[alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
Mark Nelson
ender100 at aol.com
Wed Jan 4 19:13:17 GMT 2012
Thanks Eric
Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
On Jan 4, 2012, at 7:32 AM, "EJ Photo" <ejnphoto at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> It is certainly not a bad idea to do so : ) ... I hadn't seen that
> attributed to either Bob.
>
> Mark, The staining that I referred to was pink reddish, and it is from a
> "expensive set of chemicals" that my conservator friend down the hall talked
> to me about. I wrote them down yesterday, and will find them when I get to
> the studio.
>
>
>
> Eric Neilsen
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
> skype me with ejprinter
> Let's Talk Photography
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Mark Nelson
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:54 AM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
>
> Bob,
>
> Especially with Silver Nitrate! You could end up having a hard time
> explaining stains in weird places!
>
> Hehehe
>
> Mark Nelson
> www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
> PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>
> sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
>
> On Jan 3, 2012, at 10:29 AM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
>
>> DEAR ERIC,
>> Re: the vicissitudes of working with chemistry, do you recall if it
>> was Sandy King or Mike Ware who quotes on all his e-mails, "You can always
>> tell people who work with chemistry...they wash their hands BEFORE they go
>> to the bathroom!" Amen!
>> CHEERS!
>> BOB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> Eric Neilsen
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:11 PM
>> To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
>>
>> Mark and Bob, When Bob asked the list several weeks back for a method to
>> check for clearing, I did some asking around. I am fortunate to have an
> art
>> conservator just down the hall where my studio is located. The materials
> we
>> talked about were expensive and permanently staining. I will once again
> ask
>> her the name of it/them and get back to the list.
>>
>> The clearing steps seem simple enough but I think we need to caution users
>> not to just mix these solutions and start playing around. This is not
>> because they are extremely hazardous by themselves but when used in
>> combination, can produce some rather noxious gases. The acids by
> themselves
>> can be hazardous. And this is why some are hesitant to spread chemical
> ideas
>> and knowledge freely/loosely on the net, these things can kill you. That's
>> not to say that they will but not actually being with someone, or at least
>> talking to them, some lab folks have atrocious practices; see Bill Jays
> book
>> on early photo practices, 'Cyanide and Spirits'.
>>
>> Rinsing in-between acids and the EDTA solutions, and/or Hypo Clear
>> solutions, with water is HIGHLY recommended.
>>
>>
>> Eric Neilsen
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> 214-827-8301
>>
>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
>> SKYPE ejprinter
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> BOB KISS
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:47 AM
>> To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
>>
>> DEAR MARK,
>> Yes, I did receive your e-mail, thanks, and finally got around to
>> checking it out. I am hoping that some of the chem gurus like Eric
> Neilsen
>> might let us all know if it will work for our purposes. Here is the link.
>>
>>
> http://www.preservationequipment.com/Store/Products/Conservation-Materials/O
>> ther-Materials/Iron-Gall-Ink-Test-Paper
>>
>> Standing by to see if this is a good test for clearing...
>> CHEERS!
>> BOB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
> Of
>> Nelson Mark
>> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:49 PM
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
>>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> Boy, every time I would start to write a thanks for the responses, I would
>> fine another response! I appreciate everyone's feedback. Obviously the
>> list is still very responsive and full of good information from a lot of
>> people! By the way, I posted the same exact question 3 places on Facebook
>> and got only a few responses and very little discussion. People tend to
>> only post their work there.
>>
>> My reason for posting this question was a phone call I had recently with
>> Dick Arentz. He mentioned that he had some correspondence from someone
> who
>> was doing a summer internship at the Art Institute in Chicago. The
> project
>> had to do with testing the archival qualities of their Pt/Pd collection.
> If
>> I remember Dick's comment correctly, they were concerned because the
> prints
>> didn't turn out to be quite as archival as they thought. I would love to
>> get more information from them about that. Anyone have a contact there?
> I
>> have a membership and was thinking of making an appointment with the
>> Photography department there and seeing if they would talk about what they
>> found out more specifically. It sounds like from what folks have said
> here
>> that many of these prints might have been cleared with HCL, however
>> regardless of method, there is always the chance of error or sloppiness.
>>
>> Bob, did you get the info I sent you regarding the Iron Gall Test
> paper?Iron
>> Gall Ink Test Paper - Preservation Equipment
>>
>> Eric, thanks for that history of workflows. That was very informative.
>> What is the test for iron you referred to that might leave a blue stain?
>>
>> Has anyone tried the Iron Gall Test? That shows a red stain.
>>
>> I remember a conversation with Sandy King a few years ago and he mentioned
>> that one thing he always watches is how well his prints clear in the
>> developer. That has always stuck with me. In addition, I do find that
> the
>> prints clear some during the initial water rinse after developer at my
>> studio. I know this is a problem for some folks with slightly alkaline
> tap
>> water.
>>
>> In general, while it appears that there are a number of workflows that are
>> working fine for different folks, there is not a whole lot of change in
>> practice in recent years. True?
>>
>> Thanks again to everyone for your responses.
>>
>> Happy New Year!
>>
>> Best Wishes,
>> Mark Nelson
>>
>> Welcome to the Precision Digital Negatives Home!
>> PDNPrint : Precision Digital Negatives Forum Mark I. Nelson Photography -
>> Welcome
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2012, at 8:52 AM, EJ Photo wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the clearing of prints has indeed evolved over time. When I
>>> first learned to print, it was HCL all the way; three baths, all mixed
>>> the same, use it so that the last one was clear - no color. And yes,
>>> the first bath would indeed get cloudy and colored so later in my
>>> practice I cleared with distilled water rinse, then acid. Citric
>>> Acid, Oxalic acid had their
>> place,
>>> but HCL was cheap and did the job. Along came the late 80, and early
>>> nineties and I saw Ware's paper on pt/pd printing, and hear of
>>> additional uses of EDTA, sodium sulfite. These are both in hypo
>>> clearing agent and
>> did
>>> seem to make some sense.
>>>
>>> Progressive baths from disodium to tetrasodium EDTA moves from acid to
>>> basic. One need only feel the paper after a clearing in HCL compared
>>> to
>> EDTA
>>> and other acid to know that the paper structure was changed by the
>>> HCL; it is now stiffer. Having had many conversations and seeing
>>> prints at John Stevenson's Gallery in Santa Fe, Platinum Plus many of
>>> us moved away from straight HCL or acids to less aggressive clearing
>>> agents. Some of that old time staining was part of the print, at least
>>> for those made in the early period of printing and those selling them
> were
>> not bothered by it.
>>>
>>> How clear is clear and at what cost to the paper?
>>>
>>> Tests on your process can be done with sample prints to avoid the blue
>> stain
>>> that comes with many of the residual test.
>>>
>>> Eric Neilsen
>>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>>
>>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
>>> skype me with ejprinter
>>> Let's Talk Photography
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>>> Behalf
>> Of
>>> etienne garbaux
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:48 PM
>>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
>>>
>>> Loris wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember to read that HCl severes some of the H bonds in the
>>>> cellulose molecule, that's no good - especially in the context of
>>>> pt/pd printing, where the image is stronger than the support.
>>>
>>> Again, all of the antique Pt prints that were cleared in HCl and to
>>> this day show no apparent degradation of the paper suggest that, at
>>> the very least, any macro damage from the practice can be held to
>>> imperceptible levels with careful processing.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> etienne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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