[alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers

Tue Jan 3 16:53:48 GMT 2012

Bob,

Especially with Silver Nitrate!  You could end up having a hard time explaining stains in weird places!

Hehehe

Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy

On Jan 3, 2012, at 10:29 AM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:

> DEAR ERIC,
>    Re: the vicissitudes of working with chemistry, do you recall if it
> was Sandy King or Mike Ware who quotes on all his e-mails, "You can always
> tell people who work with chemistry...they wash their hands BEFORE they go
> to the bathroom!"  Amen!
>        CHEERS!
>            BOB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Neilsen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:11 PM
> To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
> 
> Mark and Bob, When Bob asked the list several weeks back for a method to
> check for clearing, I did some asking around. I am fortunate to have an art
> conservator just down the hall where my studio is located. The materials we
> talked about were expensive and permanently staining. I will once again ask
> her the name of it/them and get back to the list.  
> 
> The clearing steps seem simple enough but I think we need to caution users
> not to just mix these solutions and start playing around. This is not
> because they are extremely hazardous by themselves but when used in
> combination, can produce some rather noxious gases. The acids by themselves
> can be hazardous. And this is why some are hesitant to spread chemical ideas
> and knowledge freely/loosely on the net, these things can kill you. That's
> not to say that they will but not actually being with someone, or at least
> talking to them, some lab folks have atrocious practices; see Bill Jays book
> on early photo practices, 'Cyanide and Spirits'. 
> 
> Rinsing in-between acids and the EDTA solutions, and/or Hypo Clear
> solutions, with water is HIGHLY recommended.
> 
> 
> Eric Neilsen
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 214-827-8301
> 
> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
> SKYPE ejprinter
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> BOB KISS
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:47 AM
> To: 'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
> 
> DEAR MARK,
>    Yes, I did receive your e-mail, thanks, and finally got around to
> checking it out.  I am hoping that some of the chem gurus like Eric Neilsen
> might let us all know if it will work for our purposes.  Here is the link.
> 
> http://www.preservationequipment.com/Store/Products/Conservation-Materials/O
> ther-Materials/Iron-Gall-Ink-Test-Paper  
> 
>    Standing by to see if this is a good test for clearing...
>        CHEERS!
>            BOB
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Nelson Mark
> Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 3:49 PM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
> 
> Dear List,
> 
> Boy, every time I would start to write a thanks for the responses, I would
> fine another response!  I appreciate everyone's feedback.  Obviously the
> list is still very responsive and full of good information from a lot of
> people!  By the way, I posted the same exact question 3 places on Facebook
> and got only a few responses and very little discussion.  People tend to
> only post their work there.
> 
> My reason for posting this question was a phone call I had recently with
> Dick Arentz.  He mentioned that he had some correspondence from someone who
> was doing a summer internship at the Art Institute in Chicago.  The project
> had to do with testing the archival qualities of their Pt/Pd collection.  If
> I remember Dick's comment correctly, they were concerned because the prints
> didn't turn out to be quite as archival as they thought.  I would love to
> get more information from them about that.  Anyone have a contact there?  I
> have a membership and was thinking of making an appointment with the
> Photography department there and seeing if they would talk about what they
> found out more specifically.  It sounds like from what folks have said here
> that many of these prints might have been cleared with HCL, however
> regardless of method, there is always the chance of error or sloppiness.
> 
> Bob, did you get the info I sent you regarding the Iron Gall Test paper?Iron
> Gall Ink Test Paper - Preservation Equipment
> 
> Eric, thanks for that history of workflows.  That was very informative.
> What is the test for iron you referred to that might leave a blue stain? 
> 
> Has anyone tried the Iron Gall Test? That shows a red stain.
> 
> I remember a conversation with Sandy King a few years ago and he mentioned
> that one thing he always watches is how well his prints clear in the
> developer.  That has always stuck with me.  In addition, I do find that the
> prints clear some during the initial water rinse after developer at my
> studio.  I know this is a problem for some folks with slightly alkaline tap
> water.  
> 
> In general, while it appears that there are a number of workflows that are
> working fine for different folks, there is not a whole lot of change in
> practice in recent years.  True?
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for your responses.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Mark Nelson
> 
> Welcome to the Precision Digital Negatives Home!
> PDNPrint : Precision Digital Negatives Forum Mark I. Nelson Photography -
> Welcome
> 
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 8:52 AM, EJ Photo wrote:
> 
>> Well, the clearing of prints has indeed evolved over time. When I 
>> first learned to print, it was HCL all the way; three baths, all mixed 
>> the same, use it so that the last one was clear - no color. And yes, 
>> the first bath would indeed get cloudy and colored so later in my 
>> practice I cleared with distilled water rinse, then acid.  Citric 
>> Acid, Oxalic acid had their
> place,
>> but HCL was cheap and did the job. Along came the late 80, and early 
>> nineties and I saw Ware's paper on pt/pd printing, and hear of 
>> additional uses of EDTA, sodium sulfite. These are both in hypo 
>> clearing agent and
> did
>> seem to make some sense. 
>> 
>> Progressive baths from disodium to tetrasodium EDTA moves from acid to 
>> basic. One need only feel the paper after a clearing in HCL compared 
>> to
> EDTA
>> and other acid to know that the paper structure was changed by the 
>> HCL; it is now stiffer.  Having had many conversations and seeing 
>> prints at John Stevenson's Gallery in Santa Fe, Platinum Plus many of 
>> us moved away from straight HCL or acids to less aggressive clearing 
>> agents. Some of that old time staining was part of the print, at least 
>> for those made in the early period of printing and those selling them were
> not bothered by it.
>> 
>> How clear is clear and at what cost to the paper? 
>> 
>> Tests on your process can be done with sample prints to avoid the blue
> stain
>> that comes with many of the residual test.    
>> 
>> Eric Neilsen
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> 
>> www.ericneilsenphotography.com
>> skype me with ejprinter
>> Let's Talk Photography
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
>> Behalf
> Of
>> etienne garbaux
>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 4:48 PM
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Question for Platinum/Palladium printers
>> 
>> Loris wrote:
>> 
>>> I remember to read that HCl severes some of the H bonds in the 
>>> cellulose molecule, that's no good - especially in the context of 
>>> pt/pd printing, where the image is stronger than the support.
>> 
>> Again, all of the antique Pt prints that were cleared in HCl and to 
>> this day show no apparent degradation of the paper suggest that, at 
>> the very least, any macro damage from the practice can be held to 
>> imperceptible levels with careful processing.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> etienne
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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