[alt-photo] Re: Casein source

Christina Anderson zphoto at montana.net
Thu Apr 14 15:57:03 GMT 2011

Dear You Two,

This is what I found interesting in Marek's website mention, why this list is so nice to have these conversations.

I did a layer of casein on Yupo and on Kwik Print plastic. On both I was able to wipe off pigment like wiping chalk off a chalkboard. However, if what the website says is correct, that if you can wipe paint off you need more binder, then I will go back and revisit Yupo and Kwik Print paper with less pigment/more binder. So until proven guilty, these papers are not out yet.

Two, the benefit of ammonium caseinate powder is there is no additional chemical needed, no heat, just mix n go. It whips up to egg foam, subsides in a couple hours to a pancake syrup consistency (thinner than the Schmincke which is a very thick corn syrup) and gets more watery in the week. Very thin, fine, works fine even two weeks later except that if using earth pigments it must be shaken (as in gum, too). I use thymol as a preservative. The watery solution doesn't go "off" and become unusable, albeit thinner.

Three, the fact that in the ammonia recipe the chemical reaction is created over time with no heat is probably why the ammonium caseinate works so well for me and not the sodium caseinate, that it has the "reactor" in it already which the sodium does not. My sodium caseinate is still a rubbery glob after several days, only usable if heated to a liquid, just as gelatin.

The odd thing about casein is 40g mixed in 400ml water, my proportion, still only produced 400ml, of final solution. In other words the powder at 10% doesn't add enough volume to make it worth mixing first in 300 and then adding water to 400ml.  Granted, evaporation happens in MT with 20% humidity...but when Marek's site says 2 parts casein + 16 parts water I think it really does end up to be very close to 2 IN 16 not 2 IN total volume 18, not that there is much difference, the former being 12.5% and the latter about 11%.

Since Schmincke and Kremer provide a liquid version of casein binder do you think there is a market for the ammonium caseinate powder? Wonder why the paint companies don't provide the ammonium caseinate? There's got to be a reason, perhaps a viscosity reason, that just regular casein is sold only it seems.

Three, the two recipes on Marek's website say this:

	• 2  parts Casein Powder
	• 16 parts water
	• 1 part Ammonium Carbonate
	(or clear liquid ammonia*)
	• Dry Pigments paste water


	• 5 parts Casein Powder
	• 9 parts Cold Water
	• 2 parts Borax
	• 9 parts Hot water

Christina Z. Anderson

On Apr 13, 2011, at 11:44 PM, Alberto Novo wrote:

> Marek, 
>> I found this interesting link about casein paints. Ammonium carbonate is a solid and well defined chemical. I am going to give it a try
>> http://www.earthpigments.com/art/artists-casein.cfm
> their recipe is similar to Kremer's:
> http://kremer-pigmente.de/Texte/casein.pdf 
> differencies:
> the ratio casein/ammonium carbonate is 4 in Kremer and 2 in EarthPigments (half carbonate in K than in EP),
> the concentration is about 16% in K and 12.5 in EP. 
> If Kremer's recipe works, then a high content of ammonium carbonate is not needed.
> 16% casein is what I used in my single coat prints with natural earth. 
> Alberto
> www.grupponamias.com
> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group
> _______________________________________________
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