Re: sodium citrate, ammonium citrate, bleeding of borders

Oh pooh, Roger! I threw away the jar. I knew I should've kept it.

I got it from Tri-Ess when it was in business, but since they closed I threw
away the catalog, too, so I can't even check back. But if someone has an old
catalog of TriEss it would be in there. I know it was written on the label,
anyway.
I had no idea there were three types!
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "permadocument" <info@permadocument.be>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: sodium citrate, ammonium citrate, bleeding of borders

> Dear Chris,
>
> Can you tell us what sodium citrate you used; monosodium (pH= 3,4-4,0),
> disodium (pH=5,0) or trisodium (pH=7,5-9,0)?
> Thanks,
> Roger
>
> --
> Roger Kockaerts
> Permadocument - pH7
> Rue des Balkans, 7
> B-1180 Brussels
> Tel.:32-2-347 66 76
> Fax: 32-2-344 43 04
> TVA: BE 0438 246 889
> web page: <http://www.permadocument.be>
>
>
> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:09:20 -0600, "Christina Z. Anderson"
> <zphoto@montana.net> said:
>> Well, a kiss for Bob Kiss--
>> I tried the sodium citrate and presto, no bleeding of borders.
>>
>> However, since I ran out of Platine and my order isn't coming thru
> for a
>> week, I had switched to Cranes Cover/Platinotype. Therefore, I
> wondered
>> if
>> the reason for no bleedoff was the paper and not the developer.
>>
>> I decided to be fair to am citrate and bit the bullet, mixed 'em both
> up
>> and
>> today printed side by side 12 prints, half developed in sodium
> citrate
>> and
>> half in ammonium citrate. These are all my results for anyone who
> cares,
>> and I would LOVE if anyone chimed in with different results before I
> go
>> and
>> accept it as gospel:
>>
>> As I think Eric and Sam said sodium is warmer than ammonium--it has a
>> yellower tone to it than ammonium which is redder. Hard to see
> unless
>> side
>> by side and you scrutinize.
>>
>> Sodium is a titch less contrasty, too.
>>
>> Ammonium is a bit faster--printing less than 1/3 stop faster, though,
>> probably 1/6-1/4 stop by my eyeball calcs--in other words, on a 31
> step
>> tablet it wasn't a full step.
>>
>> NOW (ta da) about the bleeding of borders, My am citrate is always
>> darkened
>> with metal; since it was all I used I didn't think anything of it.
>> HOWEVER,
>> when I developed all these prints today in sodium citrate, the
> developer
>> stayed clear. No bleeding of borders. And the Cranes Cover prints
> that
>> I
>> developed in ammonium citrate did bleed slightly (not like Platine)
> in
>> the
>> developer, so my conclusion is the bleeding is both paper and
> developer
>> related, and maybe another reason in there, too. But it was enough of
> a
>> revelation to want to stick with sodium citrate, frankly.
>>
>> That's it for today!
>> Chris
>> CZAphotography.com
>
Received on 07/24/06-08:53:45 AM Z