[alt-photo] Re: casein

Mon Mar 7 15:05:02 GMT 2011

Hi Keith:

Those are very nice interpretive pieces you posted. As with you, I have not seen the need to switch from gum to casein and enjoy both of them immensely.
But—having said that, I now tend to employ casein more often than gum for the two reasons you mentioned (toweling dry and adding layers before exposing)
and many, many more! I think the user-friendly aspect of casein runs circles around gum. 

Peter J. Blackburn

> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:34:23 -0600
> From: keith.gerling at gmail.com
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> 
> I've been exploring casein since this thread began. Here's a link to three
> prints:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2088679&id=1173961982&l=fefc42482b
> 
> I have to say that there is something almost "wrong" about being able to
> towel them off right out of the water. And the water does stink! I see
> absolutely NO difference between gum and casein in the finished print.
> Coating the emulsion is a little different than with gum. The casein
> emulsion is somewhat thicker than with gum, and as someone said, it can be
> tricky to get it smoothed out before it dries, so I've been using a dry
> brush to "buff" out the brushstrokes, a step that I seldom do with gum
> anymore. I guess you could say that one advantage is that I can actually
> brush another coat of casein emulsion over the top of a coat I've just
> applied but not yet exposed to light. Like when more density is required.
> Trying that with gum invariably causes the underlying layer to dissolve and
> lift.
> 
> All in all, it is a pretty nice process. I cant see any compelling reason
> to switch from gum to casein, but I'm glad I tried it.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Alberto and Peter, for the comments,
> >
> > When viewing Franklin's casein prints in person, it seemed the grain was
> > very fine, miniscule. The colors were brighter but still transparent.
> > Delicate is the word I would describe. And the layer looked very finely
> > grained and very thin. Ultra thin. No gloss anywhere like in a gum print. So
> > those were the differences I perceived in my lowly experience, only seeing a
> > handful of caseins in person.
> >
> > Just think, Alberto, I will be able to see your caseins in person soon!
> > Chris
> >
> > Christina Z. Anderson
> > christinaZanderson.com
> >
> > On Feb 26, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Peter Blackburn wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hello Alberto:
> > >
> > > It's been my experience in gum/casein printing that how a print appears
> > does not necessarily have anything to do with just the vehicle/binder. Here
> > in North Texas we have recently formed an alternative processes group which
> > meets once a month—a wonderful and extremely talented group of artists I
> > must say. I have shown my gum and casein work together side-by-side and no
> > one has been able to tell them apart. They are, or can be,
> > indistinguishable— which my point to them and to you is that gum and casein
> > can be viewed as alternatives to each other. Both are saturated when I want
> > them so, and subdued when the imagery calls for it. It's all based on many
> > factors such as negative preparation, pigment choices, exposure, water bath
> > handling, etc, etc. The only caveat here is that after working with casein
> > for a long time, making it from powdered milk, then from dried casein, and
> > now, directly from cheese, I find the direct method makse a great difference
> > and is the best approach for my work.
> > >
> > > I still consider myself a dedicated gum printer and only resorted to
> > learning casein when several years back the weather did not cooperate for
> > gum printing for many weeks. Sometime in the near future I will blog about
> > that valuable experience and comment more on casein at
> > alternativephotography.com.
> > >
> > > Well, the heavy overcast today prevented both gum and casein printing
> > here in the Dallas area. Cheers all!
> > >
> > > Peter J. Blackburn
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: alt.list at albertonovo.it
> > >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > >> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:23:02 +0100
> > >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> > >>
> > >>> Anyway, I do have a point to share in this email that may be of use to
> > the one or two casein printers in existence: has anyone tried this from
> > Kremer instead of making the somewhat laborious casein/ammonia mixture?
> > SInce it uses borax and is already in suspension, it would seem to be a
> > great substitution. But I'm the first to admit I am an armchair casein
> > printer, never having done it, and certainly would not make it my process of
> > choice because of my commitment to gum.
> > >>
> > >>> I found the patent on casein as well. It is not 271 but patent
> > 2,716,061. 1955. Lupo. But two sources on the web said the process in fact
> > dated from 1908 and don't know about that.
> > >>
> > >> Chris, I made some casein prints some years ago. I tried both casein
> > form
> > >> acidified powdered milk and from pure casein, dissolved in borax and in
> > >> ammonia. I deem the ammonia solution better than that in borax because
> > all
> > >> the excess of ammonia evaporates during drying.
> > >> In muy poor experience, I could define the look of gum and casein print
> > as:
> > >> gum:watercolor=casein:tempera
> > >> My casein prints are in the Rodolfo Namias Group site, but I have to say
> > >> that I was interested chiefly to apply the different behaviour of casein
> > vs.
> > >> gum arabic to a few specific images and one pigment.
> > >>
> > >> As for the patent, I can add that there are lot of patents about using
> > >> alkaline casein and dichromate as a resist for the etching of TV color
> > >> screens, chiefly because casein is insoluble in acids. So, the
> > alkalinizing
> > >> agent (sodium hydroxyde, borax and ammonia), the ratios with dichromate,
> > >> etc. have benn well studied.
> > >>
> > >> And finally, a member of Gruppo Namias tried casein print using my
> > detailed
> > >> notes, but he had very inconsistent results...
> > >>
> > >> Alberto
> > >> www.grupponamias.com
> > >> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group
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