[alt-photo] Re: casein

Peter Blackburn blackburnap at hotmail.com
Sat Feb 26 17:49:16 GMT 2011 

Christina:
 
I am wondering if that snarky person was actually making reference to the well known A.J. Johnson's Universal Cyclopaedia in which there is an entry for casein (caseine). That volume has been printed under a variety of titles and publishers since 1876, I believe. My 1888 edition includes the entry.
 
Keith—nice to hear that your casein printing is successful and using the powder, too! 
 
Peter J. Blackburn


 
> From: zphoto at montana.net
> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 09:56:42 -0700
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> 
> Yay, Keith,
> Glad I brought the subject up.
> This gets even weirder. I went through all notes last night that I had copied from Enos' file, and one of them in there uses straight powdered milk mixed with dichromate and pigment. NO curdling! Another must try. However, I have grading to do before I can play in the dimroom...
> I also was able to find two names of originators--Emil Buhler 1905 and some snarky person said it was already discovered in 1870s by Johnson. If only I were at Eastman House...
> Chris
> 
> Christina Z. Anderson
> christinaZanderson.com
> 
> On Feb 26, 2011, at 9:50 AM, Keith Gerling wrote:
> 
> > Well, count me in a huge fan of casein. I did my first 3 coat gum on paper
> > and it was hugely successful. My previous attempts on treated wood panels
> > were not at all indicative of true potential of this colloid. It is very
> > easy to work with and very forgiving.
> > 
> > FWIW, I mixed up my casein from powder nine months ago and any trace of
> > ammonia smell is masked by the medicinal aroma of the thymol preservative.
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Peter Blackburn <blackburnap at hotmail.com>wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> To Keith, Christina, and all,
> >> 
> >> One advantage to FRESH casein is that (at least in the method I use to make
> >> it) when ready to use, it has no odor—just what I would call a "fresh"
> >> smell. The odor comes later when processing in water. At first, I will get a
> >> mild whiff of "dirty diaper" smell—but it doesn’t last long.
> >> 
> >> Last but not least, in my opinion, casein as a process is more forgiving
> >> and has more latitude than gum. For example, while a print or two is outside
> >> exposing in the sun, I am usually preparing other prints inside or getting
> >> the water bath ready. Sometimes the phone will ring or my daughter will
> >> interrupt me and I will not hear the timer go off. While I'm on the phone or
> >> off in another world, my print(s) are quietly, merrily overexposing. No
> >> worries. Most of the time, the print(s) will still process fine—albeit a
> >> longer soak time, or some help from a dilute ammonia bath, but I can get
> >> away with much more inattention with casein than gum. That's why I compare
> >> gum to classical music and casein to rock n' roll.
> >> 
> >> I do plan to either write of my working methods on
> >> alternativephotography.com or through some other means. For what it's
> >> worth, I did not find dried casein suitable in my approach to printing which
> >> is bold, snappy, and saturated imagery. The characteristics, especially in
> >> pH and viscosity, are different.
> >> 
> >> I hope that helps.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Peter
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 12:47:39 -0600
> >>> From: keith.gerling at gmail.com
> >>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> >>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> >>> 
> >>> Hi Peter,
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks for the info. Whenever you have more time, I would greatly
> >>> appreciate more of your thoughts regarding the advantages of casein. I
> >>> would love to hear about the advantages of fresh casein, as well.
> >>> 
> >>> Christina, I cut the exposure to half that of gum, and it was PERFECT.
> >>> Actually, not a bad print. I think I'll print another coat later and post
> >>> the results.
> >>> 
> >>> Keith
> >>> 
> >>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Peter Blackburn
> >>> <blackburnap at hotmail.com>wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hi Christina and all:
> >>>> 
> >>>> Yes, I do casein quite a bit—much of the time, fact and LOVE IT. It has
> >>>> quite a few advantages over gum with shorter printing times being one.
> >> And
> >>>> since I use the sun, I can work in casein on somewhat cloudy days—days
> >> which
> >>>> would create havoc with gum. It can be blotted dry after processing
> >> with a
> >>>> towel unlike gum which would smear or worse! My casein is pure white
> >> which
