From christinazanderson at gmail.com Sat Aug 10 22:03:57 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 16:03:57 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] wrinkles Message-ID: Dear All, Not the ones on my face... I encountered this "event" the first time ever while teaching a workshop at the Formulary this past week. I noticed on one student's prints these weird wavy lines that looked like when you expose paper while still damp and it unevenly is in contact with the negative. But that wasn't it. Finally a student was smart enough to discover the issue (not me!). The tissue sheets between pieces of inkpress were wrinkled, and so apparently when the negative was fresh from the printer and placed in between these, using them as interleaving sheets, the interleaving sheets puckered with the mild bit of moisture and then in turn produced uneven dry marks on the negatives. The following day I used a blow dryer on one sheet and it seemed to alleviate some of the marks but not quite. Has anyone experienced this??? Is it just that a thicker substrate like Pictorico doesn't do it and this does? However, I have used Inkpress for a few years now and never ever noticed it. I am just so surprised I have been printing diginegs for 13 years and have never noticed this issue. However, I do let my negs dry face up on the counter for a half hour and then put them in plastic notebook sleeves. But last year I did store my negs in a box with these sheets when I didn't have neg sleeves with me... I'm a bit worried that this is particular to ink press. Here's a URL to click on to see the phenomenon. Chris http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=1953 Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com From dspector at charter.net Sat Aug 10 22:22:05 2013 From: dspector at charter.net (Denny) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:22:05 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000e01ce9618$0bb780c0$23268240$@charter.net> I've experienced this with Pictorico stored between sheets of glassine. Stopped using glassine and the problem went away. -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Christina Anderson Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 3:04 PM To: Alt List Subject: [Alt-photo] wrinkles Dear All, Not the ones on my face... I encountered this "event" the first time ever while teaching a workshop at the Formulary this past week. I noticed on one student's prints these weird wavy lines that looked like when you expose paper while still damp and it unevenly is in contact with the negative. But that wasn't it. Finally a student was smart enough to discover the issue (not me!). The tissue sheets between pieces of inkpress were wrinkled, and so apparently when the negative was fresh from the printer and placed in between these, using them as interleaving sheets, the interleaving sheets puckered with the mild bit of moisture and then in turn produced uneven dry marks on the negatives. The following day I used a blow dryer on one sheet and it seemed to alleviate some of the marks but not quite. Has anyone experienced this??? Is it just that a thicker substrate like Pictorico doesn't do it and this does? However, I have used Inkpress for a few years now and never ever noticed it. I am just so surprised I have been printing diginegs for 13 years and have never noticed this issue. However, I do let my negs dry face up on the counter for a half hour and then put them in plastic notebook sleeves. But last year I did store my negs in a box with these sheets when I didn't have neg sleeves with me... I'm a bit worried that this is particular to ink press. Here's a URL to click on to see the phenomenon. Chris http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=1953 Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Aug 10 22:45:49 2013 From: 1oldlens1 at ix.netcom.com (Richard Knoppow) Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 15:45:49 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles References: <000e01ce9618$0bb780c0$23268240$@charter.net> Message-ID: <282FF81AA5AE4E1CA2E3570D665D9E87@VALUED20606295> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denny" To: Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 3:22 PM Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles > I've experienced this with Pictorico stored between sheets > of glassine. > Stopped using glassine and the problem went away. > Glassine reminds me that I encountered something like this when drying conventional prints in blotter books. Blotter books usually have a non-absorbent separator between the blotters. The prints go in with the emulsion facing this separator. They are often made of glassine or something very similar and eventually wrinkle. When wrinkled the wrinkles transfer to the prints you are drying and they look awful. -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL dickburk at ix.netcom.com From mjkoskin at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 08:48:00 2013 From: mjkoskin at gmail.com (Matti Koskinen) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 11:48:00 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] try one Message-ID: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> hi, here's the first try on my way to someday do real photogravure: http://www.flickr.com/photos/91329867 at N06/ I saw in the opening of our annual exhibition a real intaglio, and developing the idea, how could I do in a cheap way photogravures, I tried with what I had. First a photo of my son's cousin, at the age of 5. I knew a way of making printed circuit boards with laser printer, so I googled a bit. I made crude halftone by converting to bitmap in PS, and printed on a transparency. Then it took two days and two nights to find suitable curve and temperature and heating. The toner on the transparency is transferred to the copper side of a PCB with cloth iron, by heating thru a sheet of paper the transparency placed on copper. Pressing the iron, and slightly moving it, I finally (sort of) succeeded in getting the toner on the copper. Then the PCB was etched in ferric chloride, washed and dried. When looking at a suitable angle, the photo is visible. First I thought of the UV-laquer, but mine had expired in 11/1995, so I tried this direct laser method. My ferric chloride and the pieces of PCB are from the same era. Ferric chloride was really exhausted, it took something between two to three hours to get all the visible copper off. As I did the etching outside, because ferric chloride stains everything badly, the dish I used was not on level, and having very little of etchant, the result is not even. But yesterday she had her 15th birthday, and was really delighted of my gift, this try. Our art collective has the press for making intaglios, so I need to get a sheet of copper plus other things, and hone my technique, to get the image right and then everything else, to do an intaglio. best -matti From remko at degraaff.biz Sun Aug 11 11:56:03 2013 From: remko at degraaff.biz (remko) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 13:56:03 +0200 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52077BD3.809@degraaff.biz> I see the same behaviour when drying my negatives (Agfa copy jet) between sheets of normal inkjet printing paper . so I introduced the blower as standard step in my workflow remko Op 11-8-2013 0:03, Christina Anderson schreef: > Dear All, > > Not the ones on my face... > > I encountered this "event" the first time ever while teaching a workshop at the Formulary this past week. I noticed on one student's prints these weird wavy lines that looked like when you expose paper while still damp and it unevenly is in contact with the negative. But that wasn't it. Finally a student was smart enough to discover the issue (not me!). The tissue sheets between pieces of inkpress were wrinkled, and so apparently when the negative was fresh from the printer and placed in between these, using them as interleaving sheets, the interleaving sheets puckered with the mild bit of moisture and then in turn produced uneven dry marks on the negatives. The following day I used a blow dryer on one sheet and it seemed to alleviate some of the marks but not quite. > > Has anyone experienced this??? Is it just that a thicker substrate like Pictorico doesn't do it and this does? However, I have used Inkpress for a few years now and never ever noticed it. I am just so surprised I have been printing diginegs for 13 years and have never noticed this issue. However, I do let my negs dry face up on the counter for a half hour and then put them in plastic notebook sleeves. But last year I did store my negs in a box with these sheets when I didn't have neg sleeves with me... > > I'm a bit worried that this is particular to ink press. > > Here's a URL to click on to see the phenomenon. > Chris > > http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=1953 > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > > From zamm at optonline.net Sun Aug 11 12:44:16 2013 From: zamm at optonline.net (Craig Zammiello) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 08:44:16 