[alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 73, Issue 2
Rajul
eyeear at shaw.ca
Mon Feb 22 21:26:12 GMT 2010
Loris,
Trial and error established that UV'ing the plates after hair-drying
them increased their sturdiness to multiple gum passes. I did not ask
more questions!!
For spreading, the ground should ALWAYS be kept ahead of the
direction the plastic roller is being pushed in. So after you reach
one edge, lift the roller and place it behind the pooled line of
ground and start moving it in the opposite direction.
I know my K3Fe(CN)6 has more of the K4 derivative and this has
probably reduced the dmax. I do not want a heavy cyan and as long as
it helps me with registration, I do not want to be distracted by this
issue.
Not very scientific but will have to do for now. Rajul
On 22-Feb-10, at 1:50 AM, alt-photo-process-list-
request at lists.altphotolist.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: "Altered Photography" - was Re: "Alternative" printing?
> (Judy Seigel)
> 2. Re: Paper Negatives (Jim Larimer)
> 3. Re: Sky banding - 3800 Printer (ender100)
> 4. Sizing Gamblin PVA and hardening? (Jacek Gonsalves)
> 5. Re: Sky banding - 3800 Printer (Loris Medici)
> 6. Re: Prints on Aluminum- response (Loris Medici)
> 7. Re: Paper Negatives (Loris Medici)
> 8. Re: Paper Negatives (Michel Debar)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:09:41 -0500 (EST)
> From: Judy Seigel <jseigel at panix.com>
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: "Altered Photography" - was Re: "Alternative"
> printing?
> Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.1002212305050.25122 at panix2.panix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Diana & all...
>
> That reminds me of a story from long long ago on one of the now-
> vanished
> photo process lists-- a dealer was overheard explaining to a
> customer a
> line of breathless baloney about a print being made BY HAND !!
>
> J.
>
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Diana Bloomfield wrote:
>
>> Hey Judy,
>>
>> Yes, that was my original point.
>>
>> Diana
>>
>
>>>> .... In my book, if it's a print that rolls out of a digital
>>>> printer (no
>>>> matter how much imagination and alteration was used in the
>>>> making), and
>>>> that's your final image-- then that's not an "alternative
>>>> process print."
>>>
>>> Diana, do you mean to say that folks making digital prints are
>>> calling them
>>> ***alternative***....???
> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:19:25 -0700
> From: Jim Larimer <jrlarimer at gmail.com>
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paper Negatives
> Message-ID:
> <770d34171002212019p6ccabb37y29665f0b023dbe02 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I really like the PVA for gum prints...the ease of use and the
> slight sheen
> are definitely pluses for me. I use it full strength on Canson
> Montval 140
> lb CP.
> Jim L
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Judy Seigel <jseigel at panix.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for the info... since gelatin sizing is a world class PITA,
>> I will
>> surely try the magic PVA..
>>
>> J.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010, Diana Bloomfield wrote:
>>
>> Judy,
>>>
>>> I've been using it for gum prints, too, and use it straight from the
>>> bottle (no dilution)--brushing on one thin coat-- which seems to
>>> work really
>>> well for me. I seem to get much better results than with the
>>> gelatin
>>> sizing. The most color layers I've done, using PVA, has been 6,
>>> I think--
>>> with no need to repeat the coating. I like that very slight
>>> sheen from the
>>> PVA, too.
>>>
>>> Diana
>>> On Feb 19, 2010, at 10:58 PM, Judy Seigel wrote:
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 23:05:44 -0600
> From: ender100 <ender100 at aol.com>
> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Sky banding - 3800 Printer
> Message-ID: <6B42C7E2.FF31.4D44.AC68.A29DDF2BDB0A at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It won't show in a regular inkjet print when printing on the
> positives because it is so subtle and in the deep shadows. ?I have
> only rarely seen a reference to this when printing "regular prints"
> on the Epson List and I believe it was only apparent until the
> prints had cured. ?Why it can come and go with one printer or
> another and never affect other printers I do not know. ?The Epson
> 3800 is the least prone to this of any printer I have seen, except
> for the R1800. ?I guess it has something to do with uneven paper
> feed of the OHP. ?It can occur with any ink combination you try and
> any driver setting you try.
