Re: Politics and civility

etienne, while I think your heart is in the right place, what you
propose seems to me to be totally unworkable - who will be the judge
and jury? Indeed, your post is "political." I'm using the definition
of politics as "the means by which scarce commodities and resources
are allocated." Isn't banning someone from this list inherently
political since that person will be denied access. I have yet to be
on a list with much traffic (more than 10 posts a day) that does not
have "flare-ups" from time to time. Katherine has already noted that
we have banned list members who have, and in the future might be able
to, contribute information here. In the sciences, ideally, part of
what goes with the territory is an ability to deal rationally with
what is before you. Criticism is not a bad thing - it's a good thing
if it is rational. ALT-PHOTO is not and never will be science;
photography at least in the way that it is used by most of the folks
on this list is ART! Art is by its' very nature is, at least to me
and a few others, political. Art does not have to be rational. To
follow etienne's logic I could point to many posts that should be
banned from the list, including this one and perhaps etinnes own
since, IMHO both are "political."

If we must have criteria of what is permissible on the list, I like
the idea of simply adhering to a principle that no "personal attacks"
are not to be tolerated. That does not include attacks on working
methods or political beliefs (if I choose to photograph undercover
police officers defending our "homeland" and showing them as spies,
printed with gum or carbon of course, that could certainly be
construed as political - unless of course we are not to discuss our
work but only how we stick the images to "whatever"). Sorry don't
mean to be a pill about this, but I think it's very important.

-greg schmitz

On Wed, 3 May 2006, etienne garbaux wrote:

===some deleted: snip%<

> I agree with Richard -- we need to prevent abusive posts -- but in
> practice, permitting political discussion inevitably leads to ugliness. At
> least it always has here, as well as on three or four dozen other lists I
> could name. The question appears to be whether to allow it up to the time
> it turns ugly, or not. I'm with Katharine -- politics is off-topic, and at
> best it detracts from the list. If people won't keep their politics to
> themselves without help, we should terminate their posting privileges at
> the very first mention of it (maybe letting them back on after a month for
> the first offense). We should not wait for repercussions.
>
> Further, we should construe "politics" broadly, to include expressing views
> on any contentious, non-photographic social issues. For that matter, in my
> view we should apply the policy to all off-topic posts, although I would
> NOT advocate construing "off-topic" broadly. (That is, I would advocate
> construing "on topic" so as to allow fairly wide departures, as long as
> there was some relevance to alt.photo and the subject was not politics.)
>
> Just a suggestion. I do not intend to debate it, and will most likely not
> respond to further posts on the subject. But I do think it is necessary if
> we are to preserve the list. Looking back over my 8 or 10 years watching
> the list, I can think of at least fifteen expert and valuable contributors
> who have left because of the sniping and the many off-topic excursions.
>
> Best regards,
>
> etienne
>
>
Received on 05/04/06-04:26:41 AM Z