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8185757B-E32F-417D-B67D-86E89073E344@optonline.net> Hey Matti, That's really nice. Very distinctive look to it. I remember those circuit board kits... Neat stuff. What you have made is actually referred to as a photoengraving. Cool! C Craig Zammiello http://photogravureinformation.homestead.com/ http://zammiello.com On Aug 11, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Matti Koskinen wrote: > hi, > > here's the first try on my way to someday do real photogravure: http://www.flickr.com/photos/91329867 at N06/ > > I saw in the opening of our annual exhibition a real intaglio, and developing the idea, how could I do in a cheap way photogravures, I tried with what I had. First a photo of my son's cousin, at the age of 5. I knew a way of making printed circuit boards with laser printer, so I googled a bit. I made crude halftone by converting to bitmap in PS, and printed on a transparency. Then it took two days and two nights to find suitable curve and temperature and heating. The toner on the transparency is transferred to the copper side of a PCB with cloth iron, by heating thru a sheet of paper the transparency placed on copper. Pressing the iron, and slightly moving it, I finally (sort of) succeeded in getting the toner on the copper. Then the PCB was etched in ferric chloride, washed and dried. When looking at a suitable angle, the photo is visible. > > First I thought of the UV-laquer, but mine had expired in 11/1995, so I tried this direct laser method. My ferric chloride and the pieces of PCB are from the same era. Ferric chloride was really exhausted, it took something between two to three hours to get all the visible copper off. As I did the etching outside, because ferric chloride stains everything badly, the dish I used was not on level, and having very little of etchant, the result is not even. But yesterday she had her 15th birthday, and was really delighted of my gift, this try. > > Our art collective has the press for making intaglios, so I need to get a sheet of copper plus other things, and hone my technique, to get the image right and then everything else, to do an intaglio. > > best > > -matti > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From hchapman at coastside.net Sun Aug 11 13:41:16 2013 From: hchapman at coastside.net (Harlan Chapman) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 06:41:16 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Christina, I have had this happen using Pictorico Premium OHP as well. A stack of negatives on Pictorico was interleaved with Light Impressions tissue before storage. They all became unprintable with the same subtle wavy lines you describe. I've found that drying the freshly printed digineg face up on a print drying screen for several days before storing, and then storing stacked directly with other diginegs or in plastic sleeves, seems to help if you want to keep the digneg. -Harlan > I'm a bit worried that this is particular to ink press. > > Here's a URL to click on to see the phenomenon. > Chris > > http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=1953 > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > From christinazanderson at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 14:12:52 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 08:12:52 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: <000e01ce9618$0bb780c0$23268240$@charter.net> References: <000e01ce9618$0bb780c0$23268240$@charter.net> Message-ID: <00C9C91B-2034-4187-9927-44AD2A5B10A0@gmail.com> Ok then that's that! Inkpress is fine; interleaving sheets are out. Thanks for answering so quickly! It's always something... Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 10, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Denny wrote: > I've experienced this with Pictorico stored between sheets of glassine. > Stopped using glassine and the problem went away. > > -----Original Message----- > Christina Anderson > I encountered this "event" the first time ever while teaching a workshop at > the Formulary this past week. I noticed on one student's prints these weird > wavy lines that looked like when you expose paper while still damp and it > unevenly is in contact with the negative. But that wasn't it. Finally a > student was smart enough to discover the issue (not me!). The tissue sheets > between pieces of inkpress were wrinkled, and so apparently when the > negative was fresh from the printer and placed in between these, using them > as interleaving sheets, the interleaving sheets puckered with the mild bit > of moisture and then in turn produced uneven dry marks on the negatives. The > following day I used a blow dryer on one sheet and it seemed to alleviate > some of the marks but not quite. > From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sun Aug 11 14:33:31 2013 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (KISS BOB) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 10:33:31 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: <00C9C91B-2034-4187-9927-44AD2A5B10A0@gmail.com> References: <000e01ce9618$0bb780c0$23268240$@charter.net> <00C9C91B-2034-4187-9927-44AD2A5B10A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: DEAR CHRISTINA, I discovered when I first started inkjet printing digital negs using Inkpress and Dan Burkholder's template, under the guidance of Eric Nielsen, that there were MANY things that could go wrong with a newly printed negative; scratches, smudges, water spots from a splash on the other side of the darkroom, etc. So I adjusted my workflow to have the Frotoshopped template(s) waiting on my computer to be printed at the end of the workday. I then hung them up to dry overnight. Suddenly all problems disappeared! I store my diginegs in those very thin clear archival envelopes...sorry, can't recall the name; " Crystal Clear-sometning"...and have never had a wrinkling problem but, again, I do this after an 8 to 12 hour drying time over night. Your work flow in your studio or at a university might not allow this so the hair dryer might be your best bet but, by all means, make sure the neg is bone dry before putting it anywhere. And I never use paper, glassine, or anything other than these crystal clear envelopes to protect my negs. Let me know what you do from here... CHEERS! BOB On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 08:12:52 -0600 Christina Anderson wrote: > Ok then that's that! Inkpress is fine; interleaving >sheets are out. Thanks for answering so quickly! It's >always something... > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > On Aug 10, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Denny wrote: > >> I've experienced this with Pictorico stored between >>sheets of glassine. >> Stopped using glassine and the problem went away. >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> Christina Anderson >> I encountered this "event" the first time ever while >>teaching a workshop at >> the Formulary this past week. I noticed on one student's >>prints these weird >> wavy lines that looked like when you expose paper while >>still damp and it >> unevenly is in contact with the negative. But that >>wasn't it. Finally a >> student was smart enough to discover the issue (not >>me!). The tissue sheets >> between pieces of inkpress were wrinkled, and so >>apparently when the >> negative was fresh from the printer and placed in >>between these, using them >> as interleaving sheets, the interleaving sheets puckered >>with the mild bit >> of moisture and then in turn produced uneven dry marks >>on the negatives. The >> following day I used a blow dryer on one sheet and it >>seemed to alleviate >> some of the marks but not quite. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | >lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From aschmitt at aandy.org Sun Aug 11 14:46:45 2013 From: aschmitt at aandy.org (andy schmitt) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 10:46:45 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <175b01ce96a1$d38d31b0$7aa79510$@aandy.org> Hey Matti Wonderful idea... I had one somewhat similar a while ago, but of course, notebooked it & there it sits. I know you are looking to use it as a plate but it looks like a good start to a dimensional Cu print... Thanks a bunch for sharing this. Regards Andy Schmitt Head of The New & Improved Photography Dept, Peters Valley School of Craft http://www.petersvalley.org/html/Photography.cfm -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Matti Koskinen Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 4:48 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [Alt-photo] try one hi, here's the first try on my way to someday do real photogravure: http://www.flickr.com/photos/91329867 at N06/ I saw in the opening of our annual exhibition a real intaglio, and developing the idea, how could I do in a cheap way photogravures, I tried with what I had. First a photo of my son's cousin, at the age of 5. I knew a way of making printed circuit boards with laser printer, so I googled a bit. I made crude halftone by converting to bitmap in PS, and printed on a transparency. Then it took two days