Re: zone system and large format film

I think Etienne hit on something here vis-a-vis the 'Zone System'
terminology versus sensitometric terminology. A lot of people have a
lot invested in the whole arcane language of Zone-ism.

The confusion creeps in because people began to interchangeably use
the 'Zone' terminology to mean any or all of (take your pick) subject
luminance range, negative density range and print density range.

The zone system originally was intended to somehow make it easier for
the average person to understand how to map a particular subject
luminance range to a particular negative density range and finally to
a final print reflection density range.

I think if you are going to want real control over the whole process,
it is probably better to just suck it up and learn some basic
sensitometry rather than trying to slog your way through the
imprecise language that has become commonly used by classic Zone
practitioners. It think most Zone approaches are akin to trying to
teach basic physics without calculus. It can be done, but is one
whole hell of a lot easier to teach and understand if you just go
ahead and accept the fact that a little calculus is needed.

But back to the subject at hand. Most modern variable contrast silver
gelatin papers have exposure scales that vary between about 0.6 logD
and 1.4-1.5 logD. This translates to a very wide latitude in negative
density ranges and makes much of the hand wringing over expansion and
contraction an exercise in creative anxiety in my opinion. Even alt
processes with some method of contrast control such as palladium will
allow one to print negatives with density ranges from 1.3 logD to
1.9-2.0 logD. The slop factor is pretty nice to have, and can
simplify life if you choose to use it.

two cents

Clay

On Sep 29, 2005, at 8:49 AM, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:

> Thanks George, Steve, Etienne, and David for your answers! I knew
> this list would pull through for me.
>
> I should have made myself clear here, David. Yes, I do meter
> shadowss to Zone III, and let the highlights fall where they may.
> I have been using the Zone VIII for highlights. If it doesn't fall
> there, either too low or too high, I address it by development N+
> or N-. That's a given.
>
> However, my question was if modern papers (I'm tallking straight
> print, filter 2, condenser enlarger) are able to handle the zone
> III to VIII without burning in, or have most of you chosen to go
> with a tighter zonal range? That would affect my dev time to start
> my N- one zone lower. Steve answered that one--test :) George,
> too--5 stops seems to be his range.
>
> I know I can address this through filtering, but I am more
> interested in the actual capability of modern papers given a
> standard 2 filter, so it is a theoretical question as well as a
> practice one, too.
>
> I think Etienne answered my Minor White question if I may recap:
> first of all, Minor White didn't get it. Second, in practice
> Etienne is using lower filters and a denser neg. Third, the dmin
> and dmax of papers hasn't changed, but the curve could have. And
> George is using a denser tonal range, too (George, I assume you
> meant III to VII, not VI?).
>
> I printed a Stouffers on my paper of choice, at every filter to see
> if the amount of stops (zones) a paper can express changes with
> filter, and that was a very interesting experiment--not necessarily
> logical. Then I toned some in selenium--Forte split tones
> incredibly in 1:9...
>
> Keep on talking...the more info the merrier. Altho I am offline
> now for a few days...
> Chris
>
> From: "davidhatton" <davidhatton@superonline.com>
>
>> Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> When you all are out in the field, do you generally place your
>>> shadows on Zone III and highlights on Zone VII or Zone VIII??
>>>
>> Hi Christina,
>> You can't do that. You can only select one zone then let the
>> others fall where they may based on that selection. The phrase
>> often used is 'important detail' in the scene. Modify your
>> selection of zone by developing the negative appropriately (either
>> to expand or compress the zones to fit your 'vision'.
>> I know, grandmother, eggs etc., but I hope this helps :?)
>> David H
>>
>
>
>
Received on Thu Sep 29 08:11:04 2005