[alt-photo] Re: an alternative to alternative
Mark Nelson
ender100 at aol.com
Tue Apr 3 14:21:02 GMT 2012
Hehehe
Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
On Apr 2, 2012, at 5:25 AM, "KISS BOB" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
> DEAR DIANA, LORIS, & MARK,
> You have no idea how much your kind words lift my spirits!
> Lest you think me impractical, when it comes to applying for grants, I DO stack the deck (of my prints) to appeal to their particular preferences but I don't MAKE images and prints for them. I make what I am motivated to make then search through my work to find what might tweak their noses best. There is a very big difference between MAKING work for the PAL or to please a selection committee and remaining true to your vision and then sorting through your body of work to show them that part of your work that best appeals to their sensibilities.
> I can't remember which philosopher or zen master said, "I must live IN this world but I shall not be OF this world". Perhaps I wax too philosophical here but blame it on the Tramadol (quite like the bossa nova of pain killers)! And, when waxing philosophical I can never decide if I should use Renaissance or Dorland's wax. As Mark is known to say, "He he he"!
> CHEERS!
> BOB
>
>
> On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 20:22:21 -0700
> Mark Nelson <ender100 at aol.com> wrote:
>> Heal Quickly Bob!
>> Mark Nelson
>> www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
>> PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
>> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>> sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
>> On Apr 1, 2012, at 12:36 PM, "KISS BOB" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
>>> DEAR DIANA,
>>> I think we agree on everything. I was pointing out two different things:
>>> 1) I was refuting the suggestion (not yours, that of the aforementioned gallery owner) that people who buy photo prints don't care about the print medium.
>>> 2) I was pointing out that the gallery owner who shows some of my prints agrees with us...EDUCATION is 90% of selling prints, once a viewer has expressed interest.
>>> I agree with you completely and would never suggest that we should not invite the PAL to see our work and, with education, turn as many as possible into savvy collectors. But we must NOT allow the PAL to influence the medium in which we express our vision. We must do creatively what we must do and hope that our audience will continue to buy while evangelising our beloved media to the PAL.
>>> *****Please note that I am recovering from total left hip replacement two weeks ago and still taking strong painkillers. If I make less sense than usual, please forgive me. Who knows, perhaps I make MORE sense while taking these things! ;-))
>>> CHEERS!
>>> BOB
>>> On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 14:06:12 -0400
>>> Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>> I don't think I'd disagree with anything you say here, and I definitely agree with your last sentence, in particular.
>>>> I will add, though, that while savvy collectors are absolutely what we'd all like to cultivate, I certainly don't spurn the Public at Large (PAL). At some earlier point in their lives, those savvy collectors were the PAL. So, to educate the PAL, many of whom are genuinely interested in art and in photography, specifically, would/should be a purposeful goal. Doing so might just transform them into savvy collectors of 'historic/alt' prints.
>>>> I personally have always loved traditional printmaking, and through the years, I've amassed a nice little collection of mezzotints. When I first became enamored with them, though, I just simply liked the look of them. Most I saw were relatively small, and I just thought they were like perfect little jewels. The more I saw, the more I was intrigued, and-- ultimately-- I became more interested in and educated about the specific labor-intensive process itself. But what drew me to them in the first place was simply the look of them. At the time, I could have cared less about all the gritty details about how they were made. I think a lot of collectors start out that way.
>>>> So I would hope for a dealer or gallerist to welcome ALL potential clients who walk through their door (not just already established collectors), and with the help of the artist, educate them in the process. Otherwise, I think a great opportunity will be sorely missed.
>>>> Diana
>>>> On Apr 1, 2012, at 11:28 AM, KISS BOB wrote:
>>>>> DEAR MARK,
>>>>> I tend to agree with you on this. The dealer who shows some of my prints in NYC was also my Prof of History and Aesthetics of Photo at RIT all those decades ago. He did his Masters at Visual Studies Workshop with Beaumont Newhall and Nathan Lyons as his thesis advisers. He also held an important chair in the Grad Photo Dept at Pratt for over a decade. He has had a successful photo gallery in NYC for over 30 years. I mention all of this just to suggest that he might know of what he speaks.
>>>>> 1) He ALWAYS told me to distinguish between "the public at large" (PAL) and "your audience" (YA). The PAL won't know or care about the processes but YA will! Mass market vs. YOUR market.
>>>>> 2) He said no one ever comes in and says, "Take me to your gum prints". They ask for certain subject matter or the work of one photographer and he shows them that plus other related work.
>>>>> 3) He said every one buys because they love the image but they pay a given price because of so many OTHER aspects such as PRINT MEDIUM (pt vs silver, etc), print number in the edition, the quality of the printing, the condition of the print, the fame/notoriety of the photographer, and so many other things. So, to the collector, print medium IS an important aspect of why they buy and what they are willing to pay. To a truly savvy collector it may be an extremely important aspect.
>>>>> 4) He said that selling photographic prints is 10% hype and 90% education. E.g., he might see someone admiring an Evans' Sea of Steps. He would say, "Amazing movement in that image! And quite significant in early 20th C photography. And this is one of the best examples of a platinum print from that era." He then sits back and answers all of the questions stimulated by his three short sentences contributing a few more details if the client shows more interest. Mostly education with a VERY little hype.
>>>>> Now, if one's intention is to sell to the PAL make LARGE, highly saturated, inkjet prints mounted on aluminum and stand them up in any gallery. There is nothing at all wrong with this if it is what you want to do but, if that is what list members wanted to do, then why are we donning our latex/vinyl gloves and respirators, handling toxic and ridiculously expensive chemicals, and trying to minimize our exposure to plate burner UV a few times a day? We must be highly motivated to make something special. Now this may be our own problem but there IS an AUDIENCE out there for each of us, perhaps not the public at large.
>>>>> Having been an advertising and fashion photog in NYC and Europe from 1974 to 1993 (when I moved here to Barbados) I have had more than enough of applying my creativity to reaching the public at large. I shoot what moves me and print it in whatever medium I feel best carries the feeling that made me want to make the image in the first place. The most interesting discovery I ever made since 1993 is, the more deeply personal my motivation for making an image and print, the more it seems to resonate in the soul of my audience and the more prints I sell.
>>>>> CHEERS
>>>>> BOB
>>>>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:35:13 -0700
>>>>> Mark Nelson <ender100 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I really don't think he knows what he is talking about. Mark Nelson
>>>>>> www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
>>>>>> PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
>>>>>> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
>>>>>> sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2012, at 11:10 AM, Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I've had so many conversations with my gallery owner here about this, and while he shows a ton of printmaking (mezzotints, monotypes, etc), and certainly makes distinctions there-- he is insistent that with photography, it doesn't really matter how an image is printed (nor what camera was used-- which we don't typically point out)-- what matters is how strong the final image is, and how it resonates with the viewer. He admits that the WAY in which an image is printed is certainly part of the final look, of course, but he maintains no one really cares-- ultimately-- about the specific printing method. Yes-- he's a real gem-- but, sadly, I think he's speaking the truth.
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