> --
> Best Wishes,
>
> Mark Nelson
> Precision Digital Negatives
> PDNPrint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
>
> Mark Nelson Photography
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:15:15 PM, "Marek Matusz"
> <marekmatusz at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Amy
>
> This is a tough problem and I agree with others that these are not
> mechanical roller marks. A couple suggestions here. You should be
> able to print a test print on a photo glossy paper and see the
> banding. Regular paper is not as good as it doeas not show smooth
> transitions well. That would help with troubleshooting. Are you
> sure that one or more nozzles are not firing? It almost seems that
> this happens as the head moves in one direction, but not in the
> other. Are you using bi-directional printing?
> Epson 3800 has enough density to print one or two inks. Can you try
> another ink combination? Just yellow and black has plenty of density.
>
> Finally to eliminate bad substrate print the picture with paper in
> the other direction.
>
> SOrry, nothing easy here.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:59:25 +0800
> From: Jacek Gonsalves <jacek at jagnight.com>
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Sizing Gamblin PVA and hardening?
> Message-ID: <20100222155925.dcwnxtm3sow0koss at www.jagnight.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Gelatin coating with sizing and using Formalin as a hardner I am
> seriously opting out of it. The formalin really is affecting me even
> with a mask and doing the work outside.
> I haven't gone the route of Gelatin and Glyoxal, unless that isn't as
> potent as Formalin?
>
> So sizing with Gamblin PVA, will it still need a hardner?
> Cheers
> Jacek
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:16:06 +0200
> From: "Loris Medici" <mail at loris.medici.name>
> To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Sky banding - 3800 Printer
> Message-ID: <00C3CBFD5F624399B95400B010210503 at altinyildiz.trk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ann, if it's indeed due uneven feed of the OHP material, *you can
> feed the
> OHP sandwitched with a very thin paper*; that may help the rollers
> grab the
> film.
>
> I always feed my HP9180 by backing the OHP with a thin (200
> micrometer)
> sheet of Yupo paper. (Not because of slippage but for making the
> printer
> "see" the transparency material.) You don't need to affix the sheets;
> there's enough friction (and a little static electricity) to keep them
> together.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Loris.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On
> Behalf Of
> ender100
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 7:06 AM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Sky banding - 3800 Printer
>
> ...I guess it has something to do with uneven paper feed of the OHP...
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:30:15 +0200
> From: "Loris Medici" <mail at loris.medici.name>
> To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Prints on Aluminum- response
> Message-ID: <6A3D2231455647B1BAABA39604CD1B7C at altinyildiz.trk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks much Rajul. It seems you have worked pretty hard, formula is
> complex.
>
> - What is the purpose of UV'ing? (I don't see anything in the
> ground that
> will crosslink with UV. Could be my ignorance perhaps?)
> - I understand that you "roll" the tube in the first pass then
> "push" back.
> I may try this coating method; sounds promising for my needs...
> - Did you notice any adverse effect to the cyanotype? (Such as:
> weak dmax
> and sensitivity...)
>
> Thanks much again!
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On
> Behalf Of
> Rajul
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:50 AM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Prints on Aluminum- response
>
> ...
>
> Ground mix:
> 20g Stevenson's Acrylic gesso
> 50 ml water
> 25 ml gum arabic (I use Senefelder's)
> 50 ml Gamblin PVA size
> 15 g sieved Sand Flour ( I sieve it through fine
> nylon mesh)
>
> ...
>
> Coating of the mix is done with ~1" diameter plastic tubes that are
> 11"
> long. I pour about 10 ml. of the mix along one edge of the plate
> and roll it
> back with the tube to the closer edge, then gently push it to the
> opposite
> end till a thin, even layer is obtained. This is dried with a hot hair
> dryer, allowed to air dry overnight, then UV'd for 2'.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:57:18 +0200
> From: "Loris Medici" <mail at loris.medici.name>
> To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'"
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paper Negatives
> Message-ID: <B8D7A5F8E81F463DA20FB39CE2722D34 at altinyildiz.trk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9"
>
> I've also switched to a PVAc based transparent wood glue as sizing.