> >>>> makes it a bit easier to see and evaluate hue and density during the
> >> mixing
> >>>> stage. Casein is a little more fluid allowing for the use of brushes
> >> usually
> >>>> reserved for inks and dyes. There are a few more advantages which would
> >> take
> >>>> a bit of time to explain. Yes, casein is quite underrated in my
> >> opinion.
> >>>> Casein had been used in primitive painting in ages past. Why gum had
> >> about a
> >>>> fifty-year head start over casein for dichromate printing is a mystery
> >> to
> >>>> me. However, I make my casein fresh directly from cheese which I think
> >> makes
> >>>> ALL the difference in the world. Someday I will get this down in
> >>>> publication.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Hope you are doing well, Christina, in all of your extensive traveling
> >> and
> >>>> teaching. You seem quite busy these days.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Cheers to all!
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Peter J. Blackburn
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>>> From: zphoto at montana.net
> >>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 09:43:44 -0700
> >>>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> >>>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Keith!
> >>>>> Thanks for the info!
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> One casein printer said it was half the gum printing time...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Christina Z. Anderson
> >>>>> christinaZanderson.com
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Keith Gerling wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> I've used the Kremer product and it is cheap and easy. I have not
> >> used
> >>>> it a
> >>>>>> LOT, because I really did not see much advantage of casein over
> >> gum,
> >>>> but
> >>>>>> then I admit that I only used it on wood panels, so the "test" was
> >>>> hardly
> >>>>>> extensive. The results that I got were very interesting and I can
> >>>> certainly
> >>>>>> promise that I will get back to it in the future when it warms up
> >> and I
> >>>> can
> >>>>>> haul my lazy self out to Menards for more wood. At the moment I am
> >>>> printing
> >>>>>> tons of cyanotypes on Masa. Casein on masa? That sounds like
> >>>> frustration
> >>>>>> in the making...
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> But while we are on the subject, maybe I can ask a couple of
> >> questions
> >>>> of
> >>>>>> anybody that has worked with casein. I believe Loris mentioned that
> >> the
> >>>>>> exposure is less than with gum. Is that the case? How much less?
> >>>> Loris??
> >>>>>> Any comment? In my case, I cut the exposure back by 20% and the
> >> prints
> >>>>>> still needed some heavy brushing/rubbing/spraying to clear. The
> >>>> emulsion
> >>>>>> was rather opaque compared to gum, and the print was rather similar
> >> to
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> temperaprint. Had the print been on paper, I doubt it would have
> >>>> survived.
> >>>>>> So maybe i need to cut the exposure waaaaay back.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Christina Anderson <
> >>>> zphoto at montana.net>wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Yup--did...Lukas seems to be one who has done the process
> >> extensively,
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>> he was on the list if not still is.
> >>>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Christina Z. Anderson
> >>>>>>> christinaZanderson.com
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2011, at 9:05 AM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Look at Lukas Werth's prints on Flickr...beautiful and lots of
> >> them!
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Anderson" <
> >>>>>>> zphoto at montana.net>
> >>>>>>>> To: "Alt List" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 7:48 AM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [alt-photo] casein
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> (whoops, sent this with the wrong email so sending again)
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Good morning!
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> So I'm on this casein hunt for one silly reason--I blame it on
> >> Sam
> >>>> Wang.
> >>>>>>> Long ago I saw Sam Wang's caseins and thought them beautiful. Four
> >> of
> >>>> them
> >>>>>>> are in his book, Sam Wang, Four Decades of Photographic
> >> Explorations,
> >>>>>>> another "must-buy" alt book for just the HUGE amount of alt work
> >>>> documented
> >>>>>>> within its pages. Sam's work is very poetic, subtle.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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