[alt-photo] Fwd: salt printing and contrast

Christina Anderson zphoto at montana.net
Sat Aug 25 13:46:02 GMT 2012 

Here's a message from John, below....
Chris
Christina Z. Anderson
christinaZanderson.com

Begin forwarded message:

> From: John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography at gmail.com>
> Date: August 25, 2012 2:05:22 AM MDT
> To: Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>
> Subject: Fwd: salt printing and contrast
> 
> Hi Chris
> 
> I can't seem to post to the list via my phone and I'm away. Below is an email I tried to send. 
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> John
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography at gmail.com>
>> Date: 23 August 2012 21:04:37 GMT+01:00
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
>> Subject: salt printing and contrast
>> 
>> Hi Chris
>> 
>>> One thing I am puzzling with is Young's use of the word "contrast." If a certain solution is faster in exposure, she then equates it with lower contrast. Now, I could be the one confused but I have always understood contrast to be separate from exposure. Once maximum black and maximum white are achieved, the number of steps between the two is either fewer (more contrasty) or greater (less contrasty) but if comparing faster and slower solutions this gives a false read. 
>> 
>> This works with other alt processes as a contrast control. Try it with cyanotype or plat/plad. Block some uv light with say tracing paper or velum and you'll see an increase in contrast as the exposure lengthens. The Victorians knew this and to increase contrast put printing frames in the shadow rather than direct sunlight. This I think is one of many reasons why third party curves don't work.
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> John. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 23 Aug 2012, at 19:28, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Darryl,
>>> 
>>> Can I quote you :)? I am thrilled to find someone really doing salt on this list, separate from albumen anyway...
>>> 
>>> Do you find salt a longer tonal range than pt/pd?
>>> 
>>> What is your choice of fixing bath and time?
>>> 
>>> So the amount of silver nitrate influences color...you would have to be, therefore, exact with your drop-to-sq.-inch count to get similar color, right?
>>> 
>>> One thing I am puzzling with is Young's use of the word "contrast." If a certain solution is faster in exposure, she then equates it with lower contrast. Now, I could be the one confused but I have always understood contrast to be separate from exposure. Once maximum black and maximum white are achieved, the number of steps between the two is either fewer (more contrasty) or greater (less contrasty) but if comparing faster and slower solutions this gives a false read. 
>>> 
>>> That would be like, in the B&W darkroom, exposing a grade 0 paper and a grade 5 paper the same time and comparing the papers' contrast. 
>>> 
>>> I would first get the standard printing time (SPT) and then compare the number of steps. But I could totally have it wrong all these years. PLEASE correct me??
>>> 
>>> I have the PDF, and just ordered the book, but thanks for the offer. I wanted to see the step wedges in print.
>>> 
>>> I do like her clear method of writing and testing.
>>> 
>>> An off-lister suggested Ware's article on salt, too.
>>> 
>>> OH, one other thing. I was able to see Panera and Hajicek's giant salt print photograms done in the sunlight at F295 a few years back. Now THEY were stunning. And of course Dan Estabrook's work is a favorite of mine. Jesseca Ferguson as well.
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> Christina Z. Anderson
>>> christinaZanderson.com
>>> 
>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 12:09 PM, Darryl Baird wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Chris, I spent a good portion of this year working on getting salt
>>>> printing "down" and I've discovered there isn't a single formula
>>>> published that works completely as "advertised" in any of the sources
>>>> you've just cited. Young's work is, by far, the most complete, yet there
>>>> are gaps or things a little glossed over. I revised Young's formula
>>>> (using Potassium Chloride) with a couple of additives in the sizing, and
>>>> a minor modification in the hypo stage. I was happy... notice the past
>>>> tense. 
>>>> 
>>>> Young published her research as a dissertation first, then
>>>> revised it into the pdf "manual." I have both if you'd like a copy of
>>>> the former. 
>>>> 
>>>> One of the latest finds (for me) is a statement by Reilly
>>>> about the color also being determined by the amount of silver used
>>>> (retained in the paper) in making any image. It made perfect sense that
>>>> the final amount of silver within the image being toned would have an
>>>> affect on the final color. This one little "detail" sent me over the top
>>>> considering I want EVERY print I produce in a portfolio to match in
>>>> color. So, my next challenge is to manage a method to estimate the
>>>> amount of total silver present and adjust either my toning time or
>>>> volume for each image. PITA I'd already resorted to a single-shot
>>>> solution for each step, never reusing chemistry in order to narrow or
>>>> eliminate the color variables from each. 
>>>> 
>>>>> From Reilly, Chapter 8:
>>>> Toning 
>>>> "Among the factors which influence the outcome of the toning
>>>> operation are the pH of the binder (gelatin, arrowroot, albumen, etc.)
>>>> materials used, the pH of the silver solution, **the amount of silver
>>>> deposited to form the image,** the thoroughness of the initial wash in
>>>> processing, the pH of the toning solution, the presence of other
>>>> substances in the toning solution, the strength of the gold solution,
>>>> its temperature, its age, and the time of immersion of the print."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Steve Achell has some helpful advice in this document... it was
>>>> helpful in some of my formula
>>>> changes.
>>>> http://steveanchell.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34%3Asalted-paper&catid=15%3Aoutput-darkroom-and-lightroom&Itemid=39
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> and
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/pop-printing-out-process/printing-out-processes
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm also going to start a new printing test using fumed silica.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Darryl 
>>>> 
>>>> On 2012-08-23 09:50, Christina Anderson wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear
>>>> All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have been reading through Ellie Young's salt printing manual
>>>> and am very impressed with the testing she has completed. The usual
>>>> expert document is quoted as Reilly's and to read both of them together
>>>> is a good thing, because Young has some visual proof where Reilly's text
>>>> may be incorrect. Wish I would have read Young back in 2006.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In
>>>> researching salt for a revision of my salt chapter, I am amazed at how
>>>> at every step in the process there is conflicting advice, whether
>>>> something is warmer or cooler using this or that substance, how strong a
>>>> bath to use for fixing or washing or whatnot...
>>>>> 
>>>>> In searching the
>>>> list archives, there is actually very little on salted paper compared to
>>>> other processes, but the main continual issue that cropped up was
>>>> staining and fading of prints, and Ellie's manual addresses the whys of
>>>> this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I noticed last night when googling it that it is available on
>>>> Amazon here and also on the alternativephotography.com website here:
>>>>> 
>>>> http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/saltprints/the-salt-print-manual
>>>>> 
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Salt-Print-Manual-Ellie-Young/dp/144528328X
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> For some reason, and don't know how long I have had it, I have a PDF of
>>>> it from the web, so at one point it was free. In any case, I want to
>>>> give credit to her for her research and did buy the book (I can't stand
>>>> reading PDFs).
>>>>> 
>>>>> It seems between Reilly, James' chapter on salt in
>>>> his book, and Young's book there isn't too much other current literature
>>>> on the process, unless it is just lumped under albumen which is quite
>>>> popular. OH and Ed Buffaloe's article on unblinkingeye.com which BTW
>>>> includes a CASEIN sizing for the salt print I am dying to experiment
>>>> with, because it would be matte like casein is, and like Reilly talks
>>>> about in his book with matte albumen. And alternativephotography.com
>>>> here:
>>>> http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/saltprints/a-dash-of-salt
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Happy fall to everyone!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris
>>>>> 
>>>>> Christina Z. Anderson
>>>>> 
>>>> christinaZanderson.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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