[alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers

BOB KISS bobkiss at caribsurf.com
Tue Jan 3 16:29:54 GMT 2012


DEAR ERIC,
	Re: the vicissitudes of working with chemistry, do you recall if it
was Sandy King or Mike Ware who quotes on all his e-mails, "You can always
tell people who work with chemistry...they wash their hands BEFORE they go
to the bathroom!"  Amen!
		CHEERS!
			BOB

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Eric Neilsen
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:11 PM
To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers

Mark and Bob, When Bob asked the list several weeks back for a method to
check for clearing, I did some asking around. I am fortunate to have an art
conservator just down the hall where my studio is located. The materials we
talked about were expensive and permanently staining. I will once again ask
her the name of it/them and get back to the list.  

The clearing steps seem simple enough but I think we need to caution users
not to just mix these solutions and start playing around. This is not
because they are extremely hazardous by themselves but when used in
combination, can produce some rather noxious gases. The acids by themselves
can be hazardous. And this is why some are hesitant to spread chemical ideas
and knowledge freely/loosely on the net, these things can kill you. That's
not to say that they will but not actually being with someone, or at least
talking to them, some lab folks have atrocious practices; see Bill Jays book
on early photo practices, 'Cyanide and Spirits'. 

Rinsing in-between acids and the EDTA solutions, and/or Hypo Clear
solutions, with water is HIGHLY recommended.


Eric Neilsen
4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
214-827-8301

www.ericneilsenphotography.com
SKYPE ejprinter


-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
BOB KISS
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:47 AM
To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers

DEAR MARK,
	Yes, I did receive your e-mail, thanks, and finally got around to
checking it out.  I am hoping that some of the chem gurus like Eric Neilsen
might let us all know if it will work for our purposes.  Here is the link.

http://www.preservationequipment.com/Store/Products/Conservation-Materials/O
ther-Materials/Iron-Gall-Ink-Test-Paper  

	Standing by to see if this is a good test for clearing...
		CHEERS!
			BOB

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Nelson Mark
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:49 PM
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers

Dear List,

Boy, every time I would start to write a thanks for the responses, I would
fine another response!  I appreciate everyone's feedback.  Obviously the
list is still very responsive and full of good information from a lot of
people!  By the way, I posted the same exact question 3 places on Facebook
and got only a few responses and very little discussion.  People tend to
only post their work there.

My reason for posting this question was a phone call I had recently with
Dick Arentz.  He mentioned that he had some correspondence from someone who
was doing a summer internship at the Art Institute in Chicago.  The project
had to do with testing the archival qualities of their Pt/Pd collection.  If
I remember Dick's comment correctly, they were concerned because the prints
didn't turn out to be quite as archival as they thought.  I would love to
get more information from them about that.  Anyone have a contact there?  I
have a membership and was thinking of making an appointment with the
Photography department there and seeing if they would talk about what they
found out more specifically.  It sounds like from what folks have said here
that many of these prints might have been cleared with HCL, however
regardless of method, there is always the chance of error or sloppiness.

Bob, did you get the info I sent you regarding the Iron Gall Test paper?Iron
Gall Ink Test Paper - Preservation Equipment

Eric, thanks for that history of workflows.  That was very informative.
What is the test for iron you referred to that might leave a blue stain? 

Has anyone tried the Iron Gall Test? That shows a red stain.

I remember a conversation with Sandy King a few years ago and he mentioned
that one thing he always watches is how well his prints clear in the
developer.  That has always stuck with me.  In addition, I do find that the
prints clear some during the initial water rinse after developer at my
studio.  I know this is a problem for some folks with slightly alkaline tap
water.  

In general, while it appears that there are a number of workflows that are
working fine for different folks, there is not a whole lot of change in
practice in recent years.  True?

Thanks again to everyone for your responses.

Happy New Year!

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

Welcome to the Precision Digital Negatives Home!
PDNPrint : Precision Digital Negatives Forum Mark I. Nelson Photography -
Welcome

On Jan 2, 2012, at 8:52 AM, EJ Photo wrote:

> Well, the clearing of prints has indeed evolved over time. When I 
> first learned to print, it was HCL all the way; three baths, all mixed 
> the same, use it so that the last one was clear - no color. And yes, 
> the first bath would indeed get cloudy and colored so later in my 
> practice I cleared with distilled water rinse, then acid.  Citric 
> Acid, Oxalic acid had their
place,
> but HCL was cheap and did the job. Along came the late 80, and early 
> nineties and I saw Ware's paper on pt/pd printing, and hear of 
> additional uses of EDTA, sodium sulfite. These are both in hypo 
> clearing agent and
did
> seem to make some sense. 
> 
> Progressive baths from disodium to tetrasodium EDTA moves from acid to 
> basic. One need only feel the paper after a clearing in HCL compared 
> to
EDTA
> and other acid to know that the paper structure was changed by the 
> HCL; it is now stiffer.  Having had many conversations and seeing 
> prints at John Stevenson's Gallery in Santa Fe, Platinum Plus many of 
> us moved away from straight HCL or acids to less aggressive clearing 
> agents. Some of that old time staining was part of the print, at least 
> for those made in the early period of printing and those selling them were
not bothered by it.
> 
> How clear is clear and at what cost to the paper? 
> 
> Tests on your process can be done with sample prints to avoid the blue
stain
> that comes with many of the residual test.    
> 
> Eric Neilsen
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
> skype me with ejprinter
> Let's Talk Photography
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
> Behalf
Of
> etienne garbaux
> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:48 PM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
> 
> Loris wrote:
> 
>> I remember to read that HCl severes some of the H bonds in the 
>> cellulose molecule, that's no good - especially in the context of 
>> pt/pd printing, where the image is stronger than the support.
> 
> Again, all of the antique Pt prints that were cleared in HCl and to 
> this day show no apparent degradation of the paper suggest that, at 
> the very least, any macro damage from the practice can be held to 
> imperceptible levels with careful processing.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> etienne
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> 
> _______________________________________________
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