From: Larry Roohr (lrryr@attbi.com)
Date: 10/14/02-08:01:45 AM Z
There is a lot of variation reported between desktop printers of the same
model as far as paper advance accuracy and other things that affect defects
you can see on Pictorico. Some can be good and others terrible.
The difference between my 1160 at 1440 dpi and my C80 at 2880 dpi stuck out
like a sore thumb on Pictorico without a loupe, and showed easily on
palladium prints. Gum prints on textured paper like Rives didnt show the
difference. And, even the C80 had defects that were visible in high key skin
tones, once I saw them, even though slight and not a problem for other
images, they were like a burr under a saddle. I ended up with the 1280 and
the Imageprint RIP (pricey, $500) which has an improved dither pattern over
the epson driver.
The Epson dye inks seem to have good UV opacity as do the pigment inks.
The Epson pigment inks dry just fine on Pictorico, the third party inks do
not and need the overspray.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Seigel [mailto:jseigel@panix.com]
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:42 AM
To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
Subject: Re: Digital negs from pigment printers?
Hi Mark,
Thank you very very much for that description. It makes a bit clearer
what I'm trying to do. That is, make a populist, or relatively low key
"casual" negative. I don't say "amateur," because that word is so
relative, and the agony endured with "learning the curve" seems cruel &
unusual for amateur. Still, compared to what you describe, many of us are
in that space.
Now, though I hesitate to ask, still, how could I not -- how much does
this wonder cost?
As for the boiling water -- that's been one of the drawbacks to the 1160
negative... if you talk over it (notice I don't say "cry"), you risk blob,
because one teeny drop of spray melts it. But I think that was only on a
thin vellum, where the ink sat on surface of the paper. On the Pictorico,
for instance, not a problem -- tho the Pictorico surface is fragile in
other ways.
As for dpi, frankly, I doubt that with one of these emulsions not printed
on the hardest, smoothest paper you could tell the difference between 720
and 1440 dpi -- unless you got your eyeglasses re-prescriptioned, which
I've been meaning to do for a couple of years. But I think that would
anyway be in close up -- if the print is large it won't be viewed from
close up. More important to the general effect, it seems to me, at least
at my current level, is getting the "curve" right. If that looks right, I
think all kinds of other stuff gets a pass.
Meanwhile, thanks again -- not least for blowing your cover as just folks.
Judy
On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 Ender100@aol.com wrote:
> The 10000 prints 44" wide and with a RIP it prints as long as the roll of
> paper, I believe...so maybe 50 feet? It prints on a variety of surfaces
and
> even a thicker foam core backed paper, since it has a straight through
paper
> path. It prints very fast and each cartridge holds a bucket of ink
hehehehe
> It has some other nice features too... a laser that checks the ink flow
and
> if it detects that one of the jets is clogs it stops and cleans it. It's
a
> very heavy duty printer and the paper handling is great... a vacuum system
> assists the holding of the paper... I have run large sheets of rice paper
> through it. I wouldn't run 1/4 inch plywood through it though. It also
has
> a way to adjust the number of passes when printing and you can set it to
hold
> the print for some substrates to dry before it drops it on the carpet...
> actually it has a nice basket to catch the big stuff. The trailer hitch
is
> optional. I just moved mine halfway across the country in a semi and it
> worked just fine after all that bouncing. I just unplugged it and we put
it
> on the original skid and styrofoam cradle. I didn't even remove the
> cartridges. I decided not to tow it with the trailor hitch option through
> the mountains.
>
> I am not sure you could see the difference between 1440 and 2880 with the
> naked eye... but you could with a loupe. You probably currently have a
> printer that prints at 1440...how does it look?
>
> The Epson pigment inks come out dry to the touch on Pictorico—
immediately.
> An old fashioned hair dryer? You mean the kind that has a bowl that fits
> down over your head? There is no need for a hair dryer.... I like to let
my
> hair air dry anyway.
>
> I don't have problems with the pigment inks drying on anything. I tested
> them on a sheet of Epson Premium Photo Semigloss paper once by putting the
> just finished print under a faucet and the ink did not run...then I turned
on
> the hot water..still no run....then I rubbed it with my finger and still
no
> run.... so then I ripped it in half and put it in a skillet of boiling
> water....it ran a little, but not much. I don't boil my prints very often
> anyway... once in a while I saute them with a touch of garlic... but that
> depends on the content.
>
> Pictorico clear film comes in 8.5 x 11, 13 x 19, and rolls that are 17" x
66'
> and 24" x 66'. You have to be sure to print on the right side of the film
> that has the ceramic coating. There is a notched corner to help you
remember
> which side. It's the dull side.
>
> The epson pigment inks work so well because the tiny particles of pigment
are
> encapsulated in some sort of magic stuff... maybe that is what she means
by a
> "crystal".
>
> Is a dye based ink more transparent than a pigment based ink? I don't
know.
> I wish I did know something about that.
>
> Would you like a step tablet or something else made on Pictorico with
pigment
> inks to test?
>
> I haven't sprayed damp ink. I think people who are using some pigment
> inksets other than the Epson inkset are having to do this.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Mark Nelson
>
>
> In a message dated 10/13/02 11:56:10 PM, jseigel@panix.com writes:
>
> <<
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2002 Ender100@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Judy,
>
> > I have been using the 10000 with pigment inks (there is also a dye ink
> > version option for the 10000) with Pictorico film and it comes out of
the
> > printer nice and dry. I don't have to use any fixative spray.
>
> Does the pigment ink tend to stay wet on the Pictorico? What about good
> old fashioned hair dryer?
>
> > <<The Epson lady hazarded the opinion that the "crystal inks" would
> > be unsuitable for negatives as actual crystals would sit on the paper
and
> > disrupt transmission.>>
>
> > That's an interesting statement for her to make. Don't we kinda want
the
> ink
> > to disrupt the light?
>
> I refrained from going there, figuring this was beyond the lady's area of
> expertise, but I thought her meaning might be that one crystal, being more
> opaque than dye, would give as much density as a layer of several
> crystals, therefore nuance would be lost.
>
> > I think if I were testing any printer for digital negatives, I would
start
> > first with Pictorico film and hope the ink dried on it. If not, you
might
> > have to let it dry for a day and then spray with a fixative.
>
> You spray a damp ink?
>
> > Someone on this list mentioned that they were making negatives on
Pictorico
> > clear film with an Epson 2200 and Ultrachrome inks. The 2200 has a
smaller
> > (I think 3 picoliter) variable dot size and prints at 2880 x 1440. It
> should
> > give very smooth negatives. (for inkjet)
>
> Have you -- or anyone -- compared a print from negative at 2880 dpi to one
> at 1440 dpi in a hand-coated emulsion? Could you see a difference with
> the naked (pardon the expression) eye?
>
> And about the 10000, that's the one that prints 36 inches wide... or???
> >>
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : 11/14/02-02:40:26 PM Z CST