." (Miles Davis)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gordon Holtslander wrote:
> >> Ryuji Suzuki uses salicylic acid in some of his developers to sequester
> >> iron.
> >> http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/ds-10.php
> >>
> >> I wonder if a salicylic acid could be used to clear iron  in toning
> >> cyanotype?
> >>
> >> Salicylic acid is a phenolic acid like tannic acid.  It may tone
> >> cyanotypes as well.
> >>
> >> Gord
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Francesco Fragomeni<fdfragomeni at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:07 pm
> >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?
> >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing
> >> list<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> >>
> >>> In regard to the gallic acid toning procedure, can anyone
> >>> confirm what the
> >>> nitric acid does? My assumption is that it is a clearing agent
> >>> intended to
> >>> aggressively neutralize or remove excess iron residue before
> >>> bleaching in
> >>> sodium carbonate and then toning in the gallic acid. Can anyone
> >>> confirmthis?
> >>>
> >>> -Francesco
> >
> >
> >
> >>>>>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Gordon J. Holtslander
> >>> <gjh at shaw.ca>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>> Have you tried this:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> To convert Cyano to black tones:
> >>>>>>> Place print in solution of 3 drops Nitric Acid added to 1
> >>> litre water
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>> two minutes transfer to bath of 14g Sodium Carbonate +
> >>> 160cc water -
> >>>>> leave
> >>>>>>> till image disappears and then reappears with an orange
> >>> tone transfer
> >>>>> print
> >>>>>>> to third solution of 14g Gallic Acid + 160cc water - black
> >>> tones will
> >>>>> appear
> >>>>>>> wash 30 min.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> perhaps the ferrogallic process would work;
> >>>>>>> (from Photographic Facts and Formulas 1940)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ferric
> >>> chloride         50g
> >>>>>>> ferric suplphate
> >>> (basic)        25g
> >>>>>>> tartaric
> >>> acid                   45g
> >>> water                           500 ml
> >>>>>>> Dissolve and add
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>> gelatin                         25g
> >>> water                           250cc
> >>>>>>> soak gelatin for 30 minutes and dissolve
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Development details are not given though
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Gord
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
> _______________________________________________
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