Re: Glyoxal?

  I wish I'd kept my test samples. I think I used them for some other
test later, as I'm prone to after I'm done with a test. But it's
probably worth noting here that I sized four pieces of Fabriiano
Artistico Extra-white nearly a year ago and kept them in a drawer for
months, shuffling them so all got Two different concentrations of
glyoxal, rinsed and not rinsed. After six or eight months all four of
them showed no yellowing whatever, and were indistinguishable (in
color, that is; they did have that coarse open surface that that
paper gets after getting wet) from the same paper right out of the box.

So when I started sizing Arches bright white with glyoxal, a month or
two into that test, I didn't worry about yellowing, but the Arches
bright white did yellow, although as I've explained, the ivory color
goes away when the paper gets wet. I tried last week to scan three
pieces of paper: Arches bright white new, the same paper with
glyoxal, and the same paper after gum printing, to show how the
glyoxal ivory color disappears in the gum soak, but the difference
between the ivory and the two whites is subtle and just didn't show
up on the scan; all three looked the same, and I didn't have time to
fiddle with it, so I gave up. But the whites on my prints, for
example, where there should be paper white, are pristine white, not
a touch of ivory to them.

There was a discussion here a year or two ago where many people
chimed in to say that they don't get the ivory color with glyoxal, or
they rinse and don't have a problem, so it's certainly not a
universal observation, even with the same papers. It just goes to
show that no one person's tests should be taken for much, and rather
than paying much attention to anyone's tests, you should do your own
and find out what works for you.
Katharine

On Jan 16, 2006, at 7:15 AM, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:

> Yves,
> Pretty soon my website will be up, and yesterday I took all my glyoxal
> samples of paper, scanned them, cut and pasted a square of each
> paper in a
> grid to show the varying shades of ivory from very pale to
> unacceptable
> brown that I got with glyoxal sized paper. It is really fascinating.
>
> I hope you all appreciate this one little image because it was a
> pain in the ass to make! 15 scans for one lousy image...
>
> The one paper that was acceptable with glyoxal was the rinsed right
> after
> hardening Fabriano Soft Press. There was no Fabriano Hot Press
> paper that
> was acceptable. Cold Press was in between.
>
> My variables I manipulated were Fabriano cold, hot, and soft
> press. Rinsing
> and not rinsing. Light and no light. Air and no air. My water
> supply was city water in SC, not well water like here in MT.
>
> Who knows what can be made of it all--rinsing did not work for
> Fabriano HP either, so my guess is that glyoxal yellowing is very
> paper dependent, coupled with some other factor--probably amount of
> glyoxal used as Ryuji has suggested. I used 25ml to a liter. So
> if you are not using hot pressed Fabriano you may be OK.
>
> My problem with sizing outdoors, and hence tray hardening, is that
> means I can't do it very often. Thus brush sizing with a thermos
> is the way to go for me. I personally like Kerik Kouklis'
> suggestion to add drops of formalin in each 10ml of sizing brushed
> onto a sheet of paper. But then again, I only use glut now so I
> doubt if I will try it anytime soon.
>
> I had no idea glut was in our capsules we swallow! IInteresting
> factoid.
>
> To answer two of your questions, glut is very permanent, never had
> to resize after the first time. And completely colorless.
>
> The information I am lacking on glut, really, is its use on other
> papers aside from Fabriano, so at this point I am a one trick pony
> as far as sizing for gum is concerned.
> Chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yves Gauvreau" <gauvreau-
> yves@sympatico.ca>
> To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Glyoxal?
>
>
>
>> Hi Dave et all,
>>
>> one thing (amoung many) that I don't understand, I found a paper on
>> gelatin
>> where I read that both formalin and glut are use to harden gel
>> capsule
>> amoung other things. We eat this stuff all the time and yet
>> manipulating
>> it
>> is harzardous. From what I can figure out, when either hardener
>> are use
>> such
>> that all of it get cross linked it would seem that from then on it
>> is no
>> longer a healt hazard. If this interpretation is correct, would
>> this mean
>> that all we need to do is to find the proper concentration needed
>> to cross
>> link the gelatin properly for our purpose and with proper care and
>> safety,
>> after that we should be ok???
>>
>> I read in this paper that we can cook gelatine at around 500 F and
>> this
>> causes polymerisation could this be useful???
>>
>> I have a few more question on this, one is about the color, I'd
>> like to
>> know
>> amoung the various hardener we can use which (if any) would be
>> colorless???
>>
>> What about permanance, is there one of these that is more
>> "permanent" then
>> the others???
>>
>> Are there some process that are sensitive to sizing in terms of
>> quantity
>> (thickness) RH and PH???
>>
>> Thanks
>> Yves
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave Rose" <cactuscowboy@bresnan.net>
>> To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: Glyoxal?
>>
>>
>>
>>> No. I would never use formalin indoors, even in very small
>>> amounts. As
>>> long as it's above freezing and the wind isn't blowing too hard,
>>> plan to
>>> harden your paper outside.
>>>
>>> Dave in Wyoming
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Loris Medici" <loris.medici@altinyildiz.com.tr>
>>> To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 4:59 AM
>>> Subject: RE: Glyoxal?
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I presume "took it outside" suggestion is when you harden in
>>> trays. I
>>> > assume it would be safe to use formalin indoors when using a
>>> very small
>>> > amnt. - such as brush sizing. (Think of 100ml %3 gelatin
>>> solution +
>>> > 1.5ml formalin) Am I correct here?
>>> >
>>> > TIA,
>>> > Loris.
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Judy Seigel [mailto:jseigel@panix.com]
>>> > Sent: 14 Ocak 2006 Cumartesi 05:32
>>> > To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>>> > Subject: Re: Glyoxal?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Personally, if I wasn't using glut I would go to formalin before
>>> > > glyoxal.
>>> > > It's worked for centuries--well, 1 1/2 centuries.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Where do you get formalin, Chris? In NYC you need a doctor's
>>> > prescription, or maybe a mortician in the family. I can get the
>>> > former,
>>> >
>>> > if not the latter, but don't because I find it so painful to use
>>> > indoors
>>> > &
>>> > don't like outdoors in winter. Plus, as I've said probably too
>>> many
>>> > times, glyoxal cleared better (for me, anyway).
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > J.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Received on Mon Jan 16 11:19:43 2006