[alt-photo] Re: casein odd process

[Keith Gerling]

Yes.  Kremer.  $32.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>wrote:

> Where'd you get your kilo of casein?? Kremer?
>
> What is interesting is that ammonium caseinate is described as water
> soluble. Sodium caseinate is not. I think there is a market for the ammonium
> caseinate powder but one has to buy it in HUGE amounts, 25 kilos at the
> least. I could buy the bag, but I don't want to become a casein dispenser.
>
> Well, easier would just be to package smaller amounts of the sodium
> caseinate with a little packet of borax or am carb powder and be done with
> it.
>
> This is going to be a DUMB question, but how does one determine if a
> pigment is a metallic salt or not?? E.g. which pigments CAN be stock-mixed
> with caseine and which not??
>
> The FAC was discussed in relation to a question Sam Wang asked a couple
> years back and if I am not mistaken, Peter Friedrichsen (sp) answered it.
> Chris
> PS It is not a young process-- earliest mention I've found is 1858 or
> before, not 1870 or 1905 or 1908 as some quote, including Nadeau.
>
> Christina Z. Anderson
> christinaZanderson.com
>
> On Aug 31, 2011, at 8:51 AM, Keith Gerling wrote:
>
> > Oh yeah... I totally glazeover proportions when i read them, but that IS
> a
> > thin mix.
> >
> > I missed any discussion on the crosslinking properties of FAC.  I must be
> > getting old and feeble-minded because I'm totally unable to picture what
> the
> > end result of any of these processes are...
> >
> > But that's ok,  I've got a old D70 taken apart at the moment and I'm
> trying
> > to fit an infra-red filter over the sensor.  If I entertain anymore
> thoughts
> > regarding casein at the moment, I'm likely to forget how to put it
> > together.  (But, I should he hearing the thud of a kilo of casein being
> > dropped on my doorstep at any moment!)
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hmm...well, we've talked before about FAC's ability to crosslink gum and
> so
> >> it must have the same action on casein.
> >>
> >> It is interesting to read the patents that are more to do with a)
> >> substituting casein for albumen or collodion on glass plates and b)
> brushing
> >> this mixture on a bromide print already exposed and the metallic salts
> will
> >> make the casein insoluble proportionately. I mean, how ridiculously
> >> complicated they made it. But the advantage to their way of thinking was
> it
> >> was (ta da) MATTE and glossy "was disturbing."
> >>
> >> Casein was known to be faster and more flexible, and developed more
> >> quickly. I find all those true, too.
> >>
> >> Casein was also recommended in place of albumen during the war to save
> on
> >> eggs.
> >>
> >> Research into it is laborious. Gum was a piece of cake compared to
> casein.
> >> It abounded. It's not enough to look at indexes for
> "casein/caseine/kaseine"
> >> because a first mention will be something like "A new improvement on the
> >> collodion process."
> >>
> >> But what I find interesting about the formula, below, is the proportion
> of
> >> casein--6.6%.
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Christina Z. Anderson
> >> christinaZanderson.com
> >>
> >> On Aug 31, 2011, at 7:59 AM, Keith Gerling wrote:
> >>
> >>> This is very interesting.  I had just assumed that the process you has
> >>> referred to was the one in the Sherer book where casein was used like
> >>> albumen.  This one?  What is it supposed to DO?  Just FAC in an
> emulsion?
> >> I
> >>> don't get it.  I'm no chemist but I sense something is missing!
> >>>
> >>> Keith
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 8:44 AM, Christina Anderson <
> zphoto at montana.net
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Keith,
> >>>>
> >>>> Since you asked....
> >>>>
> >>>> In searching for casein (still) the one formula I came across a patent
> >> for:
> >>>> 5g of anhydrous casein, 75 ml water, 2 ml ammonia, and 2.5 g ferric
> >> ammonium
> >>>> citrate (FAC). Brushed on paper.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have found continually that casein cannot be mixed with metallic
> salts
> >>>> because they will, what is the term, "throw down" and insolubilize.
> This
> >> is
> >>>> one advantage I see in gum is the ability to mix stock pigment
> solutions
> >>>> with no hardening.
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Christina Z. Anderson
> >>>> christinaZanderson.com
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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