[alt-photo] Re: Paractitioners from WWII thru the 1970's

Paul Viapiano viapiano at pacbell.net
Fri Mar 12 04:41:52 GMT 2010


Dick,

Thank you for this information. It is well known that Penn started 
experimenting with pt/pd printing in the mid-1960s after coming to a 
realization that a photograph had to be more than just an image on a 
magazine page, that a print was a thing in itself, an object to be 
cherished. This may seem bizarre to us but we have to remember that Penn 
entered the business as a magazine photographer of still life and fashion. 
The essential purpose of his photographic endeavor was to put an image on 
the printed page for mass consumption.

Tonight I read the list of prints in the Getty Museum's Small Trades 
exhibition catalog, which closed a few months ago. The museum bought the 
complete series, consisiting of over 250 photographs printed in both gelatin 
silver and pt/pd. The catalog lists only two pt/pd images printed from 1980 
forward. The bulk of the pt/pd images in this series were printed in 1967, 
with most of the remainder made in the mid to late 1970s.

Based on Penn's statement, posted previously, and the dates of the 
1960-1970s prints I would tend to believe that these particular prints were 
made by Penn himself.

Any large studio, and especially one as popular as Penn's, would be 
utilizing multiple assistants to keep things running smoothly. I wonder what 
the pt/pd output of the studio was after 1980? Had Penn completed his 
exploration and handed off the work to fulfill gallery requests, etc. We 
won't know unless someone of credibility comes forward to explain exactly 
what Penn's role was. I also don't own Penn's Platinum Prints book to see 
what the print dates on many of those are and my emails for information to 
the phtography curator at the National Gallery (?) have gone unanswered. (On 
an unrelated note, I would love to get a copy of the essay from that 
book...)

Now, of course, photographers NOT printing their own work has a long history 
which continues today, but I have always respected the artists whose own 
hands were involved in the making of the print, that wonderful, almost 
magical and sacred object.

OK, I'll let someone else take over the pulpit...err...uh...soapbox, now.

Dick, thanks for your continuing support in the alt arena and your openness 
in fostering a community of like-minded artists.

Paul




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richsul Sullivan" <richsul at earthlink.net>
To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'" 
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:27 PM
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paractitioners from WWII thru the 1970's


>I read that too. However from 1980 onwards when I talked to the studio on
> the phone it was clearly assistants asking the questions and doing the
> printing. There seemed to be new people every month and when I inquired as
> to whether they were doing the printing I got lots of stonewalling and 
> round
> about answers so I suspect he was not doing his own platinum printing at
> that point. Clearly his assembly line of assistants were not supposed to
> admit they were printing. His was a big studio, so it is possible that
> various people would answer the phone, but clearly these were technical
> questions ask by folks making the prints.
>
> I also periodically talked to Albert Watson, who called and asked the
> questions and clearly was the printing his own platinum work.
>
> Penn was apparently not an easy man to get along with. He had a hissy fit
> when he found out Dick Arentz was going to do a gallery talk about 
> platinum
> in the ICP gallery when Penn had a show. He wouldn't do the talk but he
> would not allow anyone else to either.
>
> He was probably only topped by Gene Smith when it came to "get along
> ability."
>
> I also overhead the most off the wall description of how a platinum print
> was made by a big time California fashion photographer who supposedly made
> the prints in the show I was at. He was taking all the credit for printing
> the work on the wall during the reception when I knew who made them. When 
> I
> introduced myself and mentioned the name of the printer he suddenly found
> someone else to talk to. He was actually a nice guy! He did sense that 
> there
> was extra credit to be earned by making one's own prints otherwise, why
> bother?
>
> --Dick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf 
> Of
> Keith Gerling
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 1:35 PM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Paractitioners from WWII thru the 1970's
>
> this from Penn's book Passage, page 144:
>
> "finally I arrived at the serene pleasure of making the print itself. 
> Over
> the years I must have spent thousands of hours silently brushing on the
> liquid coatings, preparing each sheet of paper in anticipation of reaching
> the perfect print"
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Keith Gerling
> <keith.gerling at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Todd Walker made gum bichromate prints in the 60s (I think)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Jeremy Moore
> <jeremydmoore at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> >From reading what? I, like Paul, have heard both stories and would like
>>> to
>>> see citations as opposed to more second-hand information.
>>>
>>> -Jeremy-
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:09 PM, <JoeSarff at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > >From reading I have one, Penn would come into the studio, and look at
>>> the
>>> > ground glass, make adjustments and leave.  The 'technicians' actually
>>> lit,
>>> > composed and tripped the shutter.  From that I would say David Vestal
>>>  is
>>> > correct.
>>> >
>>> > George Tice also printed platinum in the 70's
>>> >
>>> > Joe Sarff
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > In a message dated 3/11/2010 9:41:29 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
>>> > viapiano at pacbell.net writes:
>>> >
>>> > AFAIK,  Irving Penn did the alt work in his studios, but of course, 
>>> > may
>>> > have
>>> > been  helped by assistants.
>>> >
>>> > Where do you have info that can be verified that  he did not print his
>>> alt
>>> > or
>>> > other work?
>>> >
>>> > You know, a while ago there  was an article in one of the photo mags 
>>> > in
>>> > which
>>> > David Vestal reamed  Irving Penn re: his work and implied that they 
>>> > guy
>>> > knew
>>> > nothing about  photography. It was deplorable, and just proved to me
>>> that
>>> > Vestal had an  axe to grind, but both men's work speaks for  itself.
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Richsul  Sullivan" <richsul at earthlink.net>
>>> > To: "'The alternative photographic  processes mailing list'"
>>> > <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>>> > Sent: Thursday,  March 11, 2010 8:32 AM
>>> > Subject: [alt-photo] Paractitioners from WWII thru  the 1970's
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >I can use some help. I am preparing a lecture on the  history of alt
>>> > process
>>> > > since WWII.
>>> > >
>>> > > I would like to  know who was doing handmade and historical process
>>> > > photography after  WWII up to 1980. I am particularly interested in
>>> folks
>>> > > working in the  1970's in what I call the early renaissance period 
>>> > > of
>>> alt
>>> > > photography.  Links to their work is helpful as well as any
>>> information
>>> > as
>>> > >  to
>>> > > who was actually doing the printing, say in the case of Irving 
>>> > > Penn,
>>> who
>>> > I
>>> > > believed did not print most of his own work. Hopefully the  folks
>>> would
>>> > > have
>>> > > had some exhibitions of their  works.
>>> > >
>>> > > As an example, Steve Szabo made a mark in the 70's  doing platinum
>>> prints
>>> > > and
>>> > > Laura Gilpin continued making  platinum prints post WWII until her
>>> death.
>>> > > Karl Struss had work  printed by Herb Quick and I believe they were
>>> made
>>> > in
>>> > > the  1970's.
>>> > >
>>> > > I am not interested in silver gelatin even though some  now consider
>>> it
>>> > to
>>> > > be
>>> > > alternative.
>>> > >
>>> > >  Thanks!
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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