[alt-photo] Re: casein

Tue Mar 8 14:40:49 GMT 2011

Well, thanks for the advice about water.  I suppose we should be very
appreciative that you are willing to share that much!

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Peter Blackburn <blackburnap at hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> Hello All!
>
> My fresh casein has the consistency and appearance of Elmer's Glue—maybe a
> tad thinner, but not much. I'm not sure how much I want to disclose about
> how I make my casein, but the fact that the powder form is difficult to
> dissolve reveals an important Achilles heel to using that method. One thing
> I will say—and this is just my opinion, but water is not your friend in the
> casein process. I take great care to eliminate as much water as I can from
> my casein. Water is NEVER used at any point in my production—zero, zip,
> nada. It's bad enough that water is added when I combine it with dichromate
> just before printing.
>
> Peter J. Blackburn
>
>
> > From: zphoto at montana.net
> > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 21:03:42 -0700
> > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> >
> > Keith,
> > (armchair caseinist here) I got my stuff from Kremer today and it is very
> thick. Enos' recipe is very thin. Enos' is like as thin as half and half,
> maybe even a bit thinner. Kremer's is like thick honey. Do you think that
> might be why it seems not so much different than gum to you? It is so much
> thinner than gum in my experiments and also the look is different: matte-ish
> when exposed, developed, and dried, and holds a huge pigment load for being
> very thin. I guess that relates to the "sturdy" part. I am actually quite
> intrigued with it...
> > Maybe Peter can chime in with how thick his casein solution is that he
> prefers (e.g. using some descriptive term like pours like yogurt, or heavy
> cream, or skim milk, or half and half :))
> > Chris
> >
> > Christina Z. Anderson
> > christinaZanderson.com
> >
> > On Mar 4, 2011, at 1:34 PM, Keith Gerling wrote:
> >
> > > I've been exploring casein since this thread began. Here's a link to
> three
> > > prints:
> > >
> > >
> https://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2088679&id=1173961982&l=fefc42482b
> > >
> > > I have to say that there is something almost "wrong" about being able
> to
> > > towel them off right out of the water. And the water does stink! I see
> > > absolutely NO difference between gum and casein in the finished print.
> > > Coating the emulsion is a little different than with gum. The casein
> > > emulsion is somewhat thicker than with gum, and as someone said, it can
> be
> > > tricky to get it smoothed out before it dries, so I've been using a dry
> > > brush to "buff" out the brushstrokes, a step that I seldom do with gum
> > > anymore. I guess you could say that one advantage is that I can
> actually
> > > brush another coat of casein emulsion over the top of a coat I've just
> > > applied but not yet exposed to light. Like when more density is
> required.
> > > Trying that with gum invariably causes the underlying layer to dissolve
> and
> > > lift.
> > >
> > > All in all, it is a pretty nice process. I cant see any compelling
> reason
> > > to switch from gum to casein, but I'm glad I tried it.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Christina Anderson <
> zphoto at montana.net>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks, Alberto and Peter, for the comments,
> > >>
> > >> When viewing Franklin's casein prints in person, it seemed the grain
> was
> > >> very fine, miniscule. The colors were brighter but still transparent.
> > >> Delicate is the word I would describe. And the layer looked very
> finely
> > >> grained and very thin. Ultra thin. No gloss anywhere like in a gum
> print. So
> > >> those were the differences I perceived in my lowly experience, only
> seeing a
> > >> handful of caseins in person.
> > >>
> > >> Just think, Alberto, I will be able to see your caseins in person
> soon!
> > >> Chris
> > >>
> > >> Christina Z. Anderson
> > >> christinaZanderson.com
> > >>
> > >> On Feb 26, 2011, at 2:52 PM, Peter Blackburn wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello Alberto:
> > >>>
> > >>> It's been my experience in gum/casein printing that how a print
> appears
> > >> does not necessarily have anything to do with just the vehicle/binder.
> Here
> > >> in North Texas we have recently formed an alternative processes group
> which
> > >> meets once a month—a wonderful and extremely talented group of artists
> I
> > >> must say. I have shown my gum and casein work together side-by-side
> and no
> > >> one has been able to tell them apart. They are, or can be,
> > >> indistinguishable— which my point to them and to you is that gum and
> casein
> > >> can be viewed as alternatives to each other. Both are saturated when I
> want
> > >> them so, and subdued when the imagery calls for it. It's all based on
> many
> > >> factors such as negative preparation, pigment choices, exposure, water
> bath
> > >> handling, etc, etc. The only caveat here is that after working with
> casein
> > >> for a long time, making it from powdered milk, then from dried casein,
> and
> > >> now, directly from cheese, I find the direct method makse a great
> difference
> > >> and is the best approach for my work.
> > >>>
> > >>> I still consider myself a dedicated gum printer and only resorted to
> > >> learning casein when several years back the weather did not cooperate
> for
> > >> gum printing for many weeks. Sometime in the near future I will blog
> about
> > >> that valuable experience and comment more on casein at
> > >> alternativephotography.com.
> > >>>
> > >>> Well, the heavy overcast today prevented both gum and casein printing
> > >> here in the Dallas area. Cheers all!
> > >>>
> > >>> Peter J. Blackburn
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> From: alt.list at albertonovo.it
> > >>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > >>>> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:23:02 +0100
> > >>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Anyway, I do have a point to share in this email that may be of use
> to
> > >> the one or two casein printers in existence: has anyone tried this
> from
> > >> Kremer instead of making the somewhat laborious casein/ammonia
> mixture?
> > >> SInce it uses borax and is already in suspension, it would seem to be
> a
> > >> great substitution. But I'm the first to admit I am an armchair casein
> > >> printer, never having done it, and certainly would not make it my
> process of
> > >> choice because of my commitment to gum.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I found the patent on casein as well. It is not 271 but patent
> > >> 2,716,061. 1955. Lupo. But two sources on the web said the process in
> fact
> > >> dated from 1908 and don't know about that.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Chris, I made some casein prints some years ago. I tried both casein
> > >> form
> > >>>> acidified powdered milk and from pure casein, dissolved in borax and
> in
> > >>>> ammonia. I deem the ammonia solution better than that in borax
> because
> > >> all
> > >>>> the excess of ammonia evaporates during drying.
> > >>>> In muy poor experience, I could define the look of gum and casein
> print
> > >> as:
> > >>>> gum:watercolor=casein:tempera
> > >>>> My casein prints are in the Rodolfo Namias Group site, but I have to
> say
> > >>>> that I was interested chiefly to apply the different behaviour of
> casein
> > >> vs.
> > >>>> gum arabic to a few specific images and one pigment.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As for the patent, I can add that there are lot of patents about
> using
> > >>>> alkaline casein and dichromate as a resist for the etching of TV
> color
> > >>>> screens, chiefly because casein is insoluble in acids. So, the
> > >> alkalinizing
> > >>>> agent (sodium hydroxyde, borax and ammonia), the ratios with
> dichromate,
> > >>>> etc. have benn well studied.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And finally, a member of Gruppo Namias tried casein print using my
> > >> detailed
> > >>>> notes, but he had very inconsistent results...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Alberto
> > >>>> www.grupponamias.com
> > >>>>
> www.alternativephotography.com/wp/photographers/rodolfo-namias-group
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>
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