[alt-photo] Re: Collodion POP/ Collodio-Chloride/ Collodion Aristotype Paper - Instructions, Books, Resources?

Francesco Fragomeni fdfragomeni at gmail.com
Wed May 30 18:05:25 GMT 2012


One more question, do you tone your Collodio-Chloride POP prints? If I
tone, I imagine I'd tone in a Gold Chloride/ Sodium Thiocyanate toner as
was common in it's day. Toning is something that I haven't read much about
in specific reference to Collodio-Chloride POP. I've just read that it uses
the same toning procedures as Albumen. I would like as black and neutral of
a tone as I can achieve. Most of the examples of Collodio-Chloride that
I've seen have that characteristic but I'm unsure if it is the raw
process's inherent tonal characteristic or if it is from toning. The Reilly
book references Thiocyanate toners as most common with Collodion-based salt
formulas. As I understand, Gold-Chloride/ Sodium Thiocyanate toners produce
neutral blacks. If that is the key then the Gold-Chloride is going to be
the most expensive component of the whole process.

Let me know your thoughts.


On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Francesco Fragomeni
<fdfragomeni at gmail.com>wrote:

> Clarence,
> Thanks for the response and the information. Ideally, Ron's formula would
> be my first interest as I'm particularly interested in a contact speed
> develop-out process. My current location and resources would likely make
> working with gelatin more difficult then I'd like to deal with, hence my
> interest in trying this formula with collodion as a substitute for the
> gelatin. I may still give it a go to see if collodion can be used as a
> viable substitute. If it don't yield anything then I'll put it out of my
> mind.
> Regarding Collodio-Chloride POP (Aristotype), it would be my ideal backup
> to the contact speed formula. My one question, which I just sent out a
> message about a little while ago, is the use of Strontium-Chloride in
> Collodio-Chloride POP rather then Sodium-Chloride. I'm curious as to why
> this particular chloride is used over Sodium-Chloride which is most common
> in most other common salted paper formulas including Albumen and gelatin.
> All in all, my interests in substitutes is intended to make things easier
> on me but I think in that effort I may just be overcomplicating things.
> I'll probably try a few things but if they quickly prove useless I'll just
> stick to the proven methods.
> -Francesco
> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Clarence Rhymer <crhymer at northwestel.net>wrote:
>> Hello Francesco,
>> Collodion POP is fairly straightforward.  May I offer a few hints:
>> When adding the alcohol to the silver solution in step "D", add the
>> alcohol a bit at a time with stirring.  If one adds the alcohol at one go,
>> the silver nitrate will probably precipitate out.
>> When adding the silver nitrate solution to the salted Collodion, slow
>> addition and thorough mixing will yield a better result.  One can use the
>> syringe method while stirring the Collodion or the addition of small
>> volumes at a time of silver solution with vigorous mixing/shaking after
>> each addition.  Either should result in a suspension of silver chloride in
>> Collodion that will be stable for quite a long time.
>> The final mixture is not particularly sensitive to low level tungsten
>> light, so mixing and pouring do not require a safe light.  A sixty watt
>> tungsten bulb is fine and makes it easier to see what you are doing, as
>> long as there is no fluorescent light or daylight in the room.  However,
>> the suspension should be stored in complete darkness long-term.The coated
>> unexposed paper has good long-term stability in the dark.When rinsing the
>> paper after exposure, it is important to make sure that the wash water is
>> *warm *and has some chloride content, or the rinse will take a very long
>> time indeed.Poorly rinsed paper will not tone properly.  Remember,
>> Collodion was used as a barrier, and is rather resistant to letting water
>> or chemicals through the surface.
>> I find that baryta paper (the type used by Harmon, etc. for silver
>> gelatin paper) is the best support for Collodion POP.  The ink-jet variety
>> of baryta is manufactured to achieve different goals. However, some types
>> may work.Arrowroot sized Strathmore 300 works, as does Yupo (no sizing
>> required).
>> Finally, I can't stress enough how useful a workshop or tutorial with
>> Mark Osterman, France Scully, or Ron Mowrey would be.Not only will you get
>> excellent instruction and hands-on experience in the process at hand, but
>> you will have access to their encyclopaedicknowledge of the history and
>> practice of photographic processes from Niépce to the present, and a
>> framework in which to place the diverse processes historically,
>> scientifically, economically and socially.
>> You will also discover the various ways that processes like wet-plate
>> Collodion were adapted (later to be abandoned) to achieve the goals that
>> were later realized by silver-gelatin.
>> If you can only acquire one book, /Alternative Photographic Processes/ by
>> Christopher James (as others have also recommended) is the book you need.I
>> have both editions, but prefer and recommend the second, although IIRC it
>> doesn't cover Collodion POP - I'd have to look.
>> As to substituting Collodion for gelatin to make an azo type emulsion,
>> remember that the formation, shape, location, etc. etc. etc.  of silver
>> halide crystals in gelatin is a very different animal to the suspension of
>> silver chloride in collodion.  Where to start, what to say next, how to
>> end?  Perhaps read Haist, talk to Ron, better still, save yourself some
>> time and money and take one of the workshops.  Unless I am mistaken, the
>> silver gelatin azo emulsion that Ron makes is contact speed, but not a POP,
>> although of course one can use many contact and even enlarging papers to
>> Print Out rather than Develop Out.  The reverse is not necessarily true.
>> If it is a POP you are looking for, Collodion works very well, uses *very
>> little silver*, and is, dare I say, archival on a good support.  The
>> results are remarkable.
>> Cheers,
>> Clarence Rhymer
>> Fort Smith, NT
>> Canada
>> On 29/05/2012 10:37 AM, Francesco Fragomeni wrote:
>>> H Dan,
>>> Thats actually the same article I posted above. I've talked to Mark about
>>> the workshop and I'd love to make it if time permitted but I'm also
>>> interested in starting straight away rather then waiting. I'm excited to
>>> try this out. I've got a few potential experiments almost ready to start
>>> :)
>>> -Francesco
>>>  ______________________________**_________________
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