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Re: Censorship issues



Bravo, Dave, and to Gary,
     I am one of those "right wing conservatives",too, that people on this
list and in America LOVE to vilify as the enemy, and stereotype to the nth
degree worse than right wings stereotype the liberals.  And yet I have
written a book on the nude, done a major project on the nude, and
photographed (gasp) fully unclothed men, too, as a female photographer (one
of them holding a 10 inch tape measure to very blatantly attack the
stereotype of the well endowed male that Mapplethorpe so very well
inculcated).  Furthermore I even drink upon occasion and smoke cigars! I
know, it's easier for us all to stereotype our "enemy", but let's quit
blaming whole segments of culture as being the bad guy and look to
individuals and even ourselves to blame.
     Furthermore, hasn't Judy Seigel said enough that there are no neutral
nudes?  Nudity is not neutral in the eyes of the artist and in the eyes of
the viewer.  How can we be neutral about exposure of who we are?  There is
always element of psychological risk, expressed and implied, in that.  If
people are outraged by your treatment of the body, if this controversial
image is, in fact, nude, is that always wrong on their part just because you
think your image is OK?  Usually outrage does not come from just nudity but
how the body is treated.
     There is a fine line between art and pornography, sometimes, and it
seems that eroticism is the area in between that is acceptably art still.
Where eroticism becomes pornography and is no longer acceptable as art is
very relative to the viewer, I will agree; in our culture, for instance,
having a "tumescent" male genitalia in an image is considered pornographic,
and since women usually don't openly display such tumescence it is not as
much a factor in images of her body.  It becomes pornography, for instance,
when the action that she takes implies such arousal, or when the meaning of
the photograph boils down to penetration.  These are such vast
generalizations that I hate to even say them because there are always
exceptions, but I would venture a guess that as artists I kinda think we are
in a closer margin of what we may consider pornography than the population
as a whole.  So post your image to this group.
     And furthermore, if you are afraid of putting your image on a web page
accessed by this photo group, who are not forced to peek at it but choosing
to do so, I really am worried about the content of said image that even you
are having misgivings about it.  You've got Mapplethorpe's whip up the butt
already in public domain; are you dismembering bodies or something? Heck
Witkin's been simulating that for years.  I can only guess it is homoerotic,
because you certainly wouldn't go the child pornography route because that
is not politically correct even with you liberals (I hope you realize my
labeling you is a joke).
     Ohhhhh, it must be Monday morning and I am avoiding going to work...
Chris

> "Neutral images"?!!  Are these really photographs with no intent, no
heart,
> or no soul?  If so, what's the point?  Why not just train your pet monkey
to
> snap the shutter?>
> I can only surmise that your 'blame the viewer' attitude is a feeble
cop-out
> to cover a lack of talent and an unwillingness to stand behind your work.
> Have you signed that release of liability yet?  As a fellow photographer,
I
> take responsibility for (and pride in) the reactions viewers have to my
> work.>
> Speak for yourself, but I am one of many artists who NEVER has to
> "constantly legitimize" my work as being art rather than pornography on
the
> internet.  If you fear that your work could be illicitly copied and then
> presented as pornography, isn't it reasonable to assume that it IS
> pornography (at least in the minds of some)?  We're all mature adults here
> Gary (at least I think we are ;-) ), so why not post your 'controversial'
> photo to a website?  Better yet, why not post all your exhibition photos?
> Wouldn't a pre-exhibition critique from your friends at alt-photo be
> helpful?  Wouldn't you like to prove me wrong?
> Best regards from Big Wonderful Wyoming,
> Dave Rose AKA Cactus Cowboy
> BTW - It may surprise some on this list, but I'm a "right-wing
conservative"
> who actually likes nude photography (and supports freedom of expression).
>
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