and two nights to find suitable curve and temperature and heating. The toner on the transparency is transferred to the copper side of a PCB with cloth iron, by heating thru a sheet of paper the transparency placed on copper. Pressing the iron, and slightly moving it, I finally (sort of) succeeded in getting the toner on the copper. Then the PCB was etched in ferric chloride, washed and dried. When looking at a suitable angle, the photo is visible. First I thought of the UV-laquer, but mine had expired in 11/1995, so I tried this direct laser method. My ferric chloride and the pieces of PCB are from the same era. Ferric chloride was really exhausted, it took something between two to three hours to get all the visible copper off. As I did the etching outside, because ferric chloride stains everything badly, the dish I used was not on level, and having very little of etchant, the result is not even. But yesterday she had her 15th birthday, and was really delighted of my gift, this try. Our art collective has the press for making intaglios, so I need to get a sheet of copper plus other things, and hone my technique, to get the image right and then everything else, to do an intaglio. best -matti _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From mjkoskin at gmail.com Sun Aug 11 18:24:01 2013 From: mjkoskin at gmail.com (Matti Koskinen) Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 21:24:01 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: <175b01ce96a1$d38d31b0$7aa79510$@aandy.org> References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> <175b01ce96a1$d38d31b0$7aa79510$@aandy.org> Message-ID: <9C1504B1-36E4-4233-A8C7-8555D83C00E4@gmail.com> On Aug 11, 2013, at 5:46 PM, andy schmitt wrote: > Hey Matti > Wonderful idea... I had one somewhat similar a while ago, but of course, > notebooked it & there it sits. > I know you are looking to use it as a plate but it looks like a good start > to a dimensional Cu print... > Thanks a bunch for sharing this. > > Regards > > Andy Schmitt > > Head of The New & Improved Photography Dept, > Peters Valley School of Craft > http://www.petersvalley.org/html/Photography.cfm Hi Andy, thanks a lot, what this thing should be called, cuprotype doesn't qualify :-) -matti From mail at loris.medici.name Mon Aug 12 07:40:40 2013 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 10:40:40 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert Message-ID: Hi all, Not exactly the right place to ask but is there anyone using Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert products? (I think there were a couple of users of this product here...) I just purchased an Epson V700 scanner (my 9 years old Epson 2400 died last week) and I'm not completely happy with its standard MF film holder; gives a hard time with curled MF film. (Probably since I use a tanning developer, I experience more film curling than I would like to have...) 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? Thanks in advance, Loris. P.S. You may choose to reply in private if you think the subject is far too much OFF TOPIC. From christinazanderson at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 15:13:55 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:13:55 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> WOW. This is very interesting to me. I think it is so bad that it should be printed on the package. The negatives are truly unprintable! Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 11, 2013, at 7:41 AM, Harlan Chapman wrote: > Hello Christina, > I have had this happen using Pictorico Premium OHP as well. A stack of > negatives on Pictorico was interleaved with Light Impressions tissue before > storage. They all became unprintable with the same subtle wavy lines you > describe. > I've found that drying the freshly printed digineg face up on a print > drying screen for several days before storing, and then storing stacked > directly with other diginegs or in plastic sleeves, seems to help if you > want to keep the digneg. > -Harlan > > > > >> I'm a bit worried that this is particular to ink press. >> >> Here's a URL to click on to see the phenomenon. >> Chris >> >> http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=1953 >> >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo >> > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From christinazanderson at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 15:19:37 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 09:19:37 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: References: <000e01ce9618$0bb780c0$23268240$@charter.net> <00C9C91B-2034-4187-9927-44AD2A5B10A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02A01029-BD1B-4CDC-AA46-4B1F797254A5@gmail.com> I don't think this convo has ever come up on the list before and now I find that multiples have experienced it! I always dry face up for an hour and then put in plastic sleeves so I will continue, but as far as workshops go when you're printing out tricolor negs for all students, that's a lot of counter space. The thing I don't understand is yes, the negative may dry differentially, but why permanently, because it would seem once the negative is bone dry after that it should all fall into place. But it doesn't. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 11, 2013, at 8:33 AM, KISS BOB wrote: > DEAR CHRISTINA, > I discovered when I first started inkjet printing digital negs using Inkpress and Dan Burkholder's template, under the guidance of Eric Nielsen, that there were MANY things that could go wrong with a newly printed negative; scratches, smudges, water spots from a splash on the other side of the darkroom, etc. So I adjusted my workflow to have the Frotoshopped template(s) waiting on my computer to be printed at the end of the workday. I then hung them up to dry overnight. Suddenly all problems disappeared! > I store my diginegs in those very thin clear archival envelopes...sorry, can't recall the name; " Crystal Clear-sometning"...and have never had a wrinkling problem but, again, I do this after an 8 to 12 hour drying time over night. Your work flow in your studio or at a university might not allow this so the hair dryer might be your best bet but, by all means, make sure the neg is bone dry before putting it anywhere. And I never use paper, glassine, or anything other than these crystal clear envelopes to protect my negs. > Let me know what you do from here... > CHEERS! > BOB > > On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 08:12:52 -0600 > Christina Anderson wrote: >> Ok then that's that! Inkpress is fine; interleaving sheets are out. Thanks for answering so quickly! It's always something... >> Chris >> Christina Z. Anderson >> christinaZanderson.com >> On Aug 10, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Denny wrote: >>> I've experienced this with Pictorico stored between sheets of glassine. >>> Stopped using glassine and the problem went away. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> Christina Anderson >>> I encountered this "event" the first time ever while teaching a workshop at >>> the Formulary this past week. I noticed on one student's prints these weird >>> wavy lines that looked like when you expose paper while still damp and it >>> unevenly is in contact with the negative. But that wasn't it. Finally a >>> student was smart enough to discover the issue (not me!). The tissue sheets >>> between pieces of inkpress were wrinkled, and so apparently when the >>> negative was fresh from the printer and placed in between these, using them >>> as interleaving sheets, the interleaving sheets puckered with the mild bit >>> of moisture and then in turn produced uneven dry marks on the negatives. The >>> following day I used a blow dryer on one sheet and it seemed to alleviate >>> some of the marks but not quite. >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From dlhbloomfield at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 15:41:45 2013 From: dlhbloomfield at gmail.com (Diana Bloomfield) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:41:45 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> References: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C765C7E-C643-4C5A-821A-3CF7458BF0B3@gmail.com> I don't think I've ever had that happen, but I can see how it would. I mostly use Pictorico, mainly because those seem to be able to withstand constant use better. I had not tried Inkpress in a while, because when I used that brand before, every third negative came out damaged. But I used a box recently, and I was impressed by how much they've improved over what they used to be. They seemed slightly thicker, and every one was perfect-- like Pictorico. But I get these books with clear acetate(?) sleeves in them-- at Jerry's-- when they go on sale, and store mine there. Admittedly, I sometimes just put them in the flat file drawer with nothing protecting them at all, except the darkness. They seem fine-- but I'm getting more organized and placing them in these books now. ;) So does this happen, because they're stored immediately after printing, and so the ink is not completely dry? Or is this even