From: Kate Mahoney (kateb@paradise.net.nz)
Date: 10/18/03-11:26:51 PM Z
Absolutely Judy, "art" is o.k. but piano legs are rude!!!!!!! Naked children
coyly posed are fine but real naked children going about their business is
obscene....I wonder if Sally mann would have got so much flak if she had
titled the photos differently?????
Kate Mahoney
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Seigel" <jseigel@panix.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Neo-Pictorialism, sally mann
>
> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Kate Mahoney wrote:
>
> > "but bare children
> > > > in everyday life or
> > > > frolicking in the woods - I don't think so......."
> >
> > This only referred to the upper and middle class British Victorian
milieu -
> > not any other. And my children were pretty keen on nakedness when we
lived
> > somewhere warm...here in the south of New Zealand nakedness is much more
> > life-threatening...I think it's all a matter of climate!
> > Kate Mahoney
>
>
> I suspect it's as much if not more an issue of "real life" vs. "art."
> For instance this afternoon I moved a pile of papers on the table and
> uncovered the American Annual of Photography and Photographic Times
> Almanac for 1901 with the aforementioned DeMachy's.
>
> Leafing through I found:
>
> page 57, Naked boy standing in the woods, about 14 years old, title is
> "Listening" by Herbert A. Hess. He's turned about 3/4 away from us, but
> has a really cute ass... why he's standing hand on hip and "listening" is
> anyone's guess, but he looks about as silly, posed, and uncomfortable as
> possible.
>
> page 93, This is the first of the 2 Demachy's -- naked girl about 9 I'd
> say, lying prone in a cloud of chiffon which hides zip. She looks up
> coyly, one foot cocked. Title is "Innocence." Right.
>
> page 147, This is a brownish repro by "The Albertype co of Brooklyn" of a
> Gertrude Kasebier titled "Mother & Child." The mother bending down behind
> the child holds both her hands. A sign of Kasebier's genius IMO is the
> full frontal nudity of perhaps 4 year old girl looking wholesome, natural
> and full of life.
>
> page 206, Six boys about 10 to 14 splash in a river, one of them in
> underpants, the others naked, but either waist deep in water or facing
> away from us. Signed "Wolfgang." A purely routine staged shot, not
> especially stupid, tho hardly "art."
>
> page 217, Looks like 4 of the same boys, except this one is titled "In
> Arcadia" & is by Herbert A. Hess. They're naked except one is draped with
> a fur pelt of some kind, 3 have weird headresses of leaves, one plays a
> pipe of some sort, and all (discreetly non-frontal) sit of lie face down
> in the mud of the river bank looking EXCRUCIATINGLY miserable &
> uncomfortable.
>
> page 222, This is the other Demachy, also a lunette shape,the same girl
> sans chiffon, semi-prone, knees up, discreetly hiding you know what,
> titled "study of a child."
>
> page 256, Probably a two or 3-year old, mother naked, on hands and knees
> on a shag rug, side view, by W. Blackburn.
>
> In the back of the book ads, photograph of a bas relief of naked nymph
> type with garlands and 2 cherubs, one naked, the other pulling up his
> skirt... (don't ask me, I didn't do it). Ad for The Austin Engraving Co.
>
> Judy
>
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