From: TERRY KING, 101522,2625
TO: INTERNET:AlbumenWks@aol., INTERNET:AlbumenWks@aol.com
DATE: 06/06/96 09:18
RE: Copy of: Re: Your Albumen Notes
Hello Doug
"Thanks for your response. The first part came to me directly, and the second
part came via the alt-process list. I don't know if you intended it this way,
but that's why I'm responding to you directly."
It is just that the Compuserve 'excerpt' button cuts me off half way through a
posting and I have to finish it through a different route. I am using a
different route this time so no carets.
"I really appreciate your teaching intent and the need to make a process
workable in some manner in that context. And, of course, any process must
evolve in order to remain relavant to each generation of working
photographers."
One important factor that I forgot to mention was that I stress to the students
that the way I teach it is not the only way and that they must go out to explore
for themselves. Fortunately most of them do not need to be told. My year long
alternative processes course runs on Saturdays at an 'adult' college which is
ten minutes walk away because it is convenient for me. My students are highly
qualified in their respective fields and often include lecturerers and
professional photographers and degree students from other institutions. They
come from all over the world. I learn a lot from them ! It's hard work because
they are very demanding but that is what makes it worthwhile.
"When I hear the term "albumen print," I immediately visualize the nineteenth
version, and, of course, that is where we began twenty years ago - trying to
replicate that version for our printings of the negatives of Atget,
Muybridge, Jackson, O'Sullivan, etc.
Of course objectives differ and one does what one can to achieve one's
objectives. I also make a point of getting students to study catalogues and
price lists and, wherever possible, to visit suppliers for themselves and to
seek out new ones. This is a very valuable part of the learning process. And I
do not need to tell you what a valuable part companies such as you own play in
spreading the word. (Can I have an up to date version of your catalogue so that
I can spread the word further :-) ).
At the time (1976), there were precious few who were working in any alternate
processes. Not only did we want to replicate the original version for
printing original negatives, it was important to our understanding the
history of photography in general to re-learn how prints came into existence,
and what they looked like when they were fresh. How else could we appreciate
what the audience's response might have been back then?"
Hear ! hear !
I suppose I am lucky. I have local junk shops that sell me albumen prints that
still retain the full range of tones and a few miles away we have the V & A with
it's reading room with a print collection that students can hold in gloved hands
and fully appreciate the beauty of the processes. I met a nice lady from
Nebraska there a few weeks ago who had spent the first two weeks of her vacation
there. When I started about the same time in gum printing there seemed to be no
books and no one to tell me. And even if I went back to contemporary sources I
found that what I was being told did not make sense in practical terms. So I had
to reinvent the wheel for myself. Perhaps I am not producing reproductions very
often, which it is important to be able to do, but using the processes so that I
and my students can use them as a basis for expressing our own creativity
whatever the limits of that may be. Both are important activities.
"It is gratifying that, even though our approaches are different, our
experience with certain aspects of the medium are similar.
Yes, printing a multigrade paper with split contrast can create a similar
tonal structure. I was limiting my comments to the basic nature of the media,
before any manipulations like split printing or masking."
I take the point. It was just that when i was demonstrating to some 'A level'
students what split grading could do, I almost felt tempted to take it up
myself.
"On the question of density ranges, I was not meaning to controvert anyone's
experience, and I take your comments to indicate that you generally concur
with our observations."
Yes
"To be clearer about what I meant: when we print a strip of POP under a
0.05-3.05 density step wedge and tone the strip in the standard
thiocyanate/gold toner, all of the lightest steps in the print show a little
tone, but virtually no separation. It looks like paper fog, but a truly
opaque patch on the step wedge will indeed produce a white patch on the
print. So what is the density range required for a full toned print? It
certainly is not anywhere near 3.00, its more like 1.80. This is where
densitometry and judgment part company."
This is a combination of the process and the negative. I can get a greater range
of tones onto the paper with photgravure than I can with a platinum print, but
from a positive with a density range of less than 1.0 but I can also get a full
range of ones with a carbon print where the negative has a density range of 2.8.
Incidentally Peter Marshall says he can get every step on the tep wedge onto the
POP. I would, for my own education, like to know the outcome of a comparative
test.
As to judgement versus densitometry, I once lined up some independent observers
and asked them which were blacker, platinum prints with a reflected D Max of
1.35 and some glossy silver gelatine prints with a D Max of 2.0 and over.
Without exception they chose the platinum.
"And I concur with you that Separation Negative 2 does quite well.
Unfortunately, it is scheduled to be discontinued this summer, following its
sisters, SepNeg 1 and Super-XX, to the grave. That is why we looked around
for a replacement. The Agfa P330p separation film is slow (ASA 20), but it
has no reciprocity failure until an indicated exposure of 300 seconds is
reached. Thus, in low light situations it will exposue faster than a 100 ASA
film after the latter's reciprocity failure is calculated. It is very fine
grained and very sharp, which makes it ideal also for negatives that one
might want to make enlarged duplicates of."
Thanks for that information. It looks as if we may be having to go back to dry
collodion plates putting the emulsion on with a tea pot.
Terry
PS Do you think that this almalgam of your reply and my comments should be
forwarded to the list.
Regards,
Doug Munson