before printing-- from humidity-- or something? On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > WOW. This is very interesting to me. I think it is so bad that it should be printed on the package. The negatives are truly unprintable! > Chris > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > From gneissgirl at spamcop.net Mon Aug 12 16:32:58 2013 From: gneissgirl at spamcop.net (Mary) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 10:32:58 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> References: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <52090E3A.5090508@spamcop.net> I've seen what is probably the same phenomenon with Toyobo KM 43 photopolymer plates. I printed an image and noticed some pretty obvious wavy bands in the print. It was puzzling, not to mention disappointing, because there was nothing in the positive (printed on Arista II inkjet film btw), so I inspected the plate. I could just barely see it on the plate, but couldn't figure out why it was there. The plates come with a UV-protective plastic film that you peel off before exposing. The next time I removed the protective film from a new plate in preparation for exposing it, I noticed the wavy bands on the film and on the plate. I wouldn't call them wrinkles, really - more like ripples. It sounds like exactly the same sort of thing, don't you think? Has anyone else noticed this with these plates? Mary in Boise On 8/12/13 9:13 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > WOW. This is very interesting to me. I think it is so bad that it should be printed on the package. The negatives are truly unprintable! > Chris > Christina Z. Anderson > christinaZanderson.com > > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > From donsbryant at gmail.com Mon Aug 12 16:36:53 2013 From: donsbryant at gmail.com (Don Bryant) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 12:36:53 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? doug at betterscanning.com > 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? Absolutely. I use the products you've mentioned and they work very well. Don Bryant On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > Hi all, > > Not exactly the right place to ask but is there anyone using Betterscan > Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert products? (I think there > were a couple of users of this product here...) > > I just purchased an Epson V700 scanner (my 9 years old Epson 2400 died last > week) and I'm not completely happy with its standard MF film holder; gives > a hard time with curled MF film. (Probably since I use a tanning developer, > I experience more film curling than I would like to have...) > > 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? > 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? > > Thanks in advance, > Loris. > > P.S. You may choose to reply in private if you think the subject is far too > much OFF TOPIC. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Aug 13 06:17:31 2013 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:17:31 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Sam & Don, I've sent an email to Doug. I think I'm going to order the dual MF film holder with the ANR insert... Sam I'm still interested with your glass solution, can you please elaborate? I may use it for 4x5" film. (Can buy a couple of pieces of anti-glare museum glass - I'm talking about the ultra expensive glass not the ordinary /cheap plastic anti-glare glazing...) ?Regards, Loris. ? 2013/8/12 Don Bryant > > 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? > > doug at betterscanning.com > > > 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? > > Absolutely. I use the products you've mentioned and they work very well. > > Don Bryant > > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:40 AM, Loris Medici >wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Not exactly the right place to ask but is there anyone using Betterscan > > Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert products? (I think there > > were a couple of users of this product here...) > > > > I just purchased an Epson V700 scanner (my 9 years old Epson 2400 died > last > > week) and I'm not completely happy with its standard MF film holder; > gives > > a hard time with curled MF film. (Probably since I use a tanning > developer, > > I experience more film curling than I would like to have...) > > > > 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? > > 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Loris. > > > > P.S. You may choose to reply in private if you think the subject is far > too > > much OFF TOPIC. > > _______________________________________________ > > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > From jean.daubas at wanadoo.fr Tue Aug 13 08:21:08 2013 From: jean.daubas at wanadoo.fr (Jean Daubas) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:21:08 +0200 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Loris, Yes, Doug Fisher is still very active. There is a very interesting Yahoo Group named "Epson scanners" completely dedicated to all sorts of issues, questions about the Epson scanners and I read Doug's last post on that list on July 27th. By the way, in this group scanning negatives has been often discussed and it happened that Betterscanning solutions were mentioned. I quote here one post about it : > For top-notch filmholders, get one of Doug's at > http://www.BetterScanning.com/ You won't be disappointed. I had one > for my 4870, and currently use one for my V700, and scans from each using > the holders rival the best done anywhere. > > eric perkins > Hope it helps, Alternative cheers from France, Jean -----Message d'origine----- From: Loris Medici Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:40 AM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [Alt-photo] OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert Hi all, Not exactly the right place to ask but is there anyone using Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert products? (I think there were a couple of users of this product here...) I just purchased an Epson V700 scanner (my 9 years old Epson 2400 died last week) and I'm not completely happy with its standard MF film holder; gives a hard time with curled MF film. (Probably since I use a tanning developer, I experience more film curling than I would like to have...) 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? Thanks in advance, Loris. P.S. You may choose to reply in private if you think the subject is far too much OFF TOPIC. _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Aug 13 10:04:50 2013 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:04:50 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Jean. I'm waiting his email, will order his variable height dual MF film holder. Won't bother with the ANR glass, I can purchase similar stuff locally. Regards, Loris. 2013/8/13 Jean Daubas > Hi Loris, > > Yes, Doug Fisher is still very active. There is a very interesting Yahoo > Group named "Epson scanners" completely dedicated to all sorts of issues, > questions about the Epson scanners and I read Doug's last post on that list > on July 27th. > By the way, in this group scanning negatives has been often discussed and > it happened that Betterscanning solutions were mentioned. > > I quote here one post about it : > > For top-notch filmholders, get one of Doug's at >> http://www.BetterScanning.com/ You won't be disappointed. I had one >> for my 4870, and currently use one for my V700, and scans from each using >> the holders rival the best done anywhere. >> >> eric perkins >> >> > Hope it helps, > Alternative cheers from France, > Jean > > > > -----Message d'origine----- From: Loris Medici > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 9:40 AM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [Alt-photo] OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF > filmholder > > + ANR Insert > > Hi all, > > Not exactly the right place to ask but is there anyone using Betterscan > Epson V Series Dual MF film holder + ANR Insert products? (I think there > were a couple of users of this product here...) > > I just purchased an Epson V700 scanner (my 9 years old Epson 2400 died last > week) and I'm not completely happy with its standard MF film holder; gives > a hard time with curled MF film. (Probably since I use a tanning developer, > I experience more film curling than I would like to have...) > > 1. Is Betterscan / Doug Fisher still active? > 2. Do you recommend the products mentioned above? > > Thanks in advance, > Loris. > > P.S. You may choose to reply in private if you think the subject is far too > much OFF TOPIC. > ______________________________**_________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/**mailman/listinfo > ______________________________**_________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/**mailman/listinfo > From christinazanderson at gmail.com Tue Aug 13 16:13:36 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:13:36 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: <6C765C7E-C643-4C5A-821A-3CF7458BF0B3@gmail.com> References: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> <6C765C7E-C643-4C5A-821A-3CF7458BF0B3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CE84DDB-5DFD-4F76-A3D4-FFE9C5F6CC8E@gmail.com> Diana This is why I am so surprised, because in 10+ years of printing out diginegs it has never happened. But when I think of it, Pictorico does not come with interleaving sheets. However, I have used Inkpress before, probably two boxes of 50 all told. The environment here is SO dry generally and it must be that I never put the negative in contact with the interleaving tissue immediately. Once it's dry no problem I would suppose. I checked to make sure the sheets were not that way before printing and they are not. You could see on the back of the printed negative the milkiness in waves. I am glad I shared this on this list because with group-think we now have a clear answer whereas before I was really going to blame Inkpress and then be mistaken. Mary, I bet it's the same thing. I could tell it was from the interleaving sheets because the waves followed the sheet exactly. At the Formulary it is usually very dry but it was quite humid (for Montana that is!) this time. Chris Christina Z. Anderson christinaZanderson.com On Aug 12, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Diana Bloomfield wrote: > I don't think I've ever had that happen, but I can see how it would. I mostly use Pictorico, mainly because those seem to be able to withstand constant use better. I had not tried Inkpress in a while, because when I used that brand before, every third negative came out damaged. But I used a box recently, and I was impressed by how much they've improved over what they used to be. They seemed slightly thicker, and every one was perfect-- like Pictorico. But I get these books with clear acetate(?) sleeves in them-- at Jerry's-- when they go on sale, and store mine there. Admittedly, I sometimes just put them in the flat file drawer with nothing protecting them at all, except the darkness. They seem fine-- but I'm getting more organized and placing them in these books now. ;) > > So does this happen, because they're stored immediately after printing, and so the ink is not completely dry? Or is this even before printing-- from humidity-- or something? From jon at intaglioeditions.com Tue Aug 13 18:16:44 2013 From: jon at intaglioeditions.com (Jon Lybrook) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:16:44 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: wrinkles In-Reply-To: <8CE84DDB-5DFD-4F76-A3D4-FFE9C5F6CC8E@gmail.com> References: <927EF368-7746-4C5F-A2FD-1A9D17DFBAFE@gmail.com> <6C765C7E-C643-4C5A-821A-3CF7458BF0B3@gmail.com> <8CE84DDB-5DFD-4F76-A3D4-FFE9C5F6CC8E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Pictorico can really suck up the moisture, even in dry climates like here in Colorado. Glassine, on the other hand, repels it quite well. Part of my procedure is to dry the film positives made on Pictorico in a print drier for about 20 minutes after giving at least 2 hours of dry time in the open air. I think Keith Taylor told me about the print dryer trick. We do it to help prevent film from sticking to the polymer plate and to minimize air pockets, which leads to contact issues. You may want to try that. Thanks for posting your issue with pictures. That helps to see exactly what's going on! Kind regards, Jon Lybrook Intaglio Editions http://intaglioeditions.com On 2013-08-13 10:13, Christina Anderson wrote: > At the Formulary it is usually very dry but it was quite humid (for > Montana that is!) this time. > Chris From mail at loris.medici.name Tue Aug 13 21:53:42 2013 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 00:53:42 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: O ?k, I've corresponded with Doug. Unfortunately I'm not ordering anything from him: despite placing an on-line order for a Dual MF Film Holder for V700 (w/o ANR glass) at his site, he tried to sell me the product w/o T-locks but with two? ANR glasses with considerable surcharge! (Naturally...) He was definitely not willing to ship the product as it is exactly advertised on the site. This is called bait-and-switching in my book; he seems like a good designer, but a really bad businessman (and/or webmaster)... Regards, Loris. From ravene at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 07:29:45 2013 From: ravene at gmail.com (raven erebus) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 00:29:45 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> Message-ID: I find that if you pre-heat the metal with the iron before you start the laser printer transfer it works a lot better. I've only done this on solid copper though. It worked remarkably well! I'm using an HP laserjet 5P to print. I've heard that the newer laser printers don't work as well. Raven On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Matti Koskinen wrote: > hi, > > here's the first try on my way to someday do real photogravure: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/**91329867 at N06/ > > I saw in the opening of our annual exhibition a real intaglio, and > developing the idea, how could I do in a cheap way photogravures, I tried > with what I had. First a photo of my son's cousin, at the age of 5. I knew > a way of making printed circuit boards with laser printer, so I googled a > bit. I made crude halftone by converting to bitmap in PS, and printed on a > transparency. Then it took two days and two nights to find suitable curve > and temperature and heating. The toner on the transparency is transferred > to the copper side of a PCB with cloth iron, by heating thru a sheet of > paper the transparency placed on copper. Pressing the iron, and slightly > moving it, I finally (sort of) succeeded in getting the toner on the > copper. Then the PCB was etched in ferric chloride, washed and dried. When > looking at a suitable angle, the photo is visible. > > First I thought of the UV-laquer, but mine had expired in 11/1995, so I > tried this direct laser method. My ferric chloride and the pieces of PCB > are from the same era. Ferric chloride was really exhausted, it took > something between two to three hours to get all the visible copper off. As > I did the etching outside, because ferric chloride stains everything badly, > the dish I used was not on level, and having very little of etchant, the > result is not even. But yesterday she had her 15th birthday, and was really > delighted of my gift, this try. > > Our art collective has the press for making intaglios, so I need to get a > sheet of copper plus other things, and hone my technique, to get the image > right and then everything else, to do an intaglio. > > best > > -matti > > ______________________________**_________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/**mailman/listinfo > -- ?Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work.? Gustave Flaubert From jean.daubas at wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 14 09:05:01 2013 From: jean.daubas at wanadoo.fr (Jean Daubas) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 11:05:01 +0200 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Loris, Truly sorry for this bad experience you had. Looking at Doug Fisher?s site, it seemed that rather a serious site and I would not have imagined this kind of behaviour... No luck for you! Alternative cheers from France, Jean From: Loris Medici Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:53 PM To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert O ?k, I've corresponded with Doug. Unfortunately I'm not ordering anything from him: despite placing an on-line order for a Dual MF Film Holder for V700 (w/o ANR glass) at his site, he tried to sell me the product w/o T-locks but with two? ANR glasses with considerable surcharge! (Naturally...) He was definitely not willing to ship the product as it is exactly advertised on the site. This is called bait-and-switching in my book; he seems like a good designer, but a really bad businessman (and/or webmaster)... Regards, Loris. _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From mail at loris.medici.name Wed Aug 14 15:11:07 2013 From: mail at loris.medici.name (Loris Medici) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 18:11:07 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF filmholder + ANR Insert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Probably it was a bad day for both of us / an isolated incident, never mind... I just bought two of these for TRY 70 / USD 36 (incl. shipment): http://shop.lomography.com/us/digitaliza-120-scanning-mask. (A special low price for Turkish billing / shipment addresses - I think prices are a little higher for other places...) They aren't built as well as Doug's products and not as functional (no variable height - I'll have to raise the holders by putting shims under them...) for sure, but they look practical enough and they definitely address my actual problem with Epson holders. Regards, Loris. 