cheers
-steve
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 16:03:36 -0500
From: "Bill Patterson (608) 263-4458" <WPATTERSON@ASAP.Bus.Wisc.Edu>
Subject: Re: developing tube?
To: alt-photo-process@vast.unsw.edu.au
I've appended the text of an article that I posted to rec.photo.darkroom
about using tubes and drums for sheet film to this message. Judy's original
question was about film washing, so I'll expand on how I wash.
I currently wash the film, as Jobo recommends, in the Expert drum. This does
a pretty good job of washing and also rinses out the drum and lift mechanism
so that it is ready for the next processing run. You wouldn't want some
residual fixer in the drum or path the developer for the next run has to go
through. Jobo also recommends removing the film from their drums before using
any agent like Photo Flo. It seems that the it is hard to wash off from the
drums and may interfere with chemicals like the E-6 first developer.
I remove the film from the drum and put it in a basket, which goes in a
Salthill film washer. I wash the film for a another few minutes, add some
Photo Flo, let it sit for 30 seconds and then put the basked in a Salthill
film dryer. The film washer and dryer will handle film up to 5x7 inches, but
I've only done 4x5 so far.
Before I bought my used Jobo system, I developed film using the Beyond the
Zone System (BTZS) Phil Davis designed tubes. I would fix for 1/2 of the
recommended time and then turn a dim light on and finish the fixing in trays.
Then I used hypo clearing agent in another tray, washed the negatives briefly
and put them in the Salthill film basket.
The film that I usually use is TMax-100, which has an anti-halation coating
that requires adequate fixing, hypo clearing agent, and washing to remove
properly. If you leave the film in a tube for all of the processing, the
coating does not get completely removed where the back of the film touches the
tube. This hasn't been a problem with the Jobo Expert drum. The film base
always comes out clear. I've heard that the cylinders in the Expert drum are
shaped so that the chemicals can get to the back side of the film.
I have Expert drums that will allow me to process up to 8x10 sheets of film.
I know that Jobo makes a drum that can be customized for larger sized film.
An insert is made to hold the film and then the film can be loaded in this
insert before being placed in the drum for processing.
The Darkroom Innovations ad in the current issue of View Camera magazine lists
some new larger tubes, but none of them are as large as Judy needs for her
film. I'm sure that the customized Jobo Expert drum would work, but it is
probably only an option if a Jobo processor is already available. I have
heard that some people manage to use the drums on a roller base, but they must
be rotating when you add the chemicals, so you would have to rig up something
using a funnel and some hose.
Salthill makes a Vortex Wash Tray that would work for washing only, but it is
fairly expensive. Luckily, I was fortunate enough to find my Salthill items
very reasonably priced as used equipment.
Bill Patterson (wpatterson@asap.bus.wisc.edu)
[Appended copy of news article follows]
In article <meyn-1212951809010001@bfcrmaciisi.stanford.edu>, meyn@loki.stanford
|>Some people recently wrote, that the Jobo Expert Drum were similar, but better
|>than the BZST tubes. What is the Jobo thing like ? Is it a machine or for
|>manual operation, more like a daylight tank?
|>JPM
|>
The BTZS tubes and the Jobo Expert drums both put the film in a similar
environment:
o The sheet film is held in a small cylinder with the emulsion
facing inward.
o The BTZS tubes are handled individually with individual caps and the
Jobo Expert drum holds a number of number of film cylinders around the
outside of the drum and has a common cap for the entire drum.
o You toss the BTZS tubes in a water bath to maintain the temperature and
the Jobo Expert drums allow the water in the processor to circulate
around the outside of the cylinders.
If you use the same amount of developer per sheet of film and use continuous
agitation with the BTZS tubes, then you should get very similar results with
both methods. Both will give you very consistent and even development of
negatives.
Fred Newman of Darkroom Innovations ((602) 488-5117) will tell you that you
should get very similar results using both systems when you do your film tests
using the Phil Davis BTZS method. My own testing has confirmed this. I have
a set of six BTZS 4x5 tubes as well as a Jobo Expert drum. I continue to
use the BTZS tubes for film testing because I can develop the five negatives
used by the Davis method using separate development times in one "run" using
the tubes. I can actually do a film test and determine the characteristics
of a film/developer combination in a couple of hours, just as Davis claims.
If you are doing only B&W developing, then the BTZS tubes work great. Since
each has a separate cap, they would be very inconvenient to use for processes
that have a lot of steps. I was interested in doing my own E-6 processing,
so I bought a used Jobo CPP-2 and added an Expert drum. I'm very happy with
the results that I'm getting and how well the Jobo works.
You can build your own "BTZS like" tubes using PVC pipe and I don't see why
they wouldn't work as well. I have read the article by David Kachel Darkroom
and Creative Camera Techniques where he advocates using open ended PVC pipe
cylinders instead of tubes. This method should also work well and has the
advantage of more ease of use with processes with many steps because you don't
have to deal with the individual caps. The Kachel designed tubes are very
similar to some tubes that I bought from a lab that I think used them in some
sort of dunk tank. They are open ended, have ribs to keep the film away
from the walls of the cylinder and the cylinder has slots in it for the
chemicals to get to the back side of the film.
Using the BTZS tubes (and I would imagine the Kachel tubes) you may have some
of the anti-halation coating on the backside of the film (against the drum)
that is not dissolved when you first remove the film from the tube. I usually
remove the film from the tube after one half of the fixing time and then use
hypo clearing agent and a good wash. This purple "stain" always goes away.
The negatives always come out of the Jobo drum without the "stain".
One big advantage of using the Jobo Expert drums is that you don't have to
get your hands in any of the chemicals. With the BTZS tubes, you most likely
(unless you use gloves) will be putting your hands in the chemicals used for
processing. Over the years, I've probably put my hands in chemicals too often
and I'm much more careful about it now.
In summary, I think that you can get good results using any of these methods.
There will be more manual labor involved with when the tubes or cylinders and
you may have to put your hands in the chemicals, but the initial investment
is obviously much less. If you want to use processes like E-6 that have more
steps, then the Jobo Expert drum system starts looking very attractive. If
you frequently have lots of negatives to process, then the Jobo is obviously
more efficient. If you are just starting out developing your own large format
negatives, then the tubes or cylinders are probably a good way to go. This is
the way that I got started and I've been able to transfer my film testing
results for use with the Jobo with Expert drum.
Darkroom Innovations sells the BTZS tubes and is also a Jobo distributer. I
am a happy customer of Fred's and I know that Jobo works very hard to support
their customers.
Bill Patterson (wpatterson@asap.bus.wisc.edu)
[Fred Newmans' Compuserve address is 73354,2425 (73354.2425@compuserve.com)
Ricke (Jobo)]
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