U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: Defining "post-modernism" -- WAS--- First define "post-modern"pho

Re: Defining "post-modernism" -- WAS--- First define "post-modern"photography, dammit



First of all, I'll agree we ought not veer out of the alt photo stuff but now and then it's okay . . right?
And, this should be my last diatribe on all this stuff.

On November2007, at 8:33 PM, Don Sweet wrote:

Hi Jack
I see postings to this list a bit late sometimes, but despite that (and the
fact I am rather out of my depth) I would like to respond to some of your
comments.

Isn't it more plausible that the rise of PM ideas has directly contributed
to the recent success of war rhetoric and god-bothering as election
strategies? PM arose 30 or 40 years too soon to be a reaction to all that.
PM is now big business, and part of what used to be called the
Establishment. So is gangsta rap.
I'm not fully sure of what you say/imply here. My point was that a history of
European wars leading toward WWII and that horror, fed philosophy to 'invent'
PM, which is an angered critique of modernism and capitalism. It is feasible to
think most reading this list know of Eisenhower's speech as he left office to
warn the public of the power of a military and industrial complex. The knowledge
of the rhetoric of war-mongering was alive and bubbling decades ago.

Cindy Sherman is more distinctively a performance artist than a
photographer. When it is her pose that carries her message, the photo
becomes a mere record of the way she looked while she was acting as a piece
of auto-sculpture.
Makes no difference. Photography is inclusive of such actions as its the medium
by which we see personal affectation, ideation of belief, record of pose etc. Is not
all fashion photography about performance. Was not the majority of Warhol a love
affair with the poseur. I might be walking the plank here but the decisive moment
is a realization of Shakespeare's "all the world's a stage and all the men and women
merely players", wherein the "aha" as one presses the shutter (curtain of life) is the
understanding you are creating a fictional account of reality. Maybe one is making
a real account of fictional truth in that we all subscribe to some belief whether
inculcated or learned.

David Hockney's book Secret Knowledge sets out his theory on the use of
camera technology by famous painters since the Renaissance, specially
evident in the foreshortened paintings by Mantegna, Carvaggio etc. He also
explains the revolution led by Cezanne in terms of a rejection of
photographic perspective.
Good point . . I've enjoyed thinking through mine own perspective that Cezanne
'knew' that it is possible to use two perspectives by employing photography's
memory factor. Look at a table with, say, some oranges and apples and then sit
in a chair and fondly gaze again: 2 perspective understandings. The second from
the chair is based more upon the memory of the former. Put them together, as
Cezanne did, and you speak of the fluidity of time. Braque and Picasso not only
broke times (as depicted soon thereafter by Dali in the early 30's) but included
visual similes. So in that sense and again in my mind the perspective of the
photographic lens aided visual interpretation of representation. It is about use
of exciting spatial relationship, out of the norm, yet depicting all that one normally
sees. Think of the view of Earth from the moon that created, virtually, the Whole
Earth Catalogue.

I thought that trying to use the power of artistic expression in an
aspirational way - to improve the human condition - was the goal of
modernists. The essence of PM seems to be to reject modernism by
challenging all assumptions as to what may be noble, beautiful or
worthwhile. The technique is deconstruction, which is valuable, and has
some uses in the healing sciences. But in PM it can be used in such a
nihilistic and cynical way as to mock everything, clearing the way for
secular missionaries and crackpots, shock and awe, and the boy wonder and
tonto.
Gee whiz, ya know, so much is subjective . . . essentially, to me at least, and not to
confuse everyone, after the Renaissance and after cogito ergo sum and after the
calculus, which many thought to be modern, our use of Modernism begins with
Manet. It wished to break tradition and yet make brilliant that which is innate such
as his Picnic On the Grass or Olympia. Again, for me, it was a path to self expression
which was aided by photography scintillating veracity. PM and as you note, de-construction,
can hopefully provide a way to see something that doesn't work, or which has progressed
to egregious excess (such as not-paid-attention-to cancers) and search through the making
of it, or its creation, using semiotics, or signs of the time, to 'solve' the problem and make
things better . . . all, so to speak.
If Jorge Shrub (read G. Bush) were a PM thinker, he would've provided education to young
people here rather than stealing their future.
As for alt photography, maybe deconstruction could lead us to use contemporary vision
but depict it through the methods of history.

I'd like to connect this back to alt photography, but I have no idea how.

Don Sweet