Re: brush vs tray size for gum
Carmen, a couple of comments:
I mix the glyoxal and gelatin together and apply in one step, and the glyoxal rinses fine; in other words for me the glyoxal doesn't have to be applied separately to get the benefit of rinsing. I don't bother with a separate rinse after sizing, though, because I've found that the yellowing disappears when the paper is printed and developed; in other words the yellow disappears in the normal water development for gum printing. Of course your paper may behave differently; if you've already tried mixing them and found it didn't rinse out, then never mind my comment of course.
I think the difficulty with brushing is definitely related to the size of your paper; the gelatin probably cools and gels before you can get it all brushed out. I have two large flat electric griddles that I put next to each other to keep paper warm while I'm brushing sizing on to keep it from setting up too fast, but you'd probably need four of these for your whole paper. Another, similar, idea: use a piece of plate glass bigger than your sheet of paper and put heating pads underneath to warm the glass.
On Sep 26, 2006, at 12:51 PM, Carmen Lizardo wrote:
Dear Chris and Kerik, I would love to brush size my paper, specially because use a full sheet of 22x30 inches when I print, and you could only imaging how long that takes and how much gelatin I need, but I can't seem to be able to get an even coat, and mixing glyoxal and gelatin together is out because I have to able to rise it off the gelatin to prevent yellow stains. Of course when I used Glut, it was from black magic and that did not work. I also felt it in ky eyes and throat and i not even the sensitive type. I am willing to try again, maybe with a different glut?? Any pointers that you can give me with the brushing?? I was thinking that it had to do with the size of my paper. The gelatin gets hard before I have time to cover the whole 22x30 sheet. Thank you kindly, Carmen --- "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:Chris, I agree that tray sizing is a lot of mess and hassle for no substantial benefit. Plus, why do the sizing in 2 steps when it can be done in one? I use either a glass rod (puddle pusher) and/or a brush. I add the hardener (formaldehyde in my case) to the sizing just before sizing each print. Three drops of formaldehyde and 5 ml of 3% sizing easily does an 8x10 to 11x14 print. In these tiny amounts, exposure to formaldehyde (or whatever hardener one uses) is minimal. I get very even sizing this way. A little bit of curl to the paper, but nothing that causes any problems. I tried B.M. glut and did not like the results. It resulted in slower development and considerably more staining than with formaldehyde. As for sizing with unhardened gelatin, that sounds like another in a long line of T King's erroneous hyperboles. Speaking of gum, I taught a gumover workshop in Philladelphia this past weekend for www.projectbasho.org. On sunday it was 80 degrees F and 82% humidity in the darkroom. That's the first time I've printed gum in sauna-like conditions and it created some hassles with very slow development and the need to intervene with some brute force measures (brushes, fingernails, sandpaper). Anybody have similar problems printing gum in high humidity? The conditions seemed to cause problems with the sizing in particular because development was much closer to normal when I did a single coat of gum on unsized paper right out of the plastic bag. I'm speculating that the humidity either prevented the gelatin from hardening completely or it allowed the gum solution to soak into the sizing a bit rather than sitting on top. Despite the problems, I believe a good time was had by all. Although I always want things to go smoothly during the workshops, it's good for the students to learn how to deal with problems when they come up. Kerik www.kerik.com Original Message: ----------------- From: Christina Z. Anderson email@example.com Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:08:22 -0600 To: alt-photo-process-L@usask.ca Subject: brush vs tray size for gum Hi All, This weekend was time for sizing paper, and since I was doing small sizes (11x14's) I decided to tray size instead of brush size to see if it had any added benefits to brush sizing. I was sizing with gelatin glutaraldehyde as usual. I did use a piece of it right away, same day, and had no problem with the sizing not being hardened and producing "magenta squares" as did Carmen. However, I was using glut that I bought from a medical supply house (now available at the Photographer's Formulary) and not Black Magic. The gelatin on my paper was not slimy in any way so I know it was hardened. I am still not sure why Carmen got that problem, and am wondering about the suitability of Black Magic, therefore, with its added sulfite. It sounds like the same result I had when I tried Terry King's advice to use unhardened gelatin and got black squares. With tray sizing and cautions with glut, I gelatin sized the paper first, and then the next day I soaked the sized paper OUTSIDE in a tray of 50ml glut to a gallon of water. That worked well, but I would only tray size if the hardening part could be done outside to minimize fumes produced by the surface area of a whole tray of hardener, whatever type--glut, gly, formaldehyde. (When I brush size I keep the solution capped inside a thermos and pour out a cup at once.) The gelatin paper went in "slimy" feeling, and went out unslimy. The paper works fine but I learned a couple things: paper tray sized with gelatin will sink to the bottom, not float as does brush sized paper (except Arches) so if I am going to leave the paper soaking for a while it needs to be face up. I learned that the hard way. Back to floaters and sinkers, Mark. The paper does curl less than brush sized, but it doesn't seem worth the added trouble of trays. This is the only benefit I can see. Oh, maybe more evenness of sizing? I don't know this one yet...will have to print all papers. My husband set up an ingenious "clothesline" for me--a rung ladder on its side has plenty of hanger-ready rungs. I learned another thing the hard way: I printed 4 prints on the unsized but shrunk paper with a cyanotype layer, put the paper through the hot gelatin sizing process and didn't THINK that the 140-whatever degree gelatin would shrink the paper even more and make registration a B---H but you bet it did--warped and shrunk. Luckily only 4 prints ruined. DUH. Or, as Clay says, DOH. The bottom line is that brush sizing is sooo much easier and works well and uses way less gelatin--I sized 24 11x14s with a a liter of 3%, and normally I can do that many 16x20s with the same. I don't think even with small sizes I would tray size... That's all my truly exciting weekend experience! Chris CZAphotography.com--------------------------------------------------------------------mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com