From: Robert W. Schramm (schrammrus@hotmail.com)
Date: 08/22/02-02:36:38 PM Z
"faggots" at the time meant what the term "gay" means today. I am taking
your ???? seriously.
Bob Schramm
>From: Claudia Lorenz <clorenz@telusplanet.net>
>Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>Subject: Re: Warning: photographer in training, please reduce speed ahead.
>Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:58:07 -0600
>
>faggots???
>
>can someone remind me what the purpose of this list is?
>
>Claudia
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Judy Seigel" <jseigel@panix.com>
>To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
>Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:45 AM
>Subject: Re: Warning: photographer in training, please reduce speed ahead.
>
>
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Tillman Crane wrote:
> >
> > > my teaching philosophy is..
> > >
> > > Everything has been done..but it doesn't count until its been done by
>you.
> > > By mastering your craft and stealing from the best, your own vision
> > > and ideas will emerge
> > >
> > > Just do what you want and eventually the rest of the world will catch
> > > up with you. If you are always following or finding trends your own
> > > voice will be lost..
> >
> > I think I attributed these comments to Jon -- sorry Tillman -- tho maybe
> > they were his, too. Anyway, well said.... ESPECIALLY for students. I
> > used to try convincing students depressed because their teachers were
> > insisting they come up with their own "coherent body of work," a
>finished
> > theme, project or style, when that wasn't what they felt ready or eager
>to
> > do. I tried to assure them that this was absurd over-reaching for the
>ego
> > of the teacher to show they were teaching "professional level." School
>IMO
> > is SUPPOSED to be a time for experiment and trial, not for turning out
> > (only or mostly) polished work, which of course closes off so much else.
> > Better to have it ragged, exploratory and learning.
> >
> > I think I should add that my own experience with the cutting remarks of
> > teachers long ago was not typical of what I've seen since then.
>Certainly
> > at Pratt both as a student and later as teacher I sensed a great bond of
> > camaraderie and support, at times perhaps excessive (IMO)... There were
> > exceptions, of one teacher in particular who wanted students to work in
> > their style, but this was NOT the rule. And I myself never heard or
>heard
> > of any teacher saying "that's been done."
> >
> > Plus of course as someone pointed out, it's the responsibility of the
> > teacher, through intelligent presentation of "current critical
>concepts,"
> > or a course so conceived to give the student that info & let them choose
> > accordingly.
> >
> > My own solution to this was simple. At the end of the semester I shot a
> > couple of rolls of the strongest student work & incorporated it into a
> > couple of carousels of "history of non -silver" which I showed at the
>end
> > of the first class (after showing them the gram scale and describing
> > graphically what would happen to those who didn't empty their trays, or
> > smoked in class.)
> >
> > The history began with Talbot, Bayard, Cameron, the Pictorialists (taken
> > from books and a history series out of MoMA), & continued with the
> > "moderns," Betty Hahn, Robert Fichter, Darryl Curran, Christopher James,
> > etc., but over the years most current art from "the books" was replaced
>by
> > work of former students... It was probably stronger and it meant much
>more
> > to them to see what their own schoolmates had done, some of them still
> > visible or known on campus.
> >
> > My course was a required course (tho I told them & told them it should
>be
> > elective) and in the early days gum, for instance, was considered
>arcane,
> > obscure, and, um, only faggots print gum. Seeing stunning prints by
>their
> > predecessors, some known to be adequately "virile" (whatever their
> > affective preference) was a marvelous first step in breaking down the
> > barrier. Later of course the processes, especially gum, had gotten
> > trendier, and even the jock types were interested at the outset.
> >
> > So don't take my comments about Shannon's teachers possibly doing
>students
> > a favor to turn them off the field to mean I approve of their attitude.
> > (And I certainly wouldn't say that about "working class kids" just
>trying
> > to get a BA, as she now describes them.... rather than kids with the
> > notion that photography is a fun job & you get to sleep with the
>models.)
> > It occurs to me that this kind of thing might be a difference between
> > "good" schools & not so good -- tho that's another topic.
> >
> > In any event, that's NOT teaching. Teaching is you expose them to
>concepts
> > without heavy breathing, in the normal course of discussion -- you
>mention
> > in a matter-of-fact way that this work is along the lines of so & so's
> > who's showing at the thus & such gallery, or has a new book out, why do
>we
> > "like" (or not like) it & what do we think of the differences. Then
>they
> > are horrified or delighted & say or don't say, why they always wanted to
> > do that & choose or muddle through accordingly... But for a teacher to
> > try to persuade a student to work or not work in a given style is the
> > equivalent of a driving teacher teaching them to drive drunk. I mean a
> > teacher sensing an affinity directs the student to study the work it's
> > related to or derived from. To simply say "it's been done --" frankly
> > Shannon, are you sure you don't exaggerate?
> >
> > There's also the fact, I'd say guarantee, that by the time a teacher has
> > taken his/her schtick to a tenured position it's already passe (DONE &
> > DONE!) or for sure will be by graduation. I also found that little
> > education about styles (only major outlines) had to come from me --
> > students picked it up by looking at the work on the wall for class crits
>&
> > from magazines, gotten from the library or otherwise & avidly shared. It
> > was amazing how much came in by osmosis -- even if I tried to keep it
>out,
> > I couldn't !
> >
> > In fact my own experience as student AND teacher is that most of what a
> > student learns in school is from fellow students, in small casual even
> > invisible ways they teach each other... by example, comment, question,
>or,
> > like Picasso says, theft.
> >
> > (And that, BTW [another digression] is why you get an MFA !!! But it has
> > to be a "good" school, otherwise it's just another nervous breakdown
> > waiting to be born.)
> >
> > Of course since I was teaching a process course my responsibility was
> > technique. I could afford the luxury of reticence about style. But the
> > kids were VERRRRRY savvy, and often more aware of hotshots & trends than
> > the teachers. I myself would never have said "this is bad," meaning
> > aesthetically. I might say this is a MESS, you are undercutting your
>own
> > idea with the execution, and invite class comments about reason for the
> > mess (or even for success of the mess)...but what is the point in
>shaming
> > a student for lack of talent or wit?
> >
> > Actually, I tried not to grade on talent, which they were born or not
>born
> > with & couldn't take credit for. I tried to grade on effort... and,
> > surely there's not a teacher in the world who hasn't seen the class
> > "dummy" hang in, burrow away, struggle and suffer, and whoa, turn into a
> > butterfly (or fill in your own metaphor from nature).
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Check out my web page at:
also look at:
http://www.wlsc.wvnet.edu/www/pubrel/photo.html
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