[alt-photo] Re: sizing options for color gum

[Christina Anderson]

Henry,

I remember when you first started posting on this list! Your last name is just too characteristic to forget.

Not only that, in reading the archives I came across when Loris first posted, and look at him now! Probably one of few experts in Turkey.

I also noticed that one of the very first posts Mark Nelson made, or shortly thereafter, was a reference to his "lucky shorts."

Yes, isn't the list wonderful. 

Reading books is one thing, but being able to ask practitioners what paper they use, what they think this problem is, those kinds of things just aren't in books, probably because those who don't self-publish have editors who remove half the book or something...or maybe just because this kind of sharing of experience has only come lately with the www so it wasn't there to write about. But it had to have been so in the salons of the day.

I find myself getting up in the morning, needing to get my work done, and instead reading the list and writing to the list as a much better diversion and perhaps use of my time. 

My next project for the alt revision is to create a paper chart...all the different papers out there and what processes each are good for. The problem with doing this on my own is there is NO way I could test 20 papers in 10 processes and live to tell the tale. Thus...the list....and the archives...but wouldn't that be helpful???

OH SHOOT tho, I have to follow the subject line and that is, that it is a PITA to prefer gelatin size and I wish I didn't feel that way. The time it takes often outweighs its benefit over PVA.

My biggest concern (probably only concern) is whether ultimately the layer of gum will be as stable on the PVA paper as it is with gelatin size. We have gum prints from 100 years ago that are perfect, and I see no problem with the PVA sized prints yet. 

And I don't prefer the feel of it much. 

So ultimately I think it is just an issue of getting used to a different feel and practice.

If I didn't feel it was a good size I wouldn't be teaching it...

Thanks so much for sharing your notes about it, Henry. At least there is another soul out there who feels the same and I'm not nuts.

Oh, one more thing. Formalin, huh. You know what I wonder? All this worry about using formalin in a well-ventilated room. I wonder how medical schools deal with the cadaver situation--do they worry about toxicity like we do.

Now I really gotta go to work.
Chris

Christina Z. Anderson
christinaZanderson.com

On Jan 18, 2012, at 4:39 AM, Henry Rattle wrote:

> Hi - a year or two back I did some comparisons between PVA and my normal
> sizing of 3% food gelatin brushed on with formalin in a well-ventilated
> room. I use Saunders Waterford HP or Fabriano Artistico traditional white
> CP, and these tests were with 3-colour prints coated in the order Winsor
> Yellow - WN Permanent Rose - Winsor Blue (green shade).
> 
> The conclusions in my notebook were:
> 
> PVA sizing is very quick and easy, and the paper curls less than with
> gelatin.
> 
> At full strength, the Gamblin PVA-sized paper was hard to coat evenly with
> gum/pigment - lots of fish-eyes and lots of brushing needed (with gelatin,
> the gum goes on with relatively little brushing). Clearing the gum coat
> after exposure was almost too easy.
> 
> With 1+1 dilution of the PVA, gum coats went on better. 1+2 was harder to
> clear. Clearing was OK, but the final texture of the prints, viewed close
> up, was noticeably less smooth with the PVA than with gelatin. The print
> texture is "speckled" - maybe I did't coat the PVA well enough - but I
> preferred the smoother final texture of the gelatin-sized print. Of course,
> as Chris pointed out, PVA is a lot less hassle than coating with hot, smelly
> gelatin!
> 
> I'll give it another go - and next time I think I'll try Diana's approach of
> sizing only after the first colour layer. What a great source of inspiration
> this list is!
> 
> Best wishes to you all
> 
> Henry
> 
> 
> On 17/01/2012 14:08, "Peter Blackburn" <blackburnap at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Fair enough, to each his or her own. I originally kept an iron around as a
>> "quick fix" to help flatten papers which exhibited too much curl and buckling.
>> 
>> Peter J. Blackburn
>> 
>>> From: dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net
>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 08:51:52 -0500
>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: sizing options for color gum
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Peter.
>>> 
>>> I actually did all but #3 on your list.  Honestly, I don't even think
>>> I own an iron (and don't plan on buying one any time soon).
>>> 
>>> The final coat  (unsized) was actually fine; I certainly would have
>>> had no problem exhibiting it.  In a side-by-side comparison, though, I
>>> simply didn't like it as much as the one I made with a thin coating of
>>> PVA, so -- as stated before-- I'll happily go back to using that.  My
>>> preference is subjective, for sure; I could have shown it to someone
>>> else, and he/she may have liked the other better.
>>> 
>>> And I don't actually find using PVA a problem-- at all.  It's non-
>>> toxic, relatively inexpensive, lasts forever, extraordinarily easy to
>>> use, doesn't leave a shine when I apply it, and takes very little time
>>> to apply (certainly less time than ironing-- though, at this point, I
>>> can barely remember what ironing is like??).
>>> 
>>> Thanks again.
>>> 
>>> Diana
>>> 
>>> On Jan 17, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Peter Blackburn wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Just a brief follow up on this portion of Diana's comment,  "I know
>>>> you're already aware of all this, and this isn't specifically
>>>>> what you asked--  but I also recently printed an image on Fabriano
>>>>> soft-press without sizing all, using what was only in the paper.  It
>>>>> did really well, though I felt the third coat wasn't as "clean" as I
>>>>> would have preferred-- so I just went back to using the PVA.  I just
>>>>> know for sure, using that, that I won't have a problem." My
>>>>> suggestions would be 1) be certain the chosen pigments are capable
>>>>> of printing "clean" on out-of-the-package Fabriano if brilliant
>>>>> highlights are desired. 2) be certain the paper is completely dry
>>>>> between coats, and 3) before applying an additional coat, try
>>>>> ironing the paper with the iron set on a midrange heat selection.
>>>>> AKD is a type of synthetic wax which "melts" under heat. Ironing
>>>>> the paper will restore a bit of smoothness while rejuvenating the
>>>>> residing AKD in the paper.  Cheers everyone!
>>>> Peter J. Blackburn
>>> 
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