[Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper

Sun Dec 15 18:27:44 UTC 2013

Oh, great.  Do let us know what happens.  If it works for you, and I don't see why it shouldn't-- you'll wonder why you ever used a gelatin sizing. :)

Diana

On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Luciano Teghillo wrote:

> 
> Hi Diana,
> 
> After I saw this link (http://www.canson-infinity.com/it/bfk310.asp) I had
> an illumination, and I found a sample pack of Canson paper for inkjet
> printing I had and inside I found two A4 sheets of BFK Rives 310gsm. I will
> give it a try as soon as possible and report back.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Luciano
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Luciano Teghillo
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 7:08 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper
> 
> Hi Diana,
> 
> I will give it a try if I only could find those types of paper here.
> 
> The Fabriano soft-press you use is textured? Also is it Traditional or Extra
> White?
> By looking at the Fabriano site there are so many choices...
> Artistico Traditional White:
> http://www.fabriano.com/p/en/22/artistico_traditional_white
> Artistico Extra White: http://www.fabriano.com/p/en/15/artistico_extra_white
> 
> The BFK Rives heavyweight is this one?
> http://www.canson-infinity.com/it/bfk310.asp
> 
> Thanks for the help,
> Luciano
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
> Diana Bloomfield
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:45 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper
> 
> Hi Luciano,
> 
> This is just my experience, but when I used to size with gelatin, I never
> felt I got things quite right, and once I started printing-- it worked out
> okay-- no staining-- but I could always see a difference where the gelatin
> went on too lightly in places.  I suspect the paper I was using was textured
> enough that the gelatin was never absorbed evenly across the page.  That
> unevenness always showed up in the final print (enough to bother me, though
> maybe others didn't notice it).
> 
> And I'm sure lots of people still size their papers for gum, but there are
> at least two papers out there that I've been using that require no sizing at
> all (and I've made many multiple layers on prints). Other people on the list
> use them as well-- which is where I got the information.  I also don't
> pre-shrink these papers, and have made prints up to 17x17.  Maybe they would
> be fine bigger, too, but I don't currently have the capability of making
> bigger prints.  
> 
> One of the papers is Fabriano soft-press 140 lb; the other is BFK Rives
> heavyweight.  I use both, and only just started using the BFK this past
> year.  They're terrific.  And as long as they keep making these papers the
> way they're made now, I would never go back to gelatin sizing (or any
> sizing) for gum printing.
> 
> So when I read your description here, it just sounds so time-consuming and
> tiresome and primitive-- when you really don't need to do it all.  Why not
> try one of these papers, and don't bother with sizing?  
> 
> Diana
> 
> 
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Luciano Teghillo wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have been looming in the back an enjoyed the wealth of information 
>> all of you share. Of course I have not shared nothing because...well, 
>> I am just getting my feet (actually my paper) wet, as you will see.
>> 
>> I have a question on brushing gelatin on paper. I have prepared the 
>> usual mix of 30% gelatin and kept it at about 45-50 C and brushed it 
>> with a foam brush on the print side of my Fabriano Rosaspina paper.
>> I brushed on two coats, after letting the first one dry for a day. 
>> This morning I was getting ready to harden the paper in formalin but I 
>> had the bad idea of comparing my sheets of paper with a couple of 
>> scraps of papers I have from two previous workshops.
>> 
>> The papers I was using as a comparison where noticeably more yellow 
>> (both Fabriano Artistico, Traditional White) when looked on a light 
>> table, so my doubt is that my paper did not receive enough gelatin. Of 
>> course I cannot be sure because the samples I used for comparison have 
>> been tray sized and not brush sized. Also, for least one, the gelatin 
>> used is similar to Knox (Paneangeli for the Italians), while I used 
>> Photographers' Formulary Hard Gelatin (250 Bloom).
>> 
>> Also when I compare my sized paper against a sheet of the same unsized 
>> paper, I cannot see any discernable difference, even under an 8x loupe.
>> 
>> When brushing I load the foam brush, and move horizontally, vertically 
>> and diagonally with speed (not quite the same as when you coat with 
>> pigment, but almost), and make sure the brushing is uniform by looking 
>> at the surface from an angle.
>> 
>> Maybe I brush to fast and "pull" the gelatin too much that it does not 
>> get into the paper?
>> 
>> Since I have already wasted and entire set of Fabriano Artistico that 
>> I presume I sized incorrectly, I want to make sure this time I do it 
>> correctly.
>> 
>> Maybe is something totally unrelated to sizing. Maybe I should harden 
>> the gelatin before making a comparison.
>> 
>> I  tried to scan the paper samples (mine and those used as a
>> comparison) it's useless. You can only see the paper ridges and 
>> valleys, but nothing else.
>> 
>> I have posted however two images on a previous test I did. The only 
>> thing different between the two tests is the paper. Everything else is 
>> the same, done on the same day, developed for the same time, etc.
>> 
>> - http://www.lucianoteghillo.com/images/test01.jpg - This paper was 
>> sized by someone else.
>> - http://www.lucianoteghillo.com/images/test02.jpg - This is the paper 
>> I sized on a previous batch.
>> 
>> Feeling frustrated....
>> 
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Luciano
>> 
>> 
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