[alt-photo] Re: Sawdust question

Fri Jul 20 14:56:16 GMT 2012

Stella,

I have not done that yet. I have tried sawdust development for gum at one time. The traditional method was to pur sawdust slurry over a print fixed to a support and placed at an angle. . I used a flalt bottom tray with a print at the bottom and some sawdust in the tray and just sloshing or jerking tray around to get the sawdust move about surface of the print. there might be people on the list that have learned it from actual practitioners in the way back days. There is some older references of Fresson papers that have good instructions for developing with sawdust.

Marek

> From: stellaps at cableone.net
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:54:41 -0600
> Subject: [alt-photo] Sawdust question
> 
> Marek,
> I am curious to know how you use the sawdust to develop casein.
> Stella
> 
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:31:25 +0000
> From: Marek Matusz <marekmatusz at hotmail.com>
> To: alt photo <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein history
> Message-ID: <COL116-W546CCCF2428DB351E10E36BBDA0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Interesting two big NO.
> 
> I thought that Fresson formula is a closely guarded secret of the family and
> is not known in a greater photographic community. Is the definite NO from
> actually knowing the formula or guessing it from old literature?
> 
> Even if the original Fresson formula does not contain any casein I am still
> intrigued by the saw dust development of casein prints as casein likes
> forced development more then gum does. I use a sprayer bottle with good
> results. In reality my casein prints contain some gum (so they are
> technically not pure casein) as I use watercolour pigments, not dry powder
> pigments.
> 
> I just need a break in the rain here to drag my saw and generate some
> sawdust.
> 
> Marek
> 
> 
> > From: mineurdecharbon at skynet.be
> > To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 19:44:30 +0200
> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein history
> > 
> > I confirm no cas?in on the Fresson Carbon formula
> > mineurdecharbon at skynet.be
> > http://www.philippeberger.net/
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Ian Hooper" <noisy at rogers.com>
> > To: <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:25 PM
> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein history
> > 
> > 
> > > On 13/07/2012 1:58 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:
> > >> Also, Marek, you were talking about Fresson maybe containing casein.
> > > There is no casein in the real Fresson formula. None. ;)
> > >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:35:11 -0300
> From: Ian Hooper <noisy at rogers.com>
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein history
> Message-ID: <50071DFF.7070706 at rogers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> 
> I spoke with the Luis Nadeau and got the "no casein" answer.... but he 
> still won't tell me all the secrets. (I'll try feeding him strong liquor 
> next time :)
> 
> As far as I know, Luis has the only Fresson lab outside of the 
> family-operated lab in France..
> 
> -Ian
> 
> On 18/07/2012 3:31 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:
> > Interesting two big NO.
> > 
> > I thought that Fresson formula is a closely guarded secret of the family
> and is not known in a greater photographic community. Is the definite NO
> from actually knowing the formula or guessing it from old literature?
> > 
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:07:58 -0400
> From: Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: casein history
> Message-ID: <60FD5C48-353D-401A-838F-0386DC29C81E at montana.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Marek, Ian, Phillipe, and others,
> 
> I have no "in" with the Fresson family to know if casein is part of the
> composition. I have numerous articles on the composition of Fresson paper,
> but none say they know it for a fact, all say they are guessing it. Thus a
> definitive answer can only be had from electron microscopy.
> 
> I know of two that have done that and nothing about casein has been
> mentioned, supporting Phillipe and Ian. However, in talking with a
> conservator, casein would be a hard substance to spot because of its various
> components.
> 
> Here is the actual answer from the conservator:
> 
> "The identification of casein is not a trivial matter. It is a protein so
> its FTIR signature is very close to both gelatin and albumin. There is a
> chance to use the XRF (the elemental analysis) when looking for phosphorus
> but that is also complicated due a limited sensitivity of the XRF for light
> elements (like P etc.)?.."
> 
> The reason I brought up the initial issue, and Marek responded to it, was
> that casein was proposed in an original patent of carbon tissue in
> combination with gelatin. This was 1870, long before Artigue, Fresson, and
> Leto papers, direct carbon tissues. I could go on and on about this
> historical milieu but suffice it to say that it is a question to pose, or
> outrule, at the very least, and I think a definitive "no" is somewhat
> premature, given the secrecy of the formulas involved.
> 
> My GUESS is a "no" along with Ian and Philippe, but that is not supported by
> evidence YET. The much more intriguing question is how much early carbon
> transfer tissue contained casein and is it a viable option today? Or did
> problems present themselves with casein in its early use that made the
> Autotype company abandon its use after 1870? There are hints at casein's
> problems in the literature, at any rate.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> Christina Z. Anderson
> christinaZanderson.com
> 
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 2:31 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Interesting two big NO.
> > 
> > I thought that Fresson formula is a closely guarded secret of the family
> and is not known in a greater photographic community. Is the definite NO
> from actually knowing the formula or guessing it from old literature?
> > 
> > Even if the original Fresson formula does not contain any casein I am
> still intrigued by the saw dust development of casein prints as casein likes
> forced development more then gum does. I use a sprayer bottle with good
> results. In reality my casein prints contain some gum (so they are
> technically not pure casein) as I use watercolour pigments, not dry powder
> pigments.
> > 
> > I just need a break in the rain here to drag my saw and generate some
> sawdust.
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo