[alt-photo] Re: casein

Peter Friedrichsen pfriedrichsen at sympatico.ca
Sat Feb 26 03:34:35 GMT 2011 

While I agree that casein is more forgiving on 
exposure, I find it less forgiving (vs gum) in 
applying the pigmented emulsion. From my 
experience, the casein sets up faster so one 
really has to work fast to avoid streaking if you 
apply the same traditional coating technique as 
gum bichromate. Peter B may have his own technique.

In my preparation of casein, I precipitate it out 
of skim milk powder dissolved in water using 
household vinegar, then wash it through a cloth. 
When in this finely precipitated state, it is 
easily dissolved with a very small amount of 
baking soda or household ammonia. The final pH I 
get is about 6 and there is no disagreeable odor 
even with the ammonia addition. If you start with 
dry casein, then the excess alkali is needed to aid the dissolution.

One thing that attracted me to casein is that it 
works well in the "green" chiba system (ferric 
ammonium citrate sensitizer and H2O2/water 
developer), while gum is challenged here.

I have not practiced casein printing to any great 
extent, perhaps a two dozen prints mostly using the chiba system.

Peter Friedrichsen
At 03:32 PM 02/25/2011, you wrote:

>To Keith, Christina, and all,
>
>One advantage to FRESH casein is that (at least 
>in the method I use to make it) when ready to 
>use, it has no odor—just what I would call a 
>"fresh" smell. The odor comes later when 
>processing in water. At first, I will get a mild 
>whiff of "dirty diaper" smell—but it doesn’t last long.
>
>Last but not least, in my opinion, casein as a 
>process is more forgiving and has more latitude 
>than gum. For example, while a print or two is 
>outside exposing in the sun, I am usually 
>preparing other prints inside or getting the 
>water bath ready. Sometimes the phone will ring 
>or my daughter will interrupt me and I will not 
>hear the timer go off. While I'm on the phone or 
>off in another world, my print(s) are quietly, 
>merrily overexposing. No worries. Most of the 
>time, the print(s) will still process 
>fine—albeit a longer soak time, or some help 
>from a dilute ammonia bath, but I can get away 
>with much more inattention with casein than gum. 
>That's why I compare gum to classical music and casein to rock n' roll.
>
>I do plan to either write of my working methods 
>on alternativephotography.com or through some 
>other means. For what it's worth, I did not find 
>dried casein suitable in my approach to printing 
>which is bold, snappy, and saturated imagery. 
>The characteristics, especially in pH and viscosity, are different.
>
>I hope that helps.
>
>
>Peter
>
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:47:39 -0600
> > From: keith.gerling at gmail.com
> > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thanks for the info. Whenever you have more time, I would greatly
> > appreciate more of your thoughts regarding the advantages of casein. I
> > would love to hear about the advantages of fresh casein, as well.
> >
> > Christina, I cut the exposure to half that of gum, and it was PERFECT.
> > Actually, not a bad print. I think I'll print another coat later and post
> > the results.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Peter Blackburn
> > <blackburnap at hotmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Christina and all:
> > >
> > > Yes, I do casein quite a bit—much of the time, fact and LOVE IT. It has
> > > quite a few advantages over gum with 
> shorter printing times being one. And
> > > since I use the sun, I can work in casein 
> on somewhat cloudy days—days which
> > > would create havoc with gum. It can be 
> blotted dry after processing with a
> > > towel unlike gum which would smear or 
> worse! My casein is pure white which
> > > makes it a bit easier to see and evaluate 
> hue and density during the mixing
> > > stage. Casein is a little more fluid 
> allowing for the use of brushes usually
> > > reserved for inks and dyes. There are a few 
> more advantages which would take
> > > a bit of time to explain. Yes, casein is quite underrated in my opinion.
> > > Casein had been used in primitive painting 
> in ages past. Why gum had about a
> > > fifty-year head start over casein for dichromate printing is a mystery to
> > > me. However, I make my casein fresh 
> directly from cheese which I think makes
> > > ALL the difference in the world. Someday I will get this down in
> > > publication.
> > >
> > > Hope you are doing well, Christina, in all 
> of your extensive traveling and
> > > teaching. You seem quite busy these days.
> > >
> > > Cheers to all!
> > >
> > >
> > > Peter J. Blackburn
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: zphoto at montana.net
> > > > Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:43:44 -0700
> > > > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > > > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> > > >
> > > > Keith!
> > > > Thanks for the info!
> > > >
> > > > One casein printer said it was half the gum printing time...
> > > >
> > > > Christina Z. Anderson
> > > > christinaZanderson.com
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Keith Gerling wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I've used the Kremer product and it is 
> cheap and easy. I have not used
> > > it a
> > > > > LOT, because I really did not see much advantage of casein over gum,
> > > but
> > > > > then I admit that I only used it on wood panels, so the "test" was
> > > hardly
> > > > > extensive. The results that I got were very interesting and I can
> > > certainly
> > > > > promise that I will get back to it in 
> the future when it warms up and I
> > > can
> > > > > haul my lazy self out to Menards for more wood. At the moment I am
> > > printing
> > > > > tons of cyanotypes on Masa. Casein on masa? That sounds like
> > > frustration
> > > > > in the making...
> > > > >
> > > > > But while we are on the subject, maybe 
> I can ask a couple of questions
> > > of
> > > > > anybody that has worked with casein. I 
> believe Loris mentioned that the
> > > > > exposure is less than with gum. Is that the case? How much less?
> > > Loris??
> > > > > Any comment? In my case, I cut the 
> exposure back by 20% and the prints
> > > > > still needed some heavy brushing/rubbing/spraying to clear. The
> > > emulsion
> > > > > was rather opaque compared to gum, and 
> the print was rather similar to
> > > a
> > > > > temperaprint. Had the print been on paper, I doubt it would have
> > > survived.
> > > > > So maybe i need to cut the exposure waaaaay back.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Christina Anderson <
> > > zphoto at montana.net>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Yup--did...Lukas seems to be one who 
> has done the process extensively,
> > > and
> > > > >> he was on the list if not still is.
> > > > >> Chris
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Christina Z. Anderson
> > > > >> christinaZanderson.com
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:05 AM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Look at Lukas Werth's prints on 
> Flickr...beautiful and lots of them!
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Anderson" <
> > > > >> zphoto at montana.net>
> > > > >>> To: "Alt List" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> > > > >>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:48 AM
> > > > >>> Subject: [alt-photo] casein
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> (whoops, sent this with the wrong email so sending again)
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Good morning!
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> So I'm on this casein hunt for one silly reason--I blame it on Sam
> > > Wang.
> > > > >> Long ago I saw Sam Wang's caseins and 
> thought them beautiful. Four of
> > > them
> > > > >> are in his book, Sam Wang, Four 
> Decades of Photographic Explorations,
> > > > >> another "must-buy" alt book for just the HUGE amount of alt work
> > > documented
> > > > >> within its pages. Sam's work is very poetic, subtle.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
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