2013/8/14 Jean Daubas > Hi Loris, > > Truly sorry for this bad experience you had. Looking at Doug Fisher?s > site, it seemed that rather a serious site and I would not have imagined > this kind of behaviour... > No luck for you! > Alternative cheers from France, > Jean > > > From: Loris Medici > Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:53 PM > To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list > Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: OFF TOPIC: Betterscan Epson V Series Dual MF > filmholder + ANR Insert > O > ?k, I've corresponded with Doug. Unfortunately I'm not ordering anything > from him: despite placing an on-line order for a Dual MF Film Holder for > V700 (w/o ANR glass) at his site, he tried to sell me the product w/o > T-locks but with two? ANR glasses with considerable surcharge! > (Naturally...) He was definitely not willing to ship the product as it is > exactly advertised on the site. This is called bait-and-switching in my > book; he seems like a good designer, but a really bad businessman (and/or > webmaster)... > > Regards, > Loris. > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From mjkoskin at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 18:15:34 2013 From: mjkoskin at gmail.com (Matti Koskinen) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 21:15:34 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <520BC946.5090409@gmail.com> On 14.8.2013 10:29, raven erebus wrote: > I find that if you pre-heat the metal with the iron before you start the > laser printer transfer it works a lot better. I've only done this on solid > copper though. It worked remarkably well! I'm using an HP laserjet 5P to > print. I've heard that the newer laser printers don't work as well. > > Raven > Thanks Raven, yes, preheating is a must, found it out while trying. On the pages doing PCB's with laser, it's clearly stated. I found the transparencies are the best, although they say using some type of inkjet papers are best, but they need to be soaked long time to get rid of the paper. Of course I tried with HP Advanced; not only it ruined the copper-board, but stuck on my iron as well. Didn't have a sheet of paper between iron and the HP :-( I'm using HP LJ 1018, with an aftermarket cartridge. Do you create a specific halftone image, or just let the driver do the halftoning? And have you got rid of the horizontal lines laser printers sometimes create? I'm just about to do two cyanos, papers are almost dry, and I've used laser printer almost every digineg, fast, no drying or oiling. This is just guesswork, but as the laser neg is actually a halftone, I think it doesn't matter (if the toner blocks UV well) if I overexpose? tnx -matti From darkroommanager at cornell.edu Wed Aug 14 20:10:07 2013 From: darkroommanager at cornell.edu (Darkrooms, Department of Art) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 20:10:07 +0000 Subject: [Alt-photo] Film for digi negs Message-ID: Hello all, I stumbled across the following film today: http://www.squaredot.com/PRIC12.html It is considerably cheaper then pictorico. I have always used pictorico for digital negatives, but I am curious if anyone has tried this film. Thanks, Jennifer M. Gioffre Teaching Support Specialist Architecture Art and Planning Cornell University 120 Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 o: 607-255-4207 f: 607-255-3462 Jmg393 at cornell.edu Darkroommanager at cornell.edu AAPstore at cornell.edu From ravene at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 22:08:07 2013 From: ravene at gmail.com (raven erebus) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 15:08:07 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: <520BC946.5090409@gmail.com> References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> <520BC946.5090409@gmail.com> Message-ID: I had actually forgotten I made a tutorial... http://trollop.com/etching/etching.html It has pictures of my images and the resulting etch. I got the image close to what I wanted by thresholding in photoshop and then played around with the various printer settings until it printed nicely. I wanted to avoid that news paper look. The laser printer doesn't exactly print a half tone (round dots). It prints black or nothing. In otherwords it doesn't print gray scale. If you don't threshold your image you'll see spotty-ness that isn't exactly a halftone. The settings for the printer changes the handling of that computation. So I just printed with each setting and used the results I liked best. I haven't seen banding. That sounds like it might be specific to your printer? My laser printer is vintage 1995. If I had to guess... that's probably the key factor in making this work. I just used regular laser printer paper which is quite glossy. And after a soak came right off with a little gentle rubbing. With transparencies there's gum Arabic to deal with. I didn't try it... maybe heat doesn't melt it? Also I figured plastic plus iron would be bad news. I set the iron to the very hottest setting which on my iron was cotton. There's a product I was going to try called laser tran that is supposed to work great for this but I haven't tried it. http://lazertran.com/ After I transferred I did an aquatint using an airbrush. (I don't have access to one so I haven't actually done this in a couple years) best, Raven On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Matti Koskinen wrote: > On 14.8.2013 10:29, raven erebus wrote: >> I find that if you pre-heat the metal with the iron before you start the >> laser printer transfer it works a lot better. I've only done this on solid >> copper though. It worked remarkably well! I'm using an HP laserjet 5P to >> print. I've heard that the newer laser printers don't work as well. >> >> Raven > Thanks Raven, > > yes, preheating is a must, found it out while trying. On the pages doing PCB's with laser, it's clearly stated. I found the transparencies are the best, although they say using some type of inkjet papers are best, but they need to be soaked long time to get rid of the paper. Of course I tried with HP Advanced; not only it ruined the copper-board, but stuck on my iron as well. Didn't have a sheet of paper between iron and the HP :-( > > I'm using HP LJ 1018, with an aftermarket cartridge. Do you create a specific halftone image, or just let the driver do the halftoning? And have you got rid of the horizontal lines laser printers sometimes create? I'm just about to do two cyanos, papers are almost dry, and I've used laser printer almost every digineg, fast, no drying or oiling. > > This is just guesswork, but as the laser neg is actually a halftone, I think it doesn't matter (if the toner blocks UV well) if I overexpose? > > tnx > > -matti > > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From mjkoskin at gmail.com Wed Aug 14 23:02:56 2013 From: mjkoskin at gmail.com (Matti Koskinen) Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 02:02:56 +0300 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: try one In-Reply-To: References: <52074FC0.2010904@gmail.com> <520BC946.5090409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <520C0CA0.3090800@gmail.com> On 15.8.2013 1:08, raven erebus wrote: > I had actually forgotten I made a tutorial... > > http://trollop.com/etching/etching.html > It has pictures of my images and the resulting etch. > > I got the image close to what I wanted by thresholding in photoshop > and then played around with the various printer settings until it > printed nicely. I wanted to avoid that news paper look. > > The laser printer doesn't exactly print a half tone (round dots). It > prints black or nothing. In otherwords it doesn't print gray scale. If > you don't threshold your image you'll see spotty-ness that isn't > exactly a halftone. The settings for the printer changes the handling > of that computation. So I just printed with each setting and used the > results I liked best. I haven't seen banding. That sounds like it > might be specific to your printer? > > My laser printer is vintage 1995. If I had to guess... that's probably > the key factor in making this work. > > I just used regular laser printer paper which is quite glossy. And > after a soak came right off with a little gentle rubbing. > > With transparencies there's gum Arabic to deal with. I didn't try > it... maybe heat doesn't melt it? Also I figured plastic plus iron > would be bad news. > > I set the iron to the very hottest setting which on my iron was cotton. > > There's a product I was going to try called laser tran that is > supposed to work great for this but I haven't tried it. > http://lazertran.com/ > > After I transferred I did an aquatint using an airbrush. (I don't have > access to one so I haven't actually done this in a couple years) > > best, > Raven > Thanks, first I expected to get the newspaper-style image from printer, so my earlier tests were using bitmap diffusion dither settings, but then I just printed from PS directly to laser, and the result was truly nice greyscale image. My printer prints stochastic pattern, and the dots are even smaller than a single dot from PS bitmap, so making a negative and printing on a textured paper cyano or tempera, there are no visible dots. This of course depends on printer and its driver. Using an old laserjet 1100, which had only parallel