U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: Ruined 3rd tricolor gum print! Grrrr...

Re: Ruined 3rd tricolor gum print! Grrrr...

Loris, I concur that you might do well to cut the pigment back a bit
more (going by the whites of the eyes and by the coarseness of the
texture in the midtones). Reducing the pigment in the same amount of
gum, or using the same amount of pigment and adding more gum, are
essentially the same solution.

Whether it's too dark is hard for me to say without the other colors
(I can't judge the cyan by itself without seeing how it interacts
with the other colors.) Like Henk, my tendency when printing the
cyan first is to print it too dark, so I prefer to print it last
where I can see it as part of the whole rather than as an isolated
standalone print. But as I said before, we all have different ways
of thinking about these things, and if printing the cyan first works
well for you, as it does for Keith, that's what you should do. I'll
be interested to see how the finished print turns out.


On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:12 PM, Loris Medici wrote:

Thank you all people! Now I'm getting somewhere; indeed, the
pigment was
too much... I did another test print, see the progress below:


I think I can still cut some more pigment. The result is still too
- not
dark but let say -> low contrast. Of course, one reason of this is the
fact that I'm using paper negatives -> those give low contrast
because of
the paper's texture. Will make another try (after finishing this one)
using less dichromate (10% instead of 20%) and slightly more exposure
(19mins, ~ +1/3 stop) and see what happens. I think I can use slightly
more contrast in the shadows.

Thank you all again!

I liked much Keith's approach and will continue that way. Katharine's
explanation about her workflow is also logical and was noted. I noted
Chris' "dilute the coating solution" suggestion too and may try it
according to the current situation...

Please provide your comments about the images above.

Thanks in advance & best regards,

22 Eylül 2008, Pazartesi, 6:50 pm tarihinde, Katharine Thayer

P.S. Looking at the amounts (before, I was looking only at your
description of the effects) I'm even more sure about the pigment.  If
you're using the same amount of thalo as PV19, it's most probably too
much thalo.  As I think I said a day or two ago in a different
context, PV19 isn't nearly as strong as thalo.  Hope that's helpful,

On Sep 22, 2008, at 8:04 AM, Katharine Thayer wrote:

My first thought, without seeing the thing myself, is that you're
using too much thalo;  the flaking, the uneven coating, the
overwhelmingness that you describe  (though I might be
understanding that different than you're meaning it) all suggest
too much pigment.  I could be wrong; I'd have to see it for myself
to know for sure.

In my experience, a cyan-last order works best, because with the
yellow and red already down, you can watch the color balance and
tonality while developing and take it out when it's "right;"  in
other words it's easier to get it right on the first try printing
cyan last.

On Sep 22, 2008, at 6:34 AM, Loris Medici wrote:

Hi all,

I'm trying tricolor gum printing using plain paper negatives.

I start with yellow (Schmincke 208 Aureolin Modern PY151
then I print the magenta (Schmincke 351 Ruby Red PV19 Quinacridone
and everything (tonality, smoothness, color) is good & nice up to

As the last layer, I print the cyan (Schmincke 479 Helio Cerulean
Phtalocyanine Blue) and somehow it's too overwhelming, very
uneven, and it
flakes like crazy!

Pigment amounts are as following:
1. Yellow, pea sized, into 3.75ml gum + 3.75ml dichromate
2. Magenta, lentil sized (read as: half of yellow), same as 1
3. Cyan, lentil sized (same as magenta), same as 1

Exposure times and dichromate amounts are the same for all three
(15mins., 20% ammonium dichromate). I use automatic development
for 30
minutes, sometimes a little longer according to how it looks.

I don't know why I'm having this problem but will try to (all
a) Print in the opposite order (1. Cyan, 2. Magenta, 3. Yellow)
b) Use even less cyan pigment to match the color intensity of
previous layers
c) Try to not panic while struggling to coat an extra even cyan

What can you say? Any ideas on why I'm stuck that way?

Thanks in advance,