> I dilute
> it 1+4, gives enough protection for 4-5 layers w/o the sheen of full
> strenght. (I can't say I like the sheen; it takes something from
> the gum
> prints...) Not that I think gelatin sizing is too much a PITA but it's
> surely much more practical.
>
> OTOH, I'm a little bit nervous about the longterm effects of the
> sizing to
> the paper and its longevity; because I don't know for sure. Any
> thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
> P.S. for Turkey based gum printers: It's "Filli Boya"s (Caparol's
> local
> brand name) "Fil-fix ?effaf" transparent wood glue. (You definitely
> want the
> "?effaf" version of the glue, there are many Fil-fix products!)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On
> Behalf Of Jim
> Larimer
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:19 AM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paper Negatives
>
> I really like the PVA for gum prints...the ease of use and the
> slight sheen
> are definitely pluses for me. I use it full strength on Canson
> Montval 140
> lb CP.
> Jim L
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Judy Seigel <jseigel at panix.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for the info... since gelatin sizing is a world class PITA, I
>> will surely try the magic PVA..
>>
>> J.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:50:08 +0100
> From: Michel Debar <michel at debar.org>
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paper Negatives
> Message-ID:
> <25a4fcdd1002220150y3730d1fdt5acd80e2b144b9a5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> PVA wood glue used for sizing, is it safe ?
>
> I would certainly worry about the conservation of prints sized with
> PVA, as
> its long term effect on paper has not, to my knowledge, been
> studied very
> seriously. As a minimum, I would stay away from "wood" glue,
> branded or not.
> Its composition has little chance of being known, and of being
> stable over
> time. The acidity of these glues may vary, and not be suitable for
> some
> processes. They may take as little as five years to become brittle -
> however, this may not be not too much of a concern given the very
> thin layer
> used.
>
> If, in later years, a print needs restoration, it will be very hard
> to trace
> the composition of the glue that has been used for sizing, and its
> analysis
> would be at the least costly.
>
> To be on the safe side, you might consider using PVA glues that are
> meant
> for bookbinding, for instance Planatol-BB (or eventually Planatol-
> B). This
> is a glue with a reasonnable history of usage in bookbinding, from a
> manufacturer that has proven reliable. See for instance these links :
>
> - http://www.planatol.de/en/buchbinden/fr_klebstoffe.htm
> - specifically (hoping the link works) :
> http://www.planatol.de/produktgruppe.aspx?ID=0&Language=en
> - http://www.mekatronicsinc.com/machines/pva_history_terms.pdf
>
> Michel
>
> 2010/2/22 Loris Medici <mail at loris.medici.name>
>
>> I've also switched to a PVAc based transparent wood glue as sizing. I
>> dilute
>> it 1+4, gives enough protection for 4-5 layers w/o the sheen of full
>> strenght. (I can't say I like the sheen; it takes something from
>> the gum
>> prints...) Not that I think gelatin sizing is too much a PITA but
>> it's
>> surely much more practical.
>>
>> OTOH, I'm a little bit nervous about the longterm effects of the
>> sizing to
>> the paper and its longevity; because I don't know for sure. Any
>> thoughts?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Loris.
>>
>> P.S. for Turkey based gum printers: It's "Filli Boya"s (Caparol's
>> local
>> brand name) "Fil-fix ?effaf" transparent wood glue. (You
>> definitely want
>> the
>> "?effaf" version of the glue, there are many Fil-fix products!)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org On
>> Behalf Of
>> Jim
>> Larimer
>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:19 AM
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paper Negatives
>>
>> I really like the PVA for gum prints...the ease of use and the
>> slight sheen
>> are definitely pluses for me. I use it full strength on Canson
>> Montval 140
>> lb CP.
>> Jim L
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Judy Seigel <jseigel at panix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info... since gelatin sizing is a world class PITA, I
>>> will surely try the magic PVA..
>>>
>>> J.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michel Debar
> 11, chemin du Fort Saint-H?ribert
> 5100 W?pion Belgique
>
> T?l. +32 (081) 4612 04 - +32 (0485) 72 83 92
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
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