port, I had to use usb-parallel port adapter, and printing from Mac the driver uses ghostscript as the raster driver, so the images were really coarse newspaper-style. But this newer (new, heh, they were about to dump it from my wife's work) and win7-driver, the results are great. I've been trying to find good settings for printing and transferring to copper. Ferric chloride must be bought directly, they don't mail it, so real etching must wait. But the tiny piece of PCB I still have, can be used over and over again, in the quest of getting toner right. My transparencies are especially for copiers and lasers, not suitable for inkjets, so I think they're just plain mylar without any coating. But I think I have somewhere some sort of paper you use, so I'll give it a try. Seeing your intaglios made my very jealous :-) best -matti From christinazanderson at gmail.com Sat Aug 17 18:02:48 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 12:02:48 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] bags, anyone? Message-ID: <2D251CF9-78D5-4A60-9652-FE866B4925C3@gmail.com> Dear All I have found my new favorite place, clearbags.com. They have those archival bags like Light Impressions sells/used to sell in ALL sizes and they are CHEAP! How did I not know about this site?? Workshop participant Doyle Thomas turned me onto them. They even make custom sizes!!! Here is the page for clearbags for photo: http://www.clearbags.com/bags/clear-bags Only caveat; bags are so cheap that shipping is as much as the bags themselves! Chris Christina Z. Anderson http://christinaZanderson.com/ From jefulton1 at comcast.net Sat Aug 17 21:28:28 2013 From: jefulton1 at comcast.net (Jack Fulton) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:28:28 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: bags, anyone? In-Reply-To: <2D251CF9-78D5-4A60-9652-FE866B4925C3@gmail.com> References: <2D251CF9-78D5-4A60-9652-FE866B4925C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll add to this for you on the Left Coast that another fine source if Redimat in Santa Rosa, CA. They have the poly bags and extremely good prices on mats, bulk mat prices of a variety of quality and will cut mats for you to any size if bought in bulk. Jack On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > Dear All > I have found my new favorite place, clearbags.com. They have those archival bags like Light Impressions sells/used to sell in ALL sizes and they are CHEAP! How did I not know about this site?? Workshop participant Doyle Thomas turned me onto them. They even make custom sizes!!! > > Here is the page for clearbags for photo: > http://www.clearbags.com/bags/clear-bags > > Only caveat; bags are so cheap that shipping is as much as the bags themselves! > > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > http://christinaZanderson.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From kerik at kerik.com Sat Aug 17 21:35:51 2013 From: kerik at kerik.com (Kerik Kouklis) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:35:51 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: bags, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <2D251CF9-78D5-4A60-9652-FE866B4925C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thumbs up for redimat! Just used them for precut mats for the first time. Saved a ton of work and very reasonable. -Kerik On Aug 17, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Jack Fulton wrote: > I'll add to this for you on the Left Coast that another fine source if Redimat in Santa Rosa, CA. They have the poly bags and extremely good prices on mats, bulk mat prices of > a variety of quality and will cut mats for you to any size if bought in bulk. > Jack > > > > > On Aug 17, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Christina Anderson wrote: > >> Dear All >> I have found my new favorite place, clearbags.com. They have those archival bags like Light Impressions sells/used to sell in ALL sizes and they are CHEAP! How did I not know about this site?? Workshop participant Doyle Thomas turned me onto them. They even make custom sizes!!! >> >> Here is the page for clearbags for photo: >> http://www.clearbags.com/bags/clear-bags >> >> Only caveat; bags are so cheap that shipping is as much as the bags themselves! >> >> Chris >> >> >> Christina Z. Anderson >> http://christinaZanderson.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From christinazanderson at gmail.com Sat Aug 17 21:51:19 2013 From: christinazanderson at gmail.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:51:19 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Film for digi negs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <260C07FA-04EE-4815-A964-69B93716BFDF@gmail.com> Hi Jennifer, I have used crystal clear, as it says below on that page, and if it is the same as the sheets above, it is not thick enough to hold the inks. I bought it through Photo Warehouse. Very very thin, and will also stretch in the printer and create off-register negatives. I used it successfully with black ink only and the Epson 2200 but once I moved to the 2400 on up, ink puddled or wiped off. Chris Christina Z. Anderson http://christinaZanderson.com/ On Aug 14, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Darkrooms, Department of Art wrote: > Hello all, > > I stumbled across the following film today: http://www.squaredot.com/PRIC12.html > > It is considerably cheaper then pictorico. I have always used pictorico for digital negatives, but I am curious if anyone has tried this film. > > Thanks, > Jennifer M. Gioffre > Teaching Support Specialist > > Architecture Art and Planning > Cornell University > 120 Tjaden Hall > Ithaca, NY 14853 > > o: 607-255-4207 > f: 607-255-3462 > Jmg393 at cornell.edu > Darkroommanager at cornell.edu > AAPstore at cornell.edu > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From rene at qx.net Sat Aug 17 23:23:33 2013 From: rene at qx.net (rene at qx.net) Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 19:23:33 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: bags, anyone? Message-ID: <282366c13e5e4094bab4ee1e31a65721.rene@qx.net> I use them. Rene >------- Original Message ------- >From : Christina Anderson[mailto:christinazanderson at gmail.com] >Sent : 8/17/2013 2:02:48 PM >To : alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org >Cc : >Subject : RE: [Alt-photo] bags, anyone? > >Dear All I have found my new favorite place, clearbags.com. They have those archival bags like Light Impressions sells/used to sell in ALL sizes and they are CHEAP! How did I not know about this site?? Workshop participant Doyle Thomas turned me onto them. They even make custom sizes!!! Here is the page for clearbags for photo: http://www.clearbags.com/bags/clear-bags Only caveat; bags are so cheap that shipping is as much as the bags themselves! Chris Christina Z. Anderson http://christinaZanderson.com/ _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From ravene at gmail.com Sun Aug 18 07:03:31 2013 From: ravene at gmail.com (raven erebus) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2013 00:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: bags, anyone? In-Reply-To: <2D251CF9-78D5-4A60-9652-FE866B4925C3@gmail.com> References: <2D251CF9-78D5-4A60-9652-FE866B4925C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: The other downside is that if you don't order $40 of stuff they charge you a fee. But I get all my bags from them. And they also sell moab digital paper though I don't think it's a particular steal. Raven On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Christina Anderson < christinazanderson at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear All > I have found my new favorite place, clearbags.com. They have those > archival bags like Light Impressions sells/used to sell in ALL sizes and > they are CHEAP! How did I not know about this site?? Workshop participant > Doyle Thomas turned me onto them. They even make custom sizes!!! > > Here is the page for clearbags for photo: > http://www.clearbags.com/bags/clear-bags > > Only caveat; bags are so cheap that shipping is as much as the bags > themselves! > > Chris > > > Christina Z. Anderson > http://christinaZanderson.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > -- ?Be regular and orderly in your life, so that you may be violent and original in your work.? Gustave Flaubert From darkroommanager at cornell.edu Mon Aug 19 14:57:29 2013 From: darkroommanager at cornell.edu (Darkrooms, Department of Art) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 14:57:29 +0000 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Film for digi negs In-Reply-To: <260C07FA-04EE-4815-A964-69B93716BFDF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Christina, Thank you for the info. I had a feeling that it would have problems. Best, Jennifer M. Gioffre Teaching Support Specialist Architecture Art and Planning Cornell University 120 Tjaden Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 o: 607-255-4207 f: 607-255-3462 Jmg393 at cornell.edu Darkroommanager at cornell.edu AAPstore at cornell.edu On 8/17/13 5:51 PM, "Christina Anderson" wrote: >Hi Jennifer, >I have used crystal clear, as it says below on that page, and if it is >the same as the sheets above, it is not thick enough to hold the inks. I >bought it through Photo Warehouse. Very very thin, and will also stretch >in the printer and create off-register negatives. I used it successfully >with black ink only and the Epson 2200 but once I moved to the 2400 on >up, ink puddled or wiped off. >Chris > >Christina Z. Anderson >http://christinaZanderson.com/ > >On Aug 14, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Darkrooms, Department of Art wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I stumbled across the following film today: >>http://www.squaredot.com/PRIC12.html >> >> It is considerably cheaper then pictorico. I have always used >>pictorico for digital negatives, but I am curious if anyone has tried >>this film. >> >> Thanks, >> Jennifer M. Gioffre >> Teaching Support Specialist >> >> Architecture Art and Planning >> Cornell University >> 120 Tjaden Hall >> Ithaca, NY 14853 >> >> o: 607-255-4207 >> f: 607-255-3462 >> Jmg393 at cornell.edu >> Darkroommanager at cornell.edu >> AAPstore at cornell.edu >> _______________________________________________ >> Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > >_______________________________________________ >Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sat Aug 24 21:14:19 2013 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 17:14:19 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] MIXING PVA FOR PT/PD COATING Message-ID: DEAR LIST For nearly 10 years I have used a very few drops of PVA in my pt/pd coating solution and gotten lovely, smooth coatings. I am now nearing the end of that first small bottle that I mixed all those years ago. I have plenty of PVA powder but I cannot seem to find the instructions of what % of solution I am supposed to mix. Anyone out there know how many grams in 100 ml of distilled water I should mix? Is it something like 4 g in 100 ml? CHEERS! BOB Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to live forever". Mahatma Gandhi "Earth" without "art" is just "Eh"! (Anonymous graffiti posted on Facebook) ?Madonne e fiori, trionfo eterno di giovent?!? from Mattinata Fiorentina by Antonella Ruggiero __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8724 (20130824) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From kakarott76 at hotmail.com Sat Aug 24 21:20:40 2013 From: kakarott76 at hotmail.com (Kurt Nagy) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 16:20:40 -0500 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: MIXING PVA FOR PT/PD COATING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Worst case if you don't get a good reply or figure it out, you could just mix until saturated and use that as a stock solution, watering that down as you test coats On Aug 24, 2013, at 4:14 PM, "BOB KISS" wrote: > DEAR LIST > > For nearly 10 years I have used a very few drops of PVA in my > pt/pd coating solution and gotten lovely, smooth coatings. I am now nearing > the end of that first small bottle that I mixed all those years ago. I have > plenty of PVA powder but I cannot seem to find the instructions of what % of > solution I am supposed to mix. > > Anyone out there know how many grams in 100 ml of distilled > water I should mix? Is it something like 4 g in 100 ml? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > > > Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ > > > > > "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to > live forever". Mahatma Gandhi > > > > "Earth" without "art" is just "Eh"! (Anonymous graffiti posted on Facebook) > > > > ?Madonne e fiori, trionfo eterno di giovent?!? from Mattinata Fiorentina by > Antonella Ruggiero > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 8724 (20130824) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo > From jorj at jorj.org Sat Aug 24 22:06:40 2013 From: jorj at jorj.org (Jorj Bauer) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:06:40 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: MIXING PVA FOR PT/PD COATING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps 10% w/v? http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/004QPu?start=10 -- Jorj On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:14 PM, "BOB KISS" wrote: > DEAR LIST > > For nearly 10 years I have used a very few drops of PVA in my > pt/pd coating solution and gotten lovely, smooth coatings. I am now nearing > the end of that first small bottle that I mixed all those years ago. I have > plenty of PVA powder but I cannot seem to find the instructions of what % of > solution I am supposed to mix. > > Anyone out there know how many grams in 100 ml of distilled > water I should mix? Is it something like 4 g in 100 ml? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > > > Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ > > > > > "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to > live forever". Mahatma Gandhi > > > > "Earth" without "art" is just "Eh"! (Anonymous graffiti posted on Facebook) > > > > ?Madonne e fiori, trionfo eterno di giovent?!? from Mattinata Fiorentina by > Antonella Ruggiero > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 8724 (20130824) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From clay at clayharmon.com Sun Aug 25 01:33:27 2013 From: clay at clayharmon.com (Website) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 19:33:27 -0600 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: MIXING PVA FOR PT/PD COATING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6257440B-2DAB-49F2-B45A-C4C6B298B3A0@clayharmon.com> I use polyvinyl ALCOHOL for a sizing agent. This is different than polyvinyl ACETATE, which is usually referred to as PVA. Which one were you using? Clay Sent from my handheld consumer electronic device On Aug 24, 2013, at 3:14 PM, "BOB KISS" wrote: > DEAR LIST > > For nearly 10 years I have used a very few drops of PVA in my > pt/pd coating solution and gotten lovely, smooth coatings. I am now nearing > the end of that first small bottle that I mixed all those years ago. I have > plenty of PVA powder but I cannot seem to find the instructions of what % of > solution I am supposed to mix. > > Anyone out there know how many grams in 100 ml of distilled > water I should mix? Is it something like 4 g in 100 ml? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > > > Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ > > > > > "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to > live forever". Mahatma Gandhi > > > > "Earth" without "art" is just "Eh"! (Anonymous graffiti posted on Facebook) > > > > ?Madonne e fiori, trionfo eterno di giovent?!? from Mattinata Fiorentina by > Antonella Ruggiero > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 8724 (20130824) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo From bobkiss at caribsurf.com Sun Aug 25 22:27:02 2013 From: bobkiss at caribsurf.com (BOB KISS) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 18:27:02 -0400 Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: MIXING PVA FOR PT/PD COATING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Jorj and everyone else who responded to my request about PVA. Jorj, the info at B&S did the trick. They sell 10% and recommend diluting it down to 2 or 3 % for use. I use so few drops and the last 100 ml batch lasted ne 9 years that I just put 2 g in 100 ml in my mag stirrer/heater and let it cook until it was clear. Works great! Thought you might like to know! Thanks again! Bob -----Original Message----- From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of Jorj Bauer Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 6:07 PM To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: MIXING PVA FOR PT/PD COATING Perhaps 10% w/v? http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/004QPu?start=10 -- Jorj On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:14 PM, "BOB KISS" wrote: > DEAR LIST > > For nearly 10 years I have used a very few drops of PVA in my > pt/pd coating solution and gotten lovely, smooth coatings. I am now nearing > the end of that first small bottle that I mixed all those years ago. I have > plenty of PVA powder but I cannot seem to find the instructions of what % of > solution I am supposed to mix. > > Anyone out there know how many grams in 100 ml of distilled > water I should mix? Is it something like 4 g in 100 ml? > > CHEERS! > > BOB > > > > > > Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/ > > > > > "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to > live forever". Mahatma Gandhi > > > > "Earth" without "art" is just "Eh"! (Anonymous graffiti posted on Facebook) > > > > ?Madonne e fiori, trionfo eterno di giovent?!? from Mattinata Fiorentina by > Antonella Ruggiero > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 8724 (20130824) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo _______________________________________________ Alt-photo-process-list | lists.altphotolist.org/mailman/listinfo __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 8724 